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Other XY OU Viability Ranking Thread (V2) (Last update on post #5189)

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acestriker19 said:
(Sorry I'm bringing this back from a page ago)

As a Trick Room player myself and as someone who has used Gourgeist extensively it is very much outclassed by Cofagrigus. Cofagrigus can use mummy to nullify dangerous abilities such as pure power on the opposing pokemon stealing away momentum while setting up Trick Room. Here I'm gonna list the niches that Gourgeist-XL has:

1. Trick Room setter thats bulky and resists ground (complements a couple of ground weak TR sweepers better i.e. Mega Maw, Heatran and Tyranitar)
2. Can spin block Excadrill
3. ...Explosion I guess

And honestly none these are really that good except very rarely because the only time one would really be that desperate to spin block Excadrill is if you're running HO in which case its probably better to use Balloon Aegislash as for Gourgeist as a Trick Room setter: if you want a physically defensive ghost type setter go with Cofagrigus, if you want a physically bulky setter to take on ground types go with Cresselia, if you want a Trick Room Suicide lead go with Bronzong hell use Kecleon basically a Trick Room suicide lead is only worthwhile if it can get up rocks and set up Trick Room. I've used Gourgeist-XL a lot and it has a really, really tiny niche in the OU metagame a D-rank mon if I ever saw one, also its analysis was rejected so it should be moved anyways.
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Cofagrigus may be a more reliable TR setter with a more useful ability, but in terms of a lead TR setter there is no one with a niche like Gourgeist XL. Trick Room/Exposion/Destiny Bond Gourgeist XL is literally the only way you can a guaranteed free switch into your TR sweeper, and this is pretty huge for an offensive TR team IMO. I don't use it for bulky TR setting, I don't use it for spinblocking, I use it because it can set TR, kill the opposing lead, and give a powerful TR sweeper 3 turns of destruction.
 
I'd like to bring up the moving of Mega Aerodactyl from C- to B.
Here's a post I just made:
me said:
1.) Mega Aerodactyl is very useful, with a blazing fast 150 Speed, allowing it to run an Adamant nature. It is a fantastic revenge killer and late game sweeper. With an Adamant nature, it outspeeds 252+ base 71 Speed Pokemon such as Mega Tyranitar, who Mega Tyranitar stops a sweep. Mega Aerodactyl is the perfect Talonflame check, which is amazing for HO teams. It's also not a slouch defensively, it has access to great moves like Taunt, Roost, and Stealth Rock. Overall, Mega Aerodactyl is certainly a very underrated threat in the current OU metagame. 2.) Mega Aerodactyl can run either an Offensive or Defensive set, with a variety of options! Tough Claws makes Aerial Ace a usable move, giving Aerodactyl two STAB moves that get nice coverage. Offensive sets can be tough to deal with because Mega Aerodactyl is very fast and powerful, making it difficult for HO teams to handle sometimes. Defensive teams give it a bit more trouble, but Taunt shuts them down. Defensive sets are great as well, with access to Stealth Rock and Defog, it supports its team, and with just 44 Def EVs, it allows Mega Aerodactyl to check Talonflame perfectly. It also has access to Roost for longevity, so it's really great! The unpredictability and surprise of Mega Aerodactyl is just great! 3.) Mega Aerodactyl is weak to a lot of priority, such as Azumarill's Aqua Jet and Scizor's Bullet Punch. Bulky Water-types such as Slowbro, Suicune, and Rotom-W give it a lot of trouble, being able to effectively take it down with their STAB moves, while not being hit super effectively by any of Mega Aerodactyl's moves, not even Thunder Fang can hassle these Pokemon. Choice Scarf users give it problems, such include Keldeo, Garchomp, and Latios, however, none of these enjoy switching into it. Thunder Wave from Thundurus cripples it, as does Will-O-Wisp from Sableye also does the job. Also, taking up a Mega Evolution slot which could be used for something else is a kind-of disadvantage, but if you play Mega Aerodactyl correctly, it shouldn't be a problem! Finally, Stealth Rock is a problem, as it takes away 25% of Mega Aerodactyl's health just for switching in, thus requiring Defog support alongside it, unless it runs it itself, Roost mitigates this issue as well. 4.) First off, it has a base 150 Speed, which is blazing fast by any means. Secondly, base 135 Attack is nothing to scoff about, it hits decently hard. Aerodactyl has a cool typing, a unique one, which gives it an immunity to Ground-type moves, while also giving it nice resistances to common Flying-, Normal-, and Fire-type moves. Mega Aerodactyl also has above average bulk, with 80 / 85 / 95 defenses, it take a few neutral hits and retaliate back. Mega Aerodactyl has a very expansive movepool as well, so that's a cool advantage over other Pokemon. Also, gaining a SpD boost in Sand is always nice, thanks to the Rock-typing. Overall, Mega Aerodactyl has very many pros, along with a few cons, but it certainly has enough to warrant use over other Pokemon. 5.) Mega Aerodactyl's great niche is, as mentioned many times before, its blazing fast 150 base Speed! With access to this, alongside many coverage options and defensive capabilities, it's really great. It has a very useful niche in being able to revenge kill many Pokemon because of this and it can hit very many Pokemon super effectively. Also, Defog + Stealth Rock is really cool, so you can always use that as a niche. Basically, being an offensive Pokemon with wide coverage, high speed and power, nice defenses, and recovery is about as good as it gets. It fits really well on HO teams to beat stuff such as Greninja and Talonflame, which often give HO struggles. Mega Aerodactyl is a really great Pokemon who is not seen as often as it should! 6.) Mega Aerodactyl might be outclassed in the regards of being a Mega, which could be used for other Pokemon your team needs, such as Mega Charizard or Mega Gyarados, both equally as large threats. However if you are using Mega Aerodactyl, your team will love using it. It provides a lot to teams like offensive pressure and Stealth Rock. Mega Aerodactyl is definitely worth the team slot, it certainly is. Overall, Mega Aerodactyl is a very powerful Pokemon with both an offensive and a defensive presence, so watch out if you run into one! I am enjoying it very much in my current adventures, and I hope you guys try it out too! Here's my current set I'm playing with, in case you are interested:
Aerodactyl @ Aerodactylite
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 212 Atk / 44 Def / 252 Spd
Adamant Nature
- Stone Edge
- Ice Fang
- Earthquake
- Aerial Ace
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And another I like very much:

Vertex said:
I'd like to see this thing moved up to B Rank. It has simply all the tools it needs in its movepool to threaten the majority of the metagame. Both MZard are demolished by Stone Edge. Aegislash has to be wary about switching on in Earthquake and weakened ones lose. Deoxys-D can set up multiple hazards but the last slot might have Defog (also takes away the threat of Bisharp sweeping your team because no one expects Defog on it) which makes Mega Aerodactyl so unpredictable. Landorus-I is OHKOed y Aqua Tail and Ice Fang. Thundurus-I can't switch in on Stone Edge or Ice Fang. That's 5/7 S Rank PKMN that are getting threatened by Mega Aerodactyl. It is a complete check to Mega Charizard Y, Excadrill, Greninja (HO teams struggle against this), Keldeo, Mega Pinsir, Talonflame (44 Def is perfect check), weakened Mega Tyranitar, and Garchomp. That is like more than half of A+ Rank. MDactyl also beats Mega Mawile and Bisharp that haven't been boosted. The former will have to be sufficiently weakened but that's not hard because it fits so easily in DeoSharp core. Outside of that, it also checks other fairly common 'mons like Latios, Dragonite, Landorus-T, Mega Venusaur, and Mega Medicham.

I hate it when I here people saying that Mega Aerodactyl is not good because it struggles against stall teams. This is not true - Hippowdon, the aforementioned Mega Venusaur, Mega Scizor, Ferrothorn, Heatran, Chesnaught, Amoonguss, bulky Talonflame, Mandibuzz, Mega Charizard X, and Landorus-T are all commonly found on [semi]stall teams, and they all lose to probably the best set: Stone Edge / Fire Fang / Aqua Tail / Aerial Ace. It can even shut down Clefable and Chansey with Taunt over Aerial Ace in the last slot which has been seeing surprise usage.

It's very powerful because it can run and Adamant Nature due to its blazing fast 150 Base Spe. It has Tough Claws to boost its coverage and Stone Edge hits hard. It is ridiculous how many threats this thing covers in one package as a revenge killer while also stopping BirdSPAM teams and posing a threat to stall teams. The main problems is that it's somewhat frail, takes up your Mega Slot, and faces competition with Deoxys-S as a revenge killer, but they are still very different. Easy B Rank

Oh crap; I forgot. Gary2346 always puts rank ups 1 rank below what they are nominated for and I said B so he'll put it in B- because that's his style. I nominate this for B+ so this can go to B Rank. ;)
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Mega Aerodactyl is certainly a large threat and it doesn't belong with shit like Goodra, it definitely belongs up in B Rank.
 
Breloom's rank is now an A-. Finally he's getting the recognition he deserves. The focus sash set really works and is what enables Breloom to stand up to his checks like Talonflame and Charizard. No serious player should be using Toxic Heal over Technician sets, the former is rubbish and Breloom is too frail to run an effective stall set.

It perplexes me that people say Mega Alakazam is inferior to regular Alakazam but Megazam is a rank above non-Megazam. I'm also curiojs about Hawlucha's C- rank. Why is it that Hawlucha is banned from UU if it's not very viable in OU?
 
Zibbity said:
Breloom's rank is now an A-. Finally he's getting the recognition he deserves. The focus sash set really works and is what enables Breloom to stand up to his checks like Talonflame and Charizard. No serious player should be using Toxic Heal over Technician sets, the former is rubbish and Breloom is too frail to run an effective stall set.

It perplexes me that people say Mega Alakazam is inferior to regular Alakazam but Megazam is a rank above non-Megazam. I'm also curiojs about Hawlucha's C- rank. Why is it that Hawlucha is banned from UU if it's not very viable in OU?
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Because bans are based on the UU metagame and what's broken in UU, not OU.
 
Oddish is the best said:
Because bans are based on the UU metagame and what's broken in UU, not OU.
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I agree it was broken in UU as I have used it myself. After a couple of swords dances and Unburden activated, it sweeps almost everything in the Tier except for Slowbro. In OU Hawlucha isn't used a whole lot obviously. So then can I get a vivid definition of the OU Metagame as opposed to the UU metagame? I've asked for this in the Showdown chatrooms and get conflicting answers on what the meta is.
 
Zibbity said:
I agree it was broken in UU as I have used it myself. After a couple of swords dances and Unburden activated, it sweeps almost everything in the Tier except for Slowbro. In OU Hawlucha isn't used a whole lot obviously. So then can I get a vivid definition of the OU Metagame as opposed to the UU metagame? I've asked for this in the Showdown chatrooms and get conflicting answers on what the meta is.
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The main reason Hawlucha can't function in OU, is due to the presence of Aeiglash which completely walls it, and the fact that priority, notably from Talonflame and Mega-Pinsir, is everywhere which prevents Hawlucha from sweeping. Thundurus' thunder wave also prevents a clean sweep.

UU is less bulky than OU and lacks Aegislash, Talonflame, Thundurus, and Mega-Pinsir. These factors allowed Hawlucha to be as good as it was there.
 
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Hawlucha really sucks but it isn't 100% walled:
+2 252+ Atk Hawlucha Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Aegislash-Shield: 110-129 (41.9 - 49.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and 1 layer of Spikes
I mean, this is just Life Orb sets, of course it is not reliable, but it isn't the hardest to break down with a bit of prior damage. But yeah, don't use Hawlucha.
 
Chesnaught said:
Hawlucha really sucks but it isn't 100% walled:
+2 252+ Atk Hawlucha Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Aegislash-Shield: 110-129 (41.9 - 49.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and 1 layer of Spikes
I mean, this is just Life Orb sets, of course it is not reliable, but it isn't the hardest to break down with a bit of prior damage. But yeah, don't use Hawlucha.
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What kind of Aegislash is only running 4 HP? Isn't standard 252 HP?
 
Zibbity said:
It perplexes me that people say Mega Alakazam is inferior to regular Alakazam but Megazam is a rank above non-Megazam.
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Do you remember what people said in early XY?

Goodra is the most amazing special wall ever made.

Terrakion and Keldeo are dead, they no longer belong in OU.

Mega Gyarados is pointless, all those weakness make it just a worse Gyarados.

I can see Yveltal being possibly balanced into OU (yes there was a fair amount of people arguing that)

Mega Alakazam vs Alakazam is the same thing, the difference is just that people still think that MegaKazam is worse(the same can be said from Goodra and to a lesser extent Gyarados though). Focus Sash Alakazam is a crappy revengekiller in a bulky metagame like this, priority plague it even more than Mega Alakazam and it works only one time as a revengekiller, unlike Talonflame, Deoxys-Speed and even Choice Scarfers such as Garchomp, Excadrill and Terrakion. Mega Alakazam is much better because it has the same power of Life Orb Alakazam, but is faster, so fast it can revengekill even, Greninja +1 Jolly Mega Tyranitar and Adamant Gyarados, something that regular Kazam can only dream of. It can even revengekill swift swimmers and sand rushers for christ sake. Trace also has defensive benefits that make easier to switch for such a frail Pokémon like MegaKazam, such as tracing Flash Fire, Volt Absorb, Unaware(you can deal with the almighty Calm Mind Clefable thanks to this), Thick Fat, Intimidate, Water Absorb, Regenerator, Natural Cure and such, non to mention the offensive benefits such as tracing Sheer Force, Adaptability, Mold Breaker, Speed Boost or Protean.

Overall Trace is awesome and the only reason why MegaZam isn't A - Rank is because of competition with Deoxys-S, weakness to DeoSharp and huge opportunity cost(the inability of running another mega evolution).
 
Is Mega Heracross still as viable as it was a month ago? Or is it now overrated? (Or, alternately, now that FlySpam is no longer in vogue, is it now more viable?)
 
Finally i am back, got new pc so will be able to mod and organize this thread again. Thx a lot to Gary and the mods that helped update the thread and gave it some direction during my absence!

Updated the list with the latest changes from Gary's thread. Also, added links for every ranked Pokemon's analysis and removed Darmanitan, which lost its niche of a powerful cleaner and wallbreaker on sun teams, as sun teams are not viable anymore, so there is no reason to use Darmanitan anymore.

Snotjoch said:
Why are we even ranking the Pokemon with a rejected analysis. It fills up the ranking which is already big enough by itself and Jirachi only really has to be ranked mostly because it used to be good. Seriously the fact that they are rejected means they are not good but putting them in the viability ranking contradicts that.
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It just means that the standard for something getting ranked in the viability ranking list is lower than the standard of something getting an analysis. A Pokemon can still have a big enough niche to be in D rank, but not big enough to get an analysis.

As for subjects to discuss, i would like to hear some opinions about whether Jirachi deserves or not to be ranked, as i just can't see what Jirachi can do effectively in OU and i don't think it needs to be ranked at all.

It would also be good to discuss some of the many C+ Pokemon that are a bit higher than they should, such as Celebi, Goodra, and Kyurem.

Finally, we should discuss about bumping up some ranks the major components of full Baton Pass teams. Full Baton Pass teams are considered broken my many, and even the council acknowledges there is a problem with them and is trying to come up with a solution, so it's only fair to give a bit more credit to the Pokemon that are used in those teams, especially Espeon. If Politoed is in B+ because it makes rain HO viable, then Espeon deserves to be A- at the very least for making Baton Pass teams viable and a way more dangerous playstyle than rain HO if you don't have the few very specific answers needed to deal with Baton Pass teams.
 
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alexwolf said:
Finally i am back, got new pc so will be able to mod this thread again. Thx a lot to Gary and the mods that helped update the thread and gave it some direction during my absence!

Updated the list with the latest changes from Gary's thread. Also, added links for every ranked Pokemon's analysis and removed Darmanitan, which lost its niche of a powerful cleaner and wallbreaker on sun teams, as sun teams are not viable anymore, so there is no reason to use Darmanitan.

It just means that the standard for something getting ranked in the viability ranking list is lower than the standard of something getting an analysis. A Pokemon can still have a big enough niche to be in D rank, but not big enough to get an analysis.

As for subjects to discuss, i would like to hear some opinions about whether Jirachi deserves or not to be ranked, as i just can't see what Jirachi can do effectively in OU and i don't think it needs to be ranked at all.

It would also be good to discuss some of the many C+ Pokemon that are a bit too higher than they should, such as Celebi, Goodra, and Kyurem.

Finally, we should discuss about bumping up some ranks the major components of full Baton Pass teams. Full Baton Pass teams are considered broken my many, and even the council acknowledges there is a problem with them and is trying to come up with a solution, so it's only fair to give a bit more credit to the Pokemon that are used in those teams, especially Espeon. If Politoed is in B+ because it makes rain HO viable, then Espeon deserves to be A- at the very least for making Baton Pass teams viable and a way more dangerous playstyle than rain HO if you don't have the few very specific answers needed to deal with Baton Pass teams.
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Jirachi is fucked by Bisharp, Aegislash, Excadrill, Garchomp, Charizard, Talonflame, Gengar, Mawile, Landorus-I, Thundurus, and probably some other things I can't think of at the moment.

Drop it.
 
Jukain said:
lol nobody uses this
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I was under the impression the Crumbler was the main Aegislash set, at least that's what I've seen people talking... a few weeks ago?

Did the metagame change so much that the crumbler set went from "most common Aegislash" to "lol nobody uses that" in less than a month?

And by cumbler I mean, King's Shield + 3 Attacks, with 252 Atk, 252+ SpAtk, 4HP.
 
alexwolf said:
Finally, we should discuss about bumping up some ranks the major components of full Baton Pass teams. Full Baton Pass teams are considered broken my many, and even the council acknowledges there is a problem with them and is trying to come up with a solution, so it's only fair to give a bit more credit to the Pokemon that are used in those teams, especially Espeon. If Politoed is in B+ because it makes rain HO viable, then Espeon deserves to be A- at the very least for making Baton Pass teams viable and a way more dangerous playstyle than rain HO if you don't have the few very specific answers needed to deal with Baton Pass teams.
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Well, the council has been debating it for over two weeks, so I think they are not going to take much longer to nerf it... are they? I mean, how long can 5 guys in a private forum take to decide one single thing?

So my point is, is it really worth spending time ranking the bp mon if there's a high chance they might lose their viability this week?
 
Ninja Charizard said:
I was under the impression the Crumbler was the main Aegislash set, at least that's what I've seen people talking... a few weeks ago?

Did the metagame change so much that the crumbler set went from "most common Aegislash" to "lol nobody uses that" in less than a month?

And by cumbler I mean, King's Shield + 3 Attacks, with 252 Atk, 252+ SpAtk, 4HP.
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It was never the most common set. Most common set is max HP Tank and has been, then SubToxic. There's basically 1 other usable set and that's LO with 4 HP and max+ Speed but that's rare and usually inferior.

I don't give a shit about some garbage SD set.
 
Non-max HP Aegislash was never the best set because it loses the bulk that makes it such an amazing switch into so many Pokemon in exchange for what? A slightly more powerful Shadow Sneak? The only set I would ever run without max HP would be the 252 SAtk 252 Spe Naive Aegidlash with Secret Sword to lure and OHKO Bisharp, and even that is pretty niche.

Ninja'd by Jukain
 
Jukain said:
It was never the most common set. Most common set is max HP Tank and has been, then SubToxic. There's basically 1 other usable set and that's LO with 4 HP and max+ Speed but that's rare and usually inferior.

I don't give a shit about some garbage SD set.
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I'm seeing a big change of tone here, it has not been long ago that people were all singing praises for the wonders of the crumbler set (I even remember seeing it in the OU analysis thread), and now it's not even usable?

What gives? Have I entered a parallel reality or something?
 
alexwolf said:
As for subjects to discuss, i would like to hear some opinions about whether Jirachi deserves or not to be ranked, as i just can't see what Jirachi can do effectively in OU and i don't think it needs to be ranked at all.

It would also be good to discuss some of the many C+ Pokemon that are a bit too higher than they should, such as Celebi, Goodra, and Kyurem.

Finally, we should discuss about bumping up some ranks the major components of full Baton Pass teams. Full Baton Pass teams are considered broken my many, and even the council acknowledges there is a problem with them and is trying to come up with a solution, so it's only fair to give a bit more credit to the Pokemon that are used in those teams, especially Espeon. If Politoed is in B+ because it makes rain HO viable, then Espeon deserves to be A- at the very least for making Baton Pass teams viable and a way more dangerous playstyle than rain HO if you don't have the few very specific answers needed to deal with Baton Pass teams.
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Yeah, Jirachi deserves to be ranked. It still has that enormous movepool, Serene Grace and many resistances, despite gaining weaknesses to Ghost and Dark. On top of that, Jirachi has a niche: it counters Baton Pass teams with Choice Specs Doom Desire. I think it should actually go up to C.

Celebi and Goodra can go rot in D, Celebi is horribly outclassed by Mega Vensuaur while Goodra can't heal itself if it chooses to be specially bulky (assault vest anyone?) and is outclassed by Latios as a special nuke.

Kyurem can stay C+. It is outclassed by K-B but it does have slightly higher Special Attack and can run a SubRoost set much more effectively.
 
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