XY UU Viability Ranking Thread

[Pancham]

I am not quite understanding how a mon who can really use just one set fills the role of an S-rank mon?

S Rank:
Reserved for Pokemon who can sweep or wall significant portions of the metagame with little support, and Pokemon who can support other Pokemon with very little opportunity cost ("free turns"). Also the home of Pokemon who can easily perform multiple roles effectively, increasing their versatility and unpredictability. If the Pokemon in this rank have any flaws, those flaws are thoroughly mitigated by their substantial strengths.

Hawlucha is extremely weak to any form of priority, can be walled by Bronzong, Zapdos, etc. with ease (it needs a critical hit to 2HKO Bronzong with no Defensive investment, same goes for Zapdos). It can only use one set, and while it uses it effectively, it falls under the A-rank due to this fact. I also feel Hawlucha's positives do not compensate for its many flaws, and I do mean many.

Plat There are actually multiple pokemon who can effectively run an Assault Vest set. I am currently in love with using Entei, and I am also wanting to try out other users of it such as Slowbro, Metagross, maybe even AV Zapdos or Mienshao could be cool. When it comes to Assault Vest, your horizons are almost endless.

 

[Ranger Mike]

I nominate Chatot for D rank as its niche is that if it gets to +2 and outspeeds the opponent and if they dont have priority it sweeps, so basically it has a niche but it has next to no chances to sweep qualifying for d rank.

 

[C AllStar]

Many opinions on the current list.

Slowbro: I have used it serveral times and while it is really good, is not S rank worthy. With the introduction of Assault Vest, it can finally be a mixed wall and can choose between physically defensive and mixed wal sets. However, it doesn't fair well against top metagame threats. S rank Chandelure, Houndoom, Hydreigon all murders it. Things that it check, like Damanitan, Victini, Mienshao etc, usually spams U-turn and it cannot effectively damage them without hazards (same for them though). It is hurt by the Knock Off buff since it can actually take on some of its users originally. Moreover, despite its SpA stat and movepool, Slowbro simply doesn't hit hard enough. For example, Ice Beam doesn't even come close to OHKO on Haxorus and leaves it with 4-5 turns of LO hp to spare. In return, LO Outrage has a chance to OHKO even physically defensive after rocks. T-wave varients need to watch out for Lum Berry. Slowbro's problem is that it cannot both take hit well and retaliate hard at the same time, allowing the opponent not even caring about 'super effective' move and set up on crucial times, while it lacks the sheer bulk to take on boosted opponents. This sounds more of A+ Rank for me.

Chesnaught: This thing is really overrated. Its only niche in the tier in fact is checking Crawdaunt (and other Knock Offs). Spikes seems cool until you realize that it is a magnet to all hazard removers (Mew, Latias, Zapdos, Crobat and even Mega Blastoise thanks to its inability to tank an Ice Beam). More than half of the top meta threats like Chandelure, Hawlucha, Houndoom, Victini, Kyurem, Nidoking etc eats it alive while most of the others are things it can't switch in on (Hydreigon, Slowbro, Mega Blastoise, Mega Manectric, Keldeo). It is god damn awful if Knock Off is banned. B- Rank for this shit.

Chansey: Chansey is something that is really good now. Knock Off is not an issue thanks to its users being really obvious and Chansey has no business staying on them anyway. With Wish+Softboiled (seriously, don't use downright inferior WishTect), it can even act as a pivot for balanced and even offensive teams. It is no longer a momentum loser since it doesn't need two turns for healing while being able to pass huge Wishes to check to opposite switch ins. The amount of things it walls which includes 99% of the special attacker and 60% of the physical attackers doesn't even needs mention and its incredible support movepool should be well-known. The only thing stopping it from S is it sort of gives set up opportunities to some physical sweepers and need some team support to take on those. A+ pink blob for sure.

Mienshao: Mienshao has recived a huge buff this gen on Knock Off. No longer will it be walles hard by ghosts or psychics to an extent. As oppose to what people say, Knock Off doesn't lack power. In fact, there is a high chance for Physically Defensive Mew will be 2HKOed by Knock Off + U-turn, making it insanely hard to switch into. Personally, I enjoy using a SubPass set with High Jump Kick and Knock Off. It is really easy to set up subs thanks to Mienshao's offensive pressence and can easily pass to teamates when against counters (they are rare anyway). Damage from Sub and LO are compensated by Regenerator, which is an incredible ability on Mienshao. There is nothing actually safe from Mienshao as everything is 2HKOed by its sheer power. Even extemely bulky mons and resists like Suicune, Heracross and non-physically defensive Florges are 2HKOed by LO High Jump Kick after rocks. If Reckless is taken into account, those 2HKOs doesn't even need rocks while even physically defensive Florges can fall to 2HKO after rocks. Its scarf set is stil incredibly good and gives offensive teams huge pressure. Fraility is an issue, but it hasn't stopped it being S rank last gen for a long period. Mienshao has just got more powerful than before and isn't that seriously hurt by tier changes. It should be A+ Rank.

Gardevoir: In fact, this should be A+ Rank. It is like Scarf Emboar in RU, being the most anti-meta revenge killer. It can switch in and revenge unboosted Hawlucha, Hydriegon, Latias, Keldeo, Heracross, Coil Zygarde, Band Haxorus, Crobat , Azelf, Mienshao etc with its dual STABs alone. Its extensive offensive movepook containing Thunderbolt, Shadow Ball, Focus Blast, Signal Beam allows it to tailor its set to fit the team's need. What makes it really great though, is its access to Trick and Healing Wish. With Trick, it is a scarfer that isn't deadweight against stall, crippling Chansey, Florges which usually walls it easily. Healing Wish is an incredible move for HO teams, fully recovering a sweeper while turn the momentum to the user's side. Trace is an incredible ability which is less valuable now with Drizzle and Thundurus-T banned. Gardevoir isn't even that one sided as is can run a defensive and CM set easily, which is not outclassed by Florges thanks to access to WoW and Psyshock respectively. The only thing holding it back is its lackster physical bulk and average 80 base speed.

Venomoth: I have used it extensively in UU. While I don't agree that it deserves A Rank, it shouldn't be as low as B-. While Venomoth's bulk is bad, its nice typing gives it resistance to commonly choiced fighting and bug moves. It usually can find opportunities to set up against offense while stall is even harder to stop it thanks to Wonder Skin. The only thing that can stop it from QuiverPassing is strong physical scarfers faster than it as Scarf Keldeo can't manage to 2HKO it after a boost.. However, this is its main problem as those scarfers are really good and prevalant in the tier. Victini, Darmanitan, Mienshao, Jirachi are the best scarfers right now and fucks up Veomoths which doesn't immediately bp away. While it needs team support to deal with some scarfers, it can do its job most of the time and the reward for QD passing is huge. It deserves to be B/B+ Rank

Shedinja: ...It walls a grand total of 4 offensive pokes under A/S (Keldeo, Latias, Zygarde, Kyurem)... It would be 1000X better in Ubers, where it still suck... Can't see any niche at all to be even at D Rank. Unranked/Give it a F(ail) Rank please.

 

[Kingpoleon]

Shedinja has a niche, however small, and there fore, I am against making it Fail/Unrank. We can't just do Viability Rankings based on personal opinion. We have to do it according to the definition shown in that category(S, A, B, C, D, E, F). The +/(blank)/- are there to express personal opinion to an extent. Thy should mainly be used as a 67-100(+), 34-66(nothing), 33-1(-) to see what percentage it should be S/A/B/C/D/E/F over something else.

 

[Oddish is the best]

I would like to nominate Shaymin for A
Shaymin, to put it frankly, has fallen under the shadow of Celebi. While Celebi can run effective defensive and offensive sets, Shaymin can really only run an offensive set and sub-seed. Despite this flaw, Shaymin is really good at doing it's job which is sweeping. Shaymin's has 2 major advantages over Celebi. First, Shaymin has arguably the best offensive grass type move in the game. Seed flare hits at 120BP with a 40% chance to half special defense with the only drawback being its 85% accuracy. Its other major advantage over Celebi is lack of Dark/Ghost weakness's and a less severe U-Turn weakness. This allow's Shaymin to not fear(as much) the Knock Off U-turn combo that seems to be pretty common.

Additionally, Shaymin has pretty good coverage in SF/EP/Psychic or Air Slash/Dazzling Gleam. This effectively allows it to hit most of the metagame for SE damage. It can hit all of the S rank Threats for SE damage with the SF/EP/Psychic/DG set. Granted, some of these s rank's outspend Shaymin like Hawlucha, but the beauty of Shaymin is that if you're good at predicting, you can hit something hard on the switch. This actually comes quite easily for Shaymin as it can sub in on any bulky water and not fear burn because of Natural Cure, and the proceed to either Seed Flare, or predict a switch into a predictable counter with a coverage move. It's also reasonably bulky for a sweeper as 100/100/100 defenses means that it can take neutral and non STAB SE hits pretty decently. Of course, they're flaws with Shaymin. In order to dish out the damage to some of it's counters, it must rely on hitting them on the switch, especially for things like Hawlucha and Crobat. If your opponent happens to pack more than 1 obvious switch in to Shaymin, it can be difficult to predict what's coming in and you could end up giving a free turn away. Overall though, the pro's outweigh the cons with Shaymin and it really is pretty good in the meta and is able to distinguish itself from Celebi with a better attacking set and STAB move. Overall I would say A rank, A- at the very least (Coming from over 100 games of Shaymin this UU, with most games taking place above 1400)

P.S I can't stand it sitting at C+ behind Gorrebys, Ninjask, Seismitoad, Mega Bannette, and Avalugg.

 

[C AllStar]

Shedinja has a niche, however small, and there fore, I am against making it Fail/Unrank. We can't just do Viability Rankings based on personal opinion. We have to do it according to the definition shown in that category(S, A, B, C, D, E, F). The +/(blank)/- are there to express personal opinion to an extent. Thy should mainly be used as a 67-100(+), 34-66(nothing), 33-1(-) to see what percentage it should be S/A/B/C/D/E/F over something else.

Lol just joking for the ranks. But what niche does Shedinja have. Walling 4 pokemon in the tier with insane amount of support? At least in other tiers like Ubers (Kyogre, some Mewtwo, CM Electriceus, Xerneas) and BW RU (Druddigon, SubCM Uxie, Mesprit, choiced fightings) it actualy can wall more top tier things and damaging weathers are not the only ones. Sheddy doesn't even have a small niche, a requirement for E Rank, in XY UU and should not be ranked at all.

 

[EonX]

Don't have a lot of comments atm as my thoughts aren't together on a lot of things, but there is one thing I really want to point out.

Chesnaught: Am I missing something here? Seriously, why is this thing above Roserade? Honestly, I don't see why I would want to use this over Roserade unless I just needed something to eat Knock Offs. Otherwise, Roserade is faster, stronger, has access to Sleep Powder, sub Poison typing to switch in freely on Toxic, and Natural Cure to get rid of burns, something that seriously cripples Chesnaught. I'd drop this to B or B- rank. So many special attackers eat it alive and just about every entry hazard remover can switch in on it with few problems.

 

[Kadabrium]

Yanmega d drop further.
As a sweeper it cant really beat any bulkier pokemon 1 on 1, even late game, with neutral moves alone.
Although it is definitely one of the best QD recipients, second only to perhaps nidoking.

 

[Shiruba]

Yanmega... To D?
Look, I haven't been around XY UU for a lot of time [kinda a clustrefuck atm], but Yanmega isn't a sweeper so much as a cleaner, much like Sharpedo. It typically cleans weakened teams up, with Speed Boost making it a pain in the ass to revenge kill, and differentiating itself from Sharpedo by being specially oriented [though Sharpedo can also go this route] and by having some degree of bulk when SR is not in play. It can also use its other good ability in Tinted Lens to lock itself into something like Bug Buzz without having to worry much about resists switching in. I've not seen how Yanmega plays this gen, haven't seen it at all so far actually, but surely it is better than D.

 

[Kadabrium]

Yanmega... To D?
Look, I haven't been around XY UU for a lot of time [kinda a clustrefuck atm], but Yanmega isn't a sweeper so much as a cleaner, much like Sharpedo. It typically cleans weakened teams up, with Speed Boost making it a pain in the ass to revenge kill, and differentiating itself from Sharpedo by being specially oriented [though Sharpedo can also go this route] and by having some degree of bulk when SR is not in play. It can also use its other good ability in Tinted Lens to lock itself into something like Bug Buzz without having to worry much about resists switching in. I've not seen how Yanmega plays this gen, haven't seen it at all so far actually, but surely it is better than D.

With so much stall and priority, there rly isnt such a thing as a "weakened team" in general.

 

[Pancham]

Yah. I am going to have to agree with the drop of Chesnaught. It literally is the biggest magnet to any hazard remover you can think of in the tier, except maybe Empoleon. Chesnaught has a pretty bad typing, coupled with an even bigger weakness of top tier threats, which have all been mentioned. The only thing this thing is good for is absorbing Knock Off, but honestly, Mega Aggron is pretty much 100% better.

I also feel as though Entei should be at least A rank. With an Assault Vest, it can switch into almost any special attacker, and threaten it with its STAB Sacred Fire, excellent priority in Extreme Speed, or coverage moves like Stone Edge, Iron Head or Bulldoze (or whatever ground move it gets, I forget its name). And with a band, it is an excellent revenge killer due to its priority, and can live an attack due to its great natural bulk, if needed, to get another kill.

On a side note, after playing as many games as I have, I am surprised I haven't seen many Kyurems or Victinis. I guess the UU ladder is using mediocre mons just as much as OU is.

 

[Toljik]

Not to mention that Meloetta is one of the few pokemon that can really run assault vest viably since Meloetta rarely runs any non damaging moves anyways. It has great special bulk and can morph into a mon with great mixed bulk with the use of relic song. This also really helps it switch forms effectively, which can't be understated.

That handy Ghost immunity should also be mentioned, since it lets her get past Pokemon that other Psychic types would struggle with.

Ambipom and Delphox should both be moved down to D.

Ambipom I agree with. What made it viable in Gen V UU was its ability to take out frailer sweepers and punish Pokemon trying to tank a Fake Out. but Gen VI UU is a lot bulkier and a moderately powered Fake Out/Beat Up/Low Kick isn't going to cut it.

I nominate Chatot for D rank as its niche is that if it gets to +2 and outspeeds the opponent and if they dont have priority it sweeps, so basically it has a niche but it has next to no chances to sweep qualifying for d rank.

Chatot's Boomburst actually has exactly the same power as Porygon-Z's Adaptability Tri Attack, and they both have Nasty Plot and Agility. In order to make a case for Chatot, focus on what has that Porygon-Z doesn't (like higher speed and a 100% confusion STAB move).

 

[Kingpoleon]

C Rank: Reserved for Pokemon who can be effective given the right support, but either have crippling flaws that prevent them from consistently executing their strategy or are completely eclipsed by a Pokemon in the above ranks.

Dusknoir is completely eclipsed by Cofagrigus and Doublade, but is still good in TR/stall.

 

[ryan]

Chesnaught is amazing. It has fantastic longevity with Leech Seed, Synthesis, and Spiky Shield to gather Leftovers/Leech Seed recovery, so you have plenty of options there. It's one of the few Pokemon that walls Crawdaunt, which is a huge deal, and with Spiky Shield, it provides a great check to most of the choiced attackers in the tier, including Darmanitan, Victini, Chandelure (and if it locks into Shadow Ball or Energy Ball, you can stay in because of Bulletproof), Heracross, etc. Just in general having something that can pivot into Knock Off users throughout the match is so fucking valuable, and without Weavile in the tier, you can come in on all of the common offensive users of the move. Roserade is also fantastic, and they definitely compete for a teamslot. But they also wall and can set up on totally different things, so I don't think it's fair to compare them too extensively. Different teams will need either of them depending on the support that Pokemon has from its teammates. Having said that, I wouldn't be opposed to it dropping down to A-rank for that reason, but I also wouldn't mind Roserade moving up to A+.

Some other briefer thoughts:

Doublade is awful, and it definitely doesn't cut it in A-. Mega Medicham and Terrakion being banned means that its biggest niches are out the door, and it just doesn't wall anything. I mean, really, look through all of S- and A-rank. The list of things it can consistently wall is: Florges, Crobat, and Chansey. It also has no recovery, and it absolutely hates getting smacked with a Knock Off (which is what keeps it from walling a decent number of the things that it doesn't wall in S- and A-rank). It has no recovery, meaning it relies on either RestTalk (which is bad on it) or Wish to keep it healthy throughout the match. And it doesn't hit very hard at all. I really don't see any reason to use it in this metagame, and it should probably drop down to C+ at the most.

Why is Mega Houndoom in S? This actually isn't a sarcastic question. I haven't seen much of it, and I've never had any desire to use it. Any particular set that's making waves atm?

Avalugg probably shouldn't be in B- either. I'd much rather use Mega Blastoise as a spinner or Zadpos/Latias as a hazard remover before ever using Avalugg, and it has awful typing. Reliable recovery is cool, but I don't see it having many opportunities to do anything.

Same goes for Hitmontop. I tried it out on a team, and it was terrible. I thought it would make a nice Dark-type check, but it really doesn't. Life Orb Crawdaunt has a 90% chance to 2HKO it after Stealth Rock and Leftovers with Crabhammer, and Choice Band Crawdaunt does it easily. If it switches into Knock Off, it loses its only form of recovery, making it really easy to take out later on. It checks other Dark-types a bit better, but if your Dark check can't check the scariest Dark-type in the tier, I wouldn't bother using it.

What niche puts Dusknoir and Dusclops even in D-rank? I can't see a reason to use them ever.

 

[Marisson]

I'm just curious, but why shuckle is ranked ?

 

[zeriloa]

Maybe i'm missing something, but i don't see why ninjask is in the same rank or above things like cofagrigus, shaymin, and dugtrio. imo its d rank, i'd never use it on a serious team.

 

[Shiruba]

I'm just curious, but why shuckle is ranked ?

Sticky Web.

 

[Schpoonman]

I'm just curious, but why shuckle is ranked ?

Sticky Web. Even with its shit-tier HP and complete sacrifice of momentum, it's pretty much the only user in the game that can put it up more than once. Galvantula and Smeargle, the obviously superior users of it, are both OU.

Shiruba, you ass, I tabbed away for like 15 seconds.

 

[Oddish is the best]

IMO Brozong needs to drop to C+ rank.

It is completely eclisplised by Jirachi and Metagross as a fellow steel/psychics and just really isn't as effective this gen, especially with steel nerf.

Jolteon C>>>>>>>>> C+ Yes I know that everyone "hates" Jolteon and it is completely outclassed by mega manetric but it still has base 130 speed and 110 SPA so I think it is one of the best of the 'mons that are C because they're outclassed.

Gorebyss B->>>>>>>>> C It does one thing and one thing only. Anybody who know's the game know's what it's gonna do. It's frail and slow and has a difficult time setting up shell smash even on fire types

Ninjask B->>>>>>>>>>>C Same reasoning as Gorebyss really

Shuckle and Leavanny (Or maybe just Leavany) B+>>>>>>> B- They fill the sticky web niche and that's really it. Lowest of the low for filling an admittedly important niche. (Which prevents them from going into C like 'Byss and Ninjask)

Noivern B+>>>>>>>>>>> B- Noivern is fast and moderately powerful and that's about it. It's flying STAB has 70% accuracy while dragon is no longer what it once was. It's also pretty frail so anything that can take a hit can probably KO it back.


IDK those are just some random thoughts plus take a serious look at Shaymin while you're at it because it really has saved my bacon multiple times...

 

[the mystery duck]

Maybe i'm missing something, but i don't see why ninjask is in the same rank or above things like cofagrigus, shaymin, and dugtrio. imo its d rank, i'd never use it on a serious team.

It's most likely there due to its CB infiltrator set, as I can't really imagine it being there for its baton pass set (which I also think is kinda bad). Ninjask's attack is deceptively good due to running adamant almost all the time (depends if you want to outspeed scarf chandy/Rotom forms and hit them with night slash and u-turn respectively) and still outspeeding the unboosted metagame since mega-aero likes to run adamant as well. SR isn't as much as a problem for it due to the tier having good rapid spinners and defoggers.

Also, can someone explain why Shaymin and Meloetta are in C+? Both seem to fit the description of B rank much more than C rank.

 

[panamaxis]

Doublade is awful, and it definitely doesn't cut it in A-. Mega Medicham and Terrakion being banned means that its biggest niches are out the door, and it just doesn't wall anything. I mean, really, look through all of S- and A-rank. The list of things it can consistently wall is: Florges, Crobat, and Chansey. It also has no recovery, and it absolutely hates getting smacked with a Knock Off (which is what keeps it from walling a decent number of the things that it doesn't wall in S- and A-rank). It has no recovery, meaning it relies on either RestTalk (which is bad on it) or Wish to keep it healthy throughout the match. And it doesn't hit very hard at all. I really don't see any reason to use it in this metagame, and it should probably drop down to C+ at the most.

Agreed, doublade in A- seemed weird to me too for the reasons you've said.

Why is Mega Houndoom in S? This actually isn't a sarcastic question. I haven't seen much of it, and I've never had any desire to use it. Any particular set that's making waves atm?

NP Fire Blast Dark Pulse [filler, destiny bond, sucker punch, hidden power etc.] is the set I've seen a lot and it's really good. 115 Speed outspeeds a lot of the metagame and it scares quite a number of pokemon out / can set up on stuff like chandelure, celebi, mew so getting a Nasty Plot isn't too hard. Once it gets the NP it's pretty difficult to take it on if you don't resist its STABs. Even stuff like defensive suicune which you'd expect to do pretty decently vs houndoom can't OHKO it after SR with scald. It's very good IMO, you should try it out.

No comment on the other guys in Treecko's post, haven't seen enough of them to have a completely informed opinion yet.

IMO Brozong needs to drop to C+ rank.
It is completely eclisplised by Jirachi and Metagross as a fellow steel/psychics and just really isn't as effective this gen, especially with steel nerf.

I wouldn't say that Bronzong is completely eclipsed by Jirachi and Metagrosss, levitate is pretty huge which means that bronzong is a complete counter to zygarde whereas Metagross and Jirachi would never consider switching into it. Same goes for a lot of other ground types like Rhyperior.

 

[Limitless]

Chesnaught is amazing. It has fantastic longevity with Leech Seed, Synthesis, and Spiky Shield to gather Leftovers/Leech Seed recovery, so you have plenty of options there. It's one of the few Pokemon that walls Crawdaunt, which is a huge deal, and with Spiky Shield, it provides a great check to most of the choiced attackers in the tier, including Darmanitan, Victini, Chandelure (and if it locks into Shadow Ball or Energy Ball, you can stay in because of Bulletproof), Heracross, etc. Just in general having something that can pivot into Knock Off users throughout the match is so fucking valuable, and without Weavile in the tier, you can come in on all of the common offensive users of the move. Roserade is also fantastic, and they definitely compete for a teamslot. But they also wall and can set up on totally different things, so I don't think it's fair to compare them too extensively. Different teams will need either of them depending on the support that Pokemon has from its teammates. Having said that, I wouldn't be opposed to it dropping down to A-rank for that reason, but I also wouldn't mind Roserade moving up to A+.

Some other briefer thoughts:

Doublade is awful, and it definitely doesn't cut it in A-. Mega Medicham and Terrakion being banned means that its biggest niches are out the door, and it just doesn't wall anything. I mean, really, look through all of S- and A-rank. The list of things it can consistently wall is: Florges, Crobat, and Chansey. It also has no recovery, and it absolutely hates getting smacked with a Knock Off (which is what keeps it from walling a decent number of the things that it doesn't wall in S- and A-rank). It has no recovery, meaning it relies on either RestTalk (which is bad on it) or Wish to keep it healthy throughout the match. And it doesn't hit very hard at all. I really don't see any reason to use it in this metagame, and it should probably drop down to C+ at the most.

Why is Mega Houndoom in S? This actually isn't a sarcastic question. I haven't seen much of it, and I've never had any desire to use it. Any particular set that's making waves atm?

Avalugg probably shouldn't be in B- either. I'd much rather use Mega Blastoise as a spinner or Zadpos/Latias as a hazard remover before ever using Avalugg, and it has awful typing. Reliable recovery is cool, but I don't see it having many opportunities to do anything.

Same goes for Hitmontop. I tried it out on a team, and it was terrible. I thought it would make a nice Dark-type check, but it really doesn't. Life Orb Crawdaunt has a 90% chance to 2HKO it after Stealth Rock and Leftovers with Crabhammer, and Choice Band Crawdaunt does it easily. If it switches into Knock Off, it loses its only form of recovery, making it really easy to take out later on. It checks other Dark-types a bit better, but if your Dark check can't check the scariest Dark-type in the tier, I wouldn't bother using it.

What niche puts Dusknoir and Dusclops even in D-rank? I can't see a reason to use them ever.

Doublade isn't nearly as bad as you make it out to be. It is one of the best, if not the best Hawlucha counter. And trust me, there are few counters to Red Card Hawlucha. In regards to the particular set, it should be a bulky spin blocker. I'm not too sure on the particular set (probably depends on team composition), but it's something that, in theory, seems like a staple in the future of this metagame. Of course, I haven't seen many Doublades used correctly, but with Hawlucha gaining prominence, I definitely see an A- rank being applicable. It also counters Scarf Mienshao, so yet another reason. I moved it down though.

Mega Houndoom is unbelievable, given that it can break almost every special wall. It also gets to a ridiculous speed after it evolves. There are many posts on how broken it is, I think anyway. And if not, expect many, because it's pretty much being spammed on the ladder at the moment.

I moved Avalugg and Hitmontop down, a long with some other minor moves.

It's most likely there due to its CB infiltrator set, as I can't really imagine it being there for its baton pass set (which I also think is kinda bad). Ninjask's attack is deceptively good due to running adamant almost all the time (depends if you want to outspeed scarf chandy/Rotom forms and hit them with night slash and u-turn respectively) and still outspeeding the unboosted metagame since mega-aero likes to run adamant as well. SR isn't as much as a problem for it due to the tier having good rapid spinners and defoggers.

Also, can someone explain why Shaymin and Meloetta are in C+? Both seem to fit the description of B rank much more than C rank.

I had a complete change of heart with Shaymin, as oh my God that thing is good. I immedietly moved it to B+ after it broke through both my Florges and specially defensive Mew. If a Pokemon can do that, maybe it deserves even a better rank than I have currently given it. And most people probably don't know, but it also has access to Dazzling Gleam, which is simply amazing against Dragons and Fighting types.

As for Meloetta, not enough of us have used it to really get a grasp of where it should go. Expect a solid rank for it in the coming week, though.

edit: I also moved Chandy down to A+ from S, as Hydreigon and Mega Houndoom have pushed its usage down.

 

[C AllStar]

Having survivability doesn't mean anything when Chesnaught has poor matchup against huge portion of the tier.

Chandelure : Lol

Hawlucha : SD bait

Houndoom : Houndoom can't switch in on Hammer Arm, but roasts it easily.

Hydriegon : Both Fire Blast and Draco roasts it

Slowbro : Only if it doesn't carry Fire Blast or Ice Beam or Psychic...

Suicune : Wood Hammer varients does modetately well against Crocune, provided it isn't burned... Offensive CM sets wreck it though

Mega Blastoise : Ice Beam nearly OHKOs

Celebi : Celebi can't do anything without Psychic but Psychic is common and Chesnaught cannot do jack to it anyway

Crawdaunt : Hard counters

Damanitan : Lol

Florges : Walls and kills

Keldeo : Does okay but Specs Hydro Pump has a chance to 2HKO aftet rocks (neglected by Spiky Shield) while LO Hydro Pump + hp ice can even 2HKO after Spiky Shield

Latias : I guess it can survive one hit... + Defog bait

Mew : STAB Psychic + Defog bait

Victini : Lol

Zapdos : Heat Wave + Defog bait

Chansey : Chansey can only Toxic (crippling) or S-toss while Hammet Arm hits it hars and can set up spikes. But walling Chansey is a huge feat i guess...

Heracross : Sort of walls scarf (not quite well), but CB and SD wrecks it

Hippowdon : Walls hippo like everything resists ground...

Jirachi : Chesnaught cannot do anything while Trick from Scarf cripples it. Zen Headbutt hurts too.

Kyurem : Ice Beam

Mienshao : Shaky check since it (barely) avoids a 2HKO from High Jump Kick with Spiky Shield. However, Spiky Shield can be taken advantage by SubShao and SD Mienshao, which can be extremely dangerous

Nidoking : Sludge Wave / Fire Blast / Ice Beam

Reuniclus : Lol

Roserade : Lol

Tornadus-T : Lol

Zygarde : Cool check to DD varients without LO but SubCoil sets up on it

Mega Absol : Okay check but Fire Blast does up to 70% and Play Rough hits quite hard

Mega Aggron : Walls each other though Chesnaught is as advantage with recovery provided Aggron doesn't have Rest. Max attack Avalanche 2HKOs though it isn't realisticlly happening

Azelf : Lol

Crobat : Lol

Doublade : Walls SD with leech seed but loses to defensive varients with Toxic and Rest

Empoleon : Walls defensive but offensive SR wrecks it with Ice Beam

Entei : Lol

Haxorus : Can stop neither DD nor SD varients

Krookodile : Hard Counters

Machamp : Haxchamp is unbeatable

Magnezone : Speca Analytic Flash Cannon OHKOs if it dare to switch in and 2HKOs anyway while Hammer Arm fails to do enough

Mega Manectric : Flamethrower 2HKOs

Metagross : Zen Headbutt 2HKOs withour Spiky Shield, but still wins anyway

Toxicroak : That Gunk Shot buff

Out of the 42 S/A Ranks, Chesnaught does great against 3 of them, one of them being a wall, and does moderately well against some sets of another 9. It then loses straight against the rest. I don't find something that loses to majority of the tier good even it has some cool support options.

Moreover, Chesnaught suffers from 4mss. It needs both STABs to check what it is supposed to check. Synthesis is reliable recovery. Spikes is a great support option. Leech seed provides recovery and is needed to beat certain opponents while Spiky Shield helps scouting and more recovery.

Speaking of Spiky Shield, while it is cool, it is easy to take advantage of. Choiced attackers won't predict against Cheanaughr since Spiky Shield is obvious. The Chandelure using Shadow Ball is most probably non-choiced and ready to roast Chesnaught with Fire Blast. While this involves prediction, the opponent can possibly set up on Spiky shield, proceeding to cause major damage afterwards.

Chesnaught certainly cannot sweep or wall a significant portion of the tier and it fails to support the team with spikes usually. It only fufills a niche as a Knock Off absorber. Leech seed + Spiky Shield may be annoying, but also easy to take advantage of. B- Rank is a better position for it.

 

[Loudo]

I see that no base formes of Mega Pokémon are in the list. Is this because Megas and their base formes are ranked together (like in the Uber thread)? If so, I think it should be made clear for example by using both sprites.
If not, there are many base formes that deserve to be ranked. Blastoise in particular is probably the strongest argument for treating Megas as specific sets. That Leftovers recovery is pretty handy for a spinner that is not immune to any entry hazard and has no other way to heal itself. From my experience, Mega Blastoise tends to get one Rapid Spin before residual and direct damage take their tool and it becomes unable to do anything before fainting. While Blastoisinite is clearly the best item for offensive sets, I'd argue that normal Blastoise is at least as good as Mega Blastoise with defensive spreads.

 

[WhinoTheRhino]

I'd like to nominate Zygarde for A+ rank. Zygarde's bulk allows him to check so many threats, and his versatility is amazing. He can run Dragon Dance, Sub-Coil, or even Para-Shuffler (Glare/Dragon Tail). Sets with Dragon Tail are useful to check Hawlucha to get rid of it's Unburden boost for good, and Zygarde can set up on so many different pokemon due to his 108/121/95 bulk. I want to draw attention to his Para-Shuffler set, as I have not seen it very much but have used it to great success. The set usually consists of Glare/Substitute/Dragon Tail/Earthquake. The point of the set is to set up a sub (which is easy with Zygarde's defences), and just Glare and Dragon Tail away. The opponent is constantly under pressure from either Paralysis (and Ground-types aren't immune, although Electric-types are) or Phazing. The Para-Shuffling set can rack up a lot of damage, especially with Stealth Rock in play. For example, if Dragon Tail brought in a pokemon that would be crippled under Paralysis, the opponent is faced with a difficult choice. Either switch and rack up more entry-hazard damage (with the threat of another Dragon Tail phazing out the switch-in anyways) or attacking, under the threat of Glare. The set is almost the UU equivalent of the awesome Para-Shuffling Dragonite, although not quite as good, as Zygarde does not have Multiscale.

In short, nominating Zygarde for A+.