XY NU Theorymon Discussion

[Mistrals]

CB Kingler can OHKO Shuckle with its Crabhammer. But since that is unlikely, I expect most Shuckle to run Contrary instead. you're better off leading against it with some Ghost like Misdreavus (or even Mismagius if that one drops to NU). Despite Knock Off, you can Taunt it on turn 1 and then proceed to WoW it (Shuckle also suffers 4MSS, so it might not even carry Knock Off since it wants to carry Toxic as well as Stealth Rock and Sticky Web alongside Infestation, Rest and Shell Smash).

I'm more worried about Sawk in NU though, does it even have counters outside of Alomomola with the new Knock Off buff?

Alomo isn't even a complete counter.
252+ Atk Choice Band Sawk Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Alomomola: 286-337 (53.5 - 63.1%)

Shuckle can most likely forgo Shell Smash if it's setting the hazards.
Shuckle's probably going to want something like this:

Shuckle @ Leftovers
Ability: Sturdy(Since it''s not doing anything with contrary)
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Def / 252 SDef
Relaxed Nature
- Sticky Web
- Stealth Rock
- Toxic/Rest
- Infestation/Rest

blaziken1337 , Granbull is not allowed in this discussion. It says it in the OP, but you have a point with Aromatisse.

Oh, didn't see that before.

 

[Othesemo]

It can't beat Aromatisse or Granbull with that set.

252+ Atk Choice Band Sawk Stone Edge/Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Aromatisse: 154-182 (37.9 - 44.8%), and then Sawk has to fear an move that would KO, and even with SR that's not a very likely 2HKO at all.

I'm not even going to quote Mushy, since anyone who's run a Sawk probably knows that it can't do much with EQ, CC, or whatever else. You need knock off for it, and even then that's a 2HKO on Mushy if or if not it's carrying an item, so that really only works with predicted switches. That's with banded Sawk, as well. Scarf Sawk will do even less. And then there's Aromatisse there, which with that physical wall EVs will completely wall any Sawk not carrying poison jab. If it is carrying that, it again has to be a predicted switch like with Musharna. Add in Aromatisse can act like Alomo and stall it out with protect/wish easily without poison jab and kill with moonblast, and Mushy can stall with Moonlight and fire off psychics that OHKO in return.

The thing is, unlike Musharna, Aromatisse has no recovery outside of Wish, and unlike Alomomola it lacks Regenerator to compensate for the weakness. Even if Sawk can't 2HKO it on the switch, he can hit it with knock off and then switch to something that can either force it out or set up on it when it uses Wish, putting immense pressure on the opponent. If Aromatisse wants to check Sawk later in the match, it'll stay in and give whatever mon was switched in a free turn- if it switches out to a response and passes the wish, it'll likely have too little health to check Sawk later on in the match. So, while Aromatisse can beat Sawk 1 on 1, it will have a more difficult time than Mola or Mushy checking it throughout the match, especially if Sawk is a part of an offensive core (which he usually is). Coupled with toxic spikes or a second wish passer, it could be an effective check, but I don't think it'll be something like Mushy where you can just throw it on a team and say that you're insured against Sawk. And because of that, I don't think that many Sawk will start running Poison Jab to specifically deal with it.

 

[Punchshroom]

Okay, so me and Lolkomori where talking about Flareon, and please hear me out, I think Flareon could actually be pretty good in this meta as a choice scarf pokemon.

Flareon @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Flash Fire / Guts
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Jolly Nature
- Sleep Talk
- Return
- Flare Blitz
- Superpower

Those of you who play RU will probably recognize this as very similar to Choice Scarf Emboar, who is a boss mon in RU. Although Flareon is mostly inferior to Emboar even with Flare Blitz (it lacks dual STAB, is SR weak, lower physical bulk, and less coverage) it does have some pros (Better abilities, slightly higher attack and special bulk) and they have the same speed (base 65). With the newly introduced defog mechanisms and the introduction of the Fairy type only helps Flareon's case, as Fairies will likely be common in NU and one can actually keep SR of the field. Both abilities work on this set, as Flash Fire lets you spam even more powerful Flare Blitz's (which, lets be real, is why you are using Flareon in gen 6 in the first place) while switching into toxic just lets you wreck the opposing team (unfortunately sleep doesn't activate guts). This set is super cool cause it takes on all of the NU sleepers with ease including Jynx. Basically I think that Flareon may actually be decent this gen, now that it has a physical fire STAB.

1. scarf emboar wasn't that good in nu

2. flareon's special bulk is only slightly higher than emboar:

• 252 SpA Rotom-C Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Flareon: 124-147 (45.75 - 54.24%) -- 5.86% chance to 2HKO
• 252 SpA Rotom-C Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Emboar: 190-225 (52.63 - 62.32%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

3. blaze will give emboar more chances to fire off powerful flare blitzes than flare fire gives flareon

i probably wouldn't use flareon at all when emboar is in the tier but i guess it does fare better against jynx and fairies slightly

Even then, competition with Emboar isn't even one of Flareon's inherent issues. Flareon doesn't have the HP, hazard neutrality, and coverage that Emboar has, meaning a Scarf set wouldn't be all that great on Flareon regardless (aside from dry Baton Pass, but meh). The most notable thing Flareon has going for it is an all-out glass-cannon nuke set with Guts which can tear apart pretty much any non-Fire resist.

 

[Mistrals]

Even then, competition with Emboar isn't even one of Flareon's inherent issues. Flareon doesn't have the HP, hazard neutrality, and coverage that Emboar has, meaning a Scarf set wouldn't be all that great on Flareon regardless (aside from dry Baton Pass, but meh). The most notable thing Flareon has going for it is an all-out glass-cannon nuke set with Guts which can tear apart pretty much any non-Fire resist.

Even then, it's slow(Base 65), so anything faster with EQ can just take it out easily. It's movepool still lacks good coverage (Superpower is the only decent move there, and it forces you to switch or fodder your Flareon after use.) Facade and Quick Attack aren't that great without STAB, but that's the best it can run with a Guts set. A good glass cannon can actually outspeed a lot of things so it's fragilty doesn't matter. Flareon can outspeed Golurk, Rampardos and Ampharos(Who's staying in NU because it's still not that great with a mega, the mega is outsped by even Golurk) of the top of my head that actually matter in the NU metagame.

 

[Nozzle]

I want to talk about a personal fav of mine.

Leavanny was very outclassed last generation but it has some things going for it. First off, Sticky Web is a great move and Leavanny is fast enough to make it the most viable user in the NU tier of the move. It's pretty verstatile with good (but not great) coverage between STAB Leaf Blade and X-Scissor, and either Return for neutral coverage, Swords Dance to power through walls, Knock Off to cripple basically anything or heal bell to heal your team. SR weakness and Fire weakness kind of sucks though :/

 

[Martingale]

I want to talk about a personal fav of mine.

Leavanny was very outclassed last generation but it has some things going for it. First off, Sticky Web is a great move and Leavanny is fast enough to make it the most viable user in the NU tier of the move. It's pretty verstatile with good (but not great) coverage between STAB Leaf Blade and X-Scissor, and either Return for neutral coverage, Swords Dance to power through walls, Knock Off to cripple basically anything or Aromatherapy to heal your team. SR weakness and Fire weakness kind of sucks though :/

I genuinely doubt that Leavanny is going to stay in NU (hear me out for a second). Considering Galvantula is expected to raise from RU due to its Sticky Web access and offensive presence, I expect Leavanny to go to RU at least. A lot of the reasons you gave for why it'll do so well in NU is why it won't stay there. As you say, the dual-stabs of X-Scissor and Leaf Blade are nice enough especially off a Base 103 Attack (and heck, if you want run Shadow Claw or Knock Off). And if it feels too weak? Swords Dance. In higher tiers, Leavanny can use its Chlorophyll ability (even if weather teams are pretty much dead), and as an aside from using Sticky Web, it can also Baton Pass Agility or Swords Dance boosts. Access to Heal Bell only helps solidify its role as an offensive support mon. So I really don't think we'll be seeing this bug... Leaf... Thing... in NU next gen (at least not for long).

 

[Blast]

I genuinely doubt that Leavanny is going to stay in NU (hear me out for a second). Considering Galvantula is expected to raise from RU due to its Sticky Web access and offensive presence, I expect Leavanny to go to RU at least. A lot of the reasons you gave for why it'll do so well in NU is why it won't stay there. As you say, the dual-stabs of X-Scissor and Leaf Blade are nice enough especially off a Base 103 Attack (and heck, if you want run Shadow Claw or Knock Off). And if it feels too weak? Swords Dance. In higher tiers, Leavanny can use its Chlorophyll ability (even if weather teams are pretty much dead), and as an aside from using Sticky Web, it can also Baton Pass Agility or Swords Dance boosts. Access to Heal Bell only helps solidify its role as an offensive support mon. So I really don't think we'll be seeing this bug... Leaf... Thing... in NU next gen (at least not for long).

Thing is though, that Leavanny basically sucked last gen. It was outclassed at everything it does, it was frail, SR weak, and gets owned by some of the most common threats in the meta such as Jynx and Braviary. It can pretty much never sweep with SD either because it's STAB coverage is pretty lackluster for the most part and it's extremely easy to revenge kill. It got a pretty cool buff in the form of Sticky Web but it's not like Sticky Web is this insane must-have move on every single team, especially when the only viable user is such a poor Pokemon otherwise. While I don't doubt Leavanny will have a solid niche this gen I highly doubt it'll be THAT good.

 

[Valafar123]

I'm a bit late to the party, but I do bring some testing results from a few custom NU games I've had with friends, so that's something at least. They're not the be-all end all, but they have at least brought a few things to light for me.

As the thread discussed earlier, Sawk just became an even bigger threat. It was already the best wallbreaker in the tier with its flagship CB set with fantastic offensive power, typing and abilities. With the Knock Off buff, a lot of its would-be counters don't really do their job anymore. Ghost and Psychic-types get smacked with with ~100 power dark move and lose their item on top of it. Musharna and Misdreavus barely counter it, and Tangela has a much more difficult time too. Alomomola can take a hit, but it's still 2HKO'd by CC. As much as I love Sawk, I think it has to be suspected sooner or later. Any team with a solid momentum core can get Sawk in and out when it needs to show up and then your press the "something dies" button.

On the topic of fighting types, I think there are three that should certainly be discussed as potential new tier members:

1) Hitmonchan. Hitmonchan is... disappointing to be honest. It's not particularly strong and it's walled by all of Sawk's old counters. It doesn't really have the speed or power for an effective Band set like Sawk, it doesn't have the speed for a Scarf set like Primeape, and its uninvested physical defence is pretty poor. It does have one or two merits to make it useable, though. Firstly, Rapid Spin gives it team support opportunities. Unfortunately, running Rapid Spin tends to make Hitmonchan very Ghost weak (especially to Misdreavus). Secondly, it's absolutely perfect for an Assault Vest set. Thirdly, he has some ok coverage with the elemental punches and also packs priority in Mach/Bullet Punch. But in general, he's been really lacklustre in testing. He's outclassed by most fighting-types in the tier and doesn't carry anything meta breaking in his arsenal. I think he should be brought down to be honest.

2) Toxicroak. I don't know why it was OU when it was only good there for an ability nonexistent in lower tiers. Toxicroak is awful without rain. It has two nice abilities and strong priority, but that's all there is to it. All of his powerful coverage is inaccurate and he's super weak to ghost and psychic-types. He might be able to fill Sawk's void with banded Gunk Shot, but I have my doubts. Someone might rebuke me for suggesting such a drastic tier drop, but eh.

3) Pangoro. I know he's not allowed for discussion, so I won't discuss him. Just throwing his name out there.

Other Pokemon to be considered are Cryogonal and Quagsire. Quagsire is just flat out terrible in my opinion. The only thing he has over Seismitoad is Recover and a gimmicky ability.

Cryogonal's a bit sketchier, but I think it should be discussed. Cryogonal is a fantastic offensive Rapid Spinner with fantastic STAB coverage courtesy of Ice Beam and Freeze-Dry, making it pretty scary to face. His uninvested special bulk is decent too, meaning he can 2HKO something by taking a hit and then recovering off the battle damage. Unfortunately, that's where it ends for the angry snowflake. Basically everything that counters Jynx counters Cryogonal with even greater ease. To be honest, it's even easier to handle than Jynx. Jynx is much more powerful, has dual STAB for coverage, a much better movepool, an ability that's more relevant and it has Lovely Kiss so that its counters stop really being counters. Things like Grumpig, Hitmonchan, Metang and Miltank which all counter Cryogonal don't do very much to Jynx thanks to that obnoxious sleep move.

Which brings me on to discuss Jynx, actually. I think it should probably be suspected again. If it didn't have Lovely Kiss I wouldn't even be discussing it, but it does. It's in a similar boat to Sawk in some respects in that nothing really counters it. Special walls that want to switch in to it can't. They just get put to sleep, Jynx sets up in their face, and then it kills half their team unless they have a scarfer or anything faster than it (which isn't much, mind you). It takes some seriously risky prediction to handle Jynx and there aren't really many stable counters to it. The only thing that holds Jynx back is the fact that it can never do everything at once. It wants to run dual STAB, Lovely Kiss, Substitute, Nasty Plot and Focus Blast all at once and it can't.

Anyway, that tangent over, if Sawk gets banned, Weezing becomes a pretty reliable physical wall and pairs wonderfully with Probopass.

That's all I have for now.

 

[McGrrr]

This is the only place that a search revealed Flareon discussion, so I propose this:

Flareon @ Leftovers
Ability: Guts
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Spd / 252 SDef
Careful Nature
- Flare Blitz
- Heal Bell
- Sleep Talk
- Rest

Rejoice! Flareon can actually do something. It's a serviceable special sponge that offers cleric support, status absorption, and actual staying power. Rest activates Guts so Sleep Talking Flare Blitz is going to hurt. Alternatively, Flareon can wake up early by Sleep Talking Heal Bell.

 

[Melons-N-Soda]

Someone might rebuke me for suggesting such a drastic tier drop, but eh.

I personally wanted Claydol and Registeel to be NU but it never happened in Gen 5. Claydol got banned in RU for god knows why (What was the reason again?), and Registeel is pretty much his brothers with a better typing and bulk. And I was also thinking Gastrodon, but that's hard for me to explain why.

 

[watashi]

claydol never got banned in ru it moved up due to usage

registeel will probably be used too much in ru/uu to drop down but gastrodon is a good possibility

also McGrrr why not just run wish + protect? it's a lot more reliable and you don't need to rest off status because you have heal bell

 

[McGrrr]

also McGrrr why not just run wish + protect? it's a lot more reliable and you don't need to rest off status because you have heal bell

Firstly, Rest activates Guts. Secondly, the HP recovery is maximum and immediate. Thirdly, Sleep Talk allows Flareon to switch into e.g. grass types with Sleep Powder. Fourthly, waking yourself up by Sleep Talking Heal Bell is great.

 

[skies]

Seadra can fit a role that Kingdra does in OU.
Seadra @ Scope Lens
Ability: Sniper
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk / 4 HP
Timid Nature
- Focus Energy
- Hydro Pump
- Ice Beam
- Dragon Pulse
This set is similar to Kingdra's, but with less bulk and a worse typing. Feel free to read up more about this set in the Kingdra Thread, I don't want to re-explain what has been stated

 

[HispanicPanic]

A Pokemon that I think will be used more in NU is Exploud. Exploud gains access to Boomburst, which isn't as powerful as Chatot's, but Exploud does have better stats:
Comparison:
Exploud | Chatot
HP: 104 | 76 (28 Point Difference)
Attack: 91 | 65 (26 Point Difference
Defense: 63 | 45 (18 Point Difference)
Special Attack: 91 | 92 (1 Point Difference)
Special Defense: 73 | 42 (31 Point Difference)
Speed: 68 | 91 (23 Point Difference)
Base Stat Total: 490 | 411 (79 Point Difference)

Exploud has a better typing imo, as it has a lack of Stealth Rock weakness. Exploud also has a huge movepool and a useful ability, versus Chatot's tiny movepool and useless abilities. I'm not saying Chatot is bad in any way, merely outclassed. It does have an advantage with Chatter and Nasty Plot, but still, it doesn't have any bulk to pull off any of this. Choice Specs Boomburst that only a seldom resist is great, along with Surf and Fire Blast rounding off coverage. I'd also like to bring up another Pokemon that may now fit a niche as does its older brother.

Seadra can fit a role that Kingdra does in OU.
Seadra @ Scope Lens
Ability: Sniper
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk / 4 HP
Timid Nature
- Focus Energy
- Hydro Pump
- Ice Beam
- Dragon Pulse
This set is similar to Kingdra's, but with less bulk and a worse typing. Feel free to read up more about this set in the Kingdra Thread, I don't want to re-explain what has been stated

Firstly, Exploud was banned from this discussion in OP. Secondly, I don't think Seadra will be that popular even with that Sniper set. Even in BW, it was mostly outclassed offensively by Samurott and Simipour ignoring the chance that you land a critical hit with Sniper. When it was used, it was mostly used as a bulky water with Eviolite because it was probably the only bulky water with access to Disable. Even then, it barely had a niche, and I don't think that'll change in XY NU.

 

[skies]

Firstly, Exploud was banned from this discussion in OP. Secondly, I don't think Seadra will be that popular even with that Sniper set. Even in BW, it was mostly outclassed offensively by Samurott and Simipour ignoring the chance that you land a critical hit with Sniper. When it was used, it was mostly used as a bulky water with Eviolite because it was probably the only bulky water with access to Disable. Even then, it barely had a niche, and I don't think that'll change in XY NU.

Oh, oops, sorry! I read the OP, I just must've skipped over Exploud. I'll edit that out of my post, sorry again!

 

[atomicllamas]

Firstly, Rest activates Guts. Secondly, the HP recovery is maximum and immediate. Thirdly, Sleep Talk allows Flareon to switch into e.g. grass types with Sleep Powder. Fourthly, waking yourself up by Sleep Talking Heal Bell is great.

It should be noted rest don't activate guts and flareon can't use guts that well.

 

[Axa]

A few things that might be major, or even minor:

-Butterfree: now base 90 sp. Atk
-Pidgeot: now 101 base speed
-Raichu: now 110 base speed
-Wigglytuff: now Normal/Fairy, base 85 sp. Atk
-Vileplume: now base 110 sp. Atk
-Golem: now base 120 Atk

Here are some of the more interesting ones, I think:

-Roselia/Vileplume: With Poison now a more attractive type and Mawile and Scolipede most likely gone, Roselia might become even stronger now. Vileplume also makes a return with increased Sp. Atk and a new move with Infestation, though it might not have much room for it. They both also learn Dazzling Gleam; a possible coverage option if Altaria starts rising again, but once again it's moveslot syndrome.

-Wigglytuff: Part Fairy, and comes with immunity to Ghost and Dragon and resistances to Bug and Dark, as well as Competitive. Its new Sp. Atk is marred though by the special moves nerfs, which means it might go back to Seismic Toss for damage. Possible support option since it'll probably be the only Fairy-type SR setter.

-Butterfree: Now stronger. However Grass-types are immune to Sleep Powder now and while Bug Buzz will handle most of them, Roselia/Vileplume are neutral to it. HP Flying also got a nerf. Energy Ball got a buff, but Butterfree rarely uses it.

-Golem: Much more dangerous with 120 base Atk.

-Victreebel: Power Whip and Weather Ball now legal, Energy Ball buff, and a new move/combo in Gluttony/Belch. Modest Belch 2HKOs Vileplume but only 3HKOs Roselia. Victreebel will likely never be running it on Sunnybeam sets, so it'd go back to Sludge Bomb, and also where the nerf to HP will show; thankfully it has Weather Ball.

 

[McGrrr]

It should be noted rest don't activate guts and flareon can't use guts that well.

Can anybody confirm that Sleep/Rest no longer affect Guts/Quick Feet?

Veekun and Bulbapedia conflict with the above. This is the first time that I have heard about the nerf.

 

[Blast]

Can anybody confirm that Sleep/Rest no longer affect Guts/Quick Feet?

Veekun and Bulbapedia conflict with the above. This is the first time that I have heard about the nerf.

I checked, Rest does activate Guts (though it doesn't affect Façade). That's probably one of the better sets out there because it can serve as a somewhat niche check to Jynx and the like and still pack a decent punch, though Flareon still isn't a very good wall in general because of its poor defensive typing, lopsided defenses, and SR weakness.

 

[watashi]

4 pages of discussion and only 1 measly mention of combusken? with eviolite and baton pass it performs ninjask's job 100 times better since it can actually take hits decently. it also has decent type synergy with some of the physical sweepers in the tier such as samurott, malamar, and carracosta. you can pair it up with dual screen support from meowstic or something to get pretty much a guaranteed +2 atk +3 spe to one of your teammates. probably one of the biggest new threats in xy nu and can set up a sweep in a blink of an eye.

Combusken @ Eviolite
Ability: Speed Boost
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Protect
- Flare Blitz / Substitute
- Baton Pass

 

[eriados]

Even then, it's slow(Base 65), so anything faster with EQ can just take it out easily. It's movepool still lacks good coverage (Superpower is the only decent move there, and it forces you to switch or fodder your Flareon after use.) Facade and Quick Attack aren't that great without STAB, but that's the best it can run with a Guts set. A good glass cannon can actually outspeed a lot of things so it's fragilty doesn't matter. Flareon can outspeed Golurk, Rampardos and Ampharos(Who's staying in NU because it's still not that great with a mega, the mega is outsped by even Golurk) of the top of my head that actually matter in the NU metagame.

Rampardos matters in NU???

skuntank got big big buffs this gen imo. we'll probably see more utility sets instead of the boring sucker punch / pursuit / taunt / crunch|filler set that everybody ran in gen V. defog obviously is cool, poison jab will see a lot more use (skunk doesn't get knock off q_q), you're no longer pigeonholed into using taunt + lum to beat utility missy on the switch cause CB sawk can now beat it with knock off. !!! as mentioned before due to dark STAB getting buffed it can also now trap metang and probopass doesnt hard wall you anymore. for the new pokes, the only thing of them that really beats skunk is carbink, but you can just taunt it, and and furfrou, and you have a really nice matchup vs the fairies/meowstic. however golem still shits on you and there will probably be drops from RU like rhydon/drapion who also shit on you or give skunk competition. overall it seems like skuntank has a solid shot at being slightly more useful than just a trapper/priority abuser this time around.

 

[Punchshroom]

Yeah Combusken got quite the buff and would definitely be noticed, but I'm more concerned around the inevitable Fighting cores that would pop up. Sawk and Primeape got great coverage options in Knock Off, while Primeape even has an also-buffed Assurance, to smack Ghosts and Psychics hard, while also having the benefit of crippling walls like Alomomola and Tangela. With the need for Ice Punch (which was mainly for Golurk) lessened, they can equip Poison Jab to hit Fairies instead, or just go back to their regular EdgeQuake coverage to catch anything ranging to Flying-, Bug- and Poison-types. Yeah they're pretty hard to stop safely now, instead of just throwing a Musharna / Misdreavus in their faces and calling it a day. CB Sawk 2HKOes Musharna with Knock Off btw.

 

[Valafar123]

I personally wanted Claydol and Registeel to be NU but it never happened in Gen 5. Claydol got banned in RU for god knows why (What was the reason again?), and Registeel is pretty much his brothers with a better typing and bulk. And I was also thinking Gastrodon, but that's hard for me to explain why.

I can always test Claydol and Registeel in my custom format that I'm playing with friends. I think Registeel is a little too much since it is effectively a better Propbopass (who is good as it is!).

Claydol can probably make it to NU though. I'll add it and see what becomes of it.

Gastrodon is still very good. I use it in Ubers as my Kyogre counter, actually.

Rampardos matters in NU???

skuntank got big big buffs this gen imo. we'll probably see more utility sets instead of the boring sucker punch / pursuit / taunt / crunch|filler set that everybody ran in gen V. defog obviously is cool, poison jab will see a lot more use (skunk doesn't get knock off q_q), you're no longer pigeonholed into using taunt + lum to beat utility missy on the switch cause CB sawk can now beat it with knock off. !!! as mentioned before due to dark STAB getting buffed it can also now trap metang and probopass doesnt hard wall you anymore. for the new pokes, the only thing of them that really beats skunk is carbink, but you can just taunt it, and and furfrou, and you have a really nice matchup vs the fairies/meowstic. however golem still shits on you and there will probably be drops from RU like rhydon/drapion who also shit on you or give skunk competition. overall it seems like skuntank has a solid shot at being slightly more useful than just a trapper/priority abuser this time around.

If Sawk goes, I guess Rampardos becomes the de facto wallbreaker of the tier. Scarf Rampardos has roughly the same offensive stats and sort of similar coverage, and even has the same lovely ability. I'm trying it now, incidentally.

Skuntank is a Pokemon I can never really know where I stand with. On the one hand, it's got a stellar movepool and typing. On the other hand, its stats are pretty awful.

If I see Rhydon drop I'm going to facepalm. It's physical stats are just... wow. Yes, it's slow. Yes, it has horrible typing. But its stats are still absolutely absurd.

Yeah Combusken got quite the buff and would definitely be noticed, but I'm more concerned around the inevitable Fighting cores that would pop up. Sawk and Primeape got great coverage options in Knock Off, while Primeape even has an also-buffed Assurance, to smack Ghosts and Psychics hard, while also having the benefit of crippling walls like Alomomola and Tangela. With the need for Ice Punch (which was mainly for Golurk) lessened, they can equip Poison Jab to hit Fairies instead, or just go back to their regular EdgeQuake coverage to catch anything ranging to Flying-, Bug- and Poison-types. Yeah they're pretty hard to stop safely now, instead of just throwing a Musharna / Misdreavus in their faces and calling it a day. CB Sawk 2HKOes Musharna with Knock Off btw.

Combusken is a cool cluck this gen. I'm just worried that it'll become Ninjask, who does the same thing.

 

[eriados]

If Sawk goes, I guess Rampardos becomes the de facto wallbreaker of the tier. Scarf Rampardos has roughly the same offensive stats and sort of similar coverage, and even has the same lovely ability. I'm trying it now, incidentally.

252 Atk Rampardos Head Smash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Alomomola: 244-288 (45.6 - 53.9%) -- 46.9% chance to 2HKO
252 Atk Rampardos Head Smash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Tangela: 127-151 (38 - 45.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

Rampardos can't break through mola/tangela in the first place, which was the huge upside of using CB Sawk, aside from denying hazards. it's stats (besides attack) are pretty severely lacking in comparison to sawk. and there's no reason sawk would ever leave NU, seeing as how Fighting types were more nerfed than buffed Gen VI and RU has Hitmonlee/Gallade/Primeape which outclass sawk pretty hard in whatever role it wants to pull off.

 

[Aasgier]

You should use something that prevents Sawk from locking into Close Combat even if you won't switch into it, like a Ghost or Musharna. Leavanny or Masquerain also prevent Mold Breaker Earthquake (no Banded Sawk is going to risk that either of them switches in as they will both just start to set up on Sawk if it decides to do so).

Ramparados is more dangerous in that regard, since the things that resist its Head Smash can't take its Superpower or Earthquake well enough outside of dedicated walls, Torterra being an exception.

Especially Banded Ramparados is something that has quite the fearsome offensive presence despite being easily revenge-killed.