Other XY OU Viability Ranking Thread (V3) (Rank changes are over until ORAS)

[stevenizer15]

Mega medichamp to A+

In this new metagame, with aegislash gone I think it is a very underrated pokemon. This thing is an incredible wall-breaker

Medicham-Mega @ Medichamite
Ability: Pure Power
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Fake Out
- High Jump Kick
- Ice Punch
- Zen Headbutt
This set completely negates stall. It can blow enough holes in teams to be finished off later. For me some of the most common pokemon on stall are gliscor, skarmory, venasaur-mega, chansey, amoongus, slowbro. Medichamp can beat any one of these exept slowbro one on one. Some calcs :-

252 Atk Pure Power Mega Medicham High Jump Kick vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 201-237 (60.1 - 70.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

--- skarmory can't switch in on this monster, as it gets 2hkoed,

252 Atk Pure Power Mega Medicham High Jump Kick vs. 4 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 936-1104 (145.7 - 171.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO

---chansey is also KOed, while this might be a surprise, it shows that it can take the skarmcharms combo down


252 Atk Pure Power Mega Medicham Zen Headbutt vs. 252 HP / 240+ Def Mega Venusaur: 272-324 (74.7 - 89%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

---no not even this monster

252 Atk Pure Power Mega Medicham Ice Punch vs. 244 HP / 192+ Def Gliscor: 352-416 (100 - 118.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO

--- gliscor OHKOed. Need I say more


252 Atk Pure Power Mega Medicham Thunder Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 184-218 (46.7 - 55.3%) -- 14.8% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

--- if you have problems with slowbro thunder punch can be used. While you will coverage, this is the best that medichamp has for slowbro.

This is the bane of stall.


____________________________________________________________________

It is not that it is good against stall, it provides good coverage and can revenge kill weakened pokemon with a very powerfull fake out. There are virtually no OU pokemon that can avoid a 2hko. Azumarill gets KOed by the combination of fake out and zen headbutt. Bisharp gets OHKOed. Even ferrothorn gets KOed.

252 Atk Pure Power Mega Medicham High Jump Kick vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Ferrothorn: 422-498 (119.8 - 141.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Mandibuzz ?

252 Atk Pure Power Mega Medicham High Jump Kick vs. 248 HP / 136+ Def Mandibuzz: 271-321 (64 - 75.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

And let's round this up by saying that this thing can wall break half the meta without difficulty. And it cannot be considered S rank because it is frail, does not have the best of speeds, and weak to birdspam. So mega-medichamp A---------> A+

 

[pwnémon]

Mega medichamp to A+

In this new metagame, with aegislash gone I think it is a very underrated pokemon. This thing is an incredible wall-breaker

Medicham-Mega @ Medichamite
Ability: Pure Power
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Fake Out
- High Jump Kick
- Ice Punch
- Zen Headbutt
This set completely negates stall. It can blow enough holes in teams to be finished off later. For me some of the most common pokemon on stall are gliscor, skarmory, venasaur-mega, chansey, amoongus, slowbro. Medichamp can beat any one of these exept slowbro one on one. Some calcs :-

252 Atk Pure Power Mega Medicham High Jump Kick vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 201-237 (60.1 - 70.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

--- skarmory can't switch in on this monster, as it gets 2hkoed,

252 Atk Pure Power Mega Medicham High Jump Kick vs. 4 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 936-1104 (145.7 - 171.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO

---chansey is also KOed, while this might be a surprise, it shows that it can take the skarmcharms combo down


252 Atk Pure Power Mega Medicham Zen Headbutt vs. 252 HP / 240+ Def Mega Venusaur: 272-324 (74.7 - 89%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

---no not even this monster

252 Atk Pure Power Mega Medicham Ice Punch vs. 244 HP / 192+ Def Gliscor: 352-416 (100 - 118.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO

--- gliscor OHKOed. Need I say more


252 Atk Pure Power Mega Medicham Thunder Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 184-218 (46.7 - 55.3%) -- 14.8% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

--- if you have problems with slowbro thunder punch can be used. While you will coverage, this is the best that medichamp has for slowbro.

This is the bane of stall.


____________________________________________________________________

It is not that it is good against stall, it provides good coverage and can revenge kill weakened pokemon with a very powerfull fake out. There are virtually no OU pokemon that can avoid a 2hko. Azumarill gets KOed by the combination of fake out and zen headbutt. Bisharp gets OHKOed. Even ferrothorn gets KOed.

252 Atk Pure Power Mega Medicham High Jump Kick vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Ferrothorn: 422-498 (119.8 - 141.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Mandibuzz ?

252 Atk Pure Power Mega Medicham High Jump Kick vs. 248 HP / 136+ Def Mandibuzz: 271-321 (64 - 75.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

And let's round this up by saying that this thing can wall break half the meta without difficulty. And it cannot be considered S rank because it is frail, does not have the best of speeds, and weak to birdspam. So mega-medichamp A---------> A+

It's frail as hell and is countered by slowbro and other bulky psychics (unless thunderpunch). It also provides next no defensive synergy make it less useful on balance teams compared Mega gardevoir and mega cross. Mega medicham is also relatively slow for an offensive Mon and needs free switches to get in against almost all playstyles. A>A/A-

 

[Of Moose & Men]

It's frail as hell and is countered by slowbro and other bulky psychics (unless thunderpunch). It also provides next no defensive synergy make it less useful on balance teams compared Mega gardevoir and mega cross. Mega medicham is also relatively slow for an offensive Mon and needs free switches to get in against almost all playstyles. A>A/A-

Pretty much this. It can't, and I do in fact mean can't, switch into oncoming attacks, even resisted ones. It is a huge power, erm pure power (I'm hilarious) house, and it's done me quite well since Mawile left us (;_;) but I wouldn't go as far as putting it up there with Pokemon that require little to no support when coming in, or supply the support the team needs with little to no effort.

It's a good 'mon, but not quite good enough for A+.

 

[Vengeance417]

Lando I has no reliable recovery and it's S rank.
Explain.

Neither do Thundurus-I, Azumarill (Aqua Ring lol) and Keldeo, and their jobs aren't hindered by lack of recovery. Mega Zard X is the ONLY one in S Rank with reliable recovery right now, and there are people arguing to bring it down to A+ (I think it should stay in S, personally).

 

[Flarowak]

Man if you went by the posts in this thread, you'd think if a mon wasn't S it was terrible lol. Landorus-T is fine in A+, as well as pretty much the rest of the A+ pokes. Landorus-T is great, but he is the definition of an A+ poke. He needs support to fulfill his roles to the max.

 

[sashimi9999]

I feel that Aron has enough OU viability to make a D ranking. The combination of Sturdy, Endeavor, and Shell Bell at level 1 allows him to severely cripple any Pokemon whether they attack him or not, and when used in sand, that passive damage can finish the opponent off. Shell Bell will keep Sturdy intact to make sure he doesn't die, and Ghost types are the only ones not threatened by Endeavor. Multi-hit moves, Fake Out, Burn and Hail and Hazards are all that can break him besides Hax. Yes, that is a lot of flaws, but that's the definition of D Rank.

 

[theV8man]

I feel that Aron has enough OU viability to make a D ranking. The combination of Sturdy, Endeavor, and Shell Bell at level 1 allows him to severely cripple any Pokemon whether they attack him or not, and when used in sand, that passive damage can finish the opponent off. Shell Bell will keep Sturdy intact to make sure he doesn't die, and Ghost types are the only ones not threatened by Endeavor. Multi-hit moves, Fake Out, Burn and Hail and Hazards are all that can break him besides Hax. Yes, that is a lot of flaws, but that's the definition of D Rank.

I think this is simply too niche to warrant a ranking. I have never seen it in my entire Pokemon career. The best it can do is beat non-Ghost types 1v1 assuming there's no hazards/any kind of passive damage. I can't see any situation where I'd use an entire teamslot for this thing.

 

[Valmanway]

I feel that Aron has enough OU viability to make a D ranking. The combination of Sturdy, Endeavor, and Shell Bell at level 1 allows him to severely cripple any Pokemon whether they attack him or not, and when used in sand, that passive damage can finish the opponent off. Shell Bell will keep Sturdy intact to make sure he doesn't die, and Ghost types are the only ones not threatened by Endeavor. Multi-hit moves, Fake Out, Burn and Hail and Hazards are all that can break him besides Hax. Yes, that is a lot of flaws, but that's the definition of D Rank.

Even compared to the actual D-Ranks, Aron is pretty bad. Horrendous, actually. He absolutely needs sand support in order to get KOs on anything with some form of recovery, is usually a one-time use without sand, Knock Off as common as it is pretty much ruins the strategy, and as you said, literally any form of passive damage ruins the strategy entirely, which is around every corner you take nowadays. Level 1 Aron is just way too gimmicky for even D-Rank imo.

tl;dr I mean no disrespect, but no.

 

[MilkyWay]

It has already been explained how MVenu might lose it's recovery due to sand, but it does win 1v1 against the majority of sand Pokemon, so it really isn't limiting it's viability at all. I guess flyspam is everywhere, but it's not like that stops MHera and Keldeo lol.

Anyway, now that I'm actually awake and won't make absurd nominations, I just want to see on people's opinion on Lando-I moving down. No one objected, no one agreed.

I agree with Lando-I for A+, honestly, I think Keldeo is more deserving of S than Lando. The main reason why Landorus should move down is because of its lack of effectiveness against offense, the most common play style, sure, base 101 speed is trolly, but on such a frail mon it just doesnt cut it against offense. There's always Rock Polish, but this still doesnt fix everything because it takes a turn to set up every time Landorus comes in. Theres also plenty of pokemon who can take a hit from Landorus (either switch in or revenge kill after a Rock Polish) such as the Lati@s who have become more popular since the recent bannings. Azumarill has also gotten better and its av set is a staple on offense. This makes it what of the premiere checks to Landorus due to the AV helping take hits better and it having super effective priority against Landorus. The final nail in the coffin is that stall has finally adapted to Landorus. Sp def gliscor, cresselia, av tornadus t, cb dragonite, etc. are all more common on stall and can reliably check Landorus. I dont that that Landorus is a bad pokemon or anything, its still very good, even against offense, but its not s rank material anymore.

 

[SaberSeven]

Even compared to the actual D-Ranks, Aron is pretty bad. Horrendous, actually. He absolutely needs sand support in order to get KOs on anything with some form of recovery, is usually a one-time use without sand, Knock Off as common as it is pretty much ruins the strategy, and as you said, literally any form of passive damage ruins the strategy entirely, which is around every corner you take nowadays. Level 1 Aron is just way too gimmicky for even D-Rank imo.

tl;dr I mean no disrespect, but no.

Especially with the sand nerf, not worth running it. Leave Aron Unranked.

Getting on topic, I feel like I can see Rhyperior moving on up to about B. Rhyperior can fill a niche as a Stealth Rocker and a solid counter to birdspam. Rhyperior also possesses a great offensive (but rather poor defensive) typing in Ground/Rock giving it STAB QuakeEdge coverage. Solid Rock coupled with solid 115/130/55 defenses (on the physical side at least) make Rhyperior a great physical wall. Outclassed by Ferrothorn for a support role, but unlike Ferrothorn, Rhyperior is a great counter to BirdSpam. The following are calcs for how well Rhyperior can take some physical hits:

252 Atk Mega Pinsir Close Combat vs. 212 HP / 252 Def Solid Rock Rhyperior: 147-174 (34.6 - 41%) -- 61.7% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

+2 252 Atk Mega Pinsir Close Combat vs. 212 HP / 252 Def Solid Rock Rhyperior: 294-346 (69.3 - 81.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252+ Atk Mega Charizard X Earthquake vs. 212 HP / 252 Def Solid Rock Rhyperior: 118-141 (27.8 - 33.2%) -- 87.7% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 Atk Choice Band Staraptor Close Combat vs. 212 HP / 252 Def Solid Rock Rhyperior: 183-216 (43.1 - 50.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 Atk Life Orb Terrakion Close Combat vs. 212 HP / 252 Def Solid Rock Rhyperior: 252-298 (59.4 - 70.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery (can't switch in, but can still survive and OHKO back with Earthquake)

252 Atk (Jolly Scarf variant) Landorus-T Earthquake vs. 212 HP / 252 Def Solid Rock Rhyperior: 177-208 (41.7 - 49%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery (Ice Punch or no, this isn't advised unless Landorus-T has been weakened)

4 Atk Landorus-T Earthquake vs. 212 HP / 252 Def Solid Rock Rhyperior: 148-175 (34.9 - 41.2%) -- 66.4% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

+2 252+ Atk Landorus-T Earthquake vs. 212 HP / 252 Def Solid Rock Rhyperior: 382-451 (90 - 106.3%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO (Rhyperior's gonna have to get lucky and get a low roll if Lando-T is at +2 or if Lando-T isn't running Earth Plate)

252+ Atk Life Orb Excadrill Earthquake vs. 212 HP / 252 Def Solid Rock Rhyperior: 236-281 (55.6 - 66.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery (and Rhyperior can OHKO back with Earthquake. Sans LO does 42.6 - 50.9%, but you better have popped that balloon...)

+1 252 Atk Mega Tyranitar Earthquake vs. 212 HP / 252 Def Solid Rock Rhyperior: 192-226 (45.2 - 53.3%) -- 0.4% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery (calculating after a Dragon Dance)

+6 252 Atk Sharp Beak Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 212 HP / 252 Def Rhyperior on a critical hit: 336-396 (79.2 - 93.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery (Getting slightly cheeky here but pretty much shows that Rhyperior pretty much hard counters Talonflame)

A good number of these calcs should prove that Rhyperior handles a good number of physical attackers in the tier along with BirdSpam teams and why Rhyperior should be looked at to move up to B rank.

 

[Vengeance417]

I agree with Rhyperior moving up to B. For being so physically bulky, he also has a really high Attack stat to complement his Defense. He can also Roar or Dragon Tail opponents out who dare to set up on him, and with SR up, those moves make him a really good phaser. Rock Blast also hits through Sturdies, Substitutes and Focus Sashes if you use it before SR is up.

While not as viable, he could run a Specially Defensive AV set that'll help him take special hits better, especially with the aid of Solid Rock. He has the naturally high Attack stat to go fully offensive to back it up, something a lot of "good AV users" lack.

 

[DoABarrelRoll]

This may sound stupid, but I'm nominating Feraligatr for C rank. Feraligatr got worse this gen since permanent weather is no longer a thing, but it's still a really good wallbreaker in the rain that isn't outclassed by Crawdaunt due to its much better bulk, higher Speed stat and access to Ice Punch and Earthquake. Feraligatr is still kinda slow (base 78 speed), but considering it has access to Aqua Jet and resists this priority move as well as Bullet Punch and can take Mach Punches and even Talonflame's Brave Bird, it's not that big of a deal. Kabutops might seem to completely outclass it at first glance, but Feraligatr has a much easier time setting up a SD and better coverage.

 

[AM]

This may sound stupid, but I'm nominating Feraligatr for C rank. Feraligatr got worse this gen since permanent weather is no longer a thing, but it's still a really good wallbreaker in the rain that isn't outclassed by Crawdaunt due to its much better bulk, higher Speed stat and access to Ice Punch and Earthquake. Feraligatr is still kinda slow (base 78 speed), but considering it has access to Aqua Jet and resists this priority move as well as Bullet Punch and can take Mach Punches and even Talonflame's Brave Bird, it's not that big of a deal. The problem with Feraligatr is that it competes with Kabutops for a slot, absolutely needs rain to function and is slow.

This seems like a waste of time when by this logic I could ask to rank something like Honchkrow by just pointing out some of what it does and say "Oh yeah well it does this but in a nutshell it still sucks in OU". If people want to use Feraligtar in OU let them go ahead, nobody is stopping them. Doesn't change the fact it's bad.

 

[Klobb]

This may sound stupid, but I'm nominating Feraligatr for C rank. Feraligatr got worse this gen since permanent weather is no longer a thing, but it's still a really good wallbreaker in the rain that isn't outclassed by Crawdaunt due to its much better bulk, higher Speed stat and access to Ice Punch and Earthquake. Feraligatr is still kinda slow (base 78 speed), but considering it has access to Aqua Jet and resists this priority move as well as Bullet Punch and can take Mach Punches and even Talonflame's Brave Bird, it's not that big of a deal. Kabutops might seem to completely outclass it at first glance, but Feraligatr has a much easier time setting up a SD and better coverage.

Feraligatr is outclassed and I wouldn't seriously use it over Kabutops, Crawdaunt, or Azumarill. He's just too slow, and not at all strong. Sorry but I disagree with it getting ranked at all because there's really no reason to use him.

 

[Kyuzeth]

Rhyperior definitely deserves to rise to B. Its immense physical stats are a huge boon for it in the current metagame and its typing offensively does wonders, allowing it to take on a variety of roles. It doesn't need much investment to be powerful, at least strong enough to destroy Flying Spam, which is what it's just fantastic at; it's just about the best defensive check, since Staraptor cannot get past it (resists Double-Edge, unlike a certain washing machine) and thanks to Solid Rock and that immense Defense, Close Combat doesn't OHKO (unlike what happens to T-Tar). As mentioned before, Rock Blast gets past Substitutes, Focus Sashes on Leads... It's a great utility move. Earthquake just destroys coming from 140 Attack, even when uninvested. Rhyperior's great coverage allows it to hit a multitude of targets; Megahorn gets past Psychic-types, Aqua Tail gets perfect coverage with most of Rhype's moves (not counting just EdgeQuake; resisted by Breloom and Chesnaught), Ice Punch hits Dragon-types, Fire Punch smacks Ferrothorn and Mega Scizor and Iron Head is there if you hate Fairies. It has even more utility in Roar and Dragon Tail, which are great for racking up some passive damage alongside Stealth Rock.
The Choice Band set just hits insanely hard and has few safe switch-ins, the defensive set is a reliable SR setter with enough power to fend for itself and the underrated AV Set gives Rhyperior great mixed bulk while still allowing it to hit hard; it may be outperformed by Azumarill on this set, but Rhyperior does have more HP and more Defense, as well as offensively perfect coverage, setting it apart.
Sadly, it's got two double weaknesses in Water and Grass, along with weaknesses to Fighting-, Steel-, Ground- and Ice-type moves. With how common these move types are, it's kind of tough for Rhyperior to find opportunities to switch in; the best it can hope for is to switch in on non-STAB variants of these moves, since supereffective STABs are still gonna hurt. Nevertheless, Rhyperior definitely has a place in this metagame as a Flying Spam check. Rhyperior should move up to B.

Landorus mention removed because of all S-Rankers now being in Conclusion Reached.

Also lol Feraligatr. Please don't rank this thing, everything else does the job so much better and even shit in D Rank performs better than Gatr.

 

[DoABarrelRoll]

Rhyperior should stay B- because I think the main point in using him was countering Aegislash and Mega Mawile and maybe then it was when he deserved B or even B+. With some Speed EVs he didn't really care about +2 Sucker Punch, didn't take that much from Shadow Ball or Sacred Sword and OHKO them back. Yes he usually stops bird spam bar Grass Knot Torn-T and is a great utility Pokemon, but sadly he wishes he could use both Assault Vest and Stealth Rock on the same set, and is way too weak to water and grass.

 

[Durant]

Rhyperior should stay B- because I think the main point in using him was countering Aegislash and Mega Mawile and maybe then it was when he deserved B or even B+. With some Speed EVs he didn't really care about +2 Sucker Punch, didn't take that much from Shadow Ball or Sacred Sword and OHKO them back. Yes he usually stops bird spam bar Grass Knot Torn-T and is a great utility Pokemon, but sadly he wishes he could use both Assault Vest and Stealth Rock on the same set, and is way too weak to water and grass.

That wasn't Rhyperior his main point at all. Rhyperior his main deal is that he can deal with birdspam effectively while settting up Stealth Rock and also having offensive pressure which a lot of stall mons lack. Also he doesn't get trapped by Magnezone unlike Skarmory which is also pretty big. Also lol AV Rhyperior is pretty bad.

Anyways I do think Rhyperior should move up. Surely he has some flaws like unfortunate weaknesses and lack of recovery but it is not like ypu have 5 other mons to help him. Rhyperior is mostly used on stall which most of the time has a Wish passer by default. Grass and Water weaknesses are annoying but not like you have to stay in on those moves and most Pokemon it is supposed to wall don't carry those moves aside from the weird Natural Gift Talonflame set. But anyway birdspam is really popular right now and Rhyperior is probably the best way to deal with it because it doesn't get trapped by Magnezone. Rhyperior also has a great 140 base attack which let's him have offensive pressure unlike most stall Pokemon. Aside from that though Rhyperior can also use a SP Def spread and wall things like Thunderus which is also useful. All in all can wall quite a few scary threats and most of his flaws are easily managable through decent teambuilding which is why I think it should be B.

EDIT: Ow yeah he counters Zard X which is big but sadly he still struggles with the Wisp set which is getting more common right now.

 

[Clone]

Rhyperior should stay B- because I think the main point in using him was countering Aegislash and Mega Mawile and maybe then it was when he deserved B or even B+. With some Speed EVs he didn't really care about +2 Sucker Punch, didn't take that much from Shadow Ball or Sacred Sword and OHKO them back. Yes he usually stops bird spam bar Grass Knot Torn-T and is a great utility Pokemon, but sadly he wishes he could use both Assault Vest and Stealth Rock on the same set, and is way too weak to water and grass.

Rhyperior was never a great aegis check lol. He was decent at it but not amazing as Shadow Ball still did a fuckton on the switch. And Mawile always speed crept anyways so he had to run a lot of unnecessary speed to only do a mediocre job at checking Mawile.

Rhyperior is and always has been used as a bird spam check and Zard X check thanks to his immense physical bulk and ability to hit both of them super effectively.

Also AV isn't really that great of a set in all honestly. Rhyperior shouldn't be used to take on special attackers. It may be good in UU or RU (idk and idrc), but the PhysDef set is his he's one in OU

I'm neutral on where he goes, but at least get your facts straight.

 

[Nog]

Rhyperior should stay B- because I think the main point in using him was countering Aegislash and Mega Mawile

?_____? wut

Rhyperior is a bird spam counter first and foremost and is a damn good one at that. Reliable SR setter, nice ability, solid bulk, not passive at all, phazer, yada yada. It does all of its jobs well imo and is the only poke that combines these aspects together.

 

[SpiderQueen]

Would it be completely absurd to suggest a drop for normal Scizor? At least to B-? He's completely and utterly outclassed by Mega Scizor, and while he can run multiple sets, he's not wonderful at any of them and they're fairly easy to scout.

 

[Epikhairz]

something thats kinda bugging me is that the pic used in the OP depicts an aegislash when it's been banned from xy ou for quite some time. probably not a top priority, but that should probably be changed as soon as someone can get to it,,,

good list tho

 

[Valmanway]

something thats kinda bugging me is that the pic used in the OP depicts an aegislash when it's been banned from xy ou for quite some time. probably not a top priority, but that should probably be changed as soon as someone can get to it,,,

good list tho

That will be fixed when an artist has interest and find the time to make a new picture. But I feels you, a change should happen.

 

[BAKAResh]

something thats kinda bugging me is that the pic used in the OP depicts an aegislash when it's been banned from xy ou for quite some time. probably not a top priority, but that should probably be changed as soon as someone can get to it,,,

good list tho

Maybe we could have the circular thingy on Azu's belly :D Just a thought~

On topic, I am going to discuss a bit about Rhyperior. To start off, I feel that it should move up to B.

Reasoning:
- It is one of the better Flyspam checks in the meta and it is on a level similar to Zapdos (Barring Defog but it easy enough to pack one of the Latis along with him since they make a pretty good pair with Latis resisting Water, Grass, Fighting, Ground)
- He gets access to an amazing utility move in the form of Rock Blast. To break subs especially with the possible rise of SubFlail MPinsir (WTF I can't believe I am saying this haha)
- Solid Rock is an amazing ability.
- Common flyspam members cannot get pass it unless using novel sets, such as Grass/Ice NG Talonflame, and that allows it to be good at it's job.
- It is by no means passive
- Observing the other members of B rank, Celebi, Mega Chomp, Hawlucha, Rachi, they are all good at their jobs and are capable of performing better with the meta settling down and with Sand Offense being the in thing to run. Since Rhyperior is a rock type, it also gains a boon when used for/against sand offence members (although it's spdef is booty, a slight boost is better than no boost and Solid Rock can help to a certain extent).
- It's flaws is that it has no real means of reliable recovery and has to rely on lefties.

Overall, I feel that it has improved as the meta leans more toward Sand Offense and is capable of doing FlySpam Checks as well as Zapdos (Again, barring defog but still, Zapdos against Sand is bad news for Zappy). Hence it deserves a B rank at most.

 

[alexwolf]

Ok, it's time we clear up Landorus's ranking and make a definite decision about it. Landorus is staying in S rank and will be included to the ''conclusion reached'' category.

The reason for this decision is that Landorus has one amazing offensive set that is pretty consistent in general (Earth Power, Focus Blast, Knock Off, Sludge Wave / Psychic / Hidden Power Ice), and a ton of versatility, meaning no surefire counter exists and that Landorus can be tailored to fit any team's needs. And all this while having no real drawbacks, outside of lack of a spammable STAB, which is somewhat offset by the fact that most of Landorus's checks are easy to spot and hit on the switch. You could argue it's a bit slow and gets outsped by some very important Pokemon, such as Keldeo, Latios, and Greninja, but none of those Pokemon are as hard to wall as Landorus, and none of those Pokemon have the same longevity as Landorus without being choice locked. Latios and Greninja take LO damage and are both hurt by sandstorm, while Latios is also weak to Pursuit. Landorus has none of those problems. Keldeo's best set locks it to one move, making it much easier to play around than Landorus. And while Keldeo checks more Pokemon with its great defensive typing and can outspeed some Pokemon that Landorus can't (Garchomp and opposing Landorus mainly), Landorus is more difficult to counter and its best set doesn't lock it to one move, while also being more versatile than Keldeo. If there was S- rank, both Landorus and Keldeo would be there, but now that we have established that the standards of S rank are lower than they used to be, Landorus is as worthy of S rank as Keldeo.

 

[Lil YoshiXD]

meaning no surefire counter exists

*cough Cresselia cough*

Well guess that clears that up, seems like lando and keldeo are stuck in S and the S's Standards have lowered.

Moving on I support Rhyperior for B
its a great bird spam counter and general physical wall that can check a bunch of things, hit hard, phaze, and set up SR.