XY NU Theorymon Discussion

[Punchshroom]

Okay so I think it's about time we started discussing the Ghost- and Dark-types of the tier.

As we all know, Ghosts and Darks got a huge buff this gen thanks to their STABs now hitting Steel neutrally. This is a huge setback for Pokémon such as Metang, whose once-positive matchup against these types has literally become straight-up negative! Ghosts and Darks also happen to have particularly excellent type synergy with each other and very similar offensive coverage, which when combined allows them to cover their weaknesses quite nicely and weaken their counters. Especially with the departure of Mandibuzz from the tier, Ghost- and Dark-types have more potential than ever before, and I can definitely foresee quite a few of these guys becoming some of the most powerful threats in the meta.

Mightyena @ Life Orb / BlackGlasses
Trait: Moxie
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Adamant / Jolly Nature
- Crunch
- Sucker Punch
- Play Rough
- Taunt / Substitute

Easily one of the most unnoticed Dark-types to exist, now even Mightyena has a decent shot at success. Before it struggled to do any sort of damage to Dark-resists, but now it has near perfect 2-move coverage in Dark and Fairy, which is pretty crucial for a Moxie sweeper to have, permitting it to run both Crunch and Sucker Punch. Play Rough now makes even Gurdurr and Throh pause before jumping in, while throttling its fellow Dark brethren. Unboosted Mightyena is still pretty weak though and its speed isn't impressive either, but it's definitely better than what it was before.

 

[Franklyna]

Mightyena @ Life Orb / BlackGlasses
Trait: Moxie
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Adamant / Jolly Nature
- Crunch
- Sucker Punch
- Play Rough
- Taunt / Substitute

Easily one of the most unnoticed Dark-types to exist, now even Mightyena has a decent shot at success. Before it struggled to do any sort of damage to Dark-resists, but now it has near perfect 2-move coverage in Dark and Fairy, which is pretty crucial for a Moxie sweeper to have, permitting it to run both Crunch and Sucker Punch. Play Rough now makes even Gurdurr and Throh pause before jumping in, while throttling its fellow Dark brethren. Unboosted Mightyena is still pretty weak though and its speed isn't impressive either, but it's definitely better than what it was before.

I did a quick run-through of the current NU tier list, and it does indeed look like Mightyena gets perfect coverage with Crunch and Play Rough. I'd probably run Toxic, Roar, or even Yawn in the fourth moveslot, but that looks like a pretty solid set. His middling speed isn't too appealing for a sweeper, though...I wonder if he'd be able to run a Scarf set without sacrificing too much of his damage output?

 

[Brawlfest]

I did a quick run-through of the current NU tier list, and it does indeed look like Mightyena gets perfect coverage with Crunch and Play Rough. I'd probably run Toxic, Roar, or even Yawn in the fourth moveslot, but that looks like a pretty solid set. His middling speed isn't too appealing for a sweeper, though...I wonder if he'd be able to run a Scarf set without sacrificing too much of his damage output?

You are going to want Taunt / Sub to attempt to beat alomomola, or create a barrier to patch your atrocious speed.

 

[Mistrals]

Mightyena hits everything that isn't a Steel/Fairy type neutrally with Crunch and play rough. So Mawile and Klefki, both of which are irrelevant no matter how they tier mega evolutions as Mawile isn't really any good even with fairy typing.

Looking at the dark and ghost types, some quick thoughts:

Zwelious: This thing was useless already. Now it has a 4x weakness to fairy. yeah no thanks.

Shiftry: An interesting defog user.. but it doesn't really have any big niches in NU except maybe a sun team's defogger.

Missy: Sawk got knock off. GG Missy.
Don't get me wrong, Missy still has it's uses, but it's abillity to deal with Sawk was a very rare and useful thing. Without that, what reason is there to use it over something like Weezing?

Skuntank: Defog should be interesting, it'll play practically the same roll though otherwise.

Liepard: Other than getting Play Rough, nothing worth noting. Still going to be the annoying swagplay t-waver we know and despise lol. At least a banded/LO/whatever else for physical pard set has one more useful move.

Drifblim: Got a decent physical ghost stab, I guess it could pull off a power herb unburden set with PhantomForce.

Cacturne: I don't think there's anything new here. Slightly more used as a spiker, but there are better choices IMO.

Haunter: uh.. can hit steels without coverage. Still needs HP ground or something for Skuntank though.

Golurk: I really, really have to wonder if it stays NU. It would have moved up last time they did the usage stats, and with the way they're tiering in 6th gen, I could easily see it staying in RU. Of course, that would most likely mean we would get Dusknoir.

Dusknoir?: Considering it's spinblocking is a lot less useful, what reason does it even have to stay RU?

Sneasel: Gets Icicle Crash and a good dark STAB finally in Knock Off(Sneasel why u no learn Night Slash?). It's actually looking a lot scarier.

Lampent: people actually use this silly thing?

Shedinja: Unless it gets Sturdy as a hidden abillity, and even then.. yuck.

 

[Brawlfest]

Mightyena hits everything that isn't a Steel/Fairy type neutrally with Crunch and play rough. So Mawile and Klefki, both of which are irrelevant no matter how they tier mega evolutions as Mawile isn't really any good even with fairy typing.

Looking at the dark and ghost types, some quick thoughts:

Zwelious: This thing was useless already. Now it has a 4x weakness to fairy. yeah no thanks.

Shiftry: An interesting defog user.. but it doesn't really have any big niches in NU except maybe a sun team's defogger.

Missy: Sawk got knock off. GG Missy.
Don't get me wrong, Missy still has it's uses, but it's abillity to deal with Sawk was a very rare and useful thing. Without that, what reason is there to use it over something like Weezing?

Skuntank: Defog should be interesting, it'll play practically the same roll though otherwise.

Liepard: Other than getting Play Rough, nothing worth noting. Still going to be the annoying swagplay t-waver we know and despise lol. At least a banded/LO/whatever else for physical pard set has one more useful move.

Drifblim: Got a decent physical ghost stab, I guess it could pull off a power herb unburden set with PhantomForce.

Cacturne: I don't think there's anything new here. Slightly more used as a spiker, but there are better choices IMO.

Haunter: uh.. can hit steels without coverage. Still needs HP ground or something for Skuntank though.

Golurk: I really, really have to wonder if it stays NU. It would have moved up last time they did the usage stats, and with the way they're tiering in 6th gen, I could easily see it staying in RU. Of course, that would most likely mean we would get Dusknoir.

Dusknoir?: Considering it's spinblocking is a lot less useful, what reason does it even have to stay RU?

Sneasel: Gets Icicle Crash and a good dark STAB finally in Knock Off(Sneasel why u no learn Night Slash?). It's actually looking a lot scarier.

Lampent: people actually use this silly thing?

Shedinja: Unless it gets Sturdy as a hidden abillity, and even then.. yuck.

Im going to have to say I disagree with a lot of things you said.

Zweilous is very useful on bulkier teams, as an amazing phazer as well as tank.
Shiftry has a very strong NU niche as a mixed wallbreaker, packing a extremely strong Leaf Storm in tandem with Nature Power and Sucker Punch to round off coverage.
While I agree missy will be less useful due to knock off, Weezing doesn't outclass it due to Mold Breaker Earthquake.
Drifblim should typically either be running AcroGem with 3 support moves to eliminate threats to your team (such as destiny bond , will-o-wisp, disable, substitute, thunder wave), or a Sweeping set utilizing Calm Mind, Thunderbolt + Shadow Ball, and a single Support / Utility in Substitute, Will-O-Wisp, or Destiny bond. There is no reason to use Power Herb Phantom Force, its completely outclassed.
Lampent does get some usage, although very niche. It can check Charizard, and its SubSplit set hits rather hard, as well as its trick room set. Not worth using though, as it is always outclassed.

 

[Mistrals]

Im going to have to say I disagree with a lot of things you said.

Zweilous is very useful on bulkier teams, as an amazing phazer as well as tank.
Shiftry has a very strong NU niche as a mixed wallbreaker, packing a extremely strong Leaf Storm in tandem with Nature Power and Sucker Punch to round off coverage.
While I agree missy will be less useful due to knock off, Weezing doesn't outclass it due to Mold Breaker Earthquake.
Drifblim should typically either be running AcroGem with 3 support moves to eliminate threats to your team (such as destiny bond , will-o-wisp, disable, substitute, thunder wave), or a Sweeping set utilizing Calm Mind, Thunderbolt + Shadow Ball, and a single Support / Utility in Substitute, Will-O-Wisp, or Destiny bond. There is no reason to use Power Herb Phantom Force, its completely outclassed.
Lampent does get some usage, although very niche. It can check Charizard, and its SubSplit set hits rather hard, as well as its trick room set. Not worth using though, as it is always outclassed.

Zwelious as a phazer lol. why the heck would you choose something that misses it's moves over a RestTalkDD Dragon Tail Dragonair, and that's just for dragon types. There are so many better phazers. Mandibuzz, Golbat, Lickilicky..

Shiftry also has low defenses, 80 speed, a ton of weakness and very little safe switch-ins. Also, nature power is tri attack in gen 6. So yeah, no. Cacturne has safe switches with water absorb, higher attack and special attack, and can set spikes, so all that Shiftry has over it is Defog and Leaf Storm. not exactly impressive.

Weezing wasn't meant to wall Sawk lol. Missy can't wall Sawk now was all that I was saying. Weezing just plays a similar roll to everything else Missy does, with burn support, pain split, and even black sludge instead of eviolite, as well as now toxic spikes and versatility that Missy quite simply doesn't have. That's why I think it'll be used in lieu of Missy. If you have Sawk problems go use Aromatisse, I doubt many people will want to forgo more important coverage for Poison Jab on just it practically. (And Granbull, but it's banned in the discussion so whatever.)

Drifblim cannot use flying gem as there is no flying gem in XY.(All gems except normal are gone.) That suggestion was an alternative to acrogem for 6th generation use of Unburden.

Lampent won't be checking zard as zard is OU right now it it does not appear that megas will be separate. And as you said it's outclassed in everything. I've seen it used about twice. ik people use it, but I think it's on the Lumineon level of usage pretty much. Way down there.

 

[Franklyna]

Good point, Brawlfest. Substitute does provide a good buffer for Mightyena to wreck some havoc. And, as for Lampent, I had great success using him in NU. In addition to checking Charizard, he's surprisingly bulky with Eviolite attached and has a wide array of coverage/support moves and sets to keep your opponent guessing. I often had many free opportunities to switch my Lampent in, with how rampant choice locked CC Sawk is in NU.

Also, in regards to Dusknoir, he does get Infestation. Assuming he does drop down to NU, an Infestation trapping set might be viable due to his bulk.

 

[Axa]

Shiftry also gets STAB Knock Off, and is one of the better users down in NU. I don't see him getting a lot of traction, however.

I think Haunter is still one of the best Ghost-types, especially with STAB Sludge Bomb hitting Fairies super effectively and learning Focus Blast if it really needs to.

I'd really want Mightyena to be able to do well but that 70 speed is really difficult to look past. If Ninjask stays around BPing Subs and Speed Boosts could be really handy (as is Swords Dance for getting those Moxie boosts started early.)

 

[Brawlfest]

Zwelious as a phazer lol. why the heck would you choose something that misses it's moves over a RestTalkDD Dragon Tail Dragonair, and that's just for dragon types. There are so many better phazers. Mandibuzz, Golbat, Lickilicky..

Shiftry also has low defenses, 80 speed, a ton of weakness and very little safe switch-ins. Also, nature power is tri attack in gen 6. So yeah, no. Cacturne has safe switches with water absorb, higher attack and special attack, and can set spikes, so all that Shiftry has over it is Defog and Leaf Storm. not exactly impressive.

Weezing wasn't meant to wall Sawk lol. Missy can't wall Sawk now was all that I was saying. Weezing just plays a similar roll to everything else Missy does, with burn support, pain split, and even black sludge instead of eviolite, as well as now toxic spikes and versatility that Missy quite simply doesn't have. That's why I think it'll be used in lieu of Missy. If you have Sawk problems go use Aromatisse, I doubt many people will want to forgo more important coverage for Poison Jab on just it practically. (And Granbull, but it's banned in the discussion so whatever.)

Drifblim cannot use flying gem as there is no flying gem in XY.(All gems except normal are gone.) That suggestion was an alternative to acrogem for 6th generation use of Unburden.

Lampent won't be checking zard as zard is OU right now it it does not appear that megas will be separate. And as you said it's outclassed in everything. I've seen it used about twice. ik people use it, but I think it's on the Lumineon level of usage pretty much. Way down there.

Zweilous is better than dragonair due to better mixed bulk, as well as access to both Roar and Dragon Tail. (if you want to see one in action refer to ebeast's highly successful http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/evioliters.3481093/ team). It is better as a dedicated phazer than Golbat, Mandibuzz, and Lickilicky. The problem with those three is that they suffer from four moveslot syndrome. Golbat and Mandibuzz cannot lose Roost, Foul Play / Brave Bird, Taunt, or Toxic, or it defeats their purpose, making it very hard to fit. Lickilicky on the other hand, finds a hard time breaking substitutes with it's dragon tail, making it setup fodder. It also has issues lacking a main STAB, often being incapable of beating an opponent one on one when left as it's last pokemon.

Shiftry actually outclasses Cacturne in terms of a mixed wallbreaker in it's coverage. Nature power is almost necessary in shiftrys ability to straight up destroy Probopass, or eliminate Skunk on the switch. It also has a Stab in Dark Pulse to back up Sucker Punch, especially when concern of eliminating non-attacking threats is concerned. Cacturne's primary use comes from a different niche in spikes, as well as being a dedicated setup sweeper check to Alomomola in it's sub-sd sets. Shiftry comes from a more offensive perspective, and while it lacks Cacturnes amazing offenses, it's passable bulk and speed, as well as amazing movepool give it it's mixed wallbreaker niche.

Remember that missy also can go on the offensive with it's Nasty Plot sets to check sawk, but do remember that both have their issues in checking sawk. That being said, while Weezing does get more variety this gen, it still lacks one distinct thing that missy has. Speed. Missy's quick taunts and burns let it efficiently shut down entire stall teams with little to no issue, making it a powerful check to the tiers strongest fighting types and bulkiest mons!

I do see where the flying gem argument is coming from, so I retract that statement, sorry for the mistake! :]

cheers!

 

[Shuckleking87]

Also brawlfest, nature power in 6th generation is tri-attack, not earthquake. I would say then that cacturne with focus blast/brick break/superpower is a better mixed wallbreaker, though its a shame cacturne is so slow and doesnt have leaf storm :( Shiftry definitely did lose a peg with the change in nature power, though leaf storm still hits like a truck (or a bunch of leaves),

 

[Mistrals]

Zweilous is better than dragonair due to better mixed bulk, as well as access to both Roar and Dragon Tail. (if you want to see one in action refer to ebeast's highly successful http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/evioliters.3481093/ team). It is better as a dedicated phazer than Golbat, Mandibuzz, and Lickilicky. The problem with those three is that they suffer from four moveslot syndrome. Golbat and Mandibuzz cannot lose Roost, Foul Play / Brave Bird, Taunt, or Toxic, or it defeats their purpose, making it very hard to fit. Lickilicky on the other hand, finds a hard time breaking substitutes with it's dragon tail, making it setup fodder. It also has issues lacking a main STAB, often being incapable of beating an opponent one on one when left as it's last pokemon.

Shiftry actually outclasses Cacturne in terms of a mixed wallbreaker in it's coverage. Nature power is almost necessary in shiftrys ability to straight up destroy Probopass, or eliminate Skunk on the switch. It also has a Stab in Dark Pulse to back up Sucker Punch, especially when concern of eliminating non-attacking threats is concerned. Cacturne's primary use comes from a different niche in spikes, as well as being a dedicated setup sweeper check to Alomomola in it's sub-sd sets. Shiftry comes from a more offensive perspective, and while it lacks Cacturnes amazing offenses, it's passable bulk and speed, as well as amazing movepool give it it's mixed wallbreaker niche.

Remember that missy also can go on the offensive with it's Nasty Plot sets to check sawk, but do remember that both have their issues in checking sawk. That being said, while Weezing does get more variety this gen, it still lacks one distinct thing that missy has. Speed. Missy's quick taunts and burns let it efficiently shut down entire stall teams with little to no issue, making it a powerful check to the tiers strongest fighting types and bulkiest mons!

I do see where the flying gem argument is coming from, so I retract that statement, sorry for the mistake! :]

cheers!

While Missy's speed is nice, Knock Off will quite simply screw it over this generation, removing it's eviolite and basically crippling it, and most things that get it will be running it either as coverage or STAB.

Cacturne has a STAB Dark Pulse as well, and again, Nature Power is default Tri Attack in 6th gen, not default Earthquake. Not to mention Cacturne also learns it, so those points on coverage outclassing Cacturne are kind of moot in 5th generation as well. Cacturne also has the same defenses and only a bit less HP.

 

[teamdreamers412]

Since I'm now just joining this discussion I'll cover a couple of things I've missed out on.

NFES:
Fletchinder and Frogadier both seem like interesting new additions. However, I'm really interested in Whirlipede (since Scolipede's probably getting banned). It has 99 Def and 79 Sp.Def boosted even further by Eviolite. It also has access to Speed Boost, Baton Pass, Swords Dance, and Iron Defense meaning it'll probably surpass our current Baton Passers who would ordinarily try to fill that niche (Combusken and Ninjask) along with Megahorn so you can somewhat dent stuff.

Defog:
Nothing much new to add here except I just wanna voice my opinion. Skuntank gets a nice side boost (Dark bypassing Steels) plus he automatically removes Toxic Spikes meaning worse case scenario he still does some good and even if there are no entry hazards up when he comes out he can still remove items with Knock-Off. A good utility-mon in my opinion.
Shiftry also deserves note as another Defogger who is neutral to Stealth Rocks.
The most interesting thing in my opinion is if Defog will cause any drops from RU. If Rapid Spin really does lose a lot of ground due to Defog some of them may drop from RU.

Now to jump onto the current discussion!
Ghost and Dark:
Sadly not too many Steel-Types reside in NU. However, this being said Metang got screwed (especially with buffed Knock-Off) and Klang doesn't appreciate having one less resist to switch-in on.
As a result I think most Ghost-Types got hurt more then helped here due to Knock-Off's boost cutting Missy's defenses down, Haunter loses an extra attack boost, and Golurk either loses ATK with its Choice Band or recovery with Leftovers. Acroblim doesn't mind though as it'll probably drop its item first chance it gets. Lampent now resists Fairy-Types though and can bypass Subs.
Despite getting two buffs Dark-Types now also have to watch out for Fairies. So Skuntank with Poison Jab and a neutrality to Fairies will probably see some uses (unless a few previous posts turn out to be correct and Drapion does drop). I'm just upset Mightyena doesn't have Pursuit if so Moxie would really have more to talk about being able to kill-off weakened Ghost-Types like Missy.
Since the last few posts turned to Cacturne versus Shiftry. I'll also voice my opinion on that to stay up to date. Cacturne can heal with Drain Punch or Water Absorb while Shiftry can't meaning the difference in bulk is probably less then important. The access to Spikes also helps Cacturne.

There done, now I'll be able to keep up.

 

[Bummer]

Haven't seen much talk in here about viable Assault Vest users, so I figured I'd browse the BW2 NU list and find some examples. While plenty of mons would appreciate the extra special bulk, I was mainly looking for mons who one way or the other could regain their health while keeping an offensive presence. Jynx was a fearsome threat pre-XY and thus all of these have been tested against her strongest attack (although Jynx might be a bad example since Psyshock deals more than 50% to most of them). I also haven't played NU in quite some time, so be gentle if my logic is way out of line, particularly as it's all theory.

Eelektross

Eelektross @ Assault Vest
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SDef
Brave Nature
- Thunder Punch / Thunderbolt
- Drain Punch
- U-Turn
- Knock Off

Eelektross @ Assault Vest
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SAtk / 4 SDef
Quiet Nature
- Volt Switch / Superpower
- Giga Drain
- Flamethrower
- Thunderbolt / Superpower / Acid Spray

Eelektross is first out because it's the most versatile out of the bunch, having both Giga Drain and Drain Punch to replentish HP, but also both Volt Switch and U-Turn to act as a bulky pivot. Combined with how Levitate grants it ground immunity, virtually no SE special attacks will hit this fellow. After that, it all boils down to whether you want to go physical or special.

Its physical STAB movepool is terrible since Wild Charge doesn't feel feasible with a bulky set, so if Thunder Punch doesn't cut it then Thunderbolt makes for some mixed damage. Drain Punch and U-Turn are two great moves for reasons stated above, where Knock Off makes for offensive utility. The special set has good coverage with a bunch of neat options to use, but since it'll be used to switch into special attackers, targetting their generally weaker defense might be an overall better option.

Edited in Brawlfest's suggestion.

252+ SpA Life Orb Jynx Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Assault Vest Eelektross: 153-183 (40.9 - 48.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

Ludicolo

Ludicolo @ Assault Vest
Ability: Own Tempo
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SAtk / 4 SDef
Modest Nature
- Giga Drain
- Scald / Hydro Pump
- Ice Beam
- Focus Blast

Ludicolo already had good special bulk before the vest, and even though it can't use Leech Seed, it has a STAB Giga Drain to abuse instead. The rest of its moveset is essentially there for coverage, where Focus Miss can be replaced with any Hidden Power of your choice depending on your team's needs (although do remember it's only 60 BP now). Fearing only Air Slash, Bug Buzz and Sludge Bomb, this dancing pineapple can withstand plenty of special hits.

252+ SpA Life Orb Jynx Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Assault Vest Ludicolo: 129-152 (35.4 - 41.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ SpA Life Orb Haunter Sludge Bomb vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Assault Vest Ludicolo: 257-304 (70.6 - 83.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Regirock

Regirock @ Assault Vest
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SDef
Impish Nature
- Stone Edge
- Drain Punch
- Earthquake
- Ice/Fire Punch / Explosion / Power-Up Punch

Regirock has gotten some discussion in the OU forums, and for good reason. Even outside of Sandstorm, Regirock gains excellent special bulk with AV, and unlike other users it doesn't care much for Psyshock due to its stellar defense. While it might miss using Stealth Rock, Toxic or Thunder Wave, EdgeQuake and Drain Punch gives it plenty of neutral coverage and a means to sustain its health. Last slot is dedicated to whatever you needs the most, be it more coverage or to go out with a bang when the end is nigh. Power-Up Punch is generally a gimmick option, but given Regirock's bulk on both sides, I feel it deserves a mention since the Attack boost will definitely help it hang around longer.

252+ SpA Life Orb Jynx Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Assault Vest Regirock: 129-152 (35.4 - 41.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ SpA Life Orb Jynx Psyshock vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Regirock: 94-110 (25.8 - 30.2%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
252+ SpA Life Orb Jynx Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Assault Vest Regirock: 229-270 (62.9 - 74.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Seismitoad

Seismitoad @ Assault Vest
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SDef
Brave Nature
- Earthquake
- Hydro Pump / Scald
- Drain Punch
- Knock Off

Seismitoad has been a great pick in NU before, and AV gives it another set to use. With its base Attack increased to 95 in XY, both its Earthquake and Drain Punch have gotten stronger, where Knock Off serves as both good coverage against common special attackers as well as thwarting the plans for any switch-in. With literally no physical Water move to rely on, you'll have to use either Hydro Pump for more power or Scald for potentially burning physical threats. And while Drain Punch helps it last longer, it can also gain HP by switching into foreseen water attacks, making it easier to keep the toad around longer.

252+ SpA Life Orb Jynx Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Assault Vest Seismitoad: 164-192 (39.6 - 46.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ SpA Samurott Grass Knot (80 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Assault Vest Seismitoad: 288-340 (69.5 - 82.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Skuntank

Skuntank @ Assault Vest
Ability: Aftermath
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SDef
Adamant Nature
- Pursuit
- Sucker Punch
- Poison Jab
- Crunch / Play Rough / Explosion

Out of this whole list, Skuntank is my only example that has no means of recovery, but if you play it right, it won't need to! Pursuit is still as good as ever, and Sucker Punch takes care of faster threats after taking the hit on the way in. Poison Jab is your secondary STAB to deal neutral damage against plenty of opponents, as well as putting some serious hurt on fairies. The last moveslot is up to you, whether you want some reliable Dark STAB, Fairy coverage to bash opposing Fighting and Dark types, or Explosion to make a significant last impression. So while Taunt and Defog are two great moves that's impossible with this set, gaining some additional special bulk to handle opposing psychics, ghosts and fairies feels like a fair trade-off.

252+ SpA Life Orb Jynx Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Assault Vest Skuntank: 191-226 (46.5 - 55.1%) -- 66% chance to 2HKO
252+ SpA Life Orb Haunter Hidden Power Ground vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Assault Vest Skuntank: 172-203 (41.9 - 49.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
+1 252+ SpA Musharna Hidden Power Ground vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Assault Vest Skuntank: 188-222 (45.8 - 54.1%) -- 49.2% chance to 2HKO
252 SpA Aromatisse Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Assault Vest Skuntank: 127-151 (30.9 - 36.8%) -- 68.6% chance to 3HKO

 

[Brawlfest]

Bummer
Wow, I can't believe we've gone for so long without talking about AV users! I'm definitely going to add a few of my own below. Looking at yours, I really love the Eel, Ludicolo, and Skunk! :) I'm still unsure about seismitoad, because it's loss of Rain Dance, Toxic, Stealth Rocks, or Substitute hurts it a lot, but I can see how the bulk helps. I also am unsure about Regirock, as a few of the pokemon it will be trying to check will 2HKO or OHKO regardless of the vest, and it doesn't alieviate it's issues against pokemon such as Ludicolo or Samurott, who will still relentlessly smash it with little to no problem.

Just a quick edit on your eel:
Eel should have Superpower listed as an alternative over Volt Switch rather than Thunderbolt, as it absolutely needs T-Bolt to guarantee a 2HKO on a pokemon such as Alomomola, and doesn't actually need Volt Switch unless you are using it as a pivot. You also cannot use Volt Switch to bait in pokemon you are willing to nail with Superpower, such as Lickilicky or Audino, as you will be forced out regardless!

[Below are my AV Users]
___________________________________________

Samurott

Samurott @ Assault Vest
Ability: Shell Armor / Torrent
EVs: 252 SAtk / 252 HP / 4 Spd
Modest Nature
- Hydro Pump / Scald
- Hidden Power [Grass]
- Ice Beam
- Megahorn / Aqua Jet

Samurott first on my list for a Assault Vest abuser, due to its above average defenses, a great HP, and a awe-inspiring special attack and physical attack. The set aims to absorb hits, but continuously fire back heavy hits, and takes a more defensive look on the current LO Special Attacking set. Hydro Pump or Scald acts as its main STAB, either hitting extremely hard, or burning physical attackers. HP Grass helps it to beat Seismitoad, Carracosta, Alomomola, and other water types. Ice Beam nails grass types surprisingly hard, allowing it to eliminate pokemon such as Vileplume who typically force it out. Megahorn is carried to beat Jynx and Ludicolo, both of which wall the rest of this set. If you do not fear them, Aqua Jet is also a viable alternative, allowing you to potentially eliminate weakened faster threats. Modest is run over -def / -sdef natures because the sacrifice to attack doesn't hurt Megahorn that much, and still puts Ludi + Jynx at risk. That being said, running lower defenses is counterproductive to our Samurott's strategy!

252+ SpA Ludicolo Giga Drain vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Assault Vest Samurott: 186-222 (47.2 - 56.3%) -- 80.1% chance to 2HKO

252+ SpA Life Orb Samurott Hidden Power Grass vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Assault Vest Samurott: 146-174 (37 - 44.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

252 SpA Rotom-S Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Assault Vest Samurott: 228-270 (57.8 - 68.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Golurk

Golurk @ Assault Vest
Ability: Iron Fist
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 HP / 4 SDef
Adamant Nature
- Drain Punch
- Shadow Punch
- Earthquake
- Ice Punch

A Golurk that can survive LO Jynx's Ice Beam? Yes please. Golurk can viably use an Assault Vest over it's standard Choice Band, giving it the freedom to choose moves, but also switch into attacks it normally is incapable of. The standard four moves of every Golurk is slapped on. Earthquake is the primary STAB used, hitting extremely hard regardless of its ability. Shadow Punch is a secondary STAB, beating most of the Psychics in the tier. Drain Punch helps it patch its weakness against dark types, as well as provides it with an excellent method of recovering HP. Ice Punch is the final move, helping it beat out Flying and Grass types, rounding off its coverage. With Iron Fist, it makes Golurk capable of swiftly taking out many of NU's standard threats in one to two hits. Unlike many other Assault Vest users, it carries amazing coverage, making it not only hard to hit, but extremely difficult to switch into, giving Golurk the sturdiness it needs to fire off continuous attacks, something CB Lurk and EBelt Lurk lacked greatly. (It also bluffs CB Extremely well!)

252 SpA Life Orb Jynx Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Assault Vest Golurk: 283-335 (74 - 87.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ SpA Life Orb Samurott Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Assault Vest Golurk: 361-429 (94.5 - 112.3%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO

178+ SpA Exeggutor Giga Drain vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Assault Vest Golurk: 200-236 (52.3 - 61.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Vileplume

Vileplume @ Assault Vest
Ability: Chlorophyll
EVs: 252 SAtk / 252 HP / 4 SDef
Modest Nature
- Giga Drain
- Sludge Bomb
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Dazzling Gleam / Infestation

My final nomination, Assault Vest Vileplume. This item gives her the edge over Pivot Roselia, allowing her to sponge hits better, but dish out more damage. That being said, Vileplume does miss Moonlight / Synthesis, and Sleep Powder a lot. However, by forgoeing it, she is able to run a bulky pivot set, beating a lot of NU monsters. Giga Drain acts as her form of recovery, as well as the primary STAB she will be Spamming. Sludge Bomb is her stronger STAB, helping her hit other Grass types, as well as the newfound Fairy type for super effective damage. HP Fire helps her hit Steel types who resist her dual STAB hard. The final Spot really was just filler, so Dazzling Gleam was put to beat out Dragons who resist Giga Drain, as well as Fighting / Dark types such as Gurdurr, who she can sponge a hit from and now hit back hard. Infestation helps you trap an opponent, giving you the free switch and to pivot into your correct check or counter, but tbh its useless and you will never use it. It is worth mentioning that this set hits surprisingly hard, even OHKO'ing things such as Gardevoir, who enjoy countering it.

252 SpA Life Orb Jynx Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Vileplume: 257-304 (72.5 - 85.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 SpA Life Orb Gardevoir Psychic vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Vileplume: 273-322 (77.1 - 90.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 SpA Charizard Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Vileplume: 234-276 (66.1 - 77.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

 

[Franklyna]

How about a Muk Infestation trapping set? Between Muk's nice special bulk, good defensive typing, and Poison Touch + Poison Jab combo (51% chance to poison with every use of Poison Jab, according to the current analysis), Muk can easily whittle down walls and support mons who rely on Toxic to get the job done. If you can fit Power-Up Punch onto his moveset he can basically use something like Alomomola as his punching bag for a few turns before it dies from Muk's attacks, poison, and the Infestation chip damage.


Muk @ Black Sludge
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Ability: Poison Touch
- Gunk Shot / Poison Jab
- Power-up Punch / Ice Punch
- Infestation
- Shadow Sneak

 

[Brawlfest]

Franklyna
Good Idea! Why don't you slap Memento on there. This could act as an extremely good supporter, trapping any pokemon which cannot do much to your sweeper, then Memento'ing if you want to proceed to set up other pokemon. This could act as a great momentum gaining pokemon, as well as Utility support. Remember that Muk also gets Pain Split as a semi-reliable recovery move this generation, which could be extremely important to it's standard Touncher set, allowing it to stay around for a while. Speaking of Assault vests, a AV Muk isn't out of the question, with already good bulk, and pretty respectable offenses.

Assault Vest Muk:

Muk @ Assault Vest
Ability: Poison Touch
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 HP / 4 Def
Adamant Nature
- Poison Jab / Gunk Shot
- Shadow Sneak
- Ice Punch / Brick Break / Fire Punch
- Explosion

This Muk is essentially a Touncher Muk v2. With amazing bulk, Muk can switch into even the hardest super effective special attacks, and live by a whim, to fire off amazingly strong attacks. When equipped with Poison Touch, it can essentially have a 60% chance to poison opponents with it's main STAB poison jab, and 30% in just about anything else. Gunk Shot is an option option for added power. Shadow Sneak helps it beat its counter, Psychic types, while Ice Punch helps it beat it's other, Ground. Brick Break and Fire Punch are alternatives to beat Steel types whom are immune to it's STAB, and Explosion is a healthy dose of strong when Touncher gets low enough, to essentially eliminate any single pokemon of your choice! This thing is so bulky, and can OHKO just about any pokemon it pleases with either Gunk Shot or Explosion, making it a very well rounded all out attacker!

252 SpA Life Orb Jynx Psychic vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Assault Vest Muk: 237-281 (57.2 - 67.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 SpA Life Orb Gardevoir Psychic vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Assault Vest Muk: 250-296 (60.3 - 71.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ SpA Probopass Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Assault Vest Muk: 102-120 (24.6 - 28.9%) -- 99.7% chance to 4HKO

 

[teamdreamers412]

Can AV Muk run Pain Split? Isn't Pain Split a Status Move?
Ledian has Iron Fist boosted Drain Punch as well as good Specially Defensive Bulk. Sorry, I just saw that and had to say something about it.
Shuckle with Assault Vest...345 Base Sp. Def...god, too bad he can't recover with it. Then again with Infestation it could come in and force any Special Attacker out and threaten to trap them. Then again Shuckle is gimmicky at best.

There's also Lopunny who (due to Klutz) can Switcheroo its Assault Vest onto opponents and render them incapable of using support moves. It could cripple quite a few walls this way. Its also the only Pokemon who can do it.

 

[Brawlfest]

Can AV Muk run Pain Split? Isn't Pain Split a Status Move?
Ledian has Iron Fist boosted Drain Punch as well as good Specially Defensive Bulk. Sorry, I just saw that and had to say something about it.
Shuckle with Assault Vest...345 Base Sp. Def...god, too bad he can't recover with it. Then again with Infestation it could come in and force any Special Attacker out and threaten to trap them. Then again Shuckle is gimmicky at best.

There's also Lopunny who (due to Klutz) can Switcheroo its Assault Vest onto opponents and render them incapable of using support moves. It could cripple quite a few walls this way. Its also the only Pokemon who can do it.

I didnt say it was running Pain Split on it's AV set. It cannot run a Non-Attacking move on it's AV sets. Check out the AV set in the [ hide ] box on the bottom of my previous set. I meant to say that Muk can potentially run Pain Split on standard Touncher set, as a semi-reliable form of recovery!

There is no reason to trick an assault vest when you can trick a Choice Scarf. As a wall, being locked into a single move is much more frightening than being forced to go on the offense (although often that is locking a wall into one move lol). Choice Scarf will also help you beat setup sweepers, something Assault Vest may aid if you switcheroo too slowly.

 

[Punchshroom]

Just a note, but Assault Vest users take special attacks substantially better if invested in Special Defense over HP, so unless you intend for it to take some physical moves, going max SDef might not be a bad idea. Since AV users do not have recovery outside of draining attacks, it won't really matter too much how well they can take a physical hit, and would probably prefer minimizing special attack damage instead. It's anyone's call, though.

 

[The Avalanches]

I think Articuno and Golbat will likely rise in usage, because they're probably the best users of Defog in the tier. The former is already really cool in itself and Defog it's going to make it a much better support Pokemon. Golbat has a bit of 4MSS but I'm pretty sure teams that dislike entry hazards can fit it into Golbat's moveset. It also really helps that both of them appreciate their own Defog support, get reliable recover, and are pretty fast too. Similarly, Spikes stacking teams are going to take a huge hit given that our best Spiker is leaving and the presence of Defog.

Some other minor things, like Tangela taking a hit without Sleep Powder hitting Grass-types, or Parasect being an even more worthless piece of ass. Butterfree isn't really affected much because it can still use Quiver Dance, and Grass-types aren't likely to switch into it anyway, plus it got a nice special attack raise, so yay.

Also, offense is going to be rampant even with the Defog buff because the best check to offensive teams ever, Kangaskhan, is leaving \o/ and stall becomes pretty difficult to run, what with Defog everywhere, and also based on my assumptions that Golbat usage will rise.

Also, Slurpuff sounds really interesting with Petaya berry, especially with priority becoming less of an issue thanks to Kangaskhan leaving and nobody having to give a hoot about Riolu anymore thanks to the new mechanics not allowing it to Copycat Roar (you can start crying in a hole Punchshroom). The only issue is probably Metang, whose Bullet Punch would take a chunk, but that can be easily remedied.

Without gems, Drifblim will have to rely on some weird Baton Pass set or Flare Boost set OR CM + ChestoRest set. It's certainly gonna be way less effective than it is currently, but I daresay Flare Boost isn't really terrible if the speed benchmark falls a bit. I can't really say for CM + ChestoRest right now, but probably fewer priority and the lack of Kangaskhan is a big boon for it.

Can't think of anymore, but these are the first things that came to mind so. And jw, what was changed about Chatot, Sawk, and Skuntank?

I disagree with Drifblim dropping in usage. It may have lost Flying Gem, but it gained Weakness Policy, and with a little support, it could become a potent mixed sweeper.

Drifblim @ Weakness Policy
Trait: Unburden
EVs: 244 Def / 252 SAtk / 12 Spe
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Shadow Ball
- Acrobatics
- Thunderbolt
- HP Ice/Fighting

 

[Blast]

Tbh Infestation is a pretty gimmicky strategy, I'd rather just go straight for the Poison Jab and poison everything which will leave a much more lasting mark on Muk's best switch-ins than Infestation. No one ever leaves in their Alomomola on Muk anyway so you're not really likely to get a successful trap off against a good player. AV Muk seems cool though.

I disagree with Drifblim dropping in usage. It may have lost Flying Gem, but it gained Weakness Policy, and with a little support, it could become a potent mixed sweeper.

Drifblim @ Weakness Policy
Trait: Unburden
EVs: 244 Def / 252 SAtk / 12 Spe
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Shadow Ball
- Acrobatics
- Thunderbolt
- HP Ice/Fighting

Weakness Policy is a lot harder to pull off than AcroGem because of how much less controlled it is; with AcroGem you just click Acrobatics whenever you wanted and be at +2 Speed immediately, while with Weakness Policy the opponent is in control of what they decide to hit you with, which pretty much leaves you at their mercy. Not to mention you're literally trying to get hit with a super effective attack which is just asking for trouble since Drifblim isn't even all that bulky.

Also @ Assault Vest: Eel in particular seems really cool as an AV user, especially with its main general strategy being to take a hit and fire one back. Regirock, Toad, Otter, Golurk, and Muk also look like they have potential though for Ludicolo I'd rather just use the standard Rain Dance set since it's not really that strong or fast without LO + rain. Skunk seems okay too though it does lose a lot of utility without Taunt or Defog and becomes a lot more vulnerable to status.

 

[The Avalanches]

Tbh Infestation is a pretty gimmicky strategy, I'd rather just go straight for the Poison Jab and poison everything which will leave a much more lasting mark on Muk's best switch-ins than Infestation. No one ever leaves in their Alomomola on Muk anyway so you're not really likely to get a successful trap off against a good player. AV Muk seems cool though.

Weakness Policy is a lot harder to pull off than AcroGem because of how much less controlled it is; with AcroGem you just click Acrobatics whenever you wanted and be at +2 Speed immediately, while with Weakness Policy the opponent is in control of what they decide to hit you with, which pretty much leaves you at their mercy. Not to mention you're literally trying to get hit with a super effective attack which is just asking for trouble since Drifblim isn't even all that bulky.

Also @ Assault Vest: Eel in particular seems really cool as an AV user, especially with its main general strategy being to take a hit and fire one back. Regirock, Toad, Otter, Golurk, and Muk also look like they have potential though for Ludicolo I'd rather just use the standard Rain Dance set since it's not really that strong or fast without LO + rain. Skunk seems okay too though it does lose a lot of utility without Taunt or Defog and becomes a lot more vulnerable to status.

It's an extremely gimmicky strategy, admittedly, but if you invest some EVs in Defense, you can switch in on a non-STAB hit - provided there aren't Stealth Rocks up - and carve teams apart.

 

[Brawlfest]

Just a note, but Assault Vest users take special attacks substantially better if invested in Special Defense over HP, so unless you intend for it to take some physical moves, going max SDef might not be a bad idea. Since AV users do not have recovery outside of draining attacks, it won't really matter too much how well they can take a physical hit, and would probably prefer minimizing special attack damage instead. It's anyone's call, though.

In all honesty, while you are trying to Epitomize your special bulk, I feel that in the end Assault Vest is an item made for Bulky Attackers. For that reason, you want mixed defenses, if you happen to be caught under fire on your weaker defense..But thats just me, idk about everybody else..

I disagree with Drifblim dropping in usage. It may have lost Flying Gem, but it gained Weakness Policy, and with a little support, it could become a potent mixed sweeper.

Drifblim @ Weakness Policy
Trait: Unburden
EVs: 244 Def / 252 SAtk / 12 Spe
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Shadow Ball
- Acrobatics
- Thunderbolt
- HP Ice/Fighting

It is an interesting set, but I do worry about getting Weakness Policy activated. By investing in bulk, you won't be speedy even after the unburden boost, leaving you revenge killed by opposing Scarfers such as E-Buzz. If invest too much in speed though, you will simply be OHKO'd by a super effective attack.

Instead, I would suggest something along the lines of SubPetaya or SubLiechi, as Drifblim can appreciate offensive boosts on both sides of the spectrum, and especially appreciates the Unburden boost. An example set might be:

Drifblim @ Petaya Berry
Ability: Unburden
EVs: 252 SAtk / 252 Spd / 4 SDef
Timid Nature
- Shadow Ball
- Destiny Bond / Calm Mind
- Thunderbolt
- Substitute

 

[Franklyna]

Franklyna
Good Idea! Why don't you slap Memento on there. This could act as an extremely good supporter, trapping any pokemon which cannot do much to your sweeper, then Memento'ing if you want to proceed to set up other pokemon. This could act as a great momentum gaining pokemon, as well as Utility support. Remember that Muk also gets Pain Split as a semi-reliable recovery move this generation, which could be extremely important to it's standard Touncher set, allowing it to stay around for a while. Speaking of Assault vests, a AV Muk isn't out of the question, with already good bulk, and pretty respectable offenses.

Thanks!
Ah, I forgot about Memento and Pain Split, but those are both useful moves for Muk to pack. I wonder about Pain Split, though, since Muk is so slow and also regularly carries Black Sludge for chip recovery every turn. It might not be worth the moveslot.

Tbh Infestation is a pretty gimmicky strategy, I'd rather just go straight for the Poison Jab and poison everything which will leave a much more lasting mark on Muk's best switch-ins than Infestation. No one ever leaves in their Alomomola on Muk anyway so you're not really likely to get a successful trap off against a good player. AV Muk seems cool though.

It is a gimmicky strategy, definitely (I think the only Pokemon who semi-regularly runs Infestation is Goodra because he's so bulky specially). But I do see some merit in using Muk as a trapper for support, stall, or cleric Pokemon.

 

[Punchshroom]

In all honesty, while you are trying to Epitomize your special bulk, I feel that in the end Assault Vest is an item made for Bulky Attackers. For that reason, you want mixed defenses, if you happen to be caught under fire on your weaker defense..But thats just me, idk about everybody else..


It is an interesting set, but I do worry about getting Weakness Policy activated. By investing in bulk, you won't be speedy even after the unburden boost, leaving you revenge killed by opposing such as E-Buzz. If invest too much in speed though, you will simply be OHKO'd by a super effective attack.

Instead, I would suggest something along the lines of SubPetaya or SubLiechi, as Drifblim can appreciate offensive boosts on both sides of the spectrum, and especially appreciates the Unburden boost. An example set might be:

Drifblim @ Petaya Berry
Ability: Unburden
EVs: 252 SAtk / 252 Spd / 4 SDef
Timid Nature
- Shadow Ball
- Destiny Bond / Calm Mind
- Thunderbolt
- Substitute

Like I said, it's anyone's call. It's just that it is proven Conkeldurr takes special hits much better with max SpD than with max HP (for reference, max damage against max SpD AV Conk is only slightly more than min damage against max HP AV Conk). Then again, Conkeldurr boasts a powerful Drain Punch, while the NU attackers have no such recovery so investing in HP isn't a bad choice either.

Weakness Policy Drifblims can activate WP via StockPile to weaken super effective hits. A +1 4 HP / 0 SpD Drifblim takes 72% maximum from Modest LO Samurott's Ice Beam, and you can bet there will be bulkier variants of Drifblim. WP Drifblim can not only sweep with +2 offenses (Phantom Force will be your likely Ghost STAB, but Shadow Ball also works), but also Baton Pass these boosts to some scary fast sweeper.

And then there is Calm Mind Drifblim, which I feel works better with Rest + Chesto Berry to start a sweep fresh and not fear status, rather than being near dead by the time Petaya activates.