Other XY OU Viability Ranking Thread (V3) (Rank changes are over until ORAS)

[QueenOfHax]

I disagree with Kyu-B being moved down to B+, in fact I'd argue that it should be moved up to A since it can threaten almost everything in S, A+ and A ranks.
It's also the best answer in OU to the most common defensive cores as it walks all over the likes of Rotom-W, Heatran, Lando-T, Gliscor, Skarmory and M-Venusaur.

 

[alexwolf]

The thing with Talonflame is that it lacks effective counters that can stay healthy until late-game and deal with the plethora of sets it can run. A ton of its checks and counters are absolutely crippled by WoW, such as Landorus-T, Tyranitar, Hippowdon, bulky Rocky Helmet Garchomp, and Mega Aerodactyl, while other checks such as Rotom-W and Mega Manectric become very easy to wear down when burned because they lack reliable recovery. Brave Bird / Flare Blitz / Will-O-Wisp / Roost is one of Talon's best sets anyway, and outside of Heatran, Alomomola, and Slowbro, not much can safely switch into it. The only reason why Talonflame sometimes has a hard time outlasting its checks is because of its huge SR weakness, but if you see that the opponent's checks to Talonflame can be worn down by WoW, then you should have the means of keeping SR off the field long enough for Talon to clean up, even if it means making sacrifices. In general, it's amazing how a Pokemon with such shallow movepool has so much versatility, which is one of the main factors that make Talonflame deserving to be in A+. Here are the effective sets Talonflame can run:

- Choice Band
- dual STABs + Roost / U-turn + WoW / U-turn
- SD + dual STABs + Roost / Natural Gift
- BU + BB + Roost + Taunt / WoW
- Taunt + BB + Roost + WoW

That's five different sets, some of which also have big variations between their moves. For example, Rotom-W can counter the SD set with Roost but not the SD set with Liechi Berry. SpD Heatran can counter the BU set with WoW, but not the BU set with Taunt. Landorus-T and bulky Tyranitar counter the BU + Taunt set but not the BU + WoW set. And of course many of those sets beat major ''universal'' counters to Talonflame, with BU + Taunt beating Heatran and SD + Liechi Berry beating Rotom-W for example, leaving only Slowbro as the 100% universal counter to Talonflame. This makes dealing with Talonflame reliably much more difficult than it seems in theory.

 

[Celticpride]

I haven't used defensive Talon at all, but it should remain A+ because it is either the best or second best revenge killer in the tier (Mega Zam does better against Weather teams, as their boosters are mostly Rock and Steel types). Only a handful of boosting sweepers resist BB, and the only two that spring to mind (excuse me if i forgot someone) are Mega Tyranitar and Mega Amphy. Also, most of its big checks and counters share common weaknesses, making it easy for teammates with strong Water and Ground attacks to wear them down. Granted, somethings do give it a lot of problems, notably Manectric, Washtom and Aerodactyl. Still, Adamant CB Brave Bird is one of the few things that can pick off a +2 Char-X or Mega Gyarados, and when combined with the defensive sets (which are a pain to face on offense) makes it firmly A+ material. Talon stays in A+.

 

[Numera]

Cresselia is weak to Knock Off, which sucks. Other than that, it's one of the bulkiest mons in OU. I really don't have much info on it sadly.

Why is Weavile thought as A rank? The only good stats in it are Speed and attack, and it dies OT Priority. Scizor basically counters it, along with Mach Punch Breloom possibly checking it. It is outclassed by some mons, most notably Greninja, but I don't think it's bad at all. It does NOT deserve a rank higher than B+
Also TerrorDave Aerodactyl and Zam are great but lack good defenses. Scizor checks Aerodactyl (unless Fire Fang) and checks/counters Zam. Weavile also checks Aerodactyl and Zam, same with Ferrothorn and etc.

Greninja lacks good defences, and it's A+. An offensive Pokemon, especially a cleaner, doesn't need to have good defences. Does it stop it from preforming it's job? NO. Weavile? Do you realize that both of those Pokemon can outspeed and simply OHKO? Focus Blast anyone? ANYONE?

I don't think you understand. A CLEANER is going to be ranked on how well it CLEANS how many Pokemon it can successfully check and how many hard counters it has to increase it's chance of cleanup sweeping. The pair of them check a shit ton of the metagame, don't have too many hard counters (Mega Aero is scary because it doesn't have 4MMs, just a shit ton of options like the fire fang ice fang debate that take out some otherwise had counters, making actually dealing with this thing fairly hard, as counters differ depending on the deciced moveset.) and hit so damn hard that cleaning up/sweeping offensive teams isn't too difficult. It's not even funny how much of a jerk the pair of these Pokemon are to offence. To be perfectly honest, each of these Pokemon matches up well vs many playstyles. Megazam can destroy sand thanks to goddamn trace, and Aero fairs damn well vs it too. While Mega Aero doesn't, with Swift Swim all over the place Megazam actually does do quite well against rain, cleans it up fairly well if you can trace Swift Swim. Offence is ravaged by both, defensive teams dislike taunt from Megazam and how easily Aero cleans it up, balanced is a mixed bag. Due to exellent cleaning capabilities and fantastic machups with most of the metagame, the pair of them should move up to A-. It's Thundurus's Twave and AV Azumarill, the two best mons in the tier, being fair ways to stop these things that make them unable to go any higher imo.

 

[DoABarrelRoll]

The biggest problem with Weavile is that it suffers a lot of competition for Greninja, who is a lot harder to switch into for both offensive an defensive teams. Besides, a lot of the stuff that switches into Greninja (Azu, Clef, Ferro) also switches into Weavile, and unlike it, Greninja can get past a lot of these swicthins (and no, Weavile can't get past Ferro at all lol, Low Kick does around 50% which easily lets it live after 2 turns of Leftovers recovery, and Knock Off followed by Low Kick cannot 2HKO it). Weavile is also stopped by a few common Pokemon on offense such as Keldeo. It's kinda hard to justify using it over Greninja overall, and even though one hits from the physical side and the other from the special side, that doesn't really matter since they basically do the same thing, it's just that Greninja usually does it better. Weavile's moves just don't pack that much power when compared to Greninja. I've actually tried the sash SD set to see if it was actually good, but it was really underwhelming due to how many things freely swicth into Weavile, how it isn't even that powerful at +1, and the 4MSS this set suffers from.

However, Weavile has 3 things that set it apart from Greninja. The first one is that it's just simply faster. Not only is it able to outspeed Greninja, which is really crucial, but it also outspeeds stuff like Scarf Heatran. The second one is priority. Ice Shard enables Weavile to revenge kill fast scarfers which are a big problem for Greninja. This is especially convenient given that arguably the 2 most relevant scarfers, Lando-T and Garchomp, are 4x weak to Ice (though Lando-T actually has a chance to live Ice Shard after facotring in Intimidate, and Chomp has a very small chance to survive too). And finally, Weavile has Pursuit. Weavile has the fastest STAB Pursuit in the game, which is a pretty solid niche, and lets it do some pretty neat stuff like switch in on Lati Psyshock or Greninja ESensory and remove them completely. Unfortunately, Pursuit is kinda hard to fit. Knock Off and Low Kick are pretty much mandatory, so you get to chosse between priority and a semi-powerful Ice STAB

Weavile is nowhere near A, but I think it may be worth putting it in B. It shouldn't really go any higher than B though IMO, it's still to easy to switch into for something this offensive.

Are you seriously comparing Weavile to Greninja? They don't really do the same thing, Weavile is first of all an utility Pokemon, trapping Lati@s, Jirachi, Celebi, Starmie and other things weak to Dark, revenge killing +1 Dragonite and Choice Scarf Garchomp/Landorus-T and discouraging a ton of walls from switching in due to Knock Off. Azumarill might lose its Assault Vest or Choice Band, Keldeo its Choice Specs, Clefable its Lefties and so on. If its counters are weakened or eliminated (such as Keldeo and Mega Scizor), then Weavile can clean offense teams rather easily. Also Weavile doesn't need to rely on 80% accurate moves.

Greninja lacks good defences, and it's A+. An offensive Pokemon, especially a cleaner, doesn't need to have good defences. Does it stop it from preforming it's job? NO. Weavile? Do you realize that both of those Pokemon can outspeed and simply OHKO? Focus Blast anyone? ANYONE?

Weavile outspeeds most Aerodactyl and every Alakazam provided they didn't get the chance to go mega. They mostly run Adamant/Modest. Also, Ice Shard can eliminate Mega Aero with a bit of prior damage and Mega Zam needs to rely on Focus Shit

 

[RichieTheGarchomp]

Greninja lacks good defences, and it's A+. An offensive Pokemon, especially a cleaner, doesn't need to have good defences. Does it stop it from preforming it's job? NO. Weavile? Do you realize that both of those Pokemon can outspeed and simply OHKO? Focus Blast anyone? ANYONE?

I don't think you understand. A CLEANER is going to be ranked on how well it CLEANS how many Pokemon it can successfully check and how many hard counters it has to increase it's chance of cleanup sweeping. The pair of them check a shit ton of the metagame, don't have too many hard counters (Mega Aero is scary because it doesn't have 4MMs, just a shit ton of options like the fire fang ice fang debate that take out some otherwise had counters, making actually dealing with this thing fairly hard, as counters differ depending on the deciced moveset.) and hit so damn hard that cleaning up/sweeping offensive teams isn't too difficult. It's not even funny how much of a jerk the pair of these Pokemon are to offence. To be perfectly honest, each of these Pokemon matches up well vs many playstyles. Megazam can destroy sand thanks to goddamn trace, and Aero fairs damn well vs it too. While Mega Aero doesn't, with Swift Swim all over the place Megazam actually does do quite well against rain, cleans it up fairly well if you can trace Swift Swim. Offence is ravaged by both, defensive teams dislike taunt from Megazam and how easily Aero cleans it up, balanced is a mixed bag. Due to exellent cleaning capabilities and fantastic machups with most of the metagame, the pair of them should move up to A-. It's Thundurus's Twave and AV Azumarill, the two best mons in the tier, being fair ways to stop these things that make them unable to go any higher imo.

Something you don't understand is that Scizor does NOT counter Greninja (Who basically fucks over Aerodactyl and Zam) because Bullet Punch won't KO it and it runs HP Fire. I honestly don't know why Gren is an A+ mon: although its probably because I run a scarfmon on every team.
Notice the best OU mon right now: Azumarill. It has many sets, GREAT Attack, and decent bulk. Azumarill is the best sweeper in OU cause it can KO threats like basically any Ground type and Fighting type. Also, I love Aerodactyl; its just not a pokemon you lead with or safely switch into; with Zam facing the same thing except it can work as a lead. The worst part about Dactyl is it is weak to Bullet Punch, if it wasn't it would be an A- mon no doubt. Honestly, I can see Zam moving up to A- but thats it. I will be agreeing with you, but Aerodactyl is not an A- mon.

 

[Numera]

Something you don't understand is that Scizor does NOT counter Greninja (Who basically fucks over Aerodactyl and Zam) because Bullet Punch won't KO it and it runs HP Fire. I honestly don't know why Gren is an A+ mon: although its probably because I run a scarfmon on every team.
Notice the best OU mon right now: Azumarill. It has many sets, GREAT Attack, and decent bulk. Azumarill is the best sweeper in OU cause it can KO threats like basically any Ground type and Fighting type. Also, I love Aerodactyl; its just not a pokemon you lead with or safely switch into; with Zam facing the same thing except it can work as a lead. The worst part about Dactyl is it is weak to Bullet Punch, if it wasn't it would be an A- mon no doubt. Honestly, I can see Zam moving up to A- but thats it. I will be agreeing with you, but Aerodactyl is not an A- mon.

I know Scizor doesn't counter Greninja. That had nothing to do with my argument. I was merely saying why does being frail matter on such an offensive mon.

Bullet Punch won't stop Mega Aero being A-. If you want to use that logic then it should REALLY be Aqua Jet that stops it from A-. Regardless... that's going to be the only thing keeping it out of A for me, and it can still be A-. Why's that? Because Breloom, Excadrill, ect. Are those things weak to common priority? YES. Are they at least A-? YES. In other words: Being weak to common priority (well tbh it DOES resist Brave Bird) Is just one of Mega Aero's flaws.

"A Rank: Reserved for Pokemon that are fantastic in the OU metagame, and can sweep, support, or wall significant portions of the metagame. These Pokemon require less support than most others to be used effectively and have few flaws that can easily be compensated for when compared to their positive traits."

Absolutely. It's just one of it's few flaws. It's not like a B rank mon where it has a fair amount of notable flaws: It's flaws (weakness to some common priority and how frail it is) are indeed compensated by it's notable speed, ability to fuck Sand Offence and most offensive teams in general, partnering well with some titans of the game, resisting priority Brave Bird and it's cleaning ability.
.
I understand the base forms are checked by Weavile, DoABarrelRoll, but the Mega forms (well MAero takes a lot from Ice Shard so maybe not lol) are not. Focus Blast is stopping Weavile from being a reliable check, you can't exactly just say it's a reliable check when it has to rely on a miss. Anyway, why would it matter if they are checked by a Pokemon like Weavile (who should be no higher than B)?

 

[Kurona]

I also wouldn't say MegaAero is as frail as it's made out to be; it has 80/85/95 defences and it can even get it's special defence boosted by Sand Offence. Not to mention it's immunity to Ground and resistances to Fire and Flying... it's nowhere near being a wall but it can definitely take a neutral hit or two and absolutely destroy Talonflame.

 

[Adamant Zoroark]

My Suggestion
Clefable to S -Clefable can be problem in many ways it can some times Set stealth rock or act as wish passer or even sweep with Calm Mind or stall with Cosmic Power
Magnezone to -A Magnezone is great pokemon as it has become famous with Drag Mag Core and also mega pinsir + Magnezone + Landerous Therein offense Core. it can also trap Steel Pokémon because of its ability.
Talonflame to A I think Talonflame is being Overrated just because of its ability and Stab Moves It has Bad Stats But even though it has nice Ability and Stab Moves it does not deserves A+
Scolipede to -B Since it is part of Baton pass users after its Ban probably less people will be using it even without Baton pass team it can serve great as Life Orb attacker And before Getting it can Baton pass the speed to any other pokemon it can be usefull but it does not deserves B
Volcarona to +C Volcarona is very Good bulky Specail attacker it can abuse its Bulk with its move Quiver Dance it can easily Sweep it can sometimes use Rain Team
Kyurem-Black to +B Kyurem black is not Good as it has many weakness and it does have Decent Speed with is 95 and it is good but due to so many weakness it cant be at A-
Alakazam to -A Alakazam mega is very good it is having 175 special attack with is so much enough to kill a pokemon and speed of 150 stats it can easily Sweep with its Power but unfortunately it has very weak Physical defence still it is very fast it can kill before you even move


Edit Sorry I forgot

I'd like to focus on Kyurem-B specifically; I'd talk about Talonflame too, but it's been discussed already as to why it should stay A+. I've only used Kyurem-B a little bit, but B+ is just too low for it.

Tyranitar has many weaknesses too; that didn't stop it from being S-rank in BW. Or, for a better comparison, Keldeo has the same number of weaknesses as Kyurem-B (5) and it's still S-rank. Having "many weakness" (nice grammar, dude) does not stop a Pokemon from being good.

Kyurem-B is one of the few effective wallbreakers that does not use up a Mega slot, so if you wanna bring up "But Mega Heracross is a better wallbreaker," that won't fly. Yes, Mega Heracross gets the job done better, but it also uses your Mega slot. What if you wanna run Mega Manectric instead? Or maybe you wanna use Mega Scizor, Mega Tyranitar, Mega Aerodactyl, Mega Alakazam, or whatever else.

Kyurem-B's sky-high 170 base Attack stat is the highest of any non-Uber, non-Mega Pokemon, and to put that into perspective: That means it has 376 Attack uninvested. With an Attack stat needing minimal investment, you can afford to invest in Special Attack, making you hit hard no matter what side of the spectrum you're hitting on. But other than that, it can run a specially-biased Mixed set or a physically-biased Mixed set. Need Physical walls weakened more? Run the specially-biased one. Need Special walls weakened more? Run the physically-biased one. You can also run so many more sets, Substitute for example. All of these sets are highly effective, just being able to punch holes in your opponent's walls, and Teravolt is pretty nice too; the most obvious example I can give is that it allows Kyurem-B to hit Rotom-W with Earth Power, landing a solid 2HKO without needing to use Outrage (physically-biased needs Stealth Rock.) In addition, it ignores Thick Fat, so Mega Venusaur isn't taking an Ice Beam well at all.

Also, having two different main wallbreaking sets adds a certain degree of versatility to Kyurem-B, even though it has a shallow movepool. Slowbro stops the specially-biased set easily, but, after Stealth Rock, is 2HKOed by Fusion Bolt from the physically-biased set. Of course, it can also run a Substitute set, needing only a small amount of HP to grant 101 HP Substitutes, giving a nice "Fuck you" to Seismic Toss and also giving Kyurem-B a buffer to freely attack without worrying about Mach Punches or whatever, and it also has a Choice Scarf set (though admittedly this one is mostly for the surprise factor.) Just that versatility is like, "Okay, what set is he running? If he runs special, my Slowbro will have a good time, but if he runs physical, Slowbro's not doing so well against it... What do I do?" There is no way Kyurem-B is on the same level as stuff like passive-as-fuck Alomomola, overly-dependent-on-Rain Kabutops and Tornadus-T, and others, as they just can't cause your opponent to be faced with that dilemma. Of course, Kyurem-B doesn't do that nearly as effectively as Talonflame does, but that's why it's not up in A+ with Talonflame. Kyurem-B definitely deserves its rank.

 

[Jaroda]

Megadactyl also has Roost for recovery and Taunt for breathing room (4MSS however). And its typing and speed can actually be a boon when it comes to Roosting and recovering, getting rid of its Ice, Electric and Rock weaknesses. It's a big stretch to say its frail by any standards when it has reliable recovery and you have things like Greninja, Megazam and Gengar in the A ranks. Not a single defensive stat of its is below 80, on top of its monstrous speed that helps ensure healing opportunities. While Megadactyl really shouldn't switch into anything but Earthquake of course, the pressure it puts on the enemy when it gets in is enormous because its coverage options are immense and it doesn't really have good predictability yet outside of one of its STABs. It's main downsides are the low BP of its moves, even with Tough Claws, its choice for STAB moves, which don't really benefit from Tough Claws, and only having access to Hone Claws for boosting its attack as opposed to Swords Dance. So while it can cause a lot of damage, it is one of those precision based revenge killers dependent on correct move selection, rather than brute force with strong BP attacks and neutral coverage. Still, A- is well suited for Megadactyl, as well as Megazam. Their natural speed is so great, and power sufficient that they are terrific revenge killers that don't require a scarf to perform their role.

 

[Celticpride]

Fun fact about Mega Aerodactyl, it's one of the few things that can check both Charizard Megas and Talonflame. It also performs well against BirdSpam and Sand offense. It makes team building for an offensive team much easier. Some may say it has 4MSS, and it does, but that's not a bad thing. Hone Claws, Roost and Taunt are three very good support moves, and it's attacking movepool is well documented. Sure it can't run everything, but every non-Earthquake coverage move is made stronger by Tough Claws. You could look at it from the perspective of I'll be walled by X if I don't run Y, but I don't look at it that way. I look at it from the perspective that it can fill gaps that a team has in coverage. Fairy problems? Run Iron Head. Ferrothorn problem? Run Fire Fang. It's so freaking versatile and it can fill almost any gap you need. Aero in A- would be fine.

Anyone have an opinion on Mega Ampharos? I've been using the Agility set lately to decent success. It reaches 471 Special Attack with a Modest nature and Agility puts it at 378 speed at +2. Electric/Dragon coverage is insane and Focus Blast takes care of some peskier Steel types like Excadrill and Ferrothorn. It can also use a Volt Switch set in VoltTurn cores that rely on slower switches to gain momentum instead of faster ones. I've also seen it used on Rain teams, which makes sense because it can spam perfectly accurate Thunders and it also takes Electric attacks like a boss. The Mawile ban has opened up the Mega slot on TR, and Mega Amphy fits perfectly on those teams as a slow Mega (along with Mega Hera, but they attack from different ends of the spectrum). The Agility set and TR set also highlight the fact that Amphy resists a lot of types of priority while only being weak to Ice Shard iirc. It resists Brave Bird, Aqua Jet, Bullet Punch and Aerialate Quick Attack while being neutral to the rest. 90/105/110 bulk is nothing to sneeze at on top of all that, and Electric/Dragon gives it a good set of resistances to come in on. Over all a very solid Mega and it really doesn't directly compete with a lot of other Megas for niches and roles. Maybe it could move up to B?

 

[Lavender Keys]

First post on the site WEEEE

Cresselia is weak to Knock Off, which sucks. Other than that, it's one of the bulkiest mons in OU. I really don't have much info on it sadly.

Why is Weavile thought as A rank? The only good stats in it are Speed and attack, and it dies OT Priority. Scizor basically counters it, along with Mach Punch Breloom possibly checking it. It is outclassed by some mons, most notably Greninja, but I don't think it's bad at all. It does NOT deserve a rank higher than B+
Also TerrorDave Aerodactyl and Zam are great but lack good defenses. Scizor checks Aerodactyl (unless Fire Fang) and checks/counters Zam. Weavile also checks Aerodactyl and Zam, same with Ferrothorn and etc.

I think Weavile is one of the most underrated cleanup sweepers in the metagame as of now. It's fantastic speed and frightening STAB knock off makes it a pokemon that simply cannot be stopped once certain counters are out of the way. Not only that, it also gets access to ice shard to revenge kill scarfers that are either weak to it (namely Garchomp) or ones that are low health (like Raikou). This mon plays different roles as a sweeper, revenge killer, or even a choice banded stall-breaker with Knock Off alone. Low kick is also great for dangerous threats like Ttar, which can set up rocks to hamper Weavile. With great hazard control, Weavile can capitalize on your hazards and pick up kills on bulky mons, and roam without pesky rocks on your side to hamper its already frail defense stats. For the preceding reasons, it should qualify for A-, rather than B+.

 

[CopperCooper13]

Keldeo S ==> A
I feel that keldeo is not an S Pokemon. qIt is very predictable, and easy to play around (for an S pokemon). You run low risk and high reward for running, but i feel if you get swept by a keldeo, its your own fault.

 

[Lavender Keys]

Fun fact about Mega Aerodactyl, it's one of the few things that can check both Charizard Megas and Talonflame. It also performs well against BirdSpam and Sand offense. It makes team building for an offensive team much easier. Some may say it has 4MSS, and it does, but that's not a bad thing. Hone Claws, Roost and Taunt are three very good support moves, and it's attacking movepool is well documented. Sure it can't run everything, but every non-Earthquake coverage move is made stronger by Tough Claws. You could look at it from the perspective of I'll be walled by X if I don't run Y, but I don't look at it that way. I look at it from the perspective that it can fill gaps that a team has in coverage. Fairy problems? Run Iron Head. Ferrothorn problem? Run Fire Fang. It's so freaking versatile and it can fill almost any gap you need. Aero in A- would be fine.

Anyone have an opinion on Mega Ampharos? I've been using the Agility set lately to decent success. It reaches 471 Special Attack with a Modest nature and Agility puts it at 378 speed at +2. Electric/Dragon coverage is insane and Focus Blast takes care of some peskier Steel types like Excadrill and Ferrothorn. It can also use a Volt Switch set in VoltTurn cores that rely on slower switches to gain momentum instead of faster ones. I've also seen it used on Rain teams, which makes sense because it can spam perfectly accurate Thunders and it also takes Electric attacks like a boss. The Mawile ban has opened up the Mega slot on TR, and Mega Amphy fits perfectly on those teams as a slow Mega (along with Mega Hera, but they attack from different ends of the spectrum). The Agility set and TR set also highlight the fact that Amphy resists a lot of types of priority while only being weak to Ice Shard iirc. It resists Brave Bird, Aqua Jet, Bullet Punch and Aerialate Quick Attack while being neutral to the rest. 90/105/110 bulk is nothing to sneeze at on top of all that, and Electric/Dragon gives it a good set of resistances to come in on. Over all a very solid Mega and it really doesn't directly compete with a lot of other Megas for niches and roles. Maybe it could move up to B?

M-Amphy is an solid Pokemon in the Ou meta because of it's niche as an Agility sweeper with and already massive Sp Attack stat. However, I think it just doesn't get enough opportunities to set up. With ground, ice, and Dragon being prominent offensive types in the tier (Excadrill, Pinsir-Mega eq, Greninja Ice Beam, Latios/as, etc.) it often relies on taking a hit while setting up an agility. This is because as an early game sweeper, there are too many walls that can take a hit or two and retaliate with a super effective hit, and threatening scarfers that easily beat 378 speed. But as a later game sweeper, the opponents optimal play is usually to stay in and get off damage for another mon to revenge kill, or to prevent you from getting up a free agility. Without setting up, Ampharos is too slow and not bulky enough to take hits from Ou pokemon.

I think it should stay out of B because of those incapabilities.

 

[AM]

M-Ampharos really shouldn't rise honestly. It's just the inflation of some B ranked mons that should move up or down that kind of make it misleading right now. It's a B- mon in general, even considering all the sets it has access to.

 

[hobreezy]

Anyone have an opinion on Mega Ampharos? I've been using the Agility set lately to decent success. It reaches 471 Special Attack with a Modest nature and Agility puts it at 378 speed at +2. Electric/Dragon coverage is insane and Focus Blast takes care of some peskier Steel types like Excadrill and Ferrothorn. It can also use a Volt Switch set in VoltTurn cores that rely on slower switches to gain momentum instead of faster ones. I've also seen it used on Rain teams, which makes sense because it can spam perfectly accurate Thunders and it also takes Electric attacks like a boss. The Mawile ban has opened up the Mega slot on TR, and Mega Amphy fits perfectly on those teams as a slow Mega (along with Mega Hera, but they attack from different ends of the spectrum). The Agility set and TR set also highlight the fact that Amphy resists a lot of types of priority while only being weak to Ice Shard iirc. It resists Brave Bird, Aqua Jet, Bullet Punch and Aerialate Quick Attack while being neutral to the rest. 90/105/110 bulk is nothing to sneeze at on top of all that, and Electric/Dragon gives it a good set of resistances to come in on. Over all a very solid Mega and it really doesn't directly compete with a lot of other Megas for niches and roles. Maybe it could move up to B?

I have been using a Mega Ampharos agility set and have also had some pretty decent success. At +2, a lot of opponents underestimate its speed and thunderbolts or dragon pulses coming off a modest base 165 hit very hard. Mega Ampharos thus works as a pretty solid late game sweeper. However, Ampharos is very weak to common ground types, especially fast ones like scarfchomp, scarf lando T and excadrill. Also, spDef Gliscor really shuts Ampharos down. Also even though it resists priority, Ampharos is not too hard to revenge kill. An perfect example of a common revenge killer is greninja who can come in to revenge kill with icebeam dealing 93-110% damage.

While I do think Ampharos deserves to move up. I just dont see it as being as useful as other B rank mons
Ampharos should stay in B-

 

[Karxrida]

I have been using a Mega Ampharos agility set and have also had some pretty decent success. At +2, a lot of opponents underestimate its speed and thunderbolts or dragon pulses coming off a modest base 165 hit very hard. Mega Ampharos thus works as a pretty solid late game sweeper. However, Ampharos is very weak to common ground types, especially fast ones like scarfchomp, scarf lando T and excadrill. Also, spDef Gliscor really shuts Ampharos down. Also even though it resists priority, Ampharos is not too hard to revenge kill. An perfect example of a common revenge killer is greninja who can come in to revenge kill with icebeam dealing 93-110% damage.

While I do think Ampharos deserves to move up. I just dont see it as being as useful as other B rank mons
Ampharos should stay in B-

Greninja can't revenge kill because a +2 Mega Ampharos outspeeds it by exactly 1 point and gets OHKO'd by Thunderbolt.

The main draw to using Mega Ampharos as a cleaner is that it DGAF Thundurus and resists Aqua Jet, Bullet Punch, and Brave Bird/Aerilate Quick Attack while easily surviving an Ice Shard from Mamoswine or Weavile thanks to its natual bulk and only having a normal weakness to Ice. Dragon/Electric/Fighting hits just about everything in the tier for at least neutral damage coming of a Special Attack stat higher than Aegislash's with higher BP moves, so it isn't hurting for damage output.

 

[theV8man]

Mega Ampharos has a pretty good Agility/Volt Switch set, but it's not cut out for TR at all. Yes, it's slow and bulky, but if your TR sweepers can't break through any common special walls it's just a waste of TR turns against bulkier/stall teams. Don't use TR as an argument for raising this thing.

 

[skies]

Greninja can't revenge kill because a +2 Mega Ampharos outspeeds it by exactly 1 point and gets OHKO'd by Thunderbolt.

The main draw to using Mega Ampharos as a cleaner is that it DGAF Thundurus and resists Aqua Jet, Bullet Punch, and Brave Bird/Aerilate Quick Attack while easily surviving an Ice Shard from Mamoswine or Weavile thanks to its natual bulk and only having a normal weakness to Ice. Dragon/Electric/Fighting hits just about everything in the tier for at least neutral damage coming of a Special Attack stat higher than Aegislash's with higher BP moves, so it isn't hurting for damage output.

You're overselling its bulk a bit:

• 244 Atk Life Orb Mamoswine Ice Shard vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Ampharos: 164-195 (50.9 - 60.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
• 252 Atk Life Orb Weavile Ice Shard vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Ampharos: 156-187 (48.4 - 58%) -- 94.9% chance to 2HKO

It's getting 2HKOed by either of this moves. Plus there's the fact that Weavile outspeeds and Ice Punch OHKOes after SR. It can live the other things you mentioned, but not the Ice Shards. About the Aegislash thing, it's actually not as strong as Life Orb variants which have ~209 after Life Orb (idk if I did this right lol), but nonetheless Life Orb variants are still stronger. Here's a calc to show it:

• 252+ SpA Life Orb Aegislash-Blade Shadow Ball vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mew: 270-320 (79.1 - 93.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
• 252+ SpA Mold Breaker Mega Ampharos Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mew: 193-228 (56.5 - 66.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Mew was set to Ice-type in this calc because it's neutral to both Shadow Ball and Thunderbolt. My main gripe with Mega Ampharos is where does it find the opportunity so set up? There's so much offensive pressure being packed and it a lot of threats it cannot set up on. One example is Azumarill, which tanks a Thunderbolt and OHKOes with Play Rough. Or against teams with Greninja later on in the game, being able to KO weakened Amph's with Ice Beam. This is another point I'd like to bring up: weakened. Ampharos has no reliable recovery and just gets worn down so fast and so quickly to the point where Ice Shards do kill it. And it's susceptible to all entry hazards, so this should be accounted for. Also, it requires you to use Ampharos which can be a liability if you're expecting it to counter Talonflame. Flare Blitz OHKOes after SR to normal Amph btw. A point here is also that it cannot hold an item, so it can't use Life Orb or Leftovers for power or healing respectively. The coverage is amazing, only Whimsicott resists it in OU, so that's fair. But, I just can't see Ampharos moving up so I'm going to have to say Keep Mega Ampharos in B-.

 

[Flamer]

unfixable You kinda fucked up your calcs there

252+ SpA Life Orb Aegislash-Blade Shadow Ball vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mew: 208-246 (60.9 - 72.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ SpA Mold Breaker Mega Ampharos Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mew: 193-228 (56.5 - 66.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

That being said, cmon guys stop with this post-ban hype. Sure, a lot of mons got better after the Aegi ban but nominating everything and their mother that happened to be in the B ranks is stupid af, especially when half of them, ie Mega-Amph and Weavile, gained very little from either ban except 1 less pokemon to beat, this isnt like Mega-Cham/Gard/Hera, who were severely hampered by Aegis existence and needed it gone.

 

[Of Moose & Men]

As an avid agility Amphy user, I don't see the need for it to rise. It is surprisingly difficult to set up at times, and common Pokes threaten it out if not outright OHKO (ScarfChomp/Lando/Drill I'm talking about you). It unfortunately doesn't have as big a role in the OU meta, although I will admit it is probably the best out of B-, hell, even some of those B 'mons (which has sort of been addressed). It requires more support than one would think despite it being a set up sweeper of sorts.

 

[Celticpride]

Mega Amphy wasn't really impacted by the Aegi or Mawile ban because Thunderbolt is the most spammable attack anyway(also Flamer, I never mentioned either ban in my post outside of TR, which is pretty much irrelevant to the conversation). I just realized it had good STABs and great three move coverage so I figured it would be worth talking about it's ranking. I never even really nominated it to move up either, just taking the temperature so to speak. I guess it's fine where it is in B-. I'm not going to use some circular argument to move it up or anything like that. I have just been using it a lot lately and figured what the heck, why not talk about it.

 

[DoABarrelRoll]

Could Nidoking be placed in C-/D? It's a decent destroyer of Fairy-types on DragMag, as it can live one Aqua Jet from Azumarill and Mega Gardy is really the only one which gives Nidoking trouble, but she falls to Choice Scarf variants. LO Nido is also great against stall once Chansey is heavily weakened or eliminated. Otherwise I don't see the point in using it over Landorus, though.

 

[Jaroda]

Mega Ampharos rising above B- seems a bit too generous. Sand offense being popular as well as scarf Landorus just simply is not kind to it, far too many fast Earthquakes. Also, while it has good bulk and defensive typing, that's not until it Megavolves so unfortunately it can't benefit from that right away. However with screen support it can pretty much sweep with impunity, since it priority resistances and bulk are so good as is, the few times it can't one shot something a screen will give it breathing room. Still, it requires a fair degree of support to the point where it's more deadweight without it that anything higher than B- is just too generous.

Also, people suggesting Kyurem-B drop from A- to B+ are out of their mind. It's one of the most effective wallbreakers outside of a Mega you could ask for, and has an insanely good risk/reward ration for the user. If your opponent mispredicts your set, whether it switches to give you a sub, or tries to revenge a scarf set, something of theirs dies. And KyuB's bulk is SO underestimated that it has a much wider margin for error than other pokemon, on top of access to Roost. Sure, weak to SR, but not cripplingly so, and odds are you have at least one other mon on your team that needs that support as is, and this thing is insanely easy to pass Wishes to and heal with Heal Bell. It is leagues better than those in the B+ class. It's role is eclipsed by other mon in certain aspects, like Mega Heracross being the best wallbreaker available, but KyuB's opportunity cost is so generous he's like a consideration prize for picking him.

 

[Hclegend]

Could Nidoking be placed in C-/D? It's a decent destroyer of Fairy-types on DragMag, as it can live one Aqua Jet from Azumarill and Mega Gardy is really the only one which gives Nidoking trouble, but she falls to Choice Scarf variants. LO Nido is also great against stall once Chansey is heavily weakened or eliminated. Otherwise I don't see the point in using it over Landorus, though.

The only problem is that it's kinda slow and weak to some VERY common types
That and it's totally outdone by Greninja and Landorus I (No, Greninja CAN'T run Poison or Ground, it doesn't need them anyway)
I'd like to see it in D though.