You are a type specialist in a hostile region. How do you best represent your chosen element?

[Noah3475]

(Humor) I alternately chuckle and grovel. This may be a stroke of genius, if I am not disqualified for it. (End Humor)
Here is my team in short:

This team came from the fact that many Dragon users in Pokémon games use Pokémon that are not Dragon type but could appear to be so due to their designs and movepools. I wondered if I would ever again have an excuse to use the holy trinity in a team, and they even seem somewhat draconic... if one squints. Overall, the team focuses not on Dragons themselves, but bringing out the Dragon in many kinds of Pokémon, the rare, powerful creatures some trainers spend their entire careers training and bonding with. Quentin Quonce has taken a forgiving stance on illegal movesets for Pokémon, so I am going to assume that a LV.53 Tyranitar is valid.
The details of this team can be viewed by opening the spoiler tag. The details account for anything that I would control for when I would play a Pokémon campaign, as well as the level I foresee each of these Pokémon being when fought in battle.

Noah3475's Dragon Team

Aerodactyl (M) LV.52
Ability: Pressure Item: Choice Band
Moves: Rock Slide, Dragon Claw, Crunch, Iron Head

Venusaur (M) LV.51
Ability: Overgrow Item: Apicot Berry
Moves: Leaf Storm, Seed Bomb, Outrage, Curse

Charizard (M) LV.51
Ability: Blaze Item: Life Orb
Moves: Flare Blitz, Shadow Claw, Dragon Claw, Dragon Dance

Blastoise (M) LV.51
Ability: Torrent Item: Mystic Water
Moves: Aqua Tail, Skull Bash, Counter*, Outrage

Ampharos (M) LV.52
Ability: Static Item: Dragon Fang
Moves: Charge, Discharge, Cotton Spore, Outrage

Tyranitar (M) LV.53
Ability: Sand Stream Item: Smooth Rock
Moves: Stone Edge, Crunch, Dragon Claw, Dragon Dance

* Available through transfer from a Generation III Pokémon game

 

[CTNC]

This is like golf. Low score wins, right? Seriously though, congrats to SturdyShedinja. Shelgon was the best oddball choice.


Edit: I read Johto Dragon and thought it was GSC, not HGSS. It's pretty much the same Dex though. Just replace Dragon Breath with Dragon Pulse (and maybe Dynamic Punch for Focus Punch to avoid having a transfer only move from the Emerald Tutor.) and it works for HGSS instead of GSC.


The first major choice for team building is should I use Mantine? It learns Twister as an Egg move, so it's one of the few Pokemon to learn Dragon moves without the Dragon Breath TM. Should I? Hmm... Nope!

For movesets, I didn't ask if the movesets were good. I asked if they were awesome. I'm turning my brain off and thinking like an elementary school kid for this one!



Kingdra
-Dragon Breath
-Hydro Pump
-Blizzard
-Hyper Beam

I'd use Dragonair for a third Dragon, but Pokemon that aren't fully evolved aren't awesome. Instead, the lead is Kingdra. I want with the most powerful Dragon, Water, and Ice moves Kingdra could learn. There wasn't any other coverage moves, so I had a tough choice between Dragon Rage and Hyper Beam. Dragon Rage is another Dragon move, but Hyper Beam is the most powerful move!


Gyarados
-Dragon Rage
-Hydro Pump
-Fire Blast
-Hyper Beam

Dragon Rage is a Level Up move and sounds cooler, so I used it over Dragon Breath. I went with Fire Blast instead of Blizzard because fire breathing dragons are so much cooler than dragons that can't breath fire!


Aerodactyl
-Dragon Breath
-Ancient Power
-Sky Attack
-Fire Blast

It's a dinosaur! Roar!
(Do I even have to say more? It's pretty obvious what my thought process is by now.)


Tyranitar
-Outrage
-Rock Slide
-Crunch
-Earthquake

Godzilla gets Outrage as an Egg Move. Perfect. Slap on Rock STAB, the edgy type STAB, and the natural disaster that was STAB before evolution and it's good.


Charizard
-Outrage
-Fire Blast
-Fly
-Dynamic Punch

The Original Dragon is a must have for a Dragon team. (Who's Dragonite?) Outrage is an Egg move and Dynamic Punch is like Dynamite! I would've used Sky Attack for more awesome, but it turns out Charizard can't learn it. :(


Dragonite
-Outrage
-Blizzard
-Thunder
-Fire Blast

I said I'm thinking like a kid for this one. I meant it. The only problem is there wasn't enough room for Hyper Beam.

The order is based on the movesets of Lance's Dragonites in GSC. The first knows Blizzard, the second knows Thunder, and the last knows Fire Blast. For some reason, the order was changed in HGSS, so Lance's first Dragonite knows Thunder instead.




I thought children were creative. Why did thinking like a child make such an uncreative looking team? :P I look forward to seeing what more creative people come up with.

 

[Pikachu315111]

With there being two Dragon-type specialists in the Johto games showing off both the Dragon-types and what they consider dragon adjascent, this challenge begs for some out of the box thinking. So, while I do have two Dragons on my team, one is probably not the dragon you're thinking. And that's because my team is not based purely on Dragons but Asian Mythical Creatures.


Dragonite (Inner Focus. Life Orb. Outrage/Fire Punch/Earthquake/ExtremeSpeed)
Dragonair (Shed Skin. Eviolite. Dragon Dance/Outrage/Iron Tail/Roost)
Lapras (Water Absorb. Shed Shell. Surf/Ice Beam/Dragon Pulse/Perish Song)
Arcanine (Intimidate. Wise Glasses. Heat Wave/Dragon Pulse/Will-O-Wisp/ExtremeSpeed)
Nidoqueen (Poison Point. Leftovers. Earthquake/Outrage/Toxic/Rest)
Primeape (Anger Point. Muscle Band. Close Combat/Outrage/U-turn/ThunderPunch)

A mythical roll call

• Dragonite & Dragonair: Both represent the Japanese Dragon. Dragonite is an all-out attacker (even got a special one from the Dragon Den which knew ExtremeSpeed), representing the fury wrath they possess. Dragonair takes a more defensive approach, boosting its stats and healing until the time is right to strike, representing their endurance & cunningness.
  
  
• Lapras: Represents the Turtle Dragon. Many are probably going to go with tried and true Gyarados, but Gyarados is also a Japanese Dragon. If I were to have another water-based dragon-like on my team, I want it representing another kind of Asian dragon. While many would more readily relate Lapras to the Scottish Loch Ness Monster, that shell on its back directly relates it to the Turtle Dragon myth as well. The only learner of Perish Song here, I decided to make Lapras a Pokemon meant to be switched in and then out, it having Water Absorb so it can be switched in for Arcanine and Nidoqueen if against a Water-type opponent, and having Shed Shell so nothing it preventing it from escaping.
  
  
• Arcanine: Representing the Shisa (and other such guardian figures). With Arcanine learning Dragon Pulse but no Physical Dragon-type Moves, I decided to go mostly Special with it, though still giving it ExtremeSpeed. Afterall it's a guardian figure; It has Intimidate to scare off unwanted guests, would prefer to primarily attack from long range, inflict painful burns to further warn off intruders, and finally ExtremeSpeed so it has quick reflexes if things come to physicality.
  
  
• Nidoqueen: Representing Moon Rabbits. Now why did I pick Nidoqueen instead of Nidoking? I felt Nidoqueen would do a better job at representing the idea of a Moon Rabbit better than Nidoking which is just a brute. Moon Rabbits are best known for the myth of making something in a mortar and pestle on the moon. Some legends say its the Elixir of Life, others says its rice cakes or mochi, and some just medicine. So with that, I figure while I'd give it Leftovers and Rest for healing, it would also know its way around poisons so has Poison Point and Toxic.
  
  
• Primeape: Representing both Monkey King Sun Wukong & Pig Monster Zhu Bajie from the famed tale Journey to the West. A brute with some tricks up their sleeve, you better be careful how you approach Primeape as one wrong choice can result in it maxing its Attack, scoring a super effective hit, and/or than retreating for an ally more suitable for the situation.

FUN FACT: Originally I was actually thinking of doing a Journey to the West team. Pretty much most of my team I have would be on there, but what made me switch focus was not wanting both Sun Wukong and Zhu Bajie represented by one mon. I would have used Mamoswine for Zhu Bajie, but Mamoswine doesn't learn any Dragon-type Moves and that's one criteria I required at the very least.

 

[R_N]

Dragonite
Kingdra

Gotta have the boys on deck

Yanmega

It's a dragonfly, and Yanmega in particular is quite monstrous, no? It was the first to come to mind when picking a HGSS dragon-stand in

Meganium

Yeah you thought we'd be done with dinosaurs are dragons, didn't you? You fool.
And how often do you really get to call on Meganium for something like this anyway? The answer is: you don't, it's literally "Dragons in the Johto games" or nothing. So let's live a little, get that Apatosaur in here with the other big boys! It goes nicely with Yanmega too, aesthetically.

Nidoking

It's also quite monstrous, kind of similar to Aerodactyl it does have this kind of "draconic" vibe to it. It's fierce, it Thrashes, it's likely based on Baragon and hey that bad boy breathes fire and is in its universe probably a dinosaur. Nidoking's extremely wide special movepool also fits in nicely with Dragon types, I think.

Tyranitar

I feel like if you showed people Tyranitar in a vacuum, and asked if they thought it was a dragon type, they'd probably agree. If nothing else it's got parity with the level of destruction it can bring around, it's equivalent to Dragonite in terms of statistics, it's likely based on Godzilla so hey that even goes with my Nidoking. It even fights Mecha Godzilla (also the Pokestar Studios, also Iron Thorns) aka Duraludon and hey that's a dragon! And Baxcalibur is cut from the same Godzilla cloth (or maybe Ultraman, but they did reuse the Godzilla suit for some monsters, so).

e: I think I accidentally made a Kaiju team considering Megagurius is also an ancient dragonfly

 

[Ironmage]

Dragon trainers in Johto have a starting culture associated with them. And it would be hard for a trainer from Johto to avoid that: all locations where Dratini can be regularly caught require going through the clan-controlled Blackthorn city. But if HGSS is known for anything, it's how much there is to do independent of regular progression. Might as well write around "from Johto" too while I'm looking for loopholes. The tourist in question has the occasional trick up their sleeve for a mirror match in case the old fogeys get uppity about their style.


Kingdra @ Wide Lens
Ability: Sniper
- Hydro Pump
- Blizzard
- Signal Beam
- Draco Meteor
I can't really ascribe Horsea's available locations to an optional attraction, so I tailored the moveset instead. This is straight up one of the Frontier movesets. I considered a more player-facing Frontier reference by focusing on the availible TMs and tutors, but it didn't feel cohesive.


Dragonite @ Haban Berry
Ability: Inner Focus
- Ice Punch
- Dragon Dance
- Outrage
- Earthquake
While available from the Game Corner, there's a more famous prize mon later down the line. I instead have this particular Dratini as coming from the Safari Zone instead. Don't worry about the item or choice of elemental move, nothing to see here.


Porygon2 @ Leftovers
Ability: Trace
- Recover
- Thunderbolt
- Ice Beam
- Thunder Wave
Someday I might make a Kanto/Johto team for this without the Porygon line, but that day is not today. I will grumble about the Dubious Disc being locked behind Rock Climb, though. Anyway, it's the 9999 game corner coin payment we all know and love.


Scizor @ Choice Band
Ability: Technician
- Bullet Punch
- Knock Off
- U-turn
- Bug Bite
Scyther is exclusive to the Bug-Catching Contest, and the guaranteed Metal Coat is obtained on the SS Aqua. I went with Bug Bite here as an extra Technician move even though it doubles up on a not-great STAB.


Arcanine @ Expert Belt
Ability: Intimidate
- Thunder Fang
- Extreme Speed
- Flare Blitz
- Dragon Pulse
The Pokeathlon Dome is a noticeable feature, but it doesn't have clear overlap with battling effects. I noticed that it was however a source of evolution stones and heart scales, so I included a stone evolution with a relearner move (in this case, Thunder Fang). It's also a Legendary Pokemon (dex title) with Extreme Speed, for comedy purposes.


Lanturn @ Lum Berry
Ability: Volt Absorb
- Ice Beam
- Surf
- Discharge
- Mimic
I figured the last slot should be something that the tourist had before coming to Johto (also I ran out of good locations, the Pal Park is awkward to represent with a dex restriction). Fortunately(?), nowhere does "mons that feel foreign while still being in the regional dex" better than Johto. In addition to being a mon I can't believe isn't from Hoenn, Lanturn plays well into the minor theme of contesting the established Dragon users: Volt Absorb Lanturn resists/ is immune to all of Fire/Ice/Electric, and can counter with its own Ice Beam or a Mimicked Dragon Move (Mimic is also transfer-exclusive to further show it's from out of town).

 

[Hugin]

Congrats to SturdyShedinja, well-deserved.

So this is definitely a challenge where part of the problem is the excess of options. So what do we know about dragons? They're destructive, mythical, ancient, and BIG. Thus I give you: That's No Moon.

With the exception of Kingdra, every mon is massive. TTar is the smallest at 6'7", but it's a pseudo-legendary based on a draconic kaiju. In later gens it would get an 8'2" mega to tie with Mamoswine, which is my Gen 4 rep and also ties into dragons as fossils arguably better than the actual fossils available. Gyarados and Steelix are both extremely dragon, learning dragon-type moves and being based on dragons, and are some of the largest mons in the game. And then there's Kingdra and Dragonite, which are obvious.

This leader started as the biggest kid in the area, 5' at age 10, with an itty bitty Horsea as her starter. 30 years later she's still 5'0, and vanishes next to her mons. But she still calls everyone else Pipsqueak.

Moveset

Steelix @ Life Orb
Ability: Rock Head
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Iron Head
- Earthquake
- Explosion

Gyarados @ Lum Berry
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Outrage
- Waterfall
- Bounce
- Dragon Dance

Tyranitar @ Leftovers
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Stone Edge
- Crunch
- Substitute
- Focus Punch

Mamoswine @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Snow Cloak
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Brave Nature
- Avalanche
- Earthquake
- Curse
- Ice Shard

Dragonite @ Damp Rock
Ability: Inner Focus
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Thunder
- Hurricane
- Surf
- Rain Dance

Kingdra @ White Herb
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Surf
- Draco Meteor
- Ice Beam
- Rain Dance

This is a lot of moves with drawbacks and builds with ways around those drawbacks. Which matches Dragon as a skilled-trainer only type and as an endgame powerhouse. Steelix is a standard Lead+Boom set. Gyarados has Outrage+Lum Berry to dodge status or self-inflicted confusion. TTar has lefties, Sand, and Sub(which is already miserable to fight), but also has Focus Punch. Dragonite and Kingdra are rain sweepers. Dragonite with all of the low-acc Rain moves. And Kingdra with Swift Swim, Draco, and a White Herb.

Alternates: So many. Snorlax and Kangaskan were possibilities until very late in the process. Charizard, Aerodactyl, and Yanmega were early picks, but I did NOT want to pull a Lance and end up a flying trainer with pretensions. This has 2 Dragons and no more than 2 of any other type. Dragonair was plausible, but the specific theme I went with excluded it. Nidoking was another thought, but again, when I decided Big mattered, he's not big.

 

[Imperial Magala]

I challenged myself to use as few starter Pokemon as possible, not because I don't think they fit, but because there's so many options. Lance really took advantage of the loose definition of being a dragon throughout the series.

Lance Teams

Sand Stream
+Life Orb
-Crunch
-Outrage
-Thunderbolt
-Flamethrower


Sturdy
+Leftovers
-Iron Head
-Dragonbreath
-Toxic
-Block


Rivalry
+Muscle Band
-Earthquake
-Outrage
-Head Smash
-Sucker Punch

The first half of this team is built around Sand Stream. Ttar and Nidoking are going full out offensive while Steelix is the status dealer. I flipflopped between making Ttar or Steelix a lead centric build and curse Steelix before deciding that Steelix would trap opponents weakened by Ttar. Tyranitar and Nidoking are based on kaiju monsters, which are often draconic, while Steelix is serpentine and naturally learns Dragonbreath.


Swift Swim
+Damp Rock
-Hydro Pump
-Draco Meteor
-Ice Beam
-Rain Dance


Own Tempo
+Wise Glasses
-Hyper Beam
-Thunder
-Shadow Ball
-Surf


Inner Focus
+King's Rock
-Dragon Rush
-Waterfall
-Iron Head
-Dragon Dance

The second half of the team is built around Rain Dance set by Kingdra. Lickilicky is based on a chameleon, which aligns with reptiles being draconic, plus since Lance is a major influence in this challenge, I wanted to reference another champion...

Cynthia gets a Lickilicky of all Pokemon in the TCG and I wanted to pay tribute. Dragonite also references Cynthia by taking advantage of flinches, much like her Garchomp does with Dragon Rush.

As mentioned earlier, there are so many options due to the abundance of dragon mythos. I'll just throw out some options I haven't seen at all. Corsola can reference the Ryūgū-jō, Ryujin/The Dragon God's Palace built upon red and white coral. Typhlosion can reference Typhon, a serpent representing the Chaoskampf. Stantler, Rapidash, and Girafarig can reference the Kirin. Exeggutor due to its Alolan form being part Dragon. Alakazam has similar facial features to Asiatic dragons. Quagsire and Dunsparce due to folklore. There's still more I haven't mentioned.

 

[Ironmage]

This is a lot of moves with drawbacks and builds with ways around those drawbacks. Which matches Dragon as a skilled-trainer only type and as an endgame powerhouse.

There's always the interesting thing about how different people view a type. For me, expressly because it often has high stats and prominent moves like Outrage, I end up thinking of Dragon as a type that aligns with braindead offense. Lance just comes off as full of himself. Like, if Extreme Speed wasn't the signature move of the Dragon's Den, it would have been humbled into irrelevance by FEAR a long time ago. I immidiately looked for ways to subvert the pedestal Dragon was on instead of playing into it.

 

[Imperial Magala]

Like, if Extreme Speed wasn't the signature move of the Dragon's Den, it would have been humbled into irrelevance by FEAR a long time ago.

Why do you think Extremespeed is the signature move? To counteract strategies like FEAR with brute strength.

 

[Hugin]

There's always the interesting thing about how different people view a type. For me, expressly because it often has high stats and prominent moves like Outrage, I end up thinking of Dragon as a type that aligns with braindead offense. Lance just comes off as full of himself. Like, if Extreme Speed wasn't the signature move of the Dragon's Den, it would have been humbled into irrelevance by FEAR a long time ago. I immidiately looked for ways to subvert the pedestal Dragon was on instead of playing into it.

That's definitely a mechanics vs lore distinction. Because yeah, Dragon being a neutral atk against everything and resisting FWG definitely sets up "just spam STAB" as their optimal playstyle. But in-game, Dragons are lategame monsters raised by the pinnacle of trainers. Lance/Claire IIRC are only able to train them because they have a family history with the type, while the Dragon's Den is run by an ancient monk. Even in later gens, most ingame Dragon trainers tend to rely heavily on non-Dragon mons, signaling that most trainers can't handle more than a couple of them. It's an interesting contrast, the opposite of something like grass, which takes a lot of skill to play well and is portrayed as easy mode.

 

[Eeveeto]

Item: Mental Herb. Ability: Serene Grace. Moves: Stealth Rock, Body Slam, Rock Slide, Bite. Dunsparce is a reptile, so it can be a dragon. It doesn,t learn any dragon moves in HGSS, but learns them in future generations. Dunsparce's job is to put Rocks, paralyze and maybe flinch something. Humble Mon, but still has an important role.

Item: White Herb. Moves: Draco Meteor, Fire Blast, Dragon Claw, Superpower. This is just a Dragon. It uses powerful moves, 2 of which White Herb helps.

Item: Leftovers. Moves: Dragon Breath, Dig, Iron Head, Protect. Another snake Pokemon, I decided to not include Gyarados, but it could have been here too, Arbok is another option. Steelix actually learns Dragon moves, so this one uses Dragon Breath to paralyze things and then stall them with Dig, Protect and Iron Head flinches.

Item: Salac Berry. Moves: Sword Dance, Seed Bomb, Earthquake, Outrage. Best Johto starter also can be a dragon, since its a dinosaur! Instead of support or bulky offensive sets, this Meganium is tired of people not choosing it as starter and goes full agressive mode with Sword Dance and Outrage.

Item: Damp Rock. Moves: Rain Dance, Thunder, Focus Blast, Signal Beam. Ampharos is here because he has a Dragon Mega in future generations. Ampharos does learn Outrage in HGSS, but isn,t good at using the move, so it uses Rain Dance to support the ace Mon.

Item: Life Orb. Moves: Hydro Pump, Ice Beam, Dragon Pulse, Waterfall. Ace Mon is an actual dragon who just throws the most powerful moves possible.

No moves or items are repeated in order to show as many dragon moves as possible. Dragon Dance could be used on Dragonite, but it would kinda overshadow Kingdra as ace. Kingdra is better being mixed instead of DD too.

 

[SturdyShedinja]

I decided to take a page out of Lance’s book and represent the dragon type by running a mono flying team. The first four all resemble dragons and are used by Lance. Yanmega is a literal dragonfly and its prehistoric design fits in alongside aerodactyl. Lastly, skarmory fits the bill as a strong, rare, lategame pokemon and has ties to other metal birds in mythology. Bulbapedia also says it resembles a wyvern, which I don’t really see but it helps the connection.

Movesets here!
Lead aero to get rocks up early and lots of dragon moves, hyper beam, and giga impact because it’s tradition.

 

[Gryoine]

Team:

Reasoning:

These two feel too obvious to not include.


It's a dragonfly!


Boring dragon option: I feel like Gyarados as a dragon is overdone but this slot was a tossup between Gyarados and Charizard (which at least an Mega into a dragon). Since this is Johto I'm going with it as the shiny over Charizard though.


Aerodactyl is another one like Gyarados, but I opted to keep it because it has synergy with Tyranitar: a dragon-esque Pokemon who dragon trainers don't seem to give much love to, especially in this generation. I like the idea of a Tyranitar ace on a Johto dragon trainer. I also like how if it comes out early, that aforementioned synergy with Aerodactyl for the SpDef boost comes up.

Movesets would definitely include lots of Hyper Beam or Giga Impact, and Ancient Power on the Rock types and Yanmega.

Pokemon I looked into but opted against: Charizard, Meganium, Dunsparce, Mamoswine

 

[misterdarvus]

Just wanna threw in my submission. The reason of my pick? I'll reveal it after the voting is over. My hint is it's still about Lance, I knew somebody would know where this is from.

 

[QuentinQuonce]

New poll is up!

https://strawpoll.com/XOgONEQY0n3

Thoughts on numbers incoming shortly, busy rn

Edit: Okay soooo...

Thoughts on numbers

Dragonite: 11

Kingdra: 7

Tyranitar: 7

Gyarados: 4
Aerodactyl: 4

Charizard: 3
Steelix: 3
Yanmega: 3
Arcanine: 3

Nidoking: 2
Meganium: 2
Ampharos: 2

Dragonair: 1

Venusaur: 1
Blastoise: 1
Skarmory: 1
Mamoswine: 1
Dunsparce: 1
Feraligatr: 1
Lanturn: 1
Kangaskhan: 1
Nidoqueen: 1
Porygon2: 1
Lapras: 1
Scizor: 1
Primeape: 1
Lickilicky: 1

Well. This is a funny round. Rarely has there been such a disparity between actual members of the selected type: Dragonite got used in every team, Kingdra only in seven, and Dragonair in only one. Humbling Dragonair further, it got thoroughly outselected by many (many) others: Tyranitar, Gyarados, Aerodactyl... even Nidoking and Meganium. A sad day for the OG middle Dragon.

The wildcard picks are for the most part what you'd expect, but Dragon has always been a type that spreads its arms far and wide. It was funny to see very nearly all six Kanto and Johto starters make it in (sorry, Typhlosion) and to see Tyranitar do leaps and bounds better than the stereotypically Dragon-affiliated mons like Aerodactyl, Gyarados, and Ampharos.

Some creative team concepts here, though - good job all round.

Stuff I expected to see more/at all

Yanmega. We got it three times but I was expecting it to show up a lot more (partly due to the novelty of it being here at all).

Ampharos. Come ON! Even without the mega evolution it fits. Plus what other Electric-type works here?

Snorlax. Learns Outrage, is in the Monster egg group, general kaiju vibe.

Kabutops. Really either of the other fossils could work if you're going for an ancient-y, history sort of vibe for a team theme. But I guess Kingdra's Water-type makes them redundant.

Mamoswine. Same justification as the fossils really. One person did use this but it was a funky (and type-diverse) pick I figured more people might go for, even if it's not necessarily that on-brand.

Tentacruel. Had this in the Sinnoh round, but then Kanto/Johto's options are just so much better.

Exeggutor. As a fun shout-out to its regional variant.

Slowbro. The whole kaiju thing.

Arbok. Often gets lumped in with dragons. I feel like if Steelix has the right to be here so does Arbok. Don't worry, big snake. You'll have your time.

Rhydon. Actually maybe this is for the best, I don't want trauma flashbacks from all the Dragon Tamers in the Emerald Battle Frontier who use the damn thing.

 

[Hugin]

Yeah, there's a lot of good options. Between the number of Lance teams to draw on(misterdarvus ), and just the tendency to describe final evos as large, destructive, majestic, or legendary, the problem wasn't filling a team with quasi-dragons, it was narrowing one down. Speaking personally, I bumped several people's teams down my rankings for excessive Flying-spam. I'm surprised there wasn't more Dragonair, but that may be the same reason, people didn't have a need to resort to pre-evos when there's Gyarados and TTar around.

I'm a little surprised Kingdra wasn't higher. It's a really good mon, this isn't a Plusle/Minun situation, but people just went without it.

 

[Pikachu315111]

With the poll ending today, a quick rundown on last contest's winners:

Bug In Coastal Kalos

SturdyShedinja, Hugin, & Eeveeto: So, these are a bit of a surprise. Of everyone here, 1st place SturdyShedinja included all the Bug-types available, but excluded the popular Clawitzer for a surprise duo in NVE Shelgon and Carbink. I get what they were going for with their inclusion, very cacoon-y Pokemon, just didn't see them having that big of a pull. Hugin and Eeveeto are a bigger surprise as they didn't use all the Bug-types; also Hugin including a Lunatone for a fun bug fact and Eeveeto for having a niche role for Dwebble.

Me & Mike81401: And tied for 4th is my very Bug-type team and Mike81401's experimental team based of metamorphoses. Which, oddly, I think is appropirate considering the above winners. I can't help but notice everyone else below had all the Bug-types then their two creative choices (though some chose Clawitzer so for them was a 6th wild card). Yet in the top 5 only two such teams made it in though in notable positions: SturdyShedinja who won and me who's tied for last. It makes me think that, with such a repetition in the teams, everyone picked a "top" Bug team and then went looking for more interesting teams, maybe having another bug team in the 4th or 5th slot.

I'll admit, I thought I was a shoe-in here. Made the Bug-iest team I could. Even included both Mega to give it a unique appealing niche. But I suppose my last two picks didn't have theme syngery which SturdyShedinja's had. So everyone chose them as their top Bug team and then looked for some of the more interesting teams. But I shall no longer forget: relating theme is important.

Thoughts on numbers

Don't worry about Dragonair, doing good on my team... though, I'll admit, the main reason it's on my team is just so I can have a second dragon representative. Even when I was originally planning my Journey To The West team I wasn't planning on using Kingdra, though once I switched to Asian Mythicals there was definietly no place for dragon seahorse. Meanwhile Dragonair is actually more the Asian dragon representation than Dragonite, though I included Dragonite as it was a strong dragon hence it representing the strength & Dragonair the elegance.

And as Hugin noted, there was pretty much two things you could do here: either nearly copy Lance (& Clair) or try something original. The results are going to be very interesting to see which of the two gets the most votes.

Not surprised Tyranitar was use a lot. It's in a strange limbo where it's SORTA a Lance Pokemon, but also isn't. In the main games he never uses one, however in Stadium 2 and in the Special manga he has one. So for those doing a Lance expy team it's a pretty good option to reference Lance but not be directly be copying his main game teams (which you'd do with Aerodactyl & Gyarados).

While plenty of people have picked a Pokemon due to a "future" Regional or Mega having the Type, I think in general most of us (or at least me) put our headspace into the time of those games. Because, before Gen VI, I don't think anyone would have chosen Ampharos for a Dragon-type team. Heck, players outside of Japan wouldn't even know the pun on its Japanese name designating it a dragon. Even if you did know the pun I'd argue would have been an odd choice.

 

[QuentinQuonce]

With the poll ending today, a quick rundown on last contest's winners:

Bug In Coastal Kalos

SturdyShedinja, Hugin, & Eeveeto: So, these are a bit of a surprise. Of everyone here, 1st place SturdyShedinja included all the Bug-types available, but excluded the popular Clawitzer for a surprise duo in NVE Shelgon and Carbink. I get what they were going for with their inclusion, very cacoon-y Pokemon, just didn't see them having that big of a pull. Hugin and Eeveeto are a bigger surprise as they didn't use all the Bug-types; also Hugin including a Lunatone for a fun bug fact and Eeveeto for having a niche role for Dwebble.

Me & Mike81401: And tied for 4th is my very Bug-type team and Mike81401's experimental team based of metamorphoses. Which, oddly, I think is appropirate considering the above winners. I can't help but notice everyone else below had all the Bug-types then their two creative choices (though some chose Clawitzer so for them was a 6th wild card). Yet in the top 5 only two such teams made it in though in notable positions: SturdyShedinja who won and me who's tied for last. It makes me think that, with such a repetition in the teams, everyone picked a "top" Bug team and then went looking for more interesting teams, maybe having another bug team in the 4th or 5th slot.

I'll admit, I thought I was a shoe-in here. Made the Bug-iest team I could. Even included both Mega to give it a unique appealing niche. But I suppose my last two picks didn't have theme syngery which SturdyShedinja's had. So everyone chose them as their top Bug team and then looked for some of the more interesting teams. But I shall no longer forget: relating theme is important.

Don't worry about Dragonair, doing good on my team... though, I'll admit, the main reason it's on my team is just so I can have a second dragon representative. Even when I was originally planning my Journey To The West team I wasn't planning on using Kingdra, though once I switched to Asian Mythicals there was definietly no place for dragon seahorse. Meanwhile Dragonair is actually more the Asian dragon representation than Dragonite, though I included Dragonite as it was a strong dragon hence it representing the strength & Dragonair the elegance.

And as Hugin noted, there was pretty much two things you could do here: either nearly copy Lance (& Clair) or try something original. The results are going to be very interesting to see which of the two gets the most votes.

Not surprised Tyranitar was use a lot. It's in a strange limbo where it's SORTA a Lance Pokemon, but also isn't. In the main games he never uses one, however in Stadium 2 and in the Special manga he has one. So for those doing a Lance expy team it's a pretty good option to reference Lance but not be directly be copying his main game teams (which you'd do with Aerodactyl & Gyarados).

While plenty of people have picked a Pokemon due to a "future" Regional or Mega having the Type, I think in general most of us (or at least me) put our headspace into the time of those games. Because, before Gen VI, I don't think anyone would have chosen Ampharos for a Dragon-type team. Heck, players outside of Japan wouldn't even know the pun on its Japanese name designating it a dragon. Even if you did know the pun I'd argue would have been an odd choice.

And funnily enough, you're the winner for this round! Congrats.

 

[QuentinQuonce]

Morning all.

First of all, pre-emptive apologies for any slowness or delays on my part over the next three weeks or so. We're off to Edinburgh with my play in a couple of days and there's still a metric ton of stuff I have to do to be ready for that, so things are a little hectic here.

However, I still intend to find time for this thread in the coming days! After conferring with last round's winner, we have a new question... a true classic of the genre, I'm sure you'll all agree.

You are a Fire-type specialist in BDSP Sinnoh. How do you best represent your chosen type?​

A reminder to please read the guidelines in the OP before commenting, especially if you're new to the thread. You have until August 3rd, 9PM GMT to make your case!

BDSP Sinnoh Dex is here for anyone that needs it: https://www.serebii.net/brilliantdiamondshiningpearl/sinnohpokedex.shtml. A gentle reminder that BDSP's expanded roster of options compared to the original games do not count as part of the Sinnoh Pokedex so please do not include them in your selections. Any teams including Pokemon outside of the listed 151 will be disqualified.

Teams so far

Pikachu315111: Infernape, Rapidash, Chimchar, Monferno, Ponyta, Cherrim
Imperial Magala: Infernape, Rapidash, Mismagius, Skuntank, Machamp, Gyarados
Celever: Infernape, Rapidash, Drifblim, Bronzong, Skuntank, Medicham
Hugin: Infernape, Rapidash, Drifblim, Bronzong, Skuntank, Octillery
Ironmage: Infernape, Rapidash, Staraptor, Skuntank, Luxray, Azumarill
SturdyShedinja: Infernape, Rapidash, Drifblim, Machamp, Bronzong, Azumarill
CTNC: Infernape, Rapidash, Mismagius, Octillery, Skuntank, Garchomp
Misterdarvus: Infernape, Rapidash, Monferno, Driblim, Skuntank, Cherrim

 

[Pikachu315111]

Yes, FINALLY it's time! I've been waiting for this contest for a while. BEHOLD! the TRUE Fire-type Specialist Team of Sinnoh!

#FlintIsACoward

Infernape (Blaze. Wise Glasses. Flamethrower/Close Combat/Solar Beam/U-turn)
Rapidash (Flame Body. Muscle Band. Flare Blitz/Solar Beam/Smart Strike/Megahorn)
Monferno (Iron Fist. Eviolite. Flare Blitz/Mach Punch/Close Combat/Thunder Punch)
Ponyta (Flame Body. Bright Powder. Sunny Day/Flare Blitz/Solar Beam/Iron Tail)
Chimchar (Iron Fist. Focus Sash. Sunny Day/Fire Punch/Brick Break/Thunder Punch)
Cherrim (Flower Gift. Heat Rock. Sunny Day/Solar Beam/Dazzling Gleam/Morning Sun)

Operation Sunshine

First one out: Chimchar. It has one job: Sunny Day. Not going to pretend it'll has much chance to do anything else. If it can slap the opponent with its fists for some damage, great, but honestly the sooner it goes down the sooner my other Pokemon can take advantage of the sunlight.

Next out would likely be Infernape. Yup, my ace. He doesn't have U-turn for no reason. He's going to hit as hard as he can, and if an unfavorable match-up comes up or the sun goes away it'll use U-turn to get out of there.

When I'm not feeling Infernape to be out there I'd then either send in Rapidash or Monferno, depending on what the opponent has out.

Unless of course the sun isn't out, in which I'll send out either Ponyta or Cherrim to replenish it.

Cherrim could also be sent out as a surprise counter or, if needed, a staller.

 

[QuentinQuonce]

#FlintIsACoward

In his defence, can you imagine how pathetic it would be for the third member of the Elite Four to be using that many NFEs

...oh. Sorry, Glacia.

Anyway. Let's not fixate on existing NPCs too much. Interested to see where people go with this round. This is actually the first round in this thread where I've been able to decide in seconds which six I would personally use, though obviously I generally avoid stating my own inclinations until after selection has finished as I don't want to lead or influence people.

 

[Imperial Magala]

Just a reminder, myself included, that BDSP has some crazy sets for important trainers, even in initial matches.

CW: Drifblim Jank

I went with a general Fire affiliated team in the spirit of Flint. No central theme or gimmick, just a bunch of Fire type moves.


Flame Body
+Expert Belt
-Flare Blitz
-High Horsepower
-Low Kick
-Smart Strike


Iron Fist
+White Herb
-Overheat
-Close Combat
-Acrobatics
-Thunder Punch

Obligatory Sinnoh Fire types™. That Infernape set is one I made in Black/White, so I wanted to use it again.


Intimidate
+Wise Glasses
-Scald
-Flamethrower
-Thunderbolt
-Dragon Pulse

Gyarados is one of the few Water types to learn Flamethrower and Fire Blast and is considered to be an honorary Dragon type, which are associated with Fire.


Levitate
+Focus Sash
-Hex
-Mystical Fire
-Will-o-Wisp
-Destiny Bond

Mismagius is the only Pokemon with access to Mystical Fire in BDSP, meaning it beats out other Ghost types for a spot on the team.


No Guard
+Life Orb
-Dynamic Punch
-Stone Edge
-Knock Off
-Fire Blast

Machamp's Synergy Burst in Pokken has it become glowing hot, making it a fitting match for the team. It also had access to Fire Blast that it used in some sets as a way to catch Physical walls off guard.


Aftermath
+Black Sludge
-Sludge Bomb
-Dark Pulse
-Flamethrower
-Explosion

Skuntank learns Flamethrower as an evolution move, and always learned some Fire type moves like Incinerate, Burning Jealousy, and Fire Spin with Aftermath and Explosion also contributing.

Considered were Golem for the exact same reason Flint used Steelix, as a Pokemon that can endure high temperature and pressure deep underground, Lucario for being fluffy and learning Blaze Kick, Garchomp for learning Fire Fang in every game except for this one in particular because of transfer jank between Sw/Sh, Octillery due to learning Flamethrower and Fire Blast, and Vespiquen because bees defend their hive from other insects by swarming them and killing them with their combined heat.

 

[Celever]

This is a fun one so I'm coming out of hibernation. I'm choosing not to do a sun team, which means no Cherrim, because I think this is a deceptively broad one with a lot of potential.


Our Fire-Type Pokémon for the event. Not much to say about them, except we get to use a starter so that's fun.


Yup, I'm stealing from Flint for this one. Drifblim is a fairly obvious inclusion, having Flare Boost (since it's BDSP) and being a literal hot air balloon. Having an ability based around the "Fire-Type status" is more than enough to qualify it in my view.


...just like Bronzong, who has the Heatproof ability. It seems like a bizarre choice because it has inspiration from a rain bell, but it does learn Sunny Day in BDSP so clearly they're not too concerned with that inspiration (and doesn't learn Hail so it didn't just get all the weathers). This is primarily here on account of the Fire-Type ability too, as it's a meaningful gameplay link. After all, Fire-Type resists Fire-Type too.


Skuntank has always boasted an impressive Fire-Type movepool. It's not uncommon for a Poison-Type Pokémon with particular relation to gas (see: Weezing) but Skuntank is the only one in this gen to represent this. I assume it's basically just from setting its farts / skunk spray on fire but hey, why not.


Finally, Medicham is here because of its whole monk connection and the spirituality associated with Fire-Type. Buddhism is all about extinguishing the flame of consciousness, and it's this flame from which Medicham taps into its pure power. Not the best for type synergy, perhaps, overlapping with Infernape and Bronzong, but hey it's kinda appropriate with fire being quite famous for spreading.

Honourable mentions (maybe click if you're stuck lol otherwise just ignore):

Hide

Cherrim, obviously. It's always been strange how Flint didn't use this on his team considering he was a sun user lol. The thing is, I think Grass-Type Pokémon have as much claim to harsh sunlight as Fire-Type Pokémon do, so I don't think it auto-qualifies just because of its ability and Sunshine-Form. Plants prosper in the sun but they're not actually hot in and of themselves.

The somewhat reptilian Gen 1 Pokémon who learn Fire-Type attacks because movesets were anarchic back then. I'd say Golem probably works the best out of these but Machamp is a fine choice too, muscles legitimately generate heat and kind of burn after a good workout so I think the big muscle man is a pretty good choice.

Because of love / the heart's association with fire in pop culture. Blissey has a thematic claim for that reason but its love connection isn't that deep. If Luvdisc were in the game I would have picked it.

See: Medicham reasoning but a little less. The aura stuff is a bit firey in terms of its depiction in other media like Smash Bros. but I think Medicham does the "inner aura / power / meditation" stuff better.

Artillery uses gunpowder and gunpowder uses fire so it fits. Learns a lot of Fire-Type moves too.

Because those tunes are fire bruv

These two would be especially applicable this time around, but especially Azelf. Each of the Lake Guardians have a signature type and Azelf's is Fire-Type (Uxie's is Electric-Type and Mesprit's Ice-Type) because of the willpower association. Of course, we can't include them.

 

[Hugin]

Congrats to Pikachu315111.

I notice that both of us(at #1 and #2) had very clear themes to our teams, which makes sense. With the Dragon type being so broad, having any way at all to narrow it down is a big deal.

Anyway, BDSP Fire:

Not a lot of big surprises here. Bronzong has Heatproof, Octillery and Skuntank learn Flamethrower(also Octillery is a gun and Skuntank sprays toxic oil, both have fire associations), Drifblim is a hot air balloon that flies via an open fire, and Infernape/Rapidash are fire types.

Core concept is a Team Plasma leader. Specifically, the one who built the bombs for use at the lakes. Toxic fluids(produced by Skuntank provide the fuel), Octillery and Drifblim were both studied for their weaponlike/explosive qualities, and the fire-resistant screen-setting Bronzong set them off. Both Rapidash and Drifblim provide a quick getaway. Expect a lot of video essays and posts from people replaying the game as adults going "Wait, did they seriously include a pyromaniac as a random Evil Admin in Sinnoh? Why didn't I notice that when I was 8?"

Movesets

Bronzong @ Light Clay
Ability: Heatproof
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Light Screen
- Reflect
- Stealth Rock
- Explosion

Infernape @ Expert Belt
Ability: Iron Fist
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Fire Punch
- Close Combat
- Thunder Punch
- U-turn

Octillery @ Scope Lens
Ability: Sniper
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Flamethrower
- Energy Ball
- Scald
- Focus Energy

Skuntank @ Shuca Berry
Ability: Aftermath
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Play Rough
- Poison Jab
- Sucker Punch
- Haze

Drifblim @ Leftovers
Ability: Aftermath
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Gentle Nature
- Hex
- Strength Sap
- Will-O-Wisp
- Explosion

Rapidash @ Focus Sash
Ability: Flame Body
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Flame Charge
- High Horsepower
- Megahorn
- Swords Dance

Not a lot of difficult things here. Bronzong has Heatproof over Levitate for purely thematic reasons, sets screens/rocks, and explodes. Infernape has Thunderpunch for water types and U-Turns out of bad matchups or after Close Combat lowers his defenses. Octillery has Scald, Energy Ball for opposed Water types, and always crits after 1 focus energy. Skuntank has Shuca because I'm hilariously weak to ground and Haze to prevent set-up sweepers. Drifblim is the most annoying set in existence. And both Drifblim and Skuntank having Aftermath(and Sucker Punch on Skuntank) really annoys certain sweepers. Finally, Rapidash comes in, lives any 1 hit to set up, and maybe(probably not) starts killing.

There's...weird possibilities for other options. Gyarados was on my list until I decided that even if it got Flamethrower, a mixed set was just sad. Ponyta has surprisingly usable stats. Other than that, basically any fighting-type with Fire Punch, Psychic/Ghost with WilloWisp/Mystical Fire, or Flying type with Heat Wave makes sense. But getting them to match the theming isn't easy. AND all the grasses except Cherrim and most of the poisons are actually really bad fits, which is odd since that's where I expected to start my teambuilding. This one is going to be wild to see how teams break down in the end.

 

[Ironmage]

My main association with Fire in Sinnoh was Flare Blitz, as a new move that both existing Fires used due to leaning towards physical offense. As a result, I've gone all-in on sacrificing HP for better attack options.


Infernape @ Salac Berry
Ability: Blaze
- Stealth Rock
- Mach Punch
- Flare Blitz
- Fire Punch
A hazard lead that benefits from low health in both item and Ability.


Rapidash @ Expert Belt
Ability: Flame Body
- Flare Blitz
- Swords Dance
- High Horsepower
- Double-Edge
It unfortunately lacks Wild Charge in BDSP, so I used Double-Edge here instead.


Skuntank @ Life Orb
Ability: Aftermath
- Flamethrower
- Dark Pulse
- Sludge Bomb
- Explosion
I've definitely thought of poison gas as Fire-adjacent, with Koffing often appearing in volcanic areas and Smog being a common early coverage move for some Fire-types. Skuntank ends up with the Life Orb since it only has Explosion as a self-sacrificial move.


Staraptor @ Choice Band
Ability: Reckless
- Brave Bird
- Double-Edge
- U-turn
- Close Combat
The local expert on recoil moves.


Luxray @ Flame Orb
Ability: Guts
- Wild Charge
- Fire Fang
- Facade
- Iron Tail
Heracross was originally considered for the Guts user, but Electric felt a bit closer to Fire than Bug. I almost got distracted here by the pairing with Staraptor and rewrote the team to fully reference a certain spinoff focusing on Arceus, but stuck with the original idea instead for my submission.


Azumarill @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Huge Power
- Belly Drum
- Aqua Jet
- Play Rough
- Superpower
I seem to recall a few members of the Kindler trainer class in Emerald bringing a Water type in the back for safety reasons. In any case, is a team about self-damage for offense really complete without Belly Drum?