We're not arguing that Vivillon is outclassed by Butterfree or Venemoth, we're arguing that there is little reason to use Vivillon in a competitive environment in the first place. I understand that a 91% accurate Hurricane is sweet, but Vivillon simply lacks the stat spread to back that up. It's still pretty weak. Against competent players, which is not the case in your logs, Vivillon will fall short because it's not even a hard threat to deal with, especially when you're leading with it. People use Venemoth in OU sometimes solely for its ability to effectively Baton Pass its Quiver Dance boosts, that's it. Vivillon's nearly accurate Hurricane shouldn't be the justification for it to get an analysis because it's bad in all other areas.
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XY OU Analysis Reservation Index - READ CAREFULLY (MAKING A NEW THREAD)
- Thread starter Jukain
- Start date
Exploud has been moved to Locked/Outdated Analyses due to inactivity. Take it away, folks.
Meinshao doesn't have an OU analysis?
I don't understand why, as Meinshao is even better than last gen.
252 Atk Life Orb Mienshao Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 248 HP / 8 Def Eviolite Dusclops: 143-169 (50.5 - 59.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Life Orb Mienshao Knock Off vs. 248 HP / 8 Def Dusclops: 143-169 (50.5 - 59.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
One of Meinshao's most annoying counters last gen. Doesn't counter anymore, and Meinshao can managa in 1 v 1 situation. Gets some HP back w/ regen.
252 Atk Life Orb Mienshao Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 182-216 (46.1 - 54.8%) -- 9% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Another one here, Knock off + U-Turn combined w/ SR damage leaves Slowbro with ~8% if U-Turn and Knock did MINIMUM damage. AND gets the HP back w/ regen.
Meinshao does not even need to Knock off Chansey or Porygon-2, as HJK does a clean KO without even reckless boost.
252 Atk Life Orb Mienshao Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Aegislash-Shield: 190-224 (58.6 - 69.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Life Orb Mienshao Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Chandelure: 294-346 (112.6 - 132.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Life Orb Mienshao Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Gengar: 406-478 (154.9 - 182.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Meinshao doesn't even need to worry about ghosts as much as last gen.
4 SpA Life Orb Mienshao Hidden Power Ice vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Gliscor: 276-328 (77.9 - 92.6%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
4 SpA Life Orb Mienshao Hidden Power Ice vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Landorus-T: 265-312 (69.3 - 81.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
This is always an accomplishment as these 2 pokemons get lured in very easily be Meinshao.
Sylveon and Mega Venusaur are the 2 pokemons that can check you, unless you were carrying Poison Jab then Sylveon wouldn't be a problem (~44% to KO after SR)
Meinshao also has an amazing speed tier of 105, outspeeding Garchomp, Landorus-I, Char Y, Char X, Mega Medicham, Kyurem-B, bulky Latias and much more things.
Meinshao resists SR, has Regen., and while it doesn't have the best defenses in the world, it can survive hits from walls or priority, combine that w/ LO it may seem a lot, but Regen. + U-Turn/hard switch will make up for that.
Not only that but Scarf/Band reckless Mienshao is a the bomb too ...
I think Meinshao deserves an OU analysis.
I don't understand why, as Meinshao is even better than last gen.
252 Atk Life Orb Mienshao Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 248 HP / 8 Def Eviolite Dusclops: 143-169 (50.5 - 59.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Life Orb Mienshao Knock Off vs. 248 HP / 8 Def Dusclops: 143-169 (50.5 - 59.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
One of Meinshao's most annoying counters last gen. Doesn't counter anymore, and Meinshao can managa in 1 v 1 situation. Gets some HP back w/ regen.
252 Atk Life Orb Mienshao Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 182-216 (46.1 - 54.8%) -- 9% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Another one here, Knock off + U-Turn combined w/ SR damage leaves Slowbro with ~8% if U-Turn and Knock did MINIMUM damage. AND gets the HP back w/ regen.
Meinshao does not even need to Knock off Chansey or Porygon-2, as HJK does a clean KO without even reckless boost.
252 Atk Life Orb Mienshao Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Aegislash-Shield: 190-224 (58.6 - 69.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Life Orb Mienshao Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Chandelure: 294-346 (112.6 - 132.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Life Orb Mienshao Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Gengar: 406-478 (154.9 - 182.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Meinshao doesn't even need to worry about ghosts as much as last gen.
4 SpA Life Orb Mienshao Hidden Power Ice vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Gliscor: 276-328 (77.9 - 92.6%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
4 SpA Life Orb Mienshao Hidden Power Ice vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Landorus-T: 265-312 (69.3 - 81.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
This is always an accomplishment as these 2 pokemons get lured in very easily be Meinshao.
Sylveon and Mega Venusaur are the 2 pokemons that can check you, unless you were carrying Poison Jab then Sylveon wouldn't be a problem (~44% to KO after SR)
Meinshao also has an amazing speed tier of 105, outspeeding Garchomp, Landorus-I, Char Y, Char X, Mega Medicham, Kyurem-B, bulky Latias and much more things.
Meinshao resists SR, has Regen., and while it doesn't have the best defenses in the world, it can survive hits from walls or priority, combine that w/ LO it may seem a lot, but Regen. + U-Turn/hard switch will make up for that.
Not only that but Scarf/Band reckless Mienshao is a the bomb too ...
I think Meinshao deserves an OU analysis.
This metagame is not good for mienshao as flying priority is everywhere and it just crumbles to talonflame and mega pinsir. Also the current mets is a lot bulkier than bw ou so it does not fit into it. Moreover the ever present aegislash makes sure that mienshao can not just spam hi jump kick. it also struggles against azumarill, another priority abuser.
just adding that some of the calcs there are inappropriate, such as the Dusclops calc: something which is nigh-unseen in the OU meta. Furthermore, Mienshao shouldn't be staying in on Aegislash in the first place as it is forced to use a contact move to deal any damage to it. Furthermore, so many more things can deal with Gliscor and Landorus-T better, and it isn't exactly difficult to KO Gengar and Chandelure as it is. I would say that I have to agree with indian in saying that it doesn't deserve an analysis.
Talonflame, Mega Pinsir, and Azumarill are the 3 main priority users that wreck meinshao.
But Talonflame cannot switch on Stone Edge, and Knock Off does 59.3 - 70.1% and HJK does 59.7 - 70.8%, Mega Pinsir and Pinsir get pooped on by Stone Edge on the switch-in, and HJK does 49.2 - 58.4% on regular pinsir on the switch-in.
Honestly finding a check is relatively easy, but a counter is where it really counts, Azumarill is a counter, true.
Aegislash takes 58.6 - 69.1% from Knock off on the switch and 39.1 - 46.6% without an item, since Shadow Sneak does not KO, double Knock Off should kill, even if he goes for the Shadow Ball, it does take some mind games to win over King Shield, but that goes for Aegislash too.
252 Atk Life Orb Mienshao High Jump Kick vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 510-603 (132.1 - 156.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Life Orb Mienshao High Jump Kick vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 712-842 (101.1 - 119.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Life Orb Mienshao High Jump Kick vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Blissey: 975-1149 (136.5 - 160.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Life Orb Mienshao High Jump Kick vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Rotom-W: 185-218 (60.8 - 71.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Life Orb burned Mienshao Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Rotom-W: 45-55 (14.8 - 18%) -- possible 8HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Life Orb burned Mienshao High Jump Kick vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Rotom-W: 92-109 (30.2 - 35.8%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
4 SpA Rotom-W Hydro Pump vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Mienshao: 186-220 (68.6 - 81.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after burn damage
252 Atk Life Orb Mienshao Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Deoxys-D: 177-211 (58.2 - 69.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Life Orb Mienshao U-turn vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Deoxys-D: 130-153 (42.7 - 50.3%) -- 1.2% chance to 2HKO
-1 252 Atk Life Orb Mienshao High Jump Kick vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Gyarados: 330-393 (99.3 - 118.3%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO
252 Atk Life Orb Mienshao High Jump Kick vs. 252 HP / 232+ Def Skarmory: 153-183 (45.8 - 54.7%) -- 97.7% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Life Orb Mienshao Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mandibuzz: 192-229 (45.2 - 54%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Life Orb Mienshao High Jump Kick vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Ferrothorn: 320-377 (90.9 - 107.1%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO
252 Atk Life Orb Mienshao Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 182-216 (46.1 - 54.8%) -- 9% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Life Orb Mienshao U-turn vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 133-156 (33.7 - 39.5%) -- 19.6% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
Mega Venusaur and Hippowdon are probably the only 2 viable walls that can completely wall this thing. Mega Venusaur is probably the only wall that can counter this thing.
Mienshao also checks a lot of pokemons that are priority-less and slower
252 Atk Life Orb Mienshao Stone Edge vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Charizard Y: 676-801 (226.8 - 268.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Life Orb Mienshao Stone Edge vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Charizard X: 252-299 (84.5 - 100.3%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO
252 Atk Life Orb Mienshao High Jump Kick vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Gyarados: 502-593 (151.2 - 178.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
-1 252 Atk Life Orb Mienshao High Jump Kick vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Gyarados: 330-393 (99.3 - 118.3%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO
252 Atk Life Orb Mienshao High Jump Kick vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Kyurem-B: 538-634 (137.2 - 161.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
As you can see, Mienshao is a great wall breaker with a fantastic speed tier, Life Orb + regen is extremely good and overall Mienshao is extremely versatile.
I definitely think it's OU viable.
It has been sitting there (gathering dust) so I will reserve Tornadus-Incarnate.
Also Azelf is awaiting its 2nd QC check [or 3rd rejection, Fuzznip please save Azelf :( ]
Also Azelf is awaiting its 2nd QC check [or 3rd rejection, Fuzznip please save Azelf :( ]
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Regarding Mienshao, I just think the metagame is far too unkind to it. It gets manhandled by so many of the top threats that it struggles to do well at all. As said, the ubiquity of Talonflame and Mega Pinsir really hurts it, since it will get wrecked by them most of the time, which is a problem when you consider that a lot of teams use those two. Aegislash also walls it pretty cold, and it loses to common Fairies like Clefable, Azumarill, and Sylveon in addition to Mega Venusaur. Its immense frailty certainly does not help it either. I guess you can say some of these counters can be beaten with the right move, but Mienshao definitely has 4MSS, which gets in its way. In addition to being wrecked by all these Pokemon, Mienshao is simply outclassed by the plethora of other Fighting-types available in OU; namely Conkeldurr, Terrakion, Keldeo, and to an extent Lucario and Infernape. It's just too hard to justify using Mienshao in OU.
Unfortunately, I'd say Mienshao simply lacks a viable niche in XY OU.
Unfortunately, I'd say Mienshao simply lacks a viable niche in XY OU.
About Tornadus-Incarnate, I can't get it up because my Verizon usage plan is almost all used up. If no one claims it by the 14th, I'll reserve it, but for now, Tornadus-Incarnate is up for grabs.
I'll write Tornadus.
I see that someone is going to write for Tornadus but it haven't been reserved yet so I want to request that I will write Tornadus
That means that they've reserved Tornadus. In fact, it already has its own thread here, so post there if you'd like to help.
My bad. I just thought that it wasn't justified until it was updated in this thread.
Shouldn't Slurpuff get an analysis? Sure it doesn't have the greatest stats in the world but it is the only Pokemon that gets Belly Drum and Unburden, which is definitely something to be proud of. Also, it can use a CM set with Weakness Policy, a CM set with Petaya Berry, and the Double Boostin' Groosin' Fairy Floss Knight w/ Weakness Policy, CM, and Cotton Guard.
And don't forget the DOUBLE SPEED BOOST from Unburden with no current Pokemon in OU gets.
Despite having average stats, Slurpuff has a lot to distinguish itself from other sweepers in OU including but not limited to: UNBURDEN in combination with either Belly Drum, Calm Mind, and Cotton Guard, a decent movepool, the useful Fairy typing, decent bulk, AND the fact that Slurpuff got an official XY Preview analysis that you can get to in 2 clicks from the home page.
Willing to provide replays and calcs if necessary.
And don't forget the DOUBLE SPEED BOOST from Unburden with no current Pokemon in OU gets.
Despite having average stats, Slurpuff has a lot to distinguish itself from other sweepers in OU including but not limited to: UNBURDEN in combination with either Belly Drum, Calm Mind, and Cotton Guard, a decent movepool, the useful Fairy typing, decent bulk, AND the fact that Slurpuff got an official XY Preview analysis that you can get to in 2 clicks from the home page.
Willing to provide replays and calcs if necessary.
Isn't Slurpuff beaten by like every steel type ever?
It has Flamethrower iirc
