XY UU Viability Ranking Thread

[Kingpoleon]

Nominating Dusclops and Dusknoir to be removed from list. I'd like to know what these two do that Cofag or Doublade can't. They're extreme setup bait for anything with a Substitute. I don't really get what niche any of the current D-Rankers have that can't be performed better by something else, honestly..apart from Shedinja which is also extremely flawed

Have you read the C Rank description? 'Completely eclipsed by a Pokemon in a higher rank...' They fit that perfectly. I do not think they are at all the best at what they do, or even good in UU. However, Dusknoir should ALWAYS be used over Dusclops(which I agree should be off the list, due to being eclipsed by what should be a C Rank), and should be moved to C- Rank.
In short
Dusknoir> C- Rank
Dusclops> Fail Rank
Moving on, SD Celebi(not Pass) is really good, and what keeps it A Rank. It breaks through Victini(which people never expect), Suicune, Keldeo, Chansey, Slowbro, Blastoise, Slowking, Florges, Latias, Chesnaught, Hippowdon, Toxicroak(ALL OF THESE ARE THE S/A Pokemon IT CAN RELIABLY COUNTER) and can really sweep teams without MAggron/non Psychic or Ghost Fire type.

 

[trc]

Have you read the C Rank description? 'Completely eclipsed by a Pokemon in a higher rank...' They fit that perfectly. I do not think they are at all the best at what they do, or even good in UU. However, Dusknoir should ALWAYS be used over Dusclops(which I agree should be off the list, due to being eclipsed by what should be a C Rank), and should be moved to C- Rank.
In short
Dusknoir> C- Rank
Dusclops> Fail Rank
Moving on, SD Celebi(not Pass) is really good, and what keeps it A Rank. It breaks through Victini(which people never expect), Suicune, Keldeo, Chansey, Slowbro, Blastoise, Slowking, Florges, Latiqs, Chesnaught and can really sweep teams without MAggron/non Psychic or Ghost Fire type.

Why should Dusknoir be used over Dusclops? Dusclops has better bulk, which is the only thing you'd ever use either of them for. Last gen, Dusclops was UU while Dusknoir was RU, and both were bad in their respective tiers.

 

[ScraftyIsTheBest]

Dusknoir has an incredible number of problems. First off, while it has some good looking stats, those stats are actually very deceptive. For starters, Dusknoir is very weak. 100 Attack might seem cool on paper, but that is offset when you realize your strongest STAB move has a whopping 60 Base Power, and your other viable STAB has 40 BP, further lowering Dusknoir's damage output. Furthermore, Dusknoir also relies on low Base Power moves for coverage; aside from Earthquake, none of Dusknoir's moves have more than 80 Base Power, which is quite subpar. The only other powerful move Dusknoir has is Focus Punch, is is horribly unreliable and can only be used in a SubPunch set (which is not a good idea, ever). Dusknoir doesn't even come close to 2HKOing reasonably bulky targets that can take at least neutral damage from it, and because of this, Dusknoir struggles to deal any damage at all.

Aside from Dusknoir's lack of power, it isn't that bulky because of its abysmal HP. Dusknoir can very easily get 2HKOed by very powerful attacks like Knock Off from Krookodile or Shadow Ball from Chandelure, or other reasonably strong moves. This is further hurt by the fact that Dusknoir lacks a reliable recovery option outside of Pain Split, which is fairly unreliable and can easily be played around by using Substitute or sending in a Pokemon low on HP. Yes, Rest is a more reliable recovery option now that the sleep mechanics are back to those of DPP, however, this spends two valuable moveslots on Dusknoir, and it needs every moveslot it can get.

Aside from its stat issues, Dusknoir doesn't really do anything the other Ghosts can't. Let's take a look at another bulky Ghost who has some similarities to Dusknoir stat wise, Cofagrigus. Like last gen, Cofagrigus is literally better than Dusknoir in every way for a number of reasons. Cofagrigus is bulkier than Dusknoir thanks to higher HP and Defense, and while its special bulk is worse, it's still mildly passable. Cofagrigus also has a reasonably strong Shadow Ball coming off of a usable 95 Special Attack, and can go offensive thanks to Nasty Plot. It can run Shadow Ball and Hidden Power Fighting and can afford to sweep teams. What does Dusknoir do? Burn stuff? Sorry, but other Ghosts like Jellicent, Cofagrigus, and Gourgeist can do that too. Jellicent also is bulkier than Dusknoir, has a rage inducing Scald, which is amazing and annoying, and also has reliable recovery in Recover. Gourgeist also has Leech Seed, if memory serves right, and can pull off more things than Dusknoir ever could. Heck, even Dusclops is more useful because it has better bulk so it walls better than Dusknoir, and can at least stall with Curse or Infestation. Not like Dusclops is good either, but still.

Honestly, there isn't much Dusknoir can do well at all. Despite its stats, it cannot wall well and it does not hit hard. Everything you could be using Dusknoir for, something else already can accomplish or even do it better. All it can do is maybe get off some surprise damage, which is not a good argument for viability.

TL;DR: Dusknoir is just not viable. Yeah sure it can take hits and do some damage here or there, but anything can do that. Leave Dusknoir unranked.

 

[steviestar]

...why is Articuno on this list at all? I guess Defog helped it a little, but I must be really missing something if it's suddenly become good enough to be used outside of NU.

Ernesto edit: And Freeze-Dry. I think it has something to do with someone getting high on the ladder with it, but I haven't faced it or played with it so I can't tell.

 

[EonX]

Yeah, Dusknoir was terrible in RU last gen and I don't see the value of it in UU this gen. It's hard enough to make a case for Dusclops... Anyway, on to a couple of things:

Mega Manectric: While I don't believe it to be an S rank mon, I do feel it's on par with many of the A rank mons. It has great Speed and Special Attack, Intimidate, Volt Switch, coverage in Flamethrower / Overheat, and a great cleaning move in Thunderbolt. It's a great offensive Mega, arguably the best in the tier (though Mega Houndoom would have a say about that) and I can't believe that it's only as good as many of the A- rank mons. Intimidate lets it hold up against many of the top tier physical attackers long enough to beat them. I feel it should be A rank just for the many roles it can fill on offensive and balanced teams alike.

Mega Aggron: Seriously, why is this thing A-? It beats so many of the physical attackers in the tier and has such good synergy with Latias, Vaporeon, Slowbro, and Zapdos; aka, the 4 Pokemon that generally handle what physical threats Aggron can't. If you fully (or heavily as I do) invest in special bulk, it can take a surprising number of special attacks as well. Florges and Vaporeon both have Wish and Aromatherapy (Heal Bell for Vaporeon) to give Mega Aggron all the support it needs to avoid using RestTalk. Vappy is a bit more balanced defensively while Florges deals with quite a few special attackers Aggron doesn't handle well due to coverage. Heavy Slam hits really hard, even without investment, and it has great coverage and support options with stuff like Thunder Wave, Dragon Tail, Toxic, Stealth Rock, Roar, and the elemental punches. More balanced / offensive teams love Aggron's ability to force hard hitting attackers out and paralyzing them while stall teams can take advantage of the fact that Mega Aggron can cripple and / or beat most Defog users without much trouble with Toxic and Heavy Slam. I would say it deserves to at least be A+ rank or even S rank, though it may require a tad too much support for an S rank 'mon.

 

[Jvasss]

i think that medacham should have some sort of ranking, although it is certainly hurt by its loss of mega evo it still hits hard, i havent used it but i presume that it has some sort of niche in this current meta. i am not nominating any particualr rank, just sying that it should be ranked because it is viable in uu.
I would also like some explanation as to why heliolisk is ranked as B+. what does it do better than raikou or jolteon other than switch into scald?
Lastly i would like some explanation for the ranking of drapion. i am not saying it is bad i simply haven't seen or used it and want to know what it does( i presume pursuit trap) and what makes it B rank.
i would also say that seeing that sub red card hawlucha doesnt work the way ps programmed it to, it should be moved down to A rank. That was by far its best set, particularly againts defensive teams, it basically got a free sd and unburden boost by subbing on a predicted switch. i haven't used the other sets that much so they may be better than what i think, but without a sub hawlucha really struggles in my experience.

 

[Arceus_17]

I must ask this: why is Articuno even in the list?
Articuno was horrible last gen and XY gave the arctic bird 3 new things: Defog, Freeze Dry and Assault Vest.
With a x4 weakness to Stealth Rock and a horrible defensive typing, Articuno doesn't seem to be the best user of Defog, specially compared to much more versatile Pokémon like Zapdos, Mew, Latias and even Empoleon.
While I can see Freeze Dry doing OK in offensive sets by scoring super effective damage on bulky Water-types that like to switch in, I just don't think that's enough to grant him a spot in UU...
That leaves us with the Assault Vest set, which should be the reason why Articuno was ranked C-. I admit it looks quite impressive considering its already high base 125 Speecial Defense. That set would be something like this:

@ Assault Vest
Trait: Pressure
Ev's: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
- U-Turn
- Ice Beam
- Hurricane
- Freeze-Dry


252 SpA Life Orb Latias Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Articuno: 101-121 (26.3 - 31.5%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Tornadus-T Hurricane vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Articuno: 99-117 (25.7 - 30.4%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Thundurus-T Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Articuno: 198-234 (51.5 - 60.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Chandelure Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Articuno: 266-314 (69.2 - 81.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Sadly, despite tanking the most powerful special hits in the tier, Articuno gets worn down extremely easily and has trouble to deal significant damage with uninvested 95 SpA.

Despite loving the guardian of the frozen forests, I'd suggest unranked or rank D at very best.

 

[DiscoDucky]

Nominating Snorlax from B+ to A.

Snorlax still does what he's known for doing in Gen. V: Check Specially based Pokemon as well as Fire-typed Pokemon. As I was going through the A-list of Pokemon, I saw that a majority of the Pokemon were Specially based, which Snorlax can handle perfectly. The trademark Choice Band set from last Generation still works really well in taking out a majority of UU's Specially based and Fire-type Pokemon. Being able to hard-check Houndoom-Mega and soft-check Hydreigon is certainly a big threat to both of these S-ranked Pokemon. Although it has large flaws that prevent him from being straight-up amazing, such as his vulnerability to status and lack of reliable recovery, and thus prevent him from being an A+ rank Pokemon, his unique niche is big enough in UU where he can be deemed a A or A- threat.

 

[Kadabrium]

I still dont see how venomoth is lower than vivillon.
Setting up Vivillon is just so difficult that it in most cases have to use sleep powder first turn. This and dat troll speed combined pretty much means that anything scarfed or with priority revenges it
I d still vivillon be C and Venomoth B+ at least.

 

[Kadabrium]

Fletchinder is also a usable niche pokemon
Although it doesnt get brave bird, a SE Acrobatics still OHKOs many offensive threats below the 100/100 bulk tier, which is the only thing its supposed to do anyway.
It could be at 1 rank below ditto, around C.

 

[DiscoDucky]

Fletchinder is also a usable niche pokemon
Although it doesnt get brave bird, a SE Acrobatics still OHKOs many offensive threats below the 100/100 bulk tier, which is the only thing its supposed to do anyway.
It could be at 1 rank below ditto, around C.

Please provide calcs. I'm pretty sure Acrobatics coming off of a Base 73 Attack ain't KOing shit.

 

[Toljik]

252 Atk Fletchinder Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Chandelure: 135-159 (51.7 - 60.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Fletchinder Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Darmanitan: 199-235 (56.6 - 66.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Fletchinder Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Machamp: 294-348 (91.5 - 108.4%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO

It's not 1HKOing anything not weak to Flying without a boost.

 

[Kadabrium]

Please provide calcs. I'm pretty sure Acrobatics coming off of a Base 73 Attack and KOing shit.

252+ Atk Fletchinder Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Toxicroak: 384-452 (103.7 - 122.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Fletchinder Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Hawlucha: 336-396 (93.3 - 110%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Fletchinder Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Keldeo: 296-350 (91.6 - 108.3%) -- 50% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Fletchinder Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Machamp: 324-384 (84.3 - 100%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Fletchinder Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Scrafty: 240-284 (88.5 - 104.7%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO

Which also include most 4x SEs, bugs and Mienshao, Medicham etc. Doing half damage to the average neutral offensive pokemon while outspeeding most remaining priorities isnt bad et al

 

[DiscoDucky]

a SE Acrobatics still OHKOs many offensive threats below the 100/100 bulk tier

How convenient that everything in that post above is weak to Flying..

Besides, the fact that Acrobatics only KOs the aforementioned Pokemon some of the time is kind of depressing considering you're making an argument that's pro-Fletch

 

[Kadabrium]

How convenient that everything in that post above is weak to Flying..

Besides, the fact that Acrobatics only KOs the aforementioned Pokemon some of the time is kind of depressing considering you're making an argument that's pro-Fletch

I did say in the OP a SE Acrobatics., ,so this part rly isnt my problem
even if this alone isnt enough to make it good which is the point.

It hits just a bit harder than choice band ninjask (lol)
252+ Atk Ninjask Choice Band Aerial Ace vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Medicham: 288-342 (110.3 - 131%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Fletchinder Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Medicham: 308-366 (118 - 140.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO

 

[Kingpoleon]

Why should Dusknoir be used over Dusclops? Dusclops has better bulk, which is the only thing you'd ever use either of them for. Last gen, Dusclops was UU while Dusknoir was RU, and both were bad in their respective tiers.

Knock Off, attacking decently well, etc. I said it before, I'll say it again. You should base it off what the rank says, not how bad/good it is. I agree, it is outclassed. Setting up TR, Burning, ResTalking? use Cofagrigus. But C Rank says in it 'entirely eclipsed'. Since that is the wording I will stick to that.

 

[Mazz]

Fletchinder is also a usable niche pokemon
Although it doesn't get brave bird, a SE Acrobatics still OHKOs many offensive threats below the 100/100 bulk tier, which is the only thing its supposed to do anyway.
It could be at 1 rank below ditto, around C.

Nothing against you Kadabruim, but this is probably the worst nomination I've seen in this thread so far - Dusclops and Dusknoir at the very most could make F-Rank, as their typing and stats do give them a fractional amount of merit in XY UU (they still shouldn't make the list however). It's evident that you're trying to help add to this list, but you should probably familiarize yourself with the tier first. Unlike those two however, Fletchinder has zero merit in the XY UU Metagame, as it is beyond outclassed by anything that carries a Flying-type move. Both Tornadus formes are available, Crobat is available, Hawlucha is available, so what reason is there to ever consider using Fletchinder? It doesn't get Flare Blitz, and it's best bet at maneuvering around Steel-types is a Fire Blast coming from a paltry base 56 Special Attack stat. I see no reason to even bring this Pokemon up for whatever reason, as literally everything it could do, or hope of doing, is done better by so many other Flying-types in this tier. None of which share Fletchinder's 4x weakness to Stealth Rock either (unless you're running Moltres, which isn't nearly as bad). The only reason I could ever see to use one is on a Baton Pass chain just to abuse Gale Wings when backed by a tremendous amount of boosts. Final verdict? Do not rank Fletchinder, it is terrible. Kadabrium, I recommend you hop on the IRC channel #xyuu. Myself and a ton of other veteran members are there, meaning there's an opportunity there for you to better yourself with the game and provide better nominations.

I'll take this time to respond to your stance on Vivillon vs Venomoth, and I don't entirely agree with you. While I agree Vivillon shouldn't be ranked higher than Venomoth, I believe they should be ranked equally. Vivillon has access to Compound Eyes, making both Sleep Powder and Hurricane significantly more accurate, which is a huge boon for what it tries to accomplish. At the same time, Venomoth is partially immune to moves such as Roar and Taunt thanks to Wonder Skin, which can make setting up significantly easier. Each individual Pokemon has their pros, and both essentially share the same cons, so I see no reason for these two not to be ranked together. They're essentially the same Pokemon, just with two slightly contrasting upsides. B-Rank for both Venomoth and Vivillon.

Uhh, and I don't have much of a position on Dusknoir, but simply because of the buff to Knock Off, I'd be okay with it in D-Rank. Anything with Knock Off and any usable combination of typing, stats, or movepool should be able to crack this list, even if on the lower end.

 

[C AllStar]

Mega Manectric:

I am really torn on this one. On one hand, it is a great offensive pivot that has great coverage. It really excells in weakening enenies early game and cleaning up late game. Intimidate is an awesome ability that gives incredible amount of switch ins and even let it be a immergency check to any physical attackers.

However, what really held it back is its lack of power. Anything with decent special bulk can wall it to hell and back despite being weak to its move. Specially defensive Celebi and Jirachi walls it while Jellicent barely takes 60% from Thunderbolt, meaning it can possibly stall it out if Manectric is hit by status on the switch. It also fails to 2HKO CroCune after a boost while Suicune deals heavy damage to it with Scald. Another thing that deserves mention is hp grass has no chance to OHKO PHYSICALLY DEFENSIVE Rhyperior.

Overall, Mega Manectric's speed and coverage makes it a theeat to offense while Intimidate adds in utility. However, it is really reliant on hazard control to function in its full potential. I can't really decide on A/A- but a bit lean on A.

Mega Aggron :

Mega Aggron is incredible. Heavy Slam hits really hard that it 2HKOs Latias without investment. Its typing actually suits for special walling, walling top threats like Latias, SubCM Jirachi, Superpower Tornadus-T, Roserade etc while still being a catch-all physical wall.

Its movepool is what makes it shines. Offensively, STAB + EdgeQuake + Superpower + elemental punches can all be fit into movesets in order to tailor it to beat certain threats for thw team. Supportively, it has SR, T-wave, Toxic, phazing which gives it flexibility to support is team.

To give an idea on how flexible is its moveset, I'm running an Aggron with Rest/Roar/Heavy Slam/Ice Punch. Ice Punch nails Zygarde, Haxorus trying to set up while Roar beats those already have while surviving a boosted Earthquake. This solves my teams weakness to DD Dragons. Rest gives it survivibility and I pair it with a cleric. However, it isn't totally reliant on cleric support as it usually can easily survive till wake up. Definitely A+ for Mega Aggron.

Drapion:

I have actually tested Drapion these two days with a AV set with Knock Off/Pursuit/Cross Poison/Earthquake investing max Atk max SpDef and have mixed feelings on it. Positively, it does actually traps Latias and hurts Zapdos and Mega Blatoise, allowing my spikr stacking offensive team to function. However, its special bulk still sucks even with AV and max SpDef, taking ~60% to LO Draco Meteor from Latias. This means that it needs to be kept in best condition for it to do its job. Maybe I'm not using it right but I can't really determine its ranking now.

 

[Aragorn the King]

Can we please move Porygon2 up to B- rank at worst? Its bulk is absolutely incredible, all of its abilities are very viable, and hit hits very hard. Its main problem lies with hard hitting fighting types and knock off users. Now that Weavile is banned, Porygon2 is much more viable than ever this Generation. To be honest, I think of it as an B+/A- defensive threat, but I doubt anyone would agree with me there.


-------

Mega Manectric:

I am really torn on this one. On one hand, it is a great offensive pivot that has great coverage. It really excells in weakening enenies early game and cleaning up late game. Intimidate is an awesome ability that gives incredible amount of switch ins and even let it be a immergency check to any physical attackers.

However, what really held it back is its lack of power. Anything with decent special bulk can wall it to hell and back despite being weak to its move. Specially defensive Celebi and Jirachi walls it while Jellicent barely takes 60% from Thunderbolt, meaning it can possibly stall it out if Manectric is hit by status on the switch. It also fails to 2HKO CroCune after a boost while Suicune deals heavy damage to it with Scald. Another thing that deserves mention is hp grass has no chance to OHKO PHYSICALLY DEFENSIVE Rhyperior.

Overall, Mega Manectric's speed and coverage makes it a theeat to offense while Intimidate adds in utility. However, it is really reliant on hazard control to function in its full potential. I can't really decide on A/A- but a bit lean on A.

Mega Aggron :

Mega Aggron is incredible. Heavy Slam hits really hard that it 2HKOs Latias without investment. Its typing actually suits for special walling, walling top threats like Latias, SubCM Jirachi, Superpower Tornadus-T, Roserade etc while still being a catch-all physical wall.

Its movepool is what makes it shines. Offensively, STAB + EdgeQuake + Superpower + elemental punches can all be fit into movesets in order to tailor it to beat certain threats for thw team. Supportively, it has SR, T-wave, Toxic, phazing which gives it flexibility to support is team.

To give an idea on how flexible is its moveset, I'm running an Aggron with Rest/Roar/Heavy Slam/Ice Punch. Ice Punch nails Zygarde, Haxorus trying to set up while Roar beats those already have while surviving a boosted Earthquake. This solves my teams weakness to DD Dragons. Rest gives it survivibility and I pair it with a cleric. However, it isn't totally reliant on cleric support as it usually can easily survive till wake up. Definitely A+ for Mega Aggron.

Totally agree with A+ for Mega Aggron, and I'd support A for Mega Manectric.

 

[Melons-N-Soda]

I personally think base-Aggron should be ranked, because it can tank well, especially in sand, and Rock Head base-Aggron with Head Smash can be used to check Mega Houndoom, Chandelure and other Pokemon. The only problem is that base-Aggron has a much worse defensive typing, and it's special bulk makes it completely vulnerable to ALL Special Attacker, even if you run a gimmicky Assault Vest set. I see it as D-rank, because it does have it's own nice niches (Which is part of the D Rank description), but why would you use it over Mega Aggron in all other cases? It also is kinda outclassed by Base-Aerodactyl when it comes to a Rock Head sweeper like thing, but I'm not sure if Aero gets HS or not.

 

[Mazz]

why would you use it over Mega Aggron in all other cases?

Head Smash without recoil, which is actually pretty amazing. It has Automatize and could bluff a Mega-Aggron, but beyond that however, it's a poor man's Rhyperior. D-Rank would suit it fine as a standalone.

And I still stand behind keeping Dusclops off of the viability ranking list. This thing is horrendously outclassed, and simply does not belong in this tier anymore. Crobat, Jellicent, Cofagrigus, Gourgeist, Chandelure, Nidoqueen, Toxicroak, Doublade, Mismagius, Slowbro, Gardevoir, Weezing, and Mega-Banette already have Fighting-types beyond covered. Hell, even Dusknoir (due thanks to access to Knock Off) is even better than Dusclops now. There's no need to keep it on this list. Dusclops has lost any viability it has from BW UU.

I think we shouldn't waste our time with pokemon being on or off the list. It doesn't hinder anything. How about we discuss things more relevant, such as whether Hydra is really S-ranked worthy or not.

I don't see how arguing a moot point is deemed relevant. Hydreigon is S-rank worthy. It's an absolute monster and demands so much offensive pressure. It's the reason why people are forced to run Florges on their team. Between its coverage and offensive prowess, it's actually nigh impossible to safely switch into without using a Fairy-type or SpDef Hippowdon.

 

[UU ALL DAY]

I think we shouldn't waste our time with pokemon being on or off the list. It doesn't hinder anything. How about we discuss things more relevant, such as whether Hydra is really S-ranked worthy or not.

 

[Kingpoleon]

Replace Dusclops with Dusknoir.

Other people have summed it up before, and I want to say this: last gen, Dusclops should have been RU, too. It was really bad then, is now, and never should be used. I hope I have made this point clear. Thank you.

 

[Blast]

Knock Off, attacking decently well, etc. I said it before, I'll say it again. You should base it off what the rank says, not how bad/good it is. I agree, it is outclassed. Setting up TR, Burning, ResTalking? use Cofagrigus. But C Rank says in it 'entirely eclipsed'. Since that is the wording I will stick to that.

By that logic, everything in the game should be given a ranking because that's the "definition" of C-Rank (wouldn't even be surprised if that's just a typo). Shitmons like Butterfree and Beedrill aren't on this list despite being "entirely eclipsed," simply because if it's something you should never consider for a team, then it doesn't deserve a ranking. You said yourself that it's completely outclassed, which basically means there's no reason to use it. So why are we essentially encouraging its use by giving it a ranking? And by the way, you absolutely should base your arguments off of how good or bad the Pokémon is, it's just simple logic. They're called "viability rankings" because we're ranking their viability. Unless someone can prove that Dusknoir has a niche (AND whether that niche is actually useful) then it's a pretty obvious contender for E-Rank.

Also about the "attacking decently well" part, that's pretty much completely false since base 100 Attack is solid but not outstanding and thanks to Dusknoir's crappy STAB options it's actually really weak. Oh yeah and Mazz afaik Dusknoir doesn't learn Knock Off, I think he was referring to the fact that Dusknoir is slightly less crippled due to not holding an Eviolite (not that it takes it all that well anyway).

 

[TM13IceBeam]

Wait where the fuck is the Knock Off Dusknoir discussion coming from?

http://www.smogon.com/bw/pokemon/dusknoir/moves

dusknoir doesn't even get it ._.

Also the whole point for Knock off is moot because Dusknoir is still as susceptible to Knock Off as Dusclops is. Unless itemless Dusknoir is suddenly a thing, I don't see what Dusknoir is even fulfilling in UU. Mienshao/Heracross 2HKOes you regardless, and Crawdaunt doesn't even give a shit.