You are a type specialist in a hostile region. How do you best represent your chosen element?

[QuentinQuonce]

Dragon-type is DP was my favorite because while everyone really desperate for dragon stand-in other than Chomp.

I'm pleased how that one went, there was a lot of scope for variety there so it was interesting seeing all the justifications based on design or move associations.

And then I present them Gabite and everyone just agree it works wonder. Even thought I did not win, I'm glad have become a trendsetter.

Also pleased by this fact (well done on being the first to be brave and take the plunge). It's good to see people considering pre-evos as an option and I think we've had a good mix of pre-evos included in previous rounds, like Whirlipede in BW Poison or Haunter in GSC Ghost. The current round has been particularly good for that since Pikachu is one of the few NFEs that's explicitly meant to be able to stand alongside fully-evolved species as an equal - the team with Pichu included was fun.

(Actually, this round was crying out for an explicitly Pikachu-themed team, wasn't it? Pichu, Pikachu, Raichu, Plusle, Minun, and then perhaps Azumarill since that's generally agreed to be Gen II's Pikaclone). Reminded forcefully of Eagun's second team from XD now.

 

[CTNC]

So, we now have 6 challenges completed, and a seventh in the works. Given that, and while we wait for votes to come in...I'm curious what everyone's favorite out of your own teams is. Use whatever reasoning for favorite you want, I'm just curious what people think.

My favorite so far was GS Ghost. There were few enough Ghost Pokemon to give room for interesting choices and enough variety in Ghost moves to make team building interesting. Early Gens having limited movepools and not having Gen 4's Physical Special split are an annoying restrictions, but Gen 2 did have a lot of interesting Ghost moves. Also, I got to use a Pokemon with 4 Status Moves. :P

My least favorite so far were ORAS Fairy and BW Ice. ORAS had too many Fairies so there wasn't much room for creativity. Not much motivation (and I wasn't feeling that well at the time) lead to me saying screw it and going with a joke idea for the team. With BW Ice, the problem was more of my approach to team building. So few Gen 5 Pokemon learn Ice Moves. (I wasn't using BW2 Tutors because they came out after BW and I didn't want to use Egg moves.) The list of Pokemon that could learn Ice Beam had me picking a second Water Type instead of thematically questionable Sigilyph or Physical Attacking Golurk and I wanted to go with Pokemon that could learn Blizzard too for a slightly deeper connection to Ice, but I just didn't like the choices. I forgot to get back to finishing because I just wasn't that interested.

 

[Pikachu315111]

As we wait for the results, some thoughts on the previous round winners:

Unova Chill

SturdyShedinja: Yeah, like, it's the most obvious and what I would have done if SturdyShedinja hadn't picked it (though it's not like we're claiming themes, I probably could have thought of a different angle).
misterdarvus: THE winter theme team, using color matching to emphasize the theme even more and standing out from the others who tried a similar ideas.
Celever: I think what sold this theme was the Volcarona, it's an oddball pick but with the theme of it being a team of a "snowy mountain person" it went along well enough to make it a novelty.
Ironmage: The Unova representation wasn't a bad idea, Zebstrika and the Elemental Monkey certainly are some of the most memorable Pokemon from Gen V, for better or for worse.

Got really nothing else to say for the 3-way tie for fifth I'm involved with R_N & Hugin, nothing really compares our team to one another so I'd imagine we're mostly 4th and 5th picks of whatever extra theme the voter liked. All I can really inspect on is my team, maybe I went too specific, or too obscurely specific.

Given that it wasn't mostly doubles, the fact that more people didn't take Pikachu315111's option of telling Plusle and Minun to screw off is a bit surprising to me. Or even just using one of them rather than both.

I just want to note I didn't necessarily tell Plusle & Minun to screw off (that was Imperial Magala in a rather graphic way), just wasn't too excited with them as options. I was debating making a Double Battle team, completely lapsed on me that they had Hidden Abilities so TECHNICALLY could operate on their own. Though, if you're gonna use Plusle or Minun, it does feel odd not to use both if you're able and thus not have it be a Double Battle team using Plus & Minus; but some people did that so we'll see.

Also want to note I didn't realize R_N picked Beedrill also because of Casey, I thought I was the only one who pulled out that obscure reference. Ha ha ... we're old .

Also, yes, I'm, not expecting to win this round, but I just had nothing so went out with a meme.

So, we now have 6 challenges completed, and a seventh in the works. Given that, and while we wait for votes to come in...I'm curious what everyone's favorite out of your own teams is.

My pick: Steel-type in LGPE Kanto

For personal reasons, I felt like that is when I started getting the hang of making teams (and I liked that team, felt the inclusion of Aerodactyl was pretty clever and unique; if only I made a moveset).

Dragon-type is DP was my favorite because while everyone really desperate for dragon stand-in other than Chomp. And then I present them Gabite and everyone just agree it works wonder. Even thought I did not win, I'm glad have become a trendsetter.

It was a super valuable lesson in team making (when you can't repeat a Pokemon). Middle evolutions are so easy to pass over its hard to forget that some have decent enough stats to work on their own, plus when available there's the ever useful Eviolite.

I'm pleased how that one went, there was a lot of scope for variety there so it was interesting seeing all the justifications based on design or move associations.

... Though I do think my disqualification wasn't warranted; just cause I didn't want to use Garchomp didn't mean I broke the rules (still think my inclusion of Staraptor was pretty clever), but that's water under the bridge.

(Actually, this round was crying out for an explicitly Pikachu-themed team, wasn't it? Pichu, Pikachu, Raichu, Plusle, Minun, and then perhaps Azumarill since that's generally agreed to be Gen II's Pikaclone). Reminded forcefully of Eagun's second team from XD now.

Or have a Smeargle which knows Volt Tackle and Nuzzle. "I am totally a, um, peek-a-choo. Peeko, peeko. See? I too am also immune to Paralysis and can use a Orb to increase my low offense stats to do higher damage, just ignore the orb is pink".

 

[QuentinQuonce]

With BW Ice, the problem was more of my approach to team building. So few Gen 5 Pokemon learn Ice Moves. (I wasn't using BW2 Tutors because they came out after BW and I didn't want to use Egg moves.) The list of Pokemon that could learn Ice Beam had me picking a second Water Type instead of thematically questionable Sigilyph or Physical Attacking Golurk and I wanted to go with Pokemon that could learn Blizzard too for a slightly deeper connection to Ice, but I just didn't like the choices. I forgot to get back to finishing because I just wasn't that interested.

Eh, why not? NPCs occasionally do. Pretty sure Lt Surge even uses a Surfing Raichu several times in his Stadium battles (props to Eagun for not doing so in the XD fight I mentioned above).

NPC bosses in early games are notorious for their illegal movesets: it's never really bothered me too much as I just always assumed they had access to all sorts of resources we don't.

You know what, it actually might be worth me making a note of that in the guidelines just in case anyone has ever worried about move illegality.

My least favorite so far were ORAS Fairy [...] ORAS had too many Fairies so there wasn't much room for creativity.

You've actually hit on something I've been thinking about as this thread has gone on (I'm kind of hesitant to even go there because, as I've stated before, I don't want to derail the thread with people suggesting their own ideas for future polls or anything like that but... whatever). There are a couple of picks I came across that technically fit the bill as "fewer than six fully-evolved Pokemon of a certain type in this Pokedex" - to give an example, Fighting in RBY Kanto. That regional Pokedex only has five fully-evolved species (Poliwrath, Primeape, Machamp, Hitmonchan, Hitmonlee).

Now on the one hand that'd be potentially quite fun as - assuming you go with all of those* - you've only got one wildcard spot so it would still be interesting to see everyone's picks, as you'd have to reeeeally justify that last addition. In a way it's potentially a bit more difficult than having to come up with three or four. But on the other hand you could just go Poliwrath/Primeape/Hitmonchan/Hitmonlee/Machamp/Machoke and be done with it.

So, like, it would be a change of pace once in a while to have an easy round. But on balance... it's probably best to stay away from ones similar to what I outlined and stick to the harder options as I don't think it'd be all that enjoyable. Kind of getting the feeling that harder is better.

*which based on how things have gone to date I'm sure not everyone would, but still

 

[CTNC]

Eh, why not? NPCs occasionally do. Pretty sure Lt Surge even uses a Surfing Raichu several times in his Stadium battles (props to Eagun for not doing so in the XD fight I mentioned above).

NPC bosses in early games are notorious for their illegal movesets: it's never really bothered me too much as I just always assumed they had access to all sorts of resources we don't.

You know what, it actually might be worth me making a note of that in the guidelines just in case anyone has ever worried about move illegality.

A note about move legality is probably a good idea.


I know there's nothing wrong with using Egg moves and it doesn't bother me when it's done in game. Gen 4's Elite Four are good examples of trainers that used Egg Moves. Flint had to use Fire Punch for Lopunny and Cynthia's Roserade knowing Extrasensory was interesting because it was showing off the Egg Move it could only know if it hatched as a Budew instead of Roselia. It's much less common after Gen 5 though, so I'd really rather not with Gens 5 and later. Even before then, it's not common enough for me to consider looking at them unless I'm already digging deeper than just Level Up moves. I guess I'm just up tight about sticking to Level Moves and TMs. I guess I'm okay with the game designers doing whatever even though I'd be asking if something is fair if I was designing it.

TL:DR I'm just stuck up about using Level Up moves and HMs for not much of a good reason.


Movesets with moves the Pokemon can't learn (yet) make it so much easier and maybe I should try it with Gen 1 or 2 for the sake of getting out of my comfort zone. Another thing about move legality is event only moves might as well be illegal for some people, especially if they're from hard to get events, so it was really interesting to see multiple people use Extreme Speed Pikachu this round.
(Also, isn't Stadium how you get a Surfing Pikachu? I'd give Lt. Surge a pass for that just for showing off a move that's only learnable from the game it's in.)

You've actually hit on something I've been thinking about as this thread has gone on (I'm kind of hesitant to even go there because, as I've stated before, I don't want to derail the thread with people suggesting their own ideas for future polls or anything like that but... whatever). There are a couple of picks I came across that technically fit the bill as "fewer than six fully-evolved Pokemon of a certain type in this Pokedex" - to give an example, Fighting in RBY Kanto. That regional Pokedex only has five fully-evolved species (Poliwrath, Primeape, Machamp, Hitmonchan, Hitmonlee).

Now on the one hand that'd be potentially quite fun as - assuming you go with all of those* - you've only got one wildcard spot so it would still be interesting to see everyone's picks, as you'd have to reeeeally justify that last addition. In a way it's potentially a bit more difficult than having to come up with three or four. But on the other hand you could just go Poliwrath/Primeape/Hitmonchan/Hitmonlee/Machamp/Machoke and be done with it.

So, like, it would be a change of pace once in a while to have an easy round. But on balance... it's probably best to stay away from ones similar to what I outlined and stick to the harder options as I don't think it'd be all that enjoyable. Kind of getting the feeling that harder is better.

*which based on how things have gone to date I'm sure not everyone would, but still

Derail time! :P

I'm guessing the most popular RBY Fighting last pick other than Machoke would be Tauros. It's a good fit IMO even without the Regional Variant reasoning. Farfetch'd would also get used, but it's not as good without the Regional Variant reason IMO. Personally, I'd probably use Pinsir if I didn't use Machoke.

 

[R_N]

The only reason for there to not be a Pinsir sweep is because everyone doesn't want to just use Pinsir like everyone else, resulting in no one using Pinsir

 

[QuentinQuonce]

The results are in, and congratulations to Hugin for becoming this round's winner!

 

[QuentinQuonce]

And it's time for our next round - after conferring with last round's winner, we have a new concept. We're sticking with Kalos, though going to a different part of it, and the question is as follows...

You are a Bug-type specialist in Coastal Kalos. How do you best represent your chosen type?​

A reminder to please read the guidelines in the OP before commenting, especially if you're new to the thread. You have until July 20th, 9PM GMT to make your case!

Once again to be perfectly clear: you may only select Pokemon from the Coastal Kalos Pokedex, i.e. Drifloon-Lapras. Any teams which include Pokemon from either the Central or Mountain Kalos dexes will not be valid for this round and will be disqualified.

Coastal Kalos Dex is here for those who need it: https://www.serebii.net/xy/coastalpokedex.shtml

Teams so far

Pikachu315111: Heracross, Pinsir, Crustle, Yanmega, Clawitzer, Reuniclus
Sturdysheninja: Heracross, Pinsir, Crustle, Yanmega, Shelgon, Carbink
Imperial Magala: Heracross, Pinsir, Crustle, Yanmega, Clawitzer, Sigilyph
Mike81401: Pinsir, Crustle, Yanmega, Salamence, Malamar, Exeggutor
Noah3475: Heracross, Pinsir, Crustle, Yanmega, Ampharos, Barbaracle
Eeveeto: Heracross, Pinsir, Crustle, Yanmega, Dwebble, Tentacruel
Ironmage: Heracross, Pinsir, Crustle, Yanmega, Machamp, Jolteon
Hugin: Heracross, Pinsir, Crustle, Lunatone, Clawitzer, Dragalge
CTNC: Heracross, Pinsir, Crustle, Yanmega, Clawitzer, Barbaracle

 

[Pikachu315111]

With four Bug-types and plenty of options, I decided to go super simple:


Heracross (Moxie/Skill Link. Heracronite. Pin Missile/Close Combat/Bullet Seed/Rock Blast)
Pinsir (Moxie/Aerilate. Pinsirite. X-Scissor/Close Combat/Thrash/Earthquake)
Crustle (Shell Armor. Wide Lens. Shell Smash/X-Scissor/Rock Slide/Earthquake)
Yanmega (Speed Boost. Expert Belt. Bug Buzz/Air Slash/Psychic/Shadow Ball)
Clawitzer (Mega Launcher. Wise Glasses. Water Pulse/Dragon Pulse/Aura Sphere/U-turn)
Reuniclus (Magic Guard. Zoom Lens. Psychic/Energy Ball/Thunder/Infestation)

"Why two Megas"? Why not? Since both would be my ace, I decided to give myself the versatility of having both Mega as an option, letting the flow of the battle decide which one goes Mega. And, for the one who doesn't go Mega, sure they don't have an item, but they both do have Moxie which is a pretty good Ability and by the time the battle gets to them the opponent should have one or two of their Pokemon in hopefully KO range.

Otherwise it works out pretty great. 3 Physical Attackers, 3 Special Attackers, mostly all attacking Moves, the Status Moves they do have are obvious why they're there, and both my non-bugs have Bug-type Moves. Oh, right should explain those:

• Clawitzer is simple, it's a crustacean which is a subphylum of the arthropod phylum where all the bug phylum are.
  
  
• Reuniclus, in addition for coverage options, is a Pokemon based on cells. Yes, all life is made up of cells, but the way cells work together and all have their own roles remind me of colony animals, the best known being bugs such as ants, bees, and wasps (which GF must have also thought which is why it gets Infestation).

As I said, I went really simple here, which I guess is appropriate as that's how people think of bugs (which they're wrong, bugs are all complex animals, though I guess that's also appropriate; if you battle my team thinking it'll be a simple battle you have a hard time coming for you, like a carapace of a beetle... before you get the mandibles!)

 

[Hugin]

WHOOP! First win, and with a team that I had fun building. I'd also like to thank everyone for their responses to my "what's your favorite team that you've made" question, there's a lot to think about here.

My actual team for this one will be up later, I'm busy getting angry at the water-type again.

 

[SturdyShedinja]

Movesets here!

The four bugs are pretty self explanatory. Yanmega is in the lead slot to abuse u-turn and I went with pinsir as the mega since base heracross is better than base pinsir. Shelgon represents the cocoon phase that a lot of bug types have, as it’s in a sturdy protective shell until it evolves and grows wings. Lastly, carbink has a strong outer shell somewhat reminiscent of a bug’s exoskeleton while also being loosely based on the mythical carbuncle, which sometimes takes the appearance as a firefly’s light.

 

[Imperial Magala]

Sturdy
+Rocky Helmet
-Bug Bite
-Smack Down
-Flail
-Stealth Rock


Tinted Lens
+Wise Glasses
-Bug Buzz
-Air Slash
-Ancient Power
-Shadow Ball


Mold Breaker
+Life Orb
-X-Scissor
-Close Combat
-Earthquake
-Knock Off


Skill Link
+Hercrossite
-Pin Missile
-Arm Thrust
-Rock Blast
-Bullet Seed

Finally, actual team options. Crustle makes for a great lead option and Yanmega is a good special attacker. I went with Mega Heracross instead of Mega Pinsir to avoid too much Flying type overlap with the rest of the team. I know Arm Thrust even at 5 hits does less damage than Close Combat, but I'm showcasing how Megas change Pokemon no matter what. Also I'm sticking with bringing in transfer moves from at least B2W2.


Mega Launcher
+Choice Scarf
-Water Pulse
-Flash Cannon
-Dark Pulse
-U-Turn

Shrimp are anthropods, which means they're closely related to insects. Using Seviian Clawitzer (a Bug/Dark type) in Radical Red also made me want to reference it with Dark Pulse and U-Turn. Fun Fact, Clawitzer getting U-Turn is a reference to how shrimp move through the Caridoid escape reaction/lobstering.

Clawitzer does this in the overworld in the Isle of Armor.


Magic Guard
+Flame Orb
-Stored Power
-Cosmic Power
-Psycho Shift
-Roost

Sigilyph is based on the Nazca lines, specifically the hummingbird figure view from a specific angle.

Hummingbirds are similar to insects in that they're small pollinators that hover around at fast speeds. Sigilyph having a a body resembling an exoskeleton also adds to its bug-like nature. I considered bringing Signal Beam, but I want to show off a set I made back when Black/White was first released.

Considered was Swoobat due to some species of bat also being pollinators like insects and hummingbirds, Onix and Steelix due to being "earthwyrms", Malamar, Barbaracle, Starmie, Cloyster, Tentacruel, Octillery, and Corsola due to being ocean invertebrates, and Jolteon because I associate it with using Pin Missile against Psychic types back in Gen 1.

 

[Mike81401]

The three obligatory Bug-types in the Coastal dex, these three are obligatory additions, especially since Yanmega is one of my favorite Pokemon of all time. I feel the best way to go is aiming for more of a metamorphosis theming, which is why I've decided to cut Heracross as it never really becomes anything majorly different without its Mega. Pinsir grows wings when it Mega Evolves, Yanmega turns from a dragonfly into a meganeura, notably with 'Ancient Power'; and Dwebble's rock transforms into a large block of stratum when it evolves. Now, these extra picks will also be Pokemon that transform in wildly different ways. Starting with...

Salamence! No, this isn't a joke, as the transformation is obvious here. Bagon starts as a Pokemon with stubby arms andlegs, and then it evolves into Shelgon, which is encapsulated in, well, a shell (hence the name) before turning into a dragon. While it does learn the Bug-type Fury Cutter, I don't believe that's eligible here due to it being a transfer move. It even has the ability Intimidate, which Bug-types such as Masquerain share and which real-life bugs often use to avoid predators. So, next is...

Malamar: This is an unconventional example of metamorphosis, witht he entire Pokemon flipping upside down upon evolution, and I confess the idea to use Malamar isn't exactly original, but in this challenge, we do what we can (within reason). Thankfully, Malamar's always been able to learn X-Scissor, which opens the door to a physical set with Contrary ad Superpower. Malamar is even an invertibrate like the bugson the rest of the squad. And finally...

Exeggutor! One of the ubiqutous examples of weird evolutions, Exeggutor transforms from a set of six eggs (though it's up to debate if they're eggs or seeds) into a coconut tree. Since bugs often live in trees, the secodnary connection is obvious, and though ironically Exeggutor's quad weak to Bug, it synchronizes well with Malamar (who is also quad weak to Bug) and Crustle by giving the team a Trick Room-oriented backbone.

 

[Noah3475]

My Electric Team performed better than I expected at voting; thank you all for your votes! With that in mind, I decided continuing to submit teams was not a bad idea. I am also pleasantly surprised that the Kalos region was chosen again.
Here is my team in short:

Four fully evolved Bug-Type Pokémon are in the Coastal Kalos Pokedex, and I saw no reason to omit any of them. This team mostly follows the same though process as my previous team. Valid Bug Pokémon were used, as well as other Pokémon that can learn Bug Type Moves. I could not decide whether Pinsir or Heracross would Mega Evolve, so I instead added Ampharos to the team, and I think it would serve as an interesting twist. Finally, Barbaracle, a Generation VI Pokémon, is the team's Ace Pokémon.
The details of this team can be viewed by opening the spoiler tag. The details account for anything that I would control for when I would play a Pokémon campaign, as well as the level I foresee each of these Pokémon being when fought in battle.

Noah3475's Bug Team

Yanmega (M) LV.69
Ability: Speed Boost Item: Liechi Berry
Moves: Bug Buzz, Air Slash, Reversal, Ancient Power

Pinsir (M) LV.69
Ability: Moxie Item: Life Orb
Moves: X-Scissor, Quick Attack, Swords Dance, Earthquake

Heracross (M) LV.69
Ability: Moxie Item: Choice Scarf
Moves: Megahorn, Close Combat

Crustle (M) LV.70
Ability: Sturdy Item: Bright Powder
Moves: X-Scissor, Rock Wrecker, Shell Smash, Earthquake

Ampharos (F) LV.70 ->
Ability: Static -> Mold Breaker Item: Ampharosite
Moves: Discharge, Signal Beam, Power Gem, Dragon Pulse

Barbaracle (M) LV.71
Ability: Sniper Item: Scope Lens
Moves: Stone Edge, Razor Shell, Cross Chop, Fury Cutter

 

[Eeveeto]

Ability: Sturdy. Item: Custap Berry. Moves: Stealth Rock, Spikes, Bug Bite, Rock Wrecker. Small cute bug used as a hazard setter. Still can kill something with Rock Wrecker or steal a berry with Bug Bite.

Item: Black Sludge. Moves: Toxic Spikes, Sludge Bomb, Surf, Ice Beam. Corsola, Octillery, Clamperl, Clawitzer, Cloyster, Starmie and Barbaracle were the other options for this slot. All of them are based on invertebrate animals, so that is close enough for Bug types. I decided to use Tentacruel, since he is pretty similar to the other non Bug Mon, based on a very similar animal. This Tentacruel puts more hazards and attacks with what it has.

Ability: Speed Boost. Item: Life Orb. Moves: Bug Buzz, Air Slash, Ancient Power, Giga Drain. Another Bug. Just Attacks.

Ability: Contrary. Item: Leftovers. Moves: Superpower, Psycho Cut, Knock Off, Signal Beam. Like the water options, its an invertebrate animal, so it qualifies as bug. Mike81401 was a bit confused though, since Malamar never learned X Scissor. It does however learn Signal Beam, so I put it as the only special move on a overall physical set.

Item: Heracronite. Moves: Arm Thrust, Pin Missile, Rock Blast, Bullet Seed. The Mega Bug. Not the set it used in competitive Meta, but all 4 moves abuse the Skill Link ability, its more cool for in-game.

Ability: Sturdy. Item: Weakness Policy. Moves: Shell Smash, Stone Edge, X Scissor, Earthquake. Just like Dwebble is the lead of the team, this guy is the final cleaner. It uses Shell Smash and if someone is dumb enough to use an effective move on it... well, its gg. Out of all fully evolved Bugs, Crustle is my favorite, so of course it had to be the MVP and of course Dwebble had to be used too.

 

[Ironmage]

I decided to focus on the interplay between the Bug and Fighting types. The two types have the unique distinction of being mutually resisted, and rivalry/competition is a notable aspect of Pinsir's, Heracross's and Crustle's dex entries.



Crustle @ Leftovers
Ability: Shell Armor
- Stealth Rock
- Knock Off
- X-Scissor
- Rock Blast
Leads because of hazards. Unfortunately lacks a solid Fighting move to help with the theme as much. I also would have settled for Steel because of its dex entries stating that the fights for dominance involve breaking the rival's boulder.


Yanmega @ Life Orb
Ability: Speed Boost
- Detect
- Air Slash
- Bug Buzz
- Giga Drain
I chose to go with Speed Boost offense here in order to make use of a Fighting move in Detect. The available selection has 1* bug type with a second type SE on Fighting and a second with a second type weak to Fighting, which contributes to the idea of an equal rivalry.


Pinsir @ Lum Berry
Ability: Mold Breaker
- Swords Dance
- X-Scissor
- Earthquake
- Close Combat


Heracross-Mega @ Heracronite
Ability: Moxie
- Pin Missile
- Arm Thrust
- Rock Blast
- Bulk Up
*as long as Pinsir isn't a second Flying-type. The canon rivals get grouped in the discussion since the movesets are set up to somewhat mirror each other even if the true Fighting-type gets the spotlight with its mega. Pinsir focuses on single hits and faster scaling Attack, while Heracross uses a balanced boost and multi-hits.


Machamp @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: No Guard
- Cross Chop
- Focus Energy
- Stone Edge
- Bullet Punch
This is a hexapod, right? I was thinking about the prominence of crosses within the Bug type (X-scissor, common learners of Cross Poison, Heracross' and Scizor's English names, possibly Pinsir's Japanese name (kailios)) and that naturally led me to Cross Chop. It (and Stone Edge) being high-crit lets the set show off not needing Scope Lens to hit 100% uptime. No Guard was used to reference the standard Accuracy-boosting ability being Bug-exclusive.


Jolteon @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Volt Absorb
- Volt Switch
- Signal Beam
- Shadow Ball
- Discharge
Firstly, why an Electric-type at all? I took the idea of a rivalry from Bug and Fighting's mutual resistance, but I also looked at how the pair relates to other types as well. On paper, they seem like pretty good partners: Fighting can cover against Rock and Bug against Psychic, and they're a proper superhero team-up with how well they can both beat Dark. But there is also a shared weakness to Flying. Both Rock and Ice would skew the balance between the two main types, so that left Electric. As for why Jolteon specifically, it has an interesting relationship with a Bug move. In reference to its spiky fur, it's learned Pin Missile since the beginning (later dex entries note that said fur can be fired out, but the gen 1 dexes don't). Which, because nearly everything else that learned a Bug move at the time was Poison-type, your options for a unilateral advantage against Psychic were a couple 20-power moves or Jolteon. I did consider running Pin Missile on this set, but opted for a special Bug move instead.

 

[Hugin]

Lunatone to reference bugs navigating by the moon/being attracted to lights. Heracross/Crustle/Pinsir because bug-types. Skipped Yanmega because it seemed too fast and active for the way this team developed. Mega-Pinsir because Mega-Hera felt weird to build around and base Pinsir sucks. Clawitzer is a shrimp, which is essentially indistinguishable from insects to most people. Dragalge is technically a vertebrate, but seahorses are weird and have an almost-exoskeleton, and a bug team needs to have a poison type after how the two have been so closely associated for so long. And the actual mon definitely resembles a weird insect.

moveset

Lunatone @ Light Clay
Ability: Levitate
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
- Trick Room
- Light Screen
- Reflect
- Explosion

Clawitzer @ Assault Vest
Ability: Mega Launcher
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Water Pulse
- Dark Pulse
- Aura Sphere
- Ice Beam

Heracross @ Flame Orb
Ability: Guts
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Close Combat
- Megahorn
- Earthquake
- Facade

Dragalge @ Life Orb
Ability: Adaptability
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Draco Meteor
- Sludge Wave
- Hydro Pump
- Haze

Crustle @ Lum Berry
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Rock Wrecker
- X-Scissor
- Night Slash
- Giga Impact

Pinsir @ Pinsirite
Ability: Hyper Cutter
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Quick Attack
- Double-Edge
- Close Combat
- Swords Dance

Not a complex build. Lunatone sets screens, Trick Room, and Explodes. Clawitzer kills things under TR. Guts Heracross kills things. Dragalge kills things and uses Haze to stop set-up and fix it's own Draco stat drops. Crustle uses Sturdy to guarantee one massive hit in case the oppt is sweeping. And then Arialate Pinsir QA/Double Edge kills things.

Yes, that is a stupidly aggressive team, and notably, nearly every member has some kind of significant drawback to it's moves. This Gym Leader concept would not be allowed in the actual games. Basic idea is a kid with a chronic illness of some sort. Started with Lunatone, who's light naturally led to catching bug-types. But then they grew to like bugs, both because they're easier to train(necessary with reduced energy/mobility), and because they are usually viewed as limited by others, even if that's not actually true. Has proceeded to master bug types, leading to the current team of extremely potent but also risky/short-lived mons. And all from the Costal Kalos dex because they really can't travel halfway across the region just for Vivillion.

Runner-Ups: All of the Water, Rock, or Water/Rock invertebrates. There's a ton of those, you could basically make a mono-water team that is all things that qualify as "bugs" to the avg person. I /really/ came close to using Corsola.

 

[Pikachu315111]

Since there's a lull I'll just post my thoughts on the Electric Kalos results:

Shocking Results

Hugin - Hugin is interesting because they're not the first to do a Double Battle team or to include a Seaking (and no I'm not suggesting they won because they picked a Ninjask); and though they did include a "character" it's a blink-and-you'll-miss-it small paragraph. I think Hugin's first paragraph sentiment of just making a fun gimmick team which just have sucky choices was the best way to set the stage for their team. And then you get into the little complexities in it, like it not using Plus/Minus, Plusle only having Discharge because it's holding a Choice item, and overall how Discharge is used as the sort of "glue" in this team (even poor Ninjask trying to be a team player holding a Wacan Berry; the added irony it was immune to Electric just an evolution ago).

Eeveeto - It's funny how Hugin says "Pichu is right out", being they're the winner, but second place is the only one who included Pichu on their team! I guess you can't argue that Eeveeto's team is THE Electric-type team you can make, with a very powerful surprise counter that feels both out-of-place but logical. It's a strong novelty pick, though novelty teams don't seem to go above 2nd place.

R_N, DuoM2, & CTNC - a 3-way tie for 3rd, and though all the teams are interesting in their own right, I feel it's the number of votes which is more telling. Hugin and Eeveeto took the Pyroar's share; R_N, DuoM2, CTNC and even Noah3475 and barely Ironmage sharing the remainder of the bulk. This is nothing against anyone, but I think more speaks to the difficulty of this particular challenge; the mere presence of Plusle & Minun I'd argue being the most influential roadbump. You either work with their theme, or around them, but Arceus forbid you forget or try to push them in the background (and I'm beginning to think SturdyShedinja not getting so many points is out of spite for them choosing this theme); otherwise it's behind the meme team with you.

There are a couple of picks I came across that technically fit the bill as "fewer than six fully-evolved Pokemon of a certain type in this Pokedex" - to give an example, Fighting in RBY Kanto. That regional Pokedex only has five fully-evolved species (Poliwrath, Primeape, Machamp, Hitmonchan, Hitmonlee).

Now on the one hand that'd be potentially quite fun as (...) you've only got one wildcard spot so it would still be interesting to see everyone's picks, as you'd have to reeeeally justify that last addition. (...). But on the other hand you could just go Poliwrath/Primeape/Hitmonchan/Hitmonlee/Machamp/Machoke and be done with it.

I'm guessing the most popular RBY Fighting last pick other than Machoke would be Tauros. It's a good fit IMO even without the Regional Variant reasoning. Farfetch'd would also get used, but it's not as good without the Regional Variant reason IMO. Personally, I'd probably use Pinsir if I didn't use Machoke.

The only reason for there to not be a Pinsir sweep is because everyone doesn't want to just use Pinsir like everyone else, resulting in no one using Pinsir

Or they would go with a support Pokemon. Like, my pick would actually be Jolteon. The main threat for a Gen I Fighting team are Flying and especially Psychic-types, and Jolteon (in addition to being an Electric-type so SE against Flying) was the premier Psychic-type killer back in those days.

But yeah...

So, like, it would be a change of pace once in a while to have an easy round. But on balance... it's probably best to stay away from ones similar to what I outlined and stick to the harder options as I don't think it'd be all that enjoyable.

Only way I could see having a region of 5 FE Pokemon of a certain Type would be doing them a batch at the same time. Maybe don't even give us a choice not to use one of them, simply have the challenge being "fill in the remaining spot in these teams". At the very least in this way, even if people agree on multiple Pokemon, as long as everyone has a different line-up you can still do a voting.

I also have another idea which, while doesn't quite fit this thread's theme, would make for an interesting team building challenge:

Hiding to not completely detract from thread

Taking an NPC in the game which never had a full 6 team and giving them a full 6 team.

My proof-of-concept example would be a multi-team challenge: the Kimono Girls. We had a discussion about them in another thread (mainly how they oddly never got a TCG card yet Daisy Oak and the Flower Shop Lady in Goldenrod did). Thinking about it, despite being presented as important NPCs, the Kimono Girls actual role isn't that big and when you battle them they only have one of the Eeveelutions. So, I thought it would be a fun idea giving them a full team of 6 based in HGSS (where they did and talked a bit more so could maybe base teams around that; or not, just go thematic with their Eeveelution or Type preference; that's the fun with these challenges afterall, seeing what people do).

Bulbapedia has a whole list of these characters.

My actual team for this one will be up later, I'm busy getting angry at the water-type again.

Don't worry, I don't think we'll ever have a challenge which involves the Water-type.

 

[QuentinQuonce]

I also have another idea which, while doesn't quite fit this thread's theme, would make for an interesting team building challenge:

Hiding to not completely detract from thread

Taking an NPC in the game which never had a full 6 team and giving them a full 6 team.

My proof-of-concept example would be a multi-team challenge: the Kimono Girls. We had a discussion about them in another thread (mainly how they oddly never got a TCG card yet Daisy Oak and the Flower Shop Lady in Goldenrod did). Thinking about it, despite being presented as important NPCs, the Kimono Girls actual role isn't that big and when you battle them they only have one of the Eeveelutions. So, I thought it would be a fun idea giving them a full team of 6 based in HGSS (where they did and talked a bit more so could maybe base teams around that; or not, just go thematic with their Eeveelution or Type preference; that's the fun with these challenges afterall, seeing what people do).

Bulbapedia has a whole list of these characters.

Spoilering my response for the same reason:

Hiding to not completely detract from thread

Yeah, this would actually be interesting - I could see that having a lot of scope for discussion - and I'm assuming not against the forum rules (if the "make a canon team for each protagonist" thread was allowed, surely this would be too)

It's not really in this thread's remit but I'd for sure get involved if it was elsewhere - you should make it! Definitely have ideas re the Kimono Girls...

 

[CTNC]

There's 6 Bug types if you count unevolved Pokemon. Anyone want to do that?


Crustle
Sturdy
-X-Scissor
-Rock Tomb
-Stealth Rock
-Bulldoze

If I wanted a moveset more interesting than 4 Attacks for Crustle, I had to main options, Shell Smash or Stealth Rock. It's way too easy to make nothing but offensive movesets, so I went with Stealth Rock and made Crustle the lead. I went with Rock Tomb and Bulldoze because the lead is never the biggest threat and trying to make everyone else outspeed whoever KOs Crustle is subtle support.


Yanmega
Speed Boost
-Bug Buzz
-Air Slash
-Ancient Power
-Protect

There's not much to say about this moveset. It has the two best STAB, Protect lets Yanmega abuse Speed Boost, and Ancient Power is mostly because Yanma needs it to evolve, but it happens to hit Flying and Fire types. I would've used Baton Pass because I thought Yanmega could learn it, but turns out it can't.


Barbaracle
Tough Claws
-X-Scissor
-Razor Shell
-Stone Edge
-Taunt

Barbaracle is worm like creatures in nest like rocks and they work together. That sounds a lot like how bug hives work.

Stone Edge instead of Rock Slide is to make up for the Rock STAB not being boosted by Tough Claws and Taunt is fr the sake of something other than a fourth Attack and is very effective against the right player. Besides, I felt like this moveset was good enough already. Earthquake would take care of Electric types, but there's already two other Pokemon on the team with Ground Attacks. I also figured that if I'm treating this like an in game AI trainer, it's okay throw the player a bone or too.

Barbaracle learns Fury Cutter by Level Up, but even after having its power doubled two Generations in a row, X-Scissor starts with twice the base Power of Fury Cutter. I'm going to keep using Level Up moves as a reason to use Pokemon, but I'm going to start using TM moves if there's a better move for the sake of stronger movesets.

You'd think type overlap with another Rock type would be a problem defensively, but Barbaracle shares no weaknesses with Crustle. The Electric weakness though, more of a problem.


Clawitzer
Mega Launcher
-U-Turn
-Water Pulse
-Dark Pulse
-Aura Sphere

I thought this was easier than expected, then I remembered the hermit crab like Slowbro can't learn Bug moves. Bummer. Well, I remember hearing that crabs are closely related to bugs. I usually don't look at other people's teams before finishing mine, but I shamelessly used them as a lazy fact check. Thanks guys! :P

This moveset had the least thought put into it. U-Turn + 3 moves that get buffed by Mega Launcher.


Pinsir
Hyper Cutter
-X-Scissor
-Storm Throw
-Earthquake
-Sword Dance

The reason Pinsir isn't the Mega is it gains the Flying Type and has an Ability focused around the Flying type. For a team focused on Bug, I'd rather stick to focusing on Bug.

I couldn't resist Sword Dance on something that looks like it embodies pure offense. Storm Throw is a rarely learned move that doesn't have any downside other than the AI thinking it has only 60 Power because it doesn't realize it's effectively 90 with the guarantee Crit. This moveset sucks against Flying Types, but this team has enough Rock Attacks. Bug is supposed to be bad against Flying, so why not let them have this W?


Mega Heracross @Heracronite
Swarm --> Skill Link
-Pin Missile
-Arm Thrust
-Rock Blast
-Bulk Up

There's a lot more to talk about with trivia about the moves than why the moves were used.

Gen 6 Buffing Pin Missile and giving it a powerful abuser with Skill Link made it go from that one weird move with 14 Power to a terrifying attack. Arm Thrust was one of the better Multi Hit moves before they all got buffed in Gen 6, which isn't saying much because only Rock Blast had 25 Power. Now it's the worst non-Normal attack because it still has 15 Power like Double Slap and Fury Attack. I understand the Normal attacks not getting buffed, but why Arm Thrust? Icicle Spear and Leech Seed had 10 Power, but being buffed to 25 Power makes Bullet Seed powerful coverage, (Icicle Spear though, not legal on Heracross. I just brought it up for this ramble about Multi Hit Moves.) but the covorage isn't very useful to Heracross, so I went with the overkill Bulk Up instead. I wasn't going to use Rock Blast because it's an Egg Move, but the other moves are all resisted by Flying and I figured I should stop restricting myself too much. (Also, now I have an excuse to mention that it was buffed in Gen 5 from 80 Accuracy to 90 and it's one of the few Multi Hit moves that weren't changed in Gen 6.)





Bug is weak to Fire, Rock, and Flying but this team doesn't look terrible against them. (Electric though, different story...) I was just trying to make a team that fit the Bug theme, but I stumbled upon a surprisingly strong team.


Note about a Pokemon I'm not using: Something I've thought about before is Shelgon is pretty much a Dragon cocoon, so Salamence is like a draconic butterfly of death. I'm not that surprised to see them on other people's teams. It's a clever choice.

 

[QuentinQuonce]

Evening all. New poll is live, with a hearty nine contenders. You have until July 22nd, 9PM GMT to make your choice!

https://strawpoll.com/poy9WN00pgJ
​

Thoughts on team picks and numbers below:

Spoiler

Crustle: 9
Pinsir: 9

Heracross: 8
Yanmega: 8

Clawitzer: 4

Barbaracle: 2

Dwebble: 1

Exeggutor: 1
Ampharos: 1
Dragalge: 1
Jolteon: 1
Machamp: 1
Tentacruel: 1
Malamar: 1
Sigilyph: 1
Shelgon: 1
Salamence: 1
Carbink: 1
Reuniclus: 1
Lunatone: 1

So this was a curious round. Coastal Kalos has four fully-evolved Bugs, but what's notable about them is that there's not really much, if anything, that binds them as a group. So it wasn't surprising to see people dropping one or more to focus on a certain theme or concept. Amusingly though, the two bugs that people chose to drop were the two that are generally accepted to be quite powerful - Heracross and Yanmega. As a Crustle fan, I take a certain amount of pleasure from it being used in all nine teams.

Then the outside picks were quite funky. Not surprised to see Clawitzer used frequently, there's a definite Bug affinity to it and it looks the part so well. Lunatone was one I did not expect but I loved the justification. Carbink, Salamence, Reuniclus, and Barbaracle all make a lot of sense too. It was funny to see both Exeggutor and Malamar, given their shared 4x Bug weakness, but weirdly that actually made them feel quite fitting. We've even got an NFE not of our chosen type! That must be rare, I can't think offhand of a round that happened in before (though I'm probably wrong about that)

Stuff I expected to see more of (or at all)

Tentacruel. Absolutely seems like the sort of thing that would be fitting to round out a Bug team, especially since Coastal Kalos doesn't actually have any Bug/Poison types. Also adds some appreciable diversity with its Water type, but I guess Clawitzer and Barbaracle filled that niche for a lot of others.

Mienshao. It's quick, nimble, learns U-Turn... guess it overlaps quite a bit with Heracross and Pinsir though. Although a "brawlers and bruisers" themed team could have been fun.

Seviper. Poison-types in general, tbf, but Seviper is a snake (not a bug, but a similarly creepy-crawly sort of animal.

Qwilfish. Same reasons as other Water and Poison picks - it's spiny, poisonous, creepy...

Cloyster. On a team where the theme was carapaces and hard shells and so on, it would definitely fit.

Clamperl. For much the same reason(s).

Krookodile. It's often found alongside Bug-types in desert areas and has a similar vibe to a lot of them.

Heliolisk. It's kind of the inverse of Volbeat in that it's bright, gets a lot of light and boosting moves, and (I think) looks slightly Bug-ish.

Ampharos. Had this on one team, but I definitely expected to see it more.

Swoobat. Bats aren't bugs, but they freak me out just as much.

There's 6 Bug types if you count unevolved Pokemon. Anyone want to do that?

You should have done this, coward. Money where your mouth is!

/s

 

[Pikachu315111]

You should have done this, coward. Money where your mouth is!

/s

Hm, well thinking about it.
Most people would immediately think of giving Dwebble the Eviolite because of its good Defense, but Eeveeto presents an interesting idea giving it a Custap. Combined with Sturdy it allows Dwebble to do the only job it'll likely be able to do: Stealth Rock and maybe a few layers of Spikes. Eviolite may keep it alive longer if it goes up against a Physical Attacker, but it's still toast if goes against a Special Attacker. Alternatively I would give it Toxic instead of Bug Bite (better chance of poisoning an opponent than stumbling upon one having a Berry), but goes to show the odd flexibility the little hermit has.
Yanma I could see doing a "U-turn routine" with its evolution, swapping them having Compoundeyes instead of Speed Boost. With that plan just give it a Choice Band or Choice Scarf and have your opponent relive the annoyance of Elesa's Volt Switching Emolga but bug flavor.

 

[Hugin]

Spoiler

Crustle: 9
Pinsir: 9

Heracross: 8
Yanmega: 8

Clawitzer: 4

Barbaracle: 2

Dwebble: 1

Exeggutor: 1
Ampharos: 1
Dragalge: 1
Jolteon: 1
Machamp: 1
Tentacruel: 1
Malamar: 1
Sigilyph: 1
Shelgon: 1
Salamence: 1
Carbink: 1
Reuniclus: 1
Lunatone: 1

Shelgon was clever. Also, unless I miscounted, 5 Mega-Hera, 4 Mega-Pinsir. I was definitely expecting to see one or the other dominate.

It definitely felt like IMO there were the actual bugs, a bunch of moderate-to-reasonable buglike waters, and then stretches. But bug's been around long enough that you can find links(I remember looking for bug moves back in the day and seeing Jolteon as the only option, that may be more memorable than anything else it's ever done), it has a wide flavor(Ampharos, Lunatone), and it's possible to make things work.

You should have done this, coward. Money where your mouth is!

/s

I was very close to just saying "Screw it" and running Corsola, Barbaracle, Cloyster, Clawitzer, Tentacruel, Starmie. So many water-type invertebrates.

 

[QuentinQuonce]

Results are in... well done SturdyShedinja for becoming the winner for a second time! When I checked the results this morning you were ahead by a wide margin, but one final participant (not me, I should clarify) voted a couple of hours before closing and narrowed your lead...

 

[QuentinQuonce]

And we have our new topic already, courtesy of our winner! I think this one's going to be fun.

You are a Dragon-type specialist in HGSS Johto. How do you best represent your chosen type?​

A reminder to please read the guidelines in the OP before commenting, especially if you're new to the thread. You have until July 26th, 9PM GMT to make your case!

Johto Pokedex is here: https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/List_of_Pokémon_by_Johto_Pokédex_number. Note that HGSS's "Johto Pokedex" is distinct from GSC's "New Pokedex" listing as HGSS's version includes Tangrowth, Ambipom, Lickilicky, Mamoswine, and Yanmega.

Teams so far

Noah3475: Dragonite, Venusaur, Charizard, Blastoise, Ampharos, Tyranitar
CTNC: Kingdra, Gyarados, Aerodactyl, Charizard, Tyranitar, Dragonite
Pikachu315111: Dragonite, Dragonair, Lapras, Arcanine, Nidoqueen, Primeape
R_N: Dragonite, Kingdra, Yanmega, Meganium, Nidoking, Tyranitar
Ironmage: Kingdra, Dragonite, Porygon2, Scizor, Arcanine, Lanturn
Hugin: Steelix, Gyarados, Tyranitar, Mamoswine, Dragonite, Kingdra
Imperial Magala: Tyranitar, Steelix, Nidoking, Kingdra, Lickilicky, Dragonite
Eeveeto: Dunsparce, Dragonite, Steelix, Meganium, Kingdra, Ampharos
Sturdyshedinja: Dragonite, Aerodactyl, Gyarados, Charizard, Yanmega, Skarmory
Gryoine: Kingdra, Dragonite, Gyarados, Yanmega, Aerodactyl, Tyranitar
Misterdarvus: Dragonite, Aerodactyl, Feraligatr, Arcanine, Kangaskhan, Tyranitar