Metagame XY Doubles OU (VR Post #2, Samples Post #3)

[zee]

XY DOU teams, replays, and usage stats from ORASPL

Week 1

Memoric vs Frania
vs

zeefable vs JRL
vs

Mishimono vs qsns
(deadgamed)

Week 2

zeefable vs Frania
vs

qsns vs emma
vs

Mishimono vs Memoric
vs

Week 3

zeefable vs Arcticblast
vs

Mishimono vs JRL
vs

qsns vs Frania
vs

Week 4

zeefable vs Mishimono
vs

qsns vs Arcticblast
vs

Frania vs JRL
vs

Week 5

zeefable vs qsns
vs

Frania vs Mishimono
vs

JRL vs Arcticblast
vs

Semifinals

Memoric vs Frania
vs

Finals

Mishimono vs Frania
vs

Usage Stats

XY DOU

+ ---- + ------------------ + ---- + ------- + ------- +
| Rank | Pokemon            | Use  | Usage % |  Win %  |
+ ---- + ------------------ + ---- + ------- + ------- +
| 1    | Landorus-Therian   |   23 |  71.88% |  52.17% |
| 2    | Deoxys-Attack      |   14 |  43.75% |  64.29% |
| 3    | Bisharp            |   13 |  40.62% |  61.54% |
| 3    | Volcanion          |   13 |  40.62% |  46.15% |
| 5    | Kangaskhan         |   11 |  34.38% |  45.45% |
| 6    | Amoonguss          |    9 |  28.12% |  33.33% |
| 7    | Talonflame         |    8 |  25.00% |  50.00% |
| 8    | Diancie            |    7 |  21.88% |  42.86% |
| 9    | Gengar             |    6 |  18.75% |  50.00% |
| 9    | Thundurus          |    6 |  18.75% |  50.00% |
| 11   | Manectric          |    5 |  15.62% |  60.00% |
| 11   | Gastrodon          |    5 |  15.62% |  40.00% |
| 11   | Heatran            |    5 |  15.62% |  40.00% |
| 11   | Kyurem-Black       |    5 |  15.62% |  20.00% |
| 15   | Keldeo             |    4 |  12.50% |  75.00% |
| 15   | Charizard          |    4 |  12.50% |  75.00% |
| 15   | Ferrothorn         |    4 |  12.50% |  75.00% |
| 15   | Sylveon            |    4 |  12.50% |  50.00% |
| 15   | Tyranitar          |    4 |  12.50% |  25.00% |
| 20   | Shaymin-Sky        |    3 |   9.38% | 100.00% |
| 20   | Porygon2           |    3 |   9.38% |  66.67% |
| 20   | Hydreigon          |    3 |   9.38% |   0.00% |
| 23   | Terrakion          |    2 |   6.25% | 100.00% |
| 23   | Excadrill          |    2 |   6.25% |  50.00% |
| 23   | Rotom-Wash         |    2 |   6.25% |  50.00% |
| 23   | Genesect           |    2 |   6.25% |  50.00% |
| 23   | Hoopa-Unbound      |    2 |   6.25% |  50.00% |
| 23   | Conkeldurr         |    2 |   6.25% |  50.00% |
| 23   | Aegislash          |    2 |   6.25% |  50.00% |
| 23   | Togekiss           |    2 |   6.25% |   0.00% |
| 23   | Azumarill          |    2 |   6.25% |   0.00% |
| 32   | Lucario            |    1 |   3.12% | 100.00% |
| 32   | Raichu             |    1 |   3.12% | 100.00% |
| 32   | Deoxys-Speed       |    1 |   3.12% | 100.00% |
| 32   | Politoed           |    1 |   3.12% | 100.00% |
| 32   | Kingdra            |    1 |   3.12% | 100.00% |
| 32   | Swampert           |    1 |   3.12% | 100.00% |
| 32   | Ludicolo           |    1 |   3.12% | 100.00% |
| 32   | Gardevoir          |    1 |   3.12% |   0.00% |
| 32   | Abomasnow          |    1 |   3.12% |   0.00% |
| 32   | Gyarados           |    1 |   3.12% |   0.00% |
| 32   | Sableye            |    1 |   3.12% |   0.00% |
| 32   | Gliscor            |    1 |   3.12% |   0.00% |
| 32   | Jellicent          |    1 |   3.12% |   0.00% |
| 32   | Arcanine           |    1 |   3.12% |   0.00% |
| 32   | Gothitelle         |    1 |   3.12% |   0.00% |

 

[Idyll]

[THREAD UPDATES]

[VIABILITY RANKINGS]

The XY DOU VR has been updated once again! We voted on every nomination posted on this thread from post #6 onwards. Also, we now have zeefable as part of the Unofficial XY DOU Council, and she is part of the voter pool for this recent slate! We thank MajorBowman for his time in being part of this project.

The voters for this slate are myself, Mishimono, qsns, SMB, and zeefable.

Falls:

Talonflame: 2 -> 3
Aegislash: 3 -> 4
Hoopa-U: 3 -> 4
Kingdra: 3 -> 4
:Ludicolo: 3 -> 4
Scrafty: 3 -> 4

Rises:

Bisharp: 4 -> 3

Voting Sheet

To see the new updated VR with these changes in effect, please see the second post on this thread!

That should be it! New metagame shifts may happen while ORASPL is happening, so stay tuned! If not, expect this thread to updated just after the upcoming DPL!

 

[zee]

following the conversation between KyleCole and qsns that I tuned in to last night (and that you can watch on Kyle's YouTube page), I wanted to chime in and give a lot of thoughts on XY.

I'm going to start with my personal VR, giving commentary on stuff that I think stands out. One thing to note is that I will be ordering my VR.

My Personal Viability Rankings

>>Tier 1<<

Landorus-T

Mega Gengar

Volcanion

Commentary:
I'm not exactly sure that this is controversial or anything, and I don't intend for it to be. Landorus is good and everyone knows it. Rocks go such a long way in a metagame where the ratio of bulk to power is relatively equal, if not in bulk's favor, and it just does So Much. Intimidate is especially helpful for your fatter walls for preservation, powerful and relatively fast Earthquake make it a great cleaner, and it has the bulk and versatility to make a variety of sets work from Rocks Rocky Helmet to Assault Vest to the more offensive brands of Scarf or Life Orb.

I think that Mega Gengar's definitely on a bit of a decline but I'm not ready to drop it out of Tier 1 yet. The meta is currently in an aggressive state that will come to pass, and I don't even think Gengar is horrible as is. As the Podcast Bros mentioned, Offensive Trick Room is my personal favorite set right now because it gives you lots of control and ability to support teammates while still being offensively inclined. Taunt is great for Amoonguss weak teams I will add, but I wouldn't use Substitute or Will-O-Wisp Gengar in today's climate. Frania also almost caught me off guard with HP Ice Gengar in ORASPL and it's something that's in my builder as well, though I do miss a lot of the bulk that other Gengar sets can afford.

Volcanion is just a beast. It hits the field and gets to clicking, and it's so fat that even double ups of non SE hits are unlikely to deal it a finishing blow. Hits like a truck and has an excellent speed tier for working well with TR, Para-spreading teams, or just its natural pace. Goggles is the convention and I will stand by it, because any XY team without 2 Spore switchins is bad; however, Assault Vest was mentioned on last night's show and I gotta agree that the extra bulk is great when it comes to standing up to Thundurus and Gengar, and the added benefit of "affording" a 4th move like Overheat or HP Grass is really nice!

>>Tier 2<<

- the meta overprepares for it and it still manages to make significant impacts in almost every game it touches, god shroomer.
Amoonguss

- Kangaskhan's my personal favorite mega currently, it's fast paced without being frail and is great for getting a lot of damage spread across the board for spread attackers like Sylveon and Landot. Watch for Rocky Helmet and remember to set Kangaskhan-Mega to Scrappy in the teambuilder.
Mega Kangaskhan

- Strong Ice coverage at a speed faster than 91 is just way to good. The big ball of stats is also solid into Volcanion and outspeeds and OHKOs Bisharp, though I wouldn't recommend switching it in of course. Scarf is a great set too for hard and fast damage. Good mon.
Kyurem-B

- A bit worse in practice than on paper but every XY team should be prepared for this or it's bad. Thunder Wave can really cripple aggressive builds without the bulk to survive Not Going First, and it just hits hard on top of that. I don't like Defiant as much as most people but it does work.
Thundurus-I

- I like just voted this thing to 3 but honestly I think 2 would be fitting for it as well. With its HO friends or just by itself, Bisharp crushes fat builds thanks to the tier's general lack of Dark resists and the omnipotence of Knock Off, Defiant, and Priority. Almost all good Bisharp builds are pretty well supported too, with ample amounts of redirection and Fake Out or all partners packing just as much of a punch as it is.
Bisharp

- Sub CM is a demon that can legit 1vX whenever it feels like. Hard to kill easily and good matchups with a lot of the middle of this list on paper, even better in practice once things are chipped.
Sylveon

- I was the only person that voted for this not to drop from Tier 2 I think. I like that CB is a great anti HO mon, but I also think that it itself is solid on offense, and that the rise of HO could likely see Tailwind make a legitimate appearance. Also haven't tried it but [redacted]bird sounds very funny and I'd love to make it work with Gengar/Manectric some time.
Talonflame

>>Tier 3<<

- no one runs rock resists so sometimes the thing just wins on its own. Can't be intimidated, sets Trick Room, stuff dies.
Diancie

- the offense uptick and increase in fighting moves surely isn't kind to Tyranitar. Don't think it sucks or anything, 3 attacks rocks is a great set, naturally good into Gengar and Charizard, but not so much their friends. Just an awkward time to be a Tyranitar, but still not bad.
Tyranitar

- Charizard just melts stuff. Pair it with Deoxys-A and Bisharp to form an offensive core so aggressive and powerful that fat has no choice but to crumble before it. Things DIE to Overheat. Like, Omega Die. Heat Wave creates pins with the strong single target attacking partners. Good mon.
Mega Charizard Y

- Intimidate, "positive" Gengar matchup, relatively bulky and reliable pivot. A real honest Pokemon so don't have much else to say.
Mega Manectric

- possibly the most drastic change and I don't think I'll get any nods of approval on it, but god Gastrodon is so GOOD. Rock resist that threatens all of the Tier 1s with the exception of HP Grass Volcanion, Toxic + Recover makes it a win condition that has to be respected, slower than a large number of Trick Room attackers, the list goes on. I love Gastrodon.
Gastrodon

- rain but you don't get hit by Thunder Wave.
Mega Swampert

- sets rain
Politoed

- I swear this thing is fucking bonkers if you can 1) support it with toxic 2) not lose your eviolite 3) not lose to Amoong. It just doesn't die, hits really hard at +1, great Trick Roomer for semi TR teams, but is susceptible to getting overwhelmed if not careful.
Porygon2

- I'd imagine a lot of people just don't know where to put this right now. With the resurgence of Charizard there have been thoughts that it can mount a comeback over Volcanion, but the only time the duo was seen together so far in ORASPL it took a loss so quickly that it didn't really get to demonstrate the strengths of Fire Spam properly. I think this is a fair spot for it until better strategies emerge.
Heatran

>>Tier 4<<

- Hyper Offense incarnate. Deoxys lives on a knife's edge always, but finding the perfect partners to pair it with ensures it does more than just trades, and that's what makes it so dangerous really - if Deoxys accomplishes more than just trading it's likely too late for you, because that means both it and its partner are likely still kicking and ready for another round of OHKOs. I still can't rate it higher than 4 as much as I want to, it does suffer from some 4MSS on the third attack, priority will send it to the shadow realm, and any speed control invalidates it outside of extremespeed, which isn't really getting KOs on its own.
Deoxys-A

- I think keld is cool!! It's a pretty sizeable liability into anything with a Thund, but I respect it for the great speed tier and solid 1 on 1 matchups vs so much of this list. A big part of its viability comes from the geniekillers brand admittedly, which has its own set of problems, so no higher than high tier 4.
Keldeo

- It's a rock resist, quite a difficult one to remove at that. Leech + Lefties gives it pretty reliable recovery. Great endgame mon in a tier where removing Fire coverage really isn't that hard. Also CB is the truth.
Ferrothorn

- big damage. breaks protect. sets trick room.
Hoopa-U

- BW Jellicent stuff but now there are more Ghost and Dark types so it gets knocked down a lot. I still account for this in the builder because it has scary end game potential.
Jellicent

- people say I'm crazy for this but after it knocked me out of XY Cup I learned to respect it. Hits hard and has the all in one speed control package, physical bulk being equivalent to that of some cup noodles doesn't mean too much when it's near universally paired with redirection and Intimidate
Mega Gardevoir

- Choice Band just hits really hard, a powerful U-turn is a great tool to have to reposition your board. Really like it on those stax teams qsns used in DPL.
Genesect

- rock resist with decent damage output, you can do some cool things with like SubToxic that I think farm fat. Shadow Sneak is great for the rising popularity of Deoxys-A.
Aegislash

- just voted on this, rain is pretty poor in the current meta, and even on rain I rate the Pokemon that can't get Prankster Thunder Wave'd much higher
Kingdra

- see above
Ludicolo

- dropping this a rank because it's just very unimpressive. If I want a dark in this meta I know who I'm calling up, and there are far better options for threatening something like Kyurem-B. Good Gengar/Volcanion MU is enough to keep it ranked.
Hydreigon

- helps check the most dangerous on paper mon in the tier, fast fake out, good utility moves, but lacks any real offensive pressure which is a big opportunity cost to HOs
Raichu

- can auto win if your opponent leaves spread moves at home, really threatening, read up about my XY cup team. Very difficult to pull off effectively though
Azumarill

- always been a bit of a do nothing mon in my eyes but pairs well with Trick Room teams which might have a pretty legit niche atm due to Zard/Deo/Sharp HO
Scrafty

- has a real annoying toolkit that can be taken advantage of on slower teams if 1) you don't want to add Jellicent for the worse Bisharp MU 2) you want Tailwind, though in the meta atm I don't think this is a super important point
Suicune

UR everything ranked but not here

 

[KyleCole]

Esteemed XY guru qsns and myself spoke at length about the deep intricacies of ORAS Doubls OU in a hot video. Probably should have done this before the VR noms were locked but live and learn :D

 

[qsns]

I didn't do super hot this DPL so I'm sharing the two main sets I came up with that I liked a lot. Both of these were inspired by "building" SM for Croven and realizing that these ideas transfer incredibly well.

Landorus-Therian (M) @ Sitrus Berry / Rocky Helmet
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 HP / 248 SpD / 8 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- U-turn
- Stone Edge

Very similar to SM, a specially defensive spread such as this should be the new standard for Landorus-T if it's Stealth Rocking and physical. I don't think attack investment actually does anything considering the opponent has a landorus as well. SpDef investment allows you to take next to nothing from Gengar, Volcanion Heat Waves, avoid the 2HKO from HP Ice Thund with Sitrus, and laugh at opposing HP Ice Landorus-T. This Pokemon's job is to click Rocks and U-Turn out and its spread should reflect that. Jolly allows you to outspeed Adamant Bisharp but you can drop the speed for more SpDef if you aren't terrified of Bisharp like I am.

252 SpA Gengar-Mega Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 248 SpD Landorus-Therian: 147-174 (38.4 - 45.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
76 SpA Thundurus Hidden Power Ice vs. 252 HP / 248 SpD Landorus-Therian: 204-244 (53.4 - 63.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Landorus (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 30 Def
- Earth Power
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Substitute
- Protect

Intimidate doesn't actually do anything in this tier. Kangas are SToss, lots of Landorus-T are defensive or special, and Bisharp/Diancie either do not care or benefit from it. I think we should stop viewing Lando-T as absolutely mandatory and explore either structures without it or ones that use Lando-I. This mon is obscenely threatening vs. fatter structures - Ground Ice is phenomenal coverage and Substitute allows you to block Amoonguss and do normal Sub things. Unfortunately in my game, Stax had Icy Wind Gengar and a pretty fast-paced team, so I didn't get to showcase it much, but it shredded through the normal Kangaskhan and Gengar structures in testing. Pack good answers to Thund and some extra anti-HO measures and this will absolutely murder teams.


VR Noms:

-> Tier 1 OR

-> Tier 2

I think these two are about at the same place. Kangaskhan benefits a ton from the rise of more offensive structures and the playerbase has learned to adapt around Gengar. I personally see Volcanion (with the rise of AV), Landorus-T, and Thund as the top 3 Pokemon with the megas trailing behind, and would like to see these two ranked together. I don't have a strong preference for which one goes through.

-> Tier 1

Tier 2 Thund was correct for the last metagame thanks to the dominance of bulky garbage that can stomach and punish TWaves, but the metagame has progressed past that, and Thund is rearing its ugly head again. It has a pretty close to 50% usage this tournament and is an excellent stopgap to offensive teams, as well as getting super necessary chip on Landorus-T as it clicks Rocks. Thund does Thund things.

-> Tier 3

yeah

-> Tier 3/4

Credits to Memoric for this one. Scarf Terrak is an absolute monster and exploits the same tier-wide Rock-type weakness that Diancie does. This has a positive-ish matchup into Bisharp and Deoxys-Attack, shuts down Gengar, and is a Scarfer that can deal with Thund. It's not that much weaker than Diancie and does not require your team to have a Trick Room mode for this to work. Rock Slide is also the single scariest move in the game when it's coming from a good, fast attacker with STAB, often forcing a switch out and a ridiculously annoying 30% for the partner to do nothing.

-> UR

This Pokemon is awful and does absolutely nothing

 

[Amaranth]

i guess beating up people not named stax qualifies me to post here a little bit despite not actually building any of my teams or knowing how this meta works

my one strong take is that stealth rocks lando-t is disgusting to the point of being close to mandatory, you don't always have to click it but in some match ups it's so insane and esp. as heatran gets less and less popular in favor of volc/talonflame it always finds good value
and lando-t is by far the best mon for it really, if for some reason you're using ttars or something they're fine too but it's so ridiculously convenient to just slap it on lando and move on
i've always been a massive fan of dou hazards in sm and after getting more familiar with xy i can confirm they are also broken here. run rocks.

oh and i guess tangentially related, ttar to t3. terrakion is trendy, bisharp is trendy, ttar just kind of sucks and i have a hard time thinking of reasons to run it in most builds when diancie exists and there's already lando-t to set rocks every game. i just feel like this mon's niche is too small for t2 rn

 

[Idyll]

people's champ's team dump and musings on the meta post-DPL.


On DeoSharp

Going into the tour, I'm pretty sure everyone was cognizant of this bastard duo and their ability to rip through MGar teams, among others. A lot of preparation was brought to be good into them, and a lot of the metagame's development seems to be come from much of their influence. One point here would be how the metagame seemed to hyperfocus in being specially defensive, which I will elaborate on in the next section. We can also see their influence in the rise of specific threats to beat them. Mega Scizor's rise, in particular, comes from its favorable matchup into Deoxys-A and Bisharp, among others, as it's practically the only Pokemon that can take both of their attacks and clap back in return; while Mega Scizor is weak to Mega Manectric, DeoSharp's presence actively discouraged its usage as can be seen from Mega Manectric having only 2 appearances. Another way people prepped for Bisharp in particular is assorted Pokemon running Fighting coverage. While Thundurus did occasionally use Superpower before for Tyranitar, the move is now practically a near-mainstay on the usual bulky Thundurus set because of Bisharp.


On the Metagame's Specially Defensive Bias

Pretty much everything in the metagame that opts to go bulky maximize their SpDef for two reasons: 1) Nearly every threat that matters is a special attacker; and 2) The few physical attackers that matter are more efficiently dealt with through other means. Deoxys-A is the present day's biggest culprit in driving this trend as a lot of stuff, like Volcanion, Thundurus, Landorus-T, and even P2, want to be as good into it in their lead matchup as can be, considering how if Deoxys-A can't force a KO it's practically a dead mon. However, in general, much of XY's attacking power consists of special attacks, from Volcanion and Mega Gengar, to the MGard and rain archetypes. The few relevant physical attackers in the format are either better checked through other, sharper lines of play (Bisharp, Diancie) or, just simply, Intimidate (opposing Landorus-T, everything else). Landorus-T practically acts as physicial defense investment for its team and it's actually sufficient, most of the time.


On the Metagame's Decreasing Offensive Investment

This one is related to the above as a lot of the metagame's decrease in power is actually going to SpDef. The XY metagame has been the slowest its ever been as a lot of its attacking threats mostly don't even bother running offensive investment, instead opting for bulk. While this is something that's not really new ever since people caught on to bulky MGar (somewhat of an exception as it does have reason to go for Def, but I'd consider SpDef now too), this is something that's reached new heights as practically everything is bulky. AV Volcanion is the format's posterchild for this as it's one of its best attackers despite running little to zero Special Attack investment, instead opting for more or less max SpDef for pure trading ability. I personally think this is because of how reliant this format is on super effective coverage; a lot of the top tier Pokemon in this format are good because their bulk makes them excellent utility Pokemon while at the same time their super effective coverage makes them capable offensive threats. Thundurus has Ice / Elec / Fighting, Volcanion with Fire / Water / Ground and sometimes Grass, and Lando-T has Ground and sometimes Fighting and Rock (Just STAB EQ itself is already a lot of value in this meta). A lot of the XY metagame right now seems to be about being able to force efficient trades more than anything, and with this in mind, Stealth Rocks are at its most important.


On AV Kyurem-B

This set gets a specific point because pretty much every trend in the metagame us in its favor. Kyurem-B is practically in line with everything I mentioned here, except it takes them to their extremes; it has one of the best coverage spreads in the entire format, with STAB Ice Beam also being very strong into Genies + Amoonguss, and at the same time it is one of the biggest statchecks in the entire format with an Assault Vest. It also makes as one of the more interesting ways to deal with DeoSharp, only really needing to watch out for Deo-A Superpower as Kyurem-B can actually afford to outrun Bisharp and clap it with an Earth Power while still being stupidly bulky. Going into Classic, keep AV Kyurem-B in mind for your prep, as I'd personally say that it's borderline tier 1 right now, only being unable to match the Genies's absurd utility.

-

Memoric DPL Teamdump: Genies + Volcanion in 5 Different Flavors

As the title implies, every team that was used in the Squirtles's XY slot has Genies + Volcanion, which I personally believe compose the format's current tier 1. All three of them simply have the combination of utility and super effective coverage that simply every team would never not want, as the combination of Prankster Thunder Wave, Intimidate, and sheer special defensive bulk is simply reliable in any matchup that we could ever face. In this teamdump, I really won't need to explain why I have these three as the reason is essentially constant, and so I'll just talk about why I opted to have the three other guys with them instead.


Week 1 | vs Stax

Hide

I always liked the MGard + double redirect style of team and I genuinely (still) think it's a top team in this metagame, considering the texture of the format right now. Considering how slow the format is, having a strong spread attacker behind two bulky Pokemon that protect it is a really efficient offensive engine. This archetype in particular should be really strong into DeoSharp as the archetype has no immediate of dealing with an MGard + redirection lead. As I went into this matchup blind as it's the first week, I also wanted this for its matchup into stax's spread, which consists of slow, bulky utility Pokemon with bland defensive typings. I lost this game in a rather frustrating way not because of the crit but because of the massive choke at the end; I wanted to scout for Gogs on the Gene, but the play I made doesn't actually make me beat it and it also loses to Boom Gene, which I shoul have been aware of. I knew that it could be Boom too since I was looking at a stax Gene set I had in my builder, but I really just forgor lol! That's just how it goes ig.

Week 2 | vs qsns

Hide

This week I actually... got really lazy and needed a quick and easy team to use. I built this like about an hour before the game, opting to use something really simple as no ideas really felt like the one at the time. It's just boring Kang + Sylv, nothing else to say really, as the game was really bad lol. Superpower Thund did work though!

Week 3 | vs JRL

Hide

Going into the matchup, I knew I wanted to use Turbo Aegislash as JRL seemed like someone who was going to DeoSharp Volcanion me. As was the prophecy, this was the matchup I got. Turbo Aegislash is good as it has the defensive typing to take on Deoxys-A; while both its special STAB moves are ass, Sacred Sword and Head Smash are better coverage moves into a lot of the metagame's top threats, such as Volcanion, Bisharp, Thundurus, and Kyurem-B. TurboSlash almost got 2 of the ones I was targeting, so I'd say it was a smashing success.

Week 4 | vs KyleCole

Hide

This week, I was prepping for either Rain or Diancie as I felt that this was KyleCole's range into me, so I basically knew I wanted to use Ferrothorn, a Pokemon that I myself have had never used in XY in a long time (I did give Amaranth a team with it last year, though!). Porygon2 was so I had a strong control option if ever I run into aggressive cheese strats. I was pleasantly surprised to see that I actually ran into Mega Diancie, which was also in KyleCole's range since he used Mega Scizor the week before so I was also putting him at "wack megas" (I was actually cognizant of Mega Altaria while building lmao). Game went well, even as all my Mega Gengar did on the field was exist, pretty much.

Week 5 | vs Amaranth

Hide

I actually didn't play this week as I had to save our SM slot, so miltankmilk played in our XY slot instead. Going into the matchup, considering the 4x usage of double genies so far, I knew for a fact that we were running into an Ice-type, particularly Kyurem-B. I initially gave milk a boring Diancie team, but as it wasn't working out, I then gave him a Mega Scizor team that I had around since Week 1 as I was hyping that Pokemon up to qsns at the time. Mega Scizor is a good mon into Ice-types but also generally DeoSharp, Mega Gengar, and Diancie. Chansey is on the team as suggested by milk (was originally Deoxys-A) to actually check... Mega Kangaskhan?! because it really shouldn't be running actual attacks in this meta, and Heal Pulse sounds really satanic with Mega Scizor and AV Kyurem-B. I'd personally say that this is the second-best team that was used for our XY slot this DPL.

-

Quick VR Noms


Gothitelle UR to 4 - Always been a good mon since last year, and has had a good showing this year. STag will never be bad. Really should have always been here but we forgor lol!


Tyranitar 2 to 3 - A lot that I can say about this is that it's generally just... not good enough? Its utility can be redundant with Lando-T's, and its strong Mega Gengar and Talonflame matchups aren't as necessary anymore. It's definitely not at the same level as the other Tier 2's, especially if the projected drop of Mega Gengar happens.


Mega Manectric 3 to 4 - Its niche of beating Mega Gengar is not as necessary, and it also has a HORRIBLE matchup into DeoSharp lol. Simply not at the same level of usability as other Tier 3s.


Shaymin-Sky 3 to 4 - Compared with the other Tier 3s, it just doesn't really offer any gamewarping utility that's a marker for the other mons in the same rank, like Sylveon's being a wincon, P2's massive bulk and TR, and Politoed's rain. It's just a plain simple fast attacker that's facing the troubling trend of everything going specially defensive, AV KB rising, and Thund being better than it was. Also, it's still weak to Mega Gengar. Overall, the niche it offers for a tier 3 mon simply isn't good enough for everything that's against it atm.


Mega Scizor UR to 4 - It's the only thing that can actually ACTUALLY beat DeoSharp comfortably, along with an assortment of other threats such as Kyu-B and Diancie. Synergizes realy really well with AVKB. Megas are generally taking more of autility role, and Mega Scizor offers the niche of having sharp favorable lines of play available against very common threats in the metagame. Despite its niche as a plain attacking matchup hunter, its access to U-turn means it's not actually vulnerable to Shadow Tag. Good tech mon all around


Suicune 4 to UR - Nobody uses this. Tailwind is not good enough. No coverage.


Zapdos 4 to UR - Nobody uses this too. Same reason, except this thing does have a small niche in being a bulky Electric. That niche isn't good enough right now and it's mostly outclassed by AVKB in what it wants to do, more or less.

 

[KyleCole]

Porter’s X2 (vs. Voltix version)

https://pokepast.es/3e8758bd67c6ad71
vs qsns
vs voltix

The ZeusCannon

https://pokepast.es/f483012a2dea698c
vs stax

I’m just going to jot my thoughts/notes on my teams and XY in general. Shoutouts SMB circa 2018 for making the SM teams these are based on and the present day GOAT for all of the building, testing, and support.

• It’s interesting that we can all go through DPL and have very different, in my case opposing, takeaways. Maybe a product of low game volume, confirmation bias, egoism, or all 3
• Contrary to amaranths experience, I never used stealth rock, never wanted it, and looking back I don’t think I would have even had time to click them if I was carrying. I have always been of the mind that you need to think carefully about running SR on lando because EQ, Skill Slide, Easy turn, and superpower are all very important. I have looked to the stars for guidance on this one but the future remains clouded to me…
• I’m also not in the load up on bulk camp. You’ll see I used scarf Kyub, band kyub, and banded landorus twice. Bandorus in particular was really really good and enabled a couple of bold KOs that I couldn’t go for with a wimpy low T set.
• You’re not getting the diancie team because it is walled so hard by p2 that the duck blocked me out even without it’s eviolite. I simply forgot it in the builder. Oops.
• I think the time of Deo Sharp is over, and if you load it up now expect to be playing uphill, but I would tentatively agree that Mega Scizor is a niche pick worthy of ranking. In my biased opinion the team I used is crazy good, and there is plenty of room for further creativity within the build. Scizor doesn’t need quick guard (it’s very good, but was Protect vs qsns) and thundurus can be flash cannon or even role play over Superpower if you want something different.
• As I have famously said, I think you can win in XY with just about anything and I still believe that. I think what is in tier 4 and what is just outside of it exist in this weird cloud of viability where we see a few bits at a time--there are only so many games in a tournament--but if you’re feeling a little wild stuff like WP Slowbro, Mega Heracross, Mega Aerodactyl, and more are all things I built with this season that that didn’t show up for one reason or another. Latios is UR atm, but I promise it’s at least as good as some of the stuff that’s ranked. Try some cool Pokémon in xy if you’re feeling it.
  
  VR thoughts follow:
  
  
• Gothitelle is good, needs ranking. I think it’s 3 but would settle for 4.
• I have never agreed with Ttar in 2 so it’s nice that y’all are catching up! Somewhat jk but yeah bring this down.
• Gengar can probably come down. It feels as good as kangaskhan and neither feel as ubiquitous as lando or cano
• Thundurus in rank 1 I don’t think is correct given that there are some MUs it’s just a brick into, but i may come around on this after deep thought- it’s a close call. Edit: I am now a believer in Thundurus Rank 1
• Agree with all of the UR noms.
• Deoxys to 3 is correct, but as I said earlier I think the peak of bisharp is behind us and it should stay in 3
• Terrak in 4 is probably fine, historically it’s been ok for beat up, so sure
• So far these have mostly all been drops but tbh most of the stuff that I think has improved has either only improved within its rank like Kyurem b, diancie, and swampert, or I think is probably good enough to rise but needs more proof like Thund T, Raichu, and Ludicolo

It bears repeating: shoutouts smBOAT + try XY and the cool Pokémon in it.

2024 Update: https://pokepast.es/39490fd4ac5ec242
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen6doublesou-2167454980-3p3buut684h44q9y6nbyai1uzl49tqdpw?p2
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen6doublesou-2167871910-wj417qt75h4b7wwz4utw0i6xdeop1i0pw

 

[Idyll]

[THREAD UPDATES]

[VIABILITY RANKINGS]

The XY DOU Viability Rankings is having another update! Votes for this consider developments throughout RoA Olympics, ORASPL, and DPL 8. KyleCole is also taking part as a voter for this particular slate, alongside myself, Mishimono, qsns, and SMB.

Falls:
Mega Gengar: 1 -> 2
Tyranitar: 2 -> 3
Hydreigon: 3 -> 4
Mega Manectric: 3 -> 4
Shaymin-Sky: 3 -> 4
Suicune: 4 -> UR
Zapdos: 4 -> UR

Rises

Thundurus: 2 -> 1
Deoxys-A: 4 -> 3
Gothitelle: UR -> 4
Mega Scizor: UR -> 4
Terrakion: UR -> 4

Voting Sheet

To see the new updated VR with these changes in effect, please see the second post on this thread!

Good luck to everyone in XY Cup and DOU Classic (because you'll need it lmao)! The XY VR will be updated again sometime after if any notable developments happen.

 

[zee]

ORASPL is back for another season, this time with 8 teams which means 2 more additional weeks of gaming. Isn't that epic. Like last year, I'll make a cumulative replays post in this thread that arctic will eventually have to take over when I get lazy, but for now I just wanted to do a brief run down on the 8 teams and their players before the tour starts. ORASPL is a pretty interesting environment, since it's the only non-DPL team tour to showcase the tier all year. Breakdowns are just gonna be in draft order , not power rankings.

- Singlethunder

From what I can tell, Singlethunder is the only player the Latias have drafted to play DOU, unless someone like London13 or star is going to be filling in. Singlethunder played one XY game in DPL and it was a loss to JRL, but I know that this is his favorite oldgen. He should be motivated to have a good run and will have no problem getting in test games with the rest of the pool.

Waifu Washers - Tenzai

Unfortunately here there's no real questioning it, Tenzo has been drafted to play XY alone unless he's getting some external help from someone not on the team. However, he's definitely competent, having some solid scattered XY showings here and there on top of his managing experience in this past DPL. Also, Spanish players automatically get a +1 buff.

Lansa a Barba - Shadowmonstr7, Arcticblast

Finally a team with a proper doubles core, we have shadow and arctic. I imagine what's gonna happen here is that Shadow's gonna do the playing and arctic's gonna do the building, as arctic had some cool teams from last oraspl and I know this is probably the tier he cares about the most. Shadow's just a generally solid player, pretty much a shoe in for these types of tours, and I think he'll do well especially with the support he's got

- Grandmas Cookin

Gma is a super solid player, but from what I know his preferred oldgen is SM so it's a little rough seeing him by himself in XY. That being said, he's an avid builder, and with the support network of The Doubles Jerk, he can probably get himself up to speed very quickly. I just wish he'd stop using mega mawile.

- zee, Toxigen

WHY DID I GO FOR 3K MORE THAN STAX LOLLLL WHAT

- Memoric

Memoric is probably the most self sufficient player in the entire tour, so it makes sense why he'd been purchased solo. From building to playing, a lot of what happens in modern XY can in some way be traced back to The Third Worlder, and although he has a reputation for rocky team tournament performances, I think he's gonna be just fine in this tour.

- Akaru Kokuyo

Akaru didn't get to play in this tour last year because I hogged his spotlight just to go 2-3, but there's no doubts about him now, being the current classic winner and an OSDT Quarterfinalist. Not quite the spain buff but Akaru still has the espanol power up, so again there's some bonus points. Think he'd be a favorite to top the pool if it wasn't the for the last team.

- stax, umbry

why the fuck is their mascot a hatterene. this is oraspl. okay, anyway. Yeah there's no disputing that stax is the strongest player in the pool and will probably beat everyone up. While there are multiple fossils in this pool who actually played when xy was current gen, it's pretty easy to say that stax is the best of them all and the new kids on the block are looking even worse. He's also not playing scl thanks to a last minute delete, which means he's probably at least somewhat hungry for a decent team tour run.

Ok I lied here's PRs.

stax, umbry
Akaru
Memoric
shadow, arctic
Tenzai
Grandmas Cookin
SingleThunder

quick edit:

I really do think this tour is gonna be a big one to follow if you care about getting into XY at all. There's more games per week here than DPL. So whether you wanna pick up teams for next year's classic or learn a few things about how the meta's developing before DPL 9, definitely follow along!!

 

[Arcticblast]

I'll make a cumulative replays post in this thread that arctic will eventually have to take over when I get lazy

Did you see how long it took me to get the SM stats up?

Since zee obviously left out the Rhyperiors when making their DOU power rankings, I'll post my own. If I don't say anything, it means I agree with zee's judgment:

1. stax/umbry is easily the top threat in the tournament this year. In the unlikely event that stax is somehow not the best player in the pool, umbry is still more than capable.
2. Memoric has more emotional investment in ORAS DOU than Akaru does, so I expect him to put in the extra effort.
3. zee/Toxigen is actually a terrifying duo with a lot of experience; I expect the two of them to finish with a solid record. I'm actually super curious to see who ends up being the prevailing voice in teambuilding.
4. Akaru Kokuyo is very good at Pokemon
5. Grandmas Cookin is just barely eking out a spot over Tenzai here, I honestly might just be putting them in alphabetical order LOL
6. Tenzai ^
7. SingleThunder is probably going to have the roughest time of it this season, but considering how many times I have been asked to play XY in the past, I'm sure he'll do just fine

 

[zee]

ORASPL DOU Teams, Replays, and Usage

Week 1

[WW] Tenzai vs Memoric [JK]
vs

[NS] Akaru Kokuyo vs Grandmas Cookin [WWV]
vs

[RVR] zee vs Shadowmonstr7 [LAB]
vs

[HCH] stax vs SingleThunder [LFL]
vs

Week 2

[WW] Tenzai vs Akaru Kokuyo [NS]
vs

[RVR] zee vs Memoric [JK]
vs

[HCH] stax vs Grandmas Cookin [WWV]
vs

[LFL] SingleThunder vs Arcticblast [LAB]
vs

Week 3

zee vs Tenzai
vs

Shadowmonstr7 vs Grandmas Cookin
vs

Akaru Kokoyu vs stax
vs

SingleThunder vs Memoric
vs

Week 4

Tenzai vs SingleThunder
vs

stax vs Arcticblast
vs

Grandmas Cookin vs zee
vs

Memoric vs Akaru Kokuyo
vs

Week 5

Tenzai vs Grandmas Cookin
vs

zee vs stax
vs

Arcticblast vs Memoric
vs

SingleThunder vs Akaru Kokuyo
vs

Week 6

Tenzai vs Shadowmonstr7
vs

Akaru Kokuyo vs zee
vs

Grandmas Cookin vs SingleThunder
vs

Memoric vs Stax
vs

Week 7

Memoric vs Grandmas Cookin
vs

Tenzai vs stax
vs

Akaru Kokuyo vs Shadowmonstr7
vs

Toxigen vs SingleThunder
vs

Player Records:
Tenzai (6-1)
Akaru Kokuyo (5-2)
Memoric (4-3)
zee (3-3)
stax (3-4)
Grandmas Cookin (2-5)
SingleThunder (2-5)
Toxigen (1-0)
Shadowmonstr7 (1-2)
Arcticblast (1-2)​

 

[Yoda2798]

There will be will a vote on Mega Salamence in XY DOU after the completion of the ongoing ORAS PL, see this thread for more information.

 

[Arcticblast]

I know it's not the end of the ORASPL season, but it's occurred to me that I have never once posted Manaphy Sand, despite using it mostly unchanged for like seven years now!

Importable

Manaphy @ Safety Goggles
Ability: Hydration
EVs: 128 HP / 204 SpA / 176 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Protect
- Tail Glow
- Ice Beam
- Scald

Talonflame @ Life Orb
Ability: Gale Wings
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Protect
- Flare Blitz
- Brave Bird
- Will-O-Wisp

Amoonguss @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 172 Def / 84 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Protect
- Spore
- Rage Powder
- Sludge Bomb

Tyranitar-Mega @ Tyranitarite
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Protect
- Dragon Dance
- Rock Slide
- Crunch

Excadrill @ Focus Sash
Ability: Sand Rush
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Protect
- Earthquake
- Iron Head
- Rock Slide

Zapdos @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP / 40 Def / 76 SpA / 124 SpD / 16 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 30 Def
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Tailwind
- Roost

I wish I still remembered some of the teambuilding process here, but like I said, it's been seven years. What I can tell you is that double setup is sometimes a lot for the bulkier balance teams to handle, and with a solid spread of resists across the team, it's not usually too hard to find an opportunity to set something up. That being said, this team struggles to defensively switch around threats, and often has to make difficult decisions and sacrifice something to try making a tempo swing the following turn. Manaphy is an Amoonguss lure, capable of OHKOing it at +3 with Ice Beam, or just ignoring it entirely and Scalding the thing next to it. Volcanion is a tricky matchup; while I have a lot of things that pose serious threats to Volcanion, none of those things can switch in safely. Amoonguss's attack gives you the choice of losing to Gastrodon or losing to Sylveon (the latter might just be a skill issue). Wisp Talon is still nice in a pinch, and gives Tyranitar and Manaphy a couple more setup opportunities.

Would I recommend you use this team? Absolutely not. Don't do it. It is super fun though, and reminds me of when I was actually good at Pokemon! I just want it written down somewhere for posterity.

Don't worry, a proper team dump will come later.

 

[zee]

As promised, I'm here with my post ORASPL teamdump and personal VR. Despite putting up a 3-3 this tour when my expectation was at least 4 wins, I had a lot of fun and I'm so proud of all the teams I made, so much so that I debated not dumping them all and saving some for DPL, but I think being forced to build better or pick a different tier in that tour might be more fun all the same. Shoutouts to Toxigen for teaming with me and giving me tests and feedback as well as Arcticblast for being my main test/theory partner for the tour.

Note that all the ORASPL replays are a few posts above so I'm gonna save myself some time and not link them in this post.

Week 1 vs Shadowmonstr7 (W) [Lavender Town]


Wanted to start off the tour with some Mega Gengar balance as I figured it was probably among the easier things to pilot (vs something like DeoSharp or rain which I think can be easier if you hit matchups but harder across the field and I had no idea what Arctic would end up building). The idea is that you lead Gengar + Kyurem into things and try to trade up a mon or two such that the endgame is more favorable for you as the opponent can't break the combination of Ferrothorn and Porygon2 with mixed Lando support (love the Lando set here btw, even if I'm sad to take away U-turn on a Gengar team. Thundurus was last minute addition - I originally had Entei and then Infernape because I thought I needed Fire coverage, but I think Thund is pretty perfect here.

I probably disrespected Amoonguss to much and that + Conkeldurr made the game super difficult, but after losing the early game I just knew I had to win with Ferrothorn and that's the spot I found myself in.

Week 2 vs Memoric (L) [New Mauville]


Clocking in at exactly 0 recycled Pokemon from last week, here's one of the Manectric teams that got used in the tournament. The idea is very simple, Manectric debuffs foes, Gothitelle makes sure they can't reset, Sylveon comes in to start boosting, and the offensive trio of scarf Hydreigon / CB Genesect / Terrakion takes on foes like Gengar, opposing Sylveon, Kangaskhan, and Thundururs. I really like this style of team and if I were to have reused any team during the tour it would be this one, despite the loss.

Memoric lucked me hard because he's bad, but he also got lucked in quite a few games this tour. XY Giveth and XY Taketh.

Week 3 vs Tenzai (W) [A Faraway Place]


Arctic beat me with a Whimsicott team and then I wanted to give it a try for myself, so I built WhimGar. I decided to forgo Fake Tears stuff because everything in the tier runs so much Special Defense as is that I felt like it would be inefficient, especially considering how much more I'd have to compromise Gengar's bulk. Latios is a super cool Pokemon, threatening great coverage, walling Volcanion, and providing additional Tailwind support. Scizor and Terrakion make up this team's physical offense and they do not disappoint.

I was the only person to take a game off Tenzai in regular season, bro's been on a tear. In game, it was actually really close until I called the Garde switch at the end. Probably the most fun and clean game I've gotten to play all season.

Week 4 vs Grandmas Cookin (L) [Stark Mountain]


DeoSharp is something that kinda put me on the map last ORASPL after I opened up that season with a win against JRL. Since then however, I felt like the meta had adjusted generally well to the core and it wasn't as spammable a year later, but I felt like Gma would use something that I could abuse it with. Charizard is an admittedly bad but fun mega, I think this team is just as viable with Gengar or Kangaskhan instead, but I wanted to use it at least once. AV Chu is pretty fun, Latios is recycled, Landot is pretty necessay, etc.

The game was pretty close but I got crit out of it in the final turn. When you consider a Shadow Ball drop it was a bit more than just the 1/16 crit chance in Gmas favor but I definitely had odds, sadly that's just Pokemon sometimes.

Week 5 vs stax (W) [Kalos Pokemon League]


A weird team of Pokemon because I felt like I needed something with both solid pacing and relative bulk if I was gonna beat stax, who is both stronger than me and way more unpredictable. CB Kyurem had one use so far this tour in Gma losing to Akaru, so I figured it would be relatively unexpected. Combined with Scarf Genesect and max/max 3 attacks Gengar, I felt like the offensive trio of the team was relatively sound. As for the defensive core, I just really love what Diancie and Gastrodon do for each other, there's a lot of offensive synergy and of course Storm Drain + their great bulk makes them hard to remove as well. Cresselia provides an EQ immunity and is the Trick Room setter with the best Kangaskhan matchup, so it felt like a pretty easy choice.

In game I traded up early, stax brought it back, and I made a crucial switch to keep Genesect's Choice Scarf un-Knocked for long enough to seal the game in my favor.

Week 6 vs Akaru (L) [Kanto Safari Zone]


I had exactly 0 Kangaskhan or Volcanion uses up to this point which was really surprising. So I threw together a pretty goodstuffsy team where I thought Safeguard Helmet Cress + SubToxic Aegislash would win any mirror matches I would come across. Most of the sets here are pretty standard after that, I don't know if 'lazy' is the right word for this week but I definitely wasn't as inspired as most other weeks.

I Shadow Balled a Bisharp on turn 3 that switched in and it got a Defiant boost. That's how the game went.

While I was a little frustrated at my losses, by no means did I play them perfectly and I won't claim that I deserve to be 6-0 or anything. At the end of the day I was happy to be picked, socialize with some new people in the team chat, and play some fairly low stakes games of my favorite old gen. Gardevoir is the only mega I'm a little bummed I didn't get to use before Mence meta rolls around (because we're freeing Mence...right?) but otherwise I'm decently happy with 6 weeks of team choices and play.

As for my VR, it's actually not too different from the midseason one I posted on Discord.

S:

A:

B1:

B2:

C: [ ]

D:

B1 and B2 exist because I dont think there's too much difference in viability between these Pokemon. I'll make official noms whenever the VR is closer to updating, which I guess will be around the conclusion of DPL.

 

[Grandmas Cookin]

I did not perform great in oraspl, partial copium because I was more focused on building and prep for scl so for a number of weeks I went into the battle with minimal prep beyond looking at what mons my opponents use a lot. despite that, I am proud of a lot of these teams and they could definitely perform better with some changes or a better understanding of the format.

w1 Akaru loss

going into week 1 I wanted to go with something standard because I am not very familiar with the format, I put together a pretty fat build and went into this game thinking I was gonna trade better, but I didn't really have a consistent form of damage and ended up just getting shit on by kang. if I were to change anything with the team after the fact I'd replace ferro with a p2 or aegislash to get some more damage potential on the team. additionally, a piece from current ss would be to run a super bulky tyranitar with dragon tail > pursuit as cycling sr damage is very good in this format.

w2 Stax loss

this game was definitely winnable for me, I think I had a slightly unfavourable matchup though this was mostly caused by timid volcanion (jolly max aegislash outspeeds modest max volcanion by 1 point) and I should have seen roar volcanion coming by the spikes element of klefk. I think azu is the only variant of garde that doesnt need double redirection to be viable, mostly because azu itself opens a lot of teams up to be cleaned by garde, or vice versa. I dont think this team needs any adjustments (besides psyshock > psychic on garde), it definitely came down to me getting skill diff'd by stax.

w3 Shadowmonstr7 loss

this game was incredibly unfortunate. stone edge hitting thund on turn 2 would completely change how this game plays out arguably in my favour. it feels like every time I face shadow in tours there is significant luck one way or another. this team was inspired by akarus week 1 team against me, however, I felt sylveon would benefit from kang a lot more than what the unrevealed diancie and uturn mew would have. not really much I can say otherwise cause I didnt get to really play the game this week.

w4 Zee win

always a pleasure to fight zee in tours, im not sure if it's intentional or not but they seem to always bring zardy against me in gen 6. with that in mind, despite my inhuman ability to intuition check charizard of all mons, I got a lucky crit that soured this otherwise great game. this is probably one of my weaker teams, rotom felt extremely out of place on this build and I 100% should have used either sash bisharp or deo, because my deosharp mirror is abysmal.

w5 Tenzai loss

turn 1 was not great for me, immediately sacking my deo wincon was not ideal and I had no buisness risking jolly bisharp that early in the game. that being said, tenzai played incredibly around my disable gar to setup for a tflame deo cleanup. this team is probably fine as is however it is a bit weak to bisharp if you cant catch them with superpower.

w6 SingleThunder win

I like to think I bluffed mega gengar by the placement of my slot 1 but i had actually forgotten to move my slots around to the pattern i use normally the week prior so who knows. this is the team im most proud of as I had been theorying mega diancie for several weeks. conk pairs perfectly with this build as it pushes diamond storm into ko range extremely easily and is itself a really good cleaner (and just fucking deletes things when it wants). highly underrated mons in both mega dian and conk.

w7 Memoric loss

I think fullroom is not great, but mawile itself is absolutely viable. I pulled matchup (purely the mega matchup because mawile is not beating landot thund volc on its own anytime soon) by bringing mawile into gardevoir, however going 0-6 on potential diamond storm boosts on top of an incredibly poor timing fire blast burn caused my diancie to fail its clean up duty. this team however, is extremely fun featuring toys like pup mawile to boost on passive turns from the opponent, and tickle goth that underspeeds mawile to allow for absurd double-ups that delete mons it shouldn't.

overall I think this tour was a great experience, and I'm glad to see where the format heads and looking forward to maybe seeing mence return to the format.

as for vr i really only have opinions on the rly popular stuff cause there isnt a ton of room for using 'shitmons' so ill rank things I used plus some notable stuff i wanted to use.
S:
A:
B:
C:
D:
stupid stinker tier:

 

[Idyll]

for no apparent reason, my oraspl was really hax-filled both in and against my favor LMAO but ending with a positive 4-3 record despite the weirdness is at least something im content with. I didn't really use new teams that much as I just used old teams retrofitted for the current meta and particular opponents (my Week 4 team in particular was REALLY REALLY old). I've only used new teams twice during the season, on Week 2 and Week 5, but they really weren't that interesting aside from exploring some Pokemon which I thought had an interesting niche in the metagame, which I'll be talking about below:


Yvangelista (Conkeldurr) @ Assault Vest
Ability: Guts
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Drain Punch
- Mach Punch
- Knock Off
- Ice Punch

Conkeldurr looked like it had a good match-up into a lot of important threats in the metagame, considering its natural bulk and great coverage. It's a great answer to Thundurus and Volcanion in particular as it can soak up their status-inducing moves thanks to Guts, with the Assault Vest and max Special Defense really helping out in tanking their attacks. Its being a Fighting-type, meanwhile, makes it great into Porygon2, Tyranitar, Mega Kangaskhan, and Bisharp, while Ice Punch access along with respectable physical bulk means Landorus-T can't easily disresepct it. The spread essentially lets it act like Assault Vest Volcanion, perhaps worse but nevertheless as a sidegrade; at the cost of some damage, Conkeldurr gains access to obscene Special Defense that lets it win out trades in this special attacker-oriented metagame, and Conkeldrurr still has great super effective coverage to cover the drawback. What makes Conkeldurr a really intriguing piece in the metagame is not only is it a great answer to Porygon, but there is nothing that covers the set of threats that it does; there's some stuff can cover Volcanion, some can cover the Dark-types, some can cover P2, and some can cover Mega Kangskhan, but nothing else can come off as capable (soft) answer to all of them except Conkeldurr.


Saga Seeker (Diancie) @ Diancite
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Diamond Storm
- Moonblast
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Protect

I was basically calling this the newfound XY protagonist because I believe that it's currently well-positioned in the metagame. The big reason why Mega Diancie declined was the popularity of Choice Scarf Landorus-T, but that set is essentially gone from the metagame; Deoxys-A is also seeing less use, while Mega Gengar has been running bulkier, weaker sets, so there's less stuff capable of outright picking Mega Diancie off. Meanwhile, Double Genies + Volcanion is a very popular, and these are what Mega Diancie excels at dealing with. The metagame isn't really prepared for an attacker with strong spread Rock damage at this power level, and the typical answer to physical attackers in Lando-T can also just be picked off with Moonblast / HP Ice by the same threat. There is also a weird influx of muskadeers that Mega Diancie is coincidentally poised to answer. When it comes to building with Mega Diancie, one only really needs to deal with P2, Scizor, and rain; considering Amoonguss and Volcanion are highly synergistic with Mega Diancie and with each other, building with Mega Diancie comes far easier than it appears. There's still experimentation to be made as I'm unsure whether or not HP Ice is better than Earth Power; it doesn't exactly need EP for the sake of neutral coverage, but it does get the OHKO on no HP Bisharp which may matter in certain scenarios.

I've also been taking the time to push the Mega Gardevoir + 2x redirection archetype as anyone following XY would now, I genuinely believe that this archetype is currently among the top of the meta in terms of power level, thanks to new technology that I've been repping as of late:


Master Plan (Gardevoir-Mega) @ Gardevoirite
Ability: Trace
- Hyper Voice
- Psyshock
- Calm Mind
- Protect

In earlier versions, where I used to run a Hidden Power or a tech move like Encore, slower and bulkier matchups tended to be a bit harder. This is because having two redirectors that do negative damage meant that I had less attacking pieces to use in bruteforcing my way through, and having what was essentially the equivalent of a chess queen in Mega Gardevoir be chipped down in extended trades tended to be unfavorable long-term. While these moves helped in some occasional position or so, they never really did much in the grand scheme of things.

Calm Mind really elevates how strong Mega Gardevoir can be as a wincon, being honestly quite a consistent tool to have in the teamstyle that MGard is good at. Considering that the XY meta is mostly composed of special attackers and that MGard is an already special defensively bulky attacker, a fast CM really lets me play quite disrespctful as I take significantly less damage from many common matchups, most particularly from Volcanion Heat Wave. The damage amp, meanwhile, is huge considering MGard's demonic SpA even without max investment, and it really comes in handy in offense matchups as everything is suddenly easily put into lethal range (Bisharp, for example, just dies from full to a +1 HV) as well as in slower matchups to force the issue on defensive cores. Having CM even means I could still match Sylveon if needed, as with MGard having Psyshock the match-up should be ultimately winning unless a crit happens or the matchup was played horrible wrong. The MGard archetype is great at making space for MGard, with the namesake 2x redirection as well as Intim Lando-T pivoting and Thundurus TWave, so getting a CM comes quite easy even around the early- to mid- game.

Ultimately, CM gives the archetype the depth it needed to push through the matchups where MGard as the sole breaker felt lacking, and really, a +1 +1 MGard is basically Thanos, especially considering all the layers of protection that it has.

***

Also I'll take the time to talk about my personal VR, using numbers because I'm not a menace to society:

Note: I'm ranking these according to "power level", which I understand is really vague but I'm pretty sure also makes enough sense.

* = Pokemon of that level of relevance / power within the metagame but only on specific teamcomps, and are probably significantly lower otherwise. No asterisk means the Pokemon are generally more "splashable". If I'm being honest, with the exception of the rain mons, the guiding question I used was "can I use this with either MGar or MKang?" and then I mulled about it further from there.


1: |

[1] really needs no explanation. Landorus-T is the metagame's best glue, being the Pokemon from which the viability of every physical attacker (including itself) is based around. Volcanion is Thanos.

2: | | | | |

2*: | | |

[2] should look fairly straightforward. It has the two Big Megas. It has resident asshole #2 in Thundurus, and it also has Spore. The two TR setters, meanwhile, are really at the bottom in viability for this rank and I was unsure if they should be here or in 3—considering I respect P2 and Diancie enough on the builder, I decided to just put them here. Important to note that these two represent the best generic, non-Thund form of speed control in the format.

[2*] features the othet two Megas that, while good, are also generally less "splashable" in the sense that there are very specific team comps where they're specifically good and not just outclassed—they're essentially archetype-defining mons by themselves, while the other two [2] Megas can be more-or-less put anywhere. Sylveon is here because, while it actually does fit with the [2] Megas and Mega Mane, having it takes teambuilding direction towards a more specific way due to the support that it needs to be not-bad.

3: | | | | | |

3*: | | | | |

This tier basically features the bottom-end of what I actually still consider as real threats in the builder. It has some bulky guys, some HO pieces, and rain. Only thing I've considered a bit harder is Goth's placement; it honestly maybe could be 2, but I really haven't seen it enough anywhere so I didn't. STag is always spooky though, with Zee's Mega Mane + Goth being what to myself was a grim reminder of how spooky it can be.

4: | | | | | | | | | | | |

4*: | | | | | |

The mons here are what I consider to be niche but still within the realm of "usable". Landorus here is essentially my most generous inclusion, I think it makes some sense and I've seen people trying it, but I also do think it's probably just bad lol. Mew is also my most generous in the sense that I really don't think it does anything that matters, but it's like on the verge of generically usable for anything so I'm like w/e. Scrafty is [4*] because it's only really used with MGar. Same with Muskadeers, I really think if you aren't using MGar with them then they should not be used at all.

EVERYONE STOP USING SCARF HYDREIGON IT'S SO BAD. (Other) notable exclusions are Latios (GARBAGE), Mega Blastoise (kekw), Mega Venusaur (needs insane hax to win), Azumarill (every archetype is ready for it without even trying), and Mega TTar (just use regular lol).

 

[Arcticblast]

Something something ORASPL team dump

Shadowmonstr7 and I didn't have the best season (nor did we have a good season), but it was still pretty fun, and a bunch of cool teambuilding ideas came out of it! I'm going to format this a little bit weird - the early weeks were filled with ideas and the later weeks were... well, not. But the teams didn't get built in the order they were used, and that inspires some of the thought processes, so weeks 1 through 4 are going to be in builder order and not battle order. Links are on the sprites!


used: Week 4, me vs stax (loss)

This is the first serious team I built for ORASPL season, and I had a bunch of weird ideas I wanted to try out. I still have a crippling fear of Deoxys and Bisharp from the previous ORASPL, and I knew Scizor was pretty good into those sorts of teams, with a strong Kangstuff matchup too. Thinking along the same lines, I wanted to try out Landorus-I. This thing does a lot of damage, and that's about all there is to say about it, though I liked the idea of having a physical setup attacker next to a fast special Life Orb user. I picked out Mew when I was looking for Fake Out users; it has an (obviously) wide movepool and is reasonably chunky, so it made for a pretty good pivot. Scarf Hydreigon isn't great, but it serves the pretty specific role on this team of switching in on Volcanion and threatening Draco Meteor, usually on the thing next to that. It also has Head Smash, because I like to pretend that Scarf Head Smash is a sun matchup.

I lost when stax pulled out the Scarf Beat Up Charizard and couldn't recover from that :(


used: Week 1, Shadowmonstr vs zee (loss)

A bit more of a grounded approach to Lando-I. My teambuilder was still looking a little silly (here's a surprise bonus team), and I was trying my hardest to not build Kang or Gengar, so I forced myself to build Manectric! I hate Manectric! But it turns out Shadow loves Manectric, and this team runs pretty well. Mega Manectric can compress the roles of Thundurus and Landorus-T if you squint real hard, and Lando-I itself gives you the Earthquake immunity. Conkeldurr is an idea I picked up from SingleThunder during week 1 testing. I won't go over it too much since Memoric talked about it above, but I think Conk has some very real merit (and I think that merit may disappear if we free Mence). I think in hindsight I'd probably make this AV Conk and Goggles Volcanion for the sake of the Amoonguss matchup.

Notably, this isn't the same version Shadow used, but the differences are pretty minor and not really worth going over. I think he used minspeed Volcanion?


used: Week 2, me vs SingleThunder (loss)

I used a very similar team to this during last year's ORASPL, and I think the concept still holds up (better than my gameplay at least). Ferrothorn is really good at just winning games on its own, especially when you take out the Fire moves, and Gengar helps it do just that. Beyond that, this is a really standard team. Porygon2 takes the place of AV Kyurem-B, which has been falling a bit out of favor lately. There isn't a whole lot to say about the average VLT squad, to be honest! They're just good! But you do have to be good at playing them to win, and clearly I am not as good at playing them as I'd like to think.


used: Week 3, Shadow vs GrandmasCookin (win) | Week 7, Shadow vs Akaru Kokuyo (loss)

This team came out of a couple of different ideas. I spent a lot of time this week trying to build Fake Tears Whimsicott teams, and ended up with a couple teams that I felt didn't really have enough bite to them. Whimsicott felt like a dead slot. I tabled that for a little bit, and decided to try other stuff. I don't remember the thought process behind CB Lando and bulky Defiant Thundurus exactly. I think I just wanted a Lando that did a lot of damage and a Thund that could sit on the field for a while. Defiant Thundurus was also a very strong pick this ORASPL in general, and while I think it might be a little unique to this tournament, it put up solid results Using CB Lando made me want a Mega that could take an Earthquake though, and with all of the proper airborne options sharing a weakness with one or both of the genies, I decided on Gardevoir, on the idea that I could switch in on my own Earthquake with Telepathy. Whimsicott somehow made its way back onto the team, but without Fake Tears this time, and that's when I realized I could just click Tailwind and click spread moves until the opponent dies. Aegislash made it onto the team because I wanted a Steel type, and HP Ice chunking Lando is just a bonus.

This team convinced zee to use Whimsicott too, so hey, I influenced something!


used: Week 5, me vs Memoric (win)

I talked about this team in my earlier post, so I won't go into much detail here. I was having a hard time coming up with new ideas and really wanted to bust out my favorite team, so I did. That game was an absolute mess, but I think I still had a strong matchup in a cleaner game.


used: Week 6, Shadow vs Tenzai (loss)

I'm not linking the importable for this team because it's pretty much identical to Memoric's protect-the-queen team, but this was a tough week. Tenzai was tearing it up with DeoSharp and I wanted a team that would be rock solid into it. Memoric and zee both suggested Gardevoir redirect comps, so Shadow and I decided on this, only to get clowned on by Mega Gengar instead. But hey, let nobody say I didn't prep!

 

[Yoda2798]

As of the recent vote following the earlier policy thread, Mega Salamence (Salamencite) is now unbanned from XY DOU. Tagging Kris to implement on PS.

 

[Platinum God n1n1]

What about Jirachi? We voted multiple times to not ban. Then the illuminati overid the result, the people rioted to prevent that. Then they took the same action once they saw an opportunity to get away with it. This is the biggest injustice never rectified to DOU

 

[Arcticblast]

What about Jirachi? We voted multiple times to not ban. Then the illuminati overid the result, the people rioted to prevent that. Then they took the same action once they saw an opportunity to get away with it. This is the biggest injustice never rectified to DOU

In the time since the end of XY, Jirachi has since been banned from every DOU format where it can use Follow Me. In addition to that, Jirachi is pretty generally agreed to the thing that made Mega Salamence so back breaking, as opposed to Mega Salamence itself. While some stuff has changed in the time since Jirachi's ban, like the rise of Volcanion, I don't personally believe that anything has changed that would make Jirachi any easier to handle.

As an additional note, Jirachi was re-banned by a vote of 19 total people, nearly 8 months after the release of Sun and Moon (and after Jirachi was also banned from SM).

If you can present a solid argument to unban Jirachi beyond "zomg illuminati banned it" then we can talk about it, but until then, there will be no action taken on Jirachi.

 

[Tenzai]

Hello everyone! I wasn´t thinking about doing this Team Dump but seeing that everybody made his own, I wanted to do it as well. I´m honestly happy with my teams and with the results I achieved this tour, so I would like to share some of my teams, at least, the ones that I didn´t steal to Stax and Memo xD.

Hyper Off DeoSharp + M Kangas

https://pokepast.es/503edddac332e900

Every team I´m going to show is a JRL structure, but together we have been choosing the different sets to build them according to the different opponents.

I have felt very confortable with this team, I think it´s a very solid one so I had no problem with using it several weeks this tour. It´s pretty simple but since ORAS DOU is an offensive tier, Hyper Offense compositions usually works well against everything that is not TR. Talking about this issue, the multiple priorities this team has, helps against the TR match-up. The raw strengh of the main core usually destroys the opposite menaces before they get to be problematic.

The replays from the ORAS PL tour:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen6doublesou-1681497372
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen6doublesou-1686385135-jovo3c8sce4078sliwq4qu8ygie9qxspw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen6doublesou-656179
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen6doublesou-1703452668
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen6doublesou-1669232625


M Diancie Rain + Bird Spam

https://pokepast.es/fa9dcf22316086c9

​

The first time I played vs Stax I wasn´t sure about what to bring, his teams are usually quite curious and I was afraid I got cteamed with the DeoSharp one. Then, JRL told me he built a Rain with MDiancie, so I choose it since I never played rain in ORAS before and I really liked it.

We discuss some of the mons in the team and we end up with this versión. I haven´t tested a lot but its quite easy and fun to play.

Replay vs Stax: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen6doublesou-1698075189


Hyper Off Whimsy TW + Fake Beat up

https://pokepast.es/17ab21b33ff55363

​

I used this team in the final. I was pretty sure about using Whimsi since it was being useful in SS in the SCL and I thought it could be useful here too. Paired with Scarf Terra it could be a nice idea (Stax already used it against me).

During the finals week, JRL showed me several cores including the TerraCott one, so we decided to use that one. We built the best possible team to play vs SingleThunder, and we saw that Lum was better than Scarf on Terrakion. The funny thing came when we decided that Beat Up wasn´t the best option here, so remembering Zee´s team from week 3, I thought it was a cool idea to play TerraCott without Beat Up since it conditions the game plan severely. So this was my final team.

Replay vs Single Thunder: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen6doublesou-1716146868

Final Thoughts

To summarize, I would like to say that I have enjoyed this tour so much, the games also were really great. I would like to thank JRL for helping me throughout the tour, without him I wouldn´t be able to perform like I did!. Also many thanks to Voltix for helping me make a post :)

 

[Actuarily]

Some quick nominations:

-> Tier 3

I posted my longer-form thoughts about Mega-Mence here, but Mence has a lot of poor matchups into the top 3 tiers, so I don't think it's worthy of the first two tiers. What it does well is intimidate and have decent typing to switch into some attacks, and from there click spread hyper voices and do good damage until it dies.

Tier 4 -> Tier 3

Ferrothorn is one of the best wincons in the tier, with great bulk, excellent defensive typing, and a useful ability into Mega-Kang. It's a solid TR check for offensive teams like rain, and is able to beat out other wincons like Sylveon. The larger metagame trends have been good for it, it's an excellent partner for Mega-Mence, and Volcanion earning the "best pokemon in the tier" status has actually been good for it, since as far as fire types go Volcanion is the lesser evil. The idea behind Ferrothorn is easy, set up rocks early and play Ferro around their fire type (usually Volcanion/Talonflame/Mega-Charizard) and in the end Ferrothorn wins out as shown by this replay (Same replay as above). Heatran, whose usage is way down, is actually the toughest matchup for Ferro, as it takes less damage from SR than the other fire types, and unlike Volcanion it takes extremely little from Ferro's STABs.

Ferro is obviously not invincible, and can be a bit passive sometimes, but it's definitely better than the rest of t4.

 

[Grandmas Cookin]

t4 -> t3
recent usage and tour success especially over other t4 mega in charizard should warrant this mon getting bumped up. it really appreciates the development of redirection spam that keep it safe and let it break teams. additionally boosting with cm makes its hyper voice extremely difficult to switch into

t4 -> t3
manectric stonks are up since it does a really good job checking mence, lots of value in this mon just dont let hazards go up

UR -> t4
rly nice glue mon, can fill a few roles on teams and has a lot of options / tech moves it can abuse just kinda doesnt take kills and somewhat exploitable occasionally keeping it from going any higher.

agree with actu noms

 

[Idyll]

VR Nominations Time!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

We've just had a huge meta shake-up with Mega Salamence unbanned, and the conclusion of the RoA Swiss tour has given us a glimpse of what it could do in the format. With that in mind, we are open for nominations to give Mega Salamence what is essentially a preliminary ranking before DPL and the Oldgen DOU Circuit tours come around, among other shifts in power throughout the format. We hope to hold voting by next week, so post your noms until then!


Mega Salamence: UR -> T3

In my opinion, Mega Salamence is quite on par with a lot of the metagame's key threats, being a stellar combination of defensive utility, Speed, and power that makes it one of the better buildarounds in the format. Make no mistake, the Tier 3 ranking is not actually low; with the format being quite centralized (T1 is Genies Volcanion, and T2 is Kang / Gar / Amoong, for reference), this ranking essentially represents Mega Salamence as belonging to the part of the metagame that still holds notable weight in how one builds and preps, on par with the likes of Mega Manectric, Bisharp, and rain. It has a notably bad match-up into Thundurus, but it has decent to great matchups to the rest of T1-2. Mega Salamence is a big bundle of stats that felt really good to use in matching up against faster offensive teams, especially considering that it can also Roost up and outvalue them, but it's also quite limited into bulkier, P2-centered teams as its power and defensive utility aren't as felt due to the dynamics of the matchup.


Kyurem-B: T2 -> T3

The teams that the AV set was good for, the MGar + Volcanion style of team, aren't as popular and generally this set has felt more exploitable as of late. KB itself is still good as a GenieKiller, and it did get another target in Mega Salamence, but the Scarf KB set was and is still quite niche overall. AVKB losing its relevance means that KB as a whole has a much lower place in XY.


Mega Gardevoir: T4 -> T3

Also nomming this up. Redirection spam + CM (which has been developed by me!!!!! btw) has clearly proven itself to have a real place in the meta as a teammstyle that aims to overwhelm opposing teams with an untouchable centerpiece. I've used it since XY Cup, and this replay serves as an example of how it can just take over a game really quickly. In addition, shadowmonstr7 has been using an MGard + Whimsi team to success, which shows that MGard itself isn't a one-trick pony and can also function as an independent attacking piece. Its relevance presence in the metagame as a solo attacker and as a buildaround should earn it a higher ranking.


Heatran: T3 -> T4

As modern XY DOU continues to go, it becomes more apparent just how bad Heatran really fits in the metagame. It really struggles to find a niche over Volcanion, which has better matchups and less outright losing ones in the metagame--Volcanion is relatively better into Landorus-T, Mega Gengar, and every bulky team thanks to its typing and relevant sets, and it's also actually usable against rain. Right now, Heatran's sole niche over Volcanion is being a Flying-resist, which makes it better into Mega Salamence and, less relevantly, Talonflame, and being good into Mega Salamence is very rarely a draw over Volcanion's being significantly better into everything else.


Excadrill: UR -> T4

This one is really simple: the introduction of Mega Salamence makes Tyranitar somewhat more relevant. Coincidentally, the introduction of Mega Salamence gives the Excadrill Sand archetype a Mega it perfectly synergizes with, as Mega Salamence is a Flying-type that boasts key resistances to Fire and Water. In turn, this perhaps gives Excadrill Sand, and thus Excadrill, a relevant place in the metagame.

I also agree with Mega Manectric for T3. Not because of Mega Salamence, but rather because I've always just thought it was T3-level since forever.