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World Cup of 1v1 - Discussion
- Thread starter DEG
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Y'all are underrating LGPE 1v1
I'll second this, LC is really fun and diverse, albeit a little unbalanced. I don't know if we need it in another tour when LC cup is still going on.
2v2 has seen the most development out of every metagame to appear in an official 1v1 tour, even more than USUM. Nowhere is it said that 1v1wc had to only have Old Gens and no OMs, so your reasoning behind its removal makes low to no sense. While it might still lack in resources, such as a good VR and Sample Teams, main cores and many good synergies have come out recently, thanks to the plethora of new players who have picked up 2v2 thanks to 1v1pl. The fact that you removed it from WCs only serves to halt the evolution process of the metagame in itself.
USUM Bo7 is something I would endorse greatly, as it allows for better, more exciting and more fair sets, especially in a very luck and matchup driven metagame. It also gives room for team experimentation and preparation, without being severely punished. Overall having more games makes the match more fair, and endorses team preparation.
DPP and BW are fine, keep them, they're fun, already decently evolved and give a chance to player outside of the 1v1 community that are good at old gens and wanna partake in the tour.
The second ORAS slot is kind of a weird choice. While the amount of players who are good at ORAS because they played 1v1 during gen6 is high, the request for more metagame slots is high and the end of USUM is near. I'm thinking ORAS' second slot can stay for now but probably be dropped during the next team tour, once SwSh is out.
4 slots for USUM 1v1 is cool, gives many chances to new players who only had the ability to play on the ladder. But
Maybe one of them could be dropped, as the need to include metagames such as UU1v1, AG1v1, LC1v1, STABmons 1v1 and other OMs arises. Especially with metagames such as LC1v1 currently developing further by having their own separate tours. It might be too early to include any of them, but imho at least one of them should be included. Either having UU1v1 or LC1v1, which have had the chance to be experimented with, would allow for a higher amount of players from other metagames to join in the tour, and it will give players the push to expand these metagames forward.
also dont you dare add ADV, GSC or RBY, they are boring as hell (in 6v6 too, but especially in 1v1) and completely undeveloped. It would seem way to forced and would restrain metagames like 2v2 and LC1v1 from finding their place to develop. An oversaturation of different OMs and Old Gens is never well liked.
regarding the region thing: the EU thing is super stupid.
Either add Austria, Czech Republic, Slovakia, Romania, Moldova, Ukraine (and maybe France) to ""Coastal"" and change its name to Central (since its name currently has no sense whatsoever, it's just slapped on there without motivation), or just add Germany and Poland to North.
My idea would be: UK, Ireland, France, Spain, Italy, Switzerland, Belgium and Netharlands for West - everything else for East.
USUM Bo7 is something I would endorse greatly, as it allows for better, more exciting and more fair sets, especially in a very luck and matchup driven metagame. It also gives room for team experimentation and preparation, without being severely punished. Overall having more games makes the match more fair, and endorses team preparation.
DPP and BW are fine, keep them, they're fun, already decently evolved and give a chance to player outside of the 1v1 community that are good at old gens and wanna partake in the tour.
The second ORAS slot is kind of a weird choice. While the amount of players who are good at ORAS because they played 1v1 during gen6 is high, the request for more metagame slots is high and the end of USUM is near. I'm thinking ORAS' second slot can stay for now but probably be dropped during the next team tour, once SwSh is out.
4 slots for USUM 1v1 is cool, gives many chances to new players who only had the ability to play on the ladder. But
Maybe one of them could be dropped, as the need to include metagames such as UU1v1, AG1v1, LC1v1, STABmons 1v1 and other OMs arises. Especially with metagames such as LC1v1 currently developing further by having their own separate tours. It might be too early to include any of them, but imho at least one of them should be included. Either having UU1v1 or LC1v1, which have had the chance to be experimented with, would allow for a higher amount of players from other metagames to join in the tour, and it will give players the push to expand these metagames forward.
also dont you dare add ADV, GSC or RBY, they are boring as hell (in 6v6 too, but especially in 1v1) and completely undeveloped. It would seem way to forced and would restrain metagames like 2v2 and LC1v1 from finding their place to develop. An oversaturation of different OMs and Old Gens is never well liked.
regarding the region thing: the EU thing is super stupid.
Either add Austria, Czech Republic, Slovakia, Romania, Moldova, Ukraine (and maybe France) to ""Coastal"" and change its name to Central (since its name currently has no sense whatsoever, it's just slapped on there without motivation), or just add Germany and Poland to North.
My idea would be: UK, Ireland, France, Spain, Italy, Switzerland, Belgium and Netharlands for West - everything else for East.
But I think the removal of 2v2 is good cuz 2v2 isn’t 1v1 amirite ez
t fou poto
During the 1v1 PL, there are many dpp players, more than 1 per team. And oldgens is better than OM in world cup I think
1 USUM bo7, 2 USUM bo5, 2 Oras, 2 BW, 1 app
Pools, only teams who move on would get to choose slots per week
It can’t because DPP OU / DPP Ubers / whatever you’re using to simulate it doesn’t have team preview unlike playing BW Ubers and bringing 3 and forfeiting after you lose a Pokemon. I don’t think that DPP is the most developed metagame, and in PL it was hard to know what to expect and what was even good because of that. Giving it another tour could give it more of an opportunity to develop but at the same time it doesn’t offer the quality of games that the other formats do.
I agree that a second ORAS slot is shaky for a tournament like this. It may have worked decently in PL, but the number of people who can competently play and build ORAS isn’t too high especially in smaller regions. By making it only one slot, you enable the highest level of competition in the format as well as making room for 2v2 / ADV without affecting the other formats in the tour.
Whether DPP or a second ORAS slot is removed or not, I think that 4 SM slots is fine. One can be made Bo7 or it can just stay as 4 Bo5, but current generation tour representation in a team tour like this where more people have opportunities to play in such a growing community is really important. If over half of the team is forced to play underdeveloped old gens, it makes it difficult for new players to get a chance to play the meta that’s the main focus especially as the generation is ending. It also allows more teams to field stronger lineups and lead to more competition as opposed to forcing people into metagames they’ve never played before.
As for regions, I think the split of last year was fine. North Europe didn’t perform amazingly last year, but I don’t think it would create much balance by combining it with South and cutting down Coastal. The team wasn’t inherently flawed last year, and since then, North has gained a lot of potential new players as well as returning players who have gained a year of experience and improvement. By merging the teams, it will be a lot less balanced considering this, and it will also create 4 US teams. I don’t think that this will improve the tournament at all, as it’s dividing regions that, for the most part, didn’t perform as well last year into even smaller sections. This will disadvantage those teams a lot while offering less balance to Europe.
SolarflareRo
Banned deucer.
It can be played in the bw2 singles section when u challange someone and there was someone else that told lost heroes before me that u can play bw 1v1 on the main server and i checked to see and it is true
edit: i told him that u can play bw on the main server not dpp
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Note that this is my opinion, final decision will be taken by me, quote and osra.
Update; I think keeping last year's US last year is the way to go. The only thing bugging me Europe split. I agree with renaming Coastal to Central and adding more teams in it. But I think we might scrap that since I've received info that not only we have enough for germany+netherlands but for France+Italy too so we have both of these then add rest of Europe in another team.
No, we're not adding any 1v1 OM especially not AG nor Monotype if these were serious suggestions. About ORAS 2nd Slot, it wasn't competitive last PL unlike past WC for the simple reason that most/all ORAS builders/players were only on 3 teams and the other teams didn't draft any ORAS which really hit the competitive side. I'm unsure about removing DPP and if I wanted to add something I'd definitely remove an USUM but that is also iffy.
DPP has been with us ever since Classic, it has been in PL too so players know what they're doing and it has a playerbase, it will probably be removed for next PL but will always stay in both Classic and WC in future tournaments so I'm not with removing it. USUM is the current gen and I would like to see more faces being drafted and acknowledged by the community instead of old gen people that already have a name for themselves.
I would like to add that I'm totally against 2v2 Doubles being added. It's not really the resources, but the games, it was given 2 chances and both were average at best imo, ORAS was good last WC meanwhile DPP is advancing same rate as 2v2 but the plot twist here is that DPP is actually a 1v1 metagame unlike 2v2. For me 2v2 doubles is the annoying little brother that you're forced to take everywhere you want to go and that's a bad thing. I've already balanced this whole tournament schedule to have a lot of diversity and I'm keen on changing next year's PL formats to fit the description more. What I'm looking at is Current generation being in all tournaments bar Classic. PL being an OM+Old gens tours, WC Strictly a generations tour and classic only old generations. Yes, the spotlight has always been on generations as this is the real game we play and not some twist. So with that being said, I'm all with keeping 2v2 for PL and adding more OMs to PL instead of DPP/BW whatever but I'd keep all these old gens format in WC. There's also really no reason to add 2v2 in a 1v1 tournament at all, it's called 2v2 and not 1v1 for a reason. I'm all with reworking old gens representation and we will have to revamp everything next generation with 8 coming so all slots will change but for now I'd like to keep this as the main format.
Update; I think keeping last year's US last year is the way to go. The only thing bugging me Europe split. I agree with renaming Coastal to Central and adding more teams in it. But I think we might scrap that since I've received info that not only we have enough for germany+netherlands but for France+Italy too so we have both of these then add rest of Europe in another team.
No, we're not adding any 1v1 OM especially not AG nor Monotype if these were serious suggestions. About ORAS 2nd Slot, it wasn't competitive last PL unlike past WC for the simple reason that most/all ORAS builders/players were only on 3 teams and the other teams didn't draft any ORAS which really hit the competitive side. I'm unsure about removing DPP and if I wanted to add something I'd definitely remove an USUM but that is also iffy.
DPP has been with us ever since Classic, it has been in PL too so players know what they're doing and it has a playerbase, it will probably be removed for next PL but will always stay in both Classic and WC in future tournaments so I'm not with removing it. USUM is the current gen and I would like to see more faces being drafted and acknowledged by the community instead of old gen people that already have a name for themselves.
I would like to add that I'm totally against 2v2 Doubles being added. It's not really the resources, but the games, it was given 2 chances and both were average at best imo, ORAS was good last WC meanwhile DPP is advancing same rate as 2v2 but the plot twist here is that DPP is actually a 1v1 metagame unlike 2v2. For me 2v2 doubles is the annoying little brother that you're forced to take everywhere you want to go and that's a bad thing. I've already balanced this whole tournament schedule to have a lot of diversity and I'm keen on changing next year's PL formats to fit the description more. What I'm looking at is Current generation being in all tournaments bar Classic. PL being an OM+Old gens tours, WC Strictly a generations tour and classic only old generations. Yes, the spotlight has always been on generations as this is the real game we play and not some twist. So with that being said, I'm all with keeping 2v2 for PL and adding more OMs to PL instead of DPP/BW whatever but I'd keep all these old gens format in WC. There's also really no reason to add 2v2 in a 1v1 tournament at all, it's called 2v2 and not 1v1 for a reason. I'm all with reworking old gens representation and we will have to revamp everything next generation with 8 coming so all slots will change but for now I'd like to keep this as the main format.
I think this is a really bad reason. 2v2, while not a literal 1v1, clearly has many of the same strategies used in 1v1, and the format itself is obviously similar. 1v1 is defined by no switching and you lose when it dies. 2v2 is the same. Furthermore, a lot of the best 2v2 players are also excellent 1v1 players, and I think that the formats are similar enough to deserve being in wcup.
The Official Glyx
Banned deucer.
My personal take is that we should be building these tours towards what they'll be like in Gen 8; with Gen 7 1v1 taking the place of ORAS as the 2 slotter. This means that not only will we have 3-4 SS slots in gen 8 team tours, but 2 USUM slots, 1-2 ORAS slots, maybe 1 BW slot, and X slot of whatever else.
What I personally feel is best is that we focus in on the 3 most recent gens for all team tours, and have OMs be the secondary focus for one team tour (PL), and Older Gens be the secondary focus for the other (WC). The only other alternative I can think of would be to add more slots to fit all the OMs and Old Gens in, but I don't think that'd really be viable unless we experience even more exponential growth in playerbase than we have now.
With this in mind, I think it's best we make PL the focus for OMs and WC the focus for Old Gens, so that way the two tournaments can have their own separate identity, and more importantly, it won't be up for debate with each coming tournament whether or not so and so metagame will make it in over another metagame.
What I personally feel is best is that we focus in on the 3 most recent gens for all team tours, and have OMs be the secondary focus for one team tour (PL), and Older Gens be the secondary focus for the other (WC). The only other alternative I can think of would be to add more slots to fit all the OMs and Old Gens in, but I don't think that'd really be viable unless we experience even more exponential growth in playerbase than we have now.
SS 1v1 Bo7/5
SS 1v1 Bo5
SS 1v1 Bo5
SS 1v1 Bo5 / USUM 1v1 Bo5
USUM 1v1 Bo5
ORAS 1v1 Bo5
ORAS 1v1 Bo5 / 2v2 Bo5 / UU 1v1 Bo5 / some other OM
2v2 Bo5 / UU 1v1 Bo5 / some other OM
SS 1v1 Bo5
SS 1v1 Bo5
SS 1v1 Bo5 / USUM 1v1 Bo5
USUM 1v1 Bo5
ORAS 1v1 Bo5
ORAS 1v1 Bo5 / 2v2 Bo5 / UU 1v1 Bo5 / some other OM
2v2 Bo5 / UU 1v1 Bo5 / some other OM
SS 1v1 Bo7/5
SS 1v1 Bo5
SS 1v1 Bo5
SS 1v1 Bo5 / USUM 1v1 Bo5
USUM 1v1 Bo5
ORAS 1v1 Bo5
ORAS 1v1 Bo5 / BW 1v1 Bo5
BW 1v1 Bo5 / DPP 1v1 Bo5
SS 1v1 Bo5
SS 1v1 Bo5
SS 1v1 Bo5 / USUM 1v1 Bo5
USUM 1v1 Bo5
ORAS 1v1 Bo5
ORAS 1v1 Bo5 / BW 1v1 Bo5
BW 1v1 Bo5 / DPP 1v1 Bo5
With this in mind, I think it's best we make PL the focus for OMs and WC the focus for Old Gens, so that way the two tournaments can have their own separate identity, and more importantly, it won't be up for debate with each coming tournament whether or not so and so metagame will make it in over another metagame.
I don’t mind that you guys aren’t giving 2v2 a second thought but the way that you’re saying that team tours need to have different focuses and/or ‘identities’ is absurd. First off team tours don’t need an identity. I’m not going to look back and remember PL as the OM team tour, because that literally wasnt what the tour was about. The variation of the tours is solely based on team composition. Furthermore, the only literal difference between PL and WC lineups rn is that PL had 2v2, and WC has one more SM slot over it. PL had 4 old gen slots, the same as the current WC lineup. If you’re saying that simply by the removal of 2v2, that makes WC an ‘old gens tour’ or whatever is ridiculous. Find a better excuse to ignore 2v2 (or yknow add adv ;p)
The Official Glyx
Banned deucer.
As I said in the entire rest of my post besides the last paragraph, we need to be building the tours towards how they're most optimally carried out in Gen 8, since it is just outright unfeasible to include every single OM or Old Gen into a single tour.
Look at the official World Cup slots:
Now look at the Smogon Premier League slots:
World Cup is focused solely on OU and its older gens, much like how we're trying to handle our own World Cup
While SPL has a focus on OU, but also other tiers like UU/RU/NU/Doubles, much like how we're trying to handle our own PL
While the main takeaway for just about anything involving Pokemon is "the time you spent with friends along the way", or something like that, that doesn't mean that there should not be structure and consistency to how we do things.
2v2 is not being ignored, only designated non-standard-1v1 status alongside UU 1v1, AG 1v1, LC 1v1, etc, which all have their chances to shine in PL.
While I agree with everything you said, there is literally no reason to have more than one ORAS slot once gen8 comes out. The second ORAS slot has always been uncompetitive and hard to fill, and has only been there because of the fact that it was the last gen before the current one. I'd much rather have 2 guaranteed SM slots over a second ORAS slot (besides, the similarities between the two gens are way too many, you could basically consider it SM without Z moves)
dpp reasoning doesn't count because the same can be said for bw and 2v2
2v2 doesn't have an active player base that's excited about 2v2, it has an inactive tier leader and a portion of a council that actually wants to develop it. Since last world cup it's been asked to be removed for tours and I'm happy to see it leave wcop personally
I don't have an opinion about ag 1v1 bcz I've never played it myself
When the slots were semi announced, I wanted UU over DPP as 1v1UU had already been seen in past tournaments, however it doesn't even have a info post that I could find even after asking people in the discord and the room sooo...there's that
Personally, I'm fine with the slots as is and I've voiced my opinion about the europe split (france + italy, netherlands + germany, rest of europe) in the discord and I think that it's the best choice moving forward until another region is needed to be split which would allow for another us split.
The Official Glyx
Banned deucer.
outdated but still exists- https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/1v1-oms.3648454/#post-8073865
Disregarding the fact that its outdated, there's literally nobody in charge of it let alone a council or smth that isn't uop who is busy a lot
I think there should be an entirely separate official 1v1 tour designated to playing 1v1 oms such as 2v2, UU, LC, ext. This would definitely create more chances for the players who like these tiers to play them and introduce new players to the tiers. This would also help the constant calling every LT or WC for a certain OM to be added. A tour that had either a different OM each week or each player picked a tier they would like to play and a third other tier was designated each round sounds very fun and different and might actually get me back into 1v1. I know this may be a reach to create but it may solve many of the problems 1v1 oms have.
The Official Glyx
Banned deucer.
Nothing is preventing people from asking Quote to host unofficial tours of their own. It's not like the two team tours we have each year are the only moments 1v1 OMs are allowed to shine, it's just that nobody (staff and community alike) is putting forth the effort to act upon their desires.
Who, if anyone, is in charge of monotype 1v1?
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