In that case, run Ice Punch as coverage maybe if that's so concerning, or pair it to team makes that can deal with bulky grounds and bring him out once they're gone. I don't think running a special move is a great idea as then you have to split your EVs to get stuff done, Ice Punch does a lot more damage than Hidden Power Ice however you look at it - particularly if you run Adamant. I might update the set with Adamant as it still outspeeds Pheramona at the +1.
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Move Z-Move Discussion
- Thread starter Celticpride
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i have and idea of set(didn't test it yet):
Golem-Alola @ Firium Z
Ability: Magnet Pull
EVs: 77 Atk / 252 SpA / 179 Spe
Naive Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Stone Edge
- Earthquake
- Fire Blast
this allow you to KO mega scizor, ferrothorn and skarmory(magnezone can only KO skarmory), while also being able to trap and KO heatran(non EP), aegislash, mega mawile and non EQ casteela, set-up rocks and check some mons like zapdos and alola marowak(need rocks or some prior damage), the evs allow you to KO the 3 evil steel types mentioned while outspeeding 0 spe mega scizor, i'm nut sure if the 77 atks evs are really necessary, maybe invest in bulk may be a better idea.
Golem-Alola @ Firium Z
Ability: Magnet Pull
EVs: 77 Atk / 252 SpA / 179 Spe
Naive Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Stone Edge
- Earthquake
- Fire Blast
this allow you to KO mega scizor, ferrothorn and skarmory(magnezone can only KO skarmory), while also being able to trap and KO heatran(non EP), aegislash, mega mawile and non EQ casteela, set-up rocks and check some mons like zapdos and alola marowak(need rocks or some prior damage), the evs allow you to KO the 3 evil steel types mentioned while outspeeding 0 spe mega scizor, i'm nut sure if the 77 atks evs are really necessary, maybe invest in bulk may be a better idea.
Poliwrath might be a thing in Rain with Z-Splash?
Poliwrath @ Normalium Z
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant/Jolly Nature
- Splash
- Brick Break/Power Up Punch
- Earthquake/Ice Punch/Poison Jab
- Waterfall
Atk after Z-Splash (Adamant): 793 Atk
With Jolly nature, it sits at the top of Tier 1 in speed, slower than any Kingdra basically. If they both use Z-Splash they are tied in Atk:SpAtk. I suppose that makes Kingdra, combined with it's typing, strictly better?
Poliwrath @ Normalium Z
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant/Jolly Nature
- Splash
- Brick Break/Power Up Punch
- Earthquake/Ice Punch/Poison Jab
- Waterfall
Atk after Z-Splash (Adamant): 793 Atk
With Jolly nature, it sits at the top of Tier 1 in speed, slower than any Kingdra basically. If they both use Z-Splash they are tied in Atk:SpAtk. I suppose that makes Kingdra, combined with it's typing, strictly better?
Personally, I don't like how Poliwrath's fighting STAB is fairly weak and Kabutops still seems to be a nicer physical option due to access to Aqua Jet (which, even with Psychic Terrain being around, is still a valuable thing). Not that it's a terrible option per se, just not a tremendously great one.
Garchomp @ Firium Z
Ability: Rough Skin
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly/Naive Nature
- Swords Dance
- Dragon Claw
- Earthquake
- Fire Fang
This is a really nice lure for Skarmory/Celesteela. Fire Fang nearly OHKOs max Def Skarmory after the Z-boost and Swords Dance.
(+2 252 Atk Garchomp Fire Fang vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 296-350 (88.6 - 104.7%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO) and should do the same to Celesteela.
Z-move Pursuit (100 BP) also seems like it would be pretty nice on support Tyranitar but I haven't tried it yet.
Ability: Rough Skin
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly/Naive Nature
- Swords Dance
- Dragon Claw
- Earthquake
- Fire Fang
This is a really nice lure for Skarmory/Celesteela. Fire Fang nearly OHKOs max Def Skarmory after the Z-boost and Swords Dance.
(+2 252 Atk Garchomp Fire Fang vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 296-350 (88.6 - 104.7%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO) and should do the same to Celesteela.
Z-move Pursuit (100 BP) also seems like it would be pretty nice on support Tyranitar but I haven't tried it yet.
I feel you. There is Focus Punch but that leaves it vulnerable to any Sucker Punching Dark type and a few guys in the speed tier above (most he wouldn't want to stay in or use a Fighting type attack against anyway). I'm just excited for one of my favorites to be usable.
Hyper Beam (And It's clones)... May they finally see use?
These "huge burst damage at a huge price moves" were largely seen as useless as they are pretty much weaker explosions (except leaving yourself open can actually be WORSE with dragon or quiver dance involved...)
HOWEVER...
With Z move, you can fire of an EVEN STRONGER hyper beam without needing to recharge and then firing off another hyperbeam right after. What does this mean? This daring hyperbeam strategy might have a decent chance of netting you a 2-for one trade off! While they could try to force a switch with the second pokemon they send out, you don't NEED to use hyperbeam right after the Z-move. The lack of choice specs/band however, might make it difficult to land a 1HKO even with a 150 BP move... but you can always use it as a finisher!
These "huge burst damage at a huge price moves" were largely seen as useless as they are pretty much weaker explosions (except leaving yourself open can actually be WORSE with dragon or quiver dance involved...)
HOWEVER...
With Z move, you can fire of an EVEN STRONGER hyper beam without needing to recharge and then firing off another hyperbeam right after. What does this mean? This daring hyperbeam strategy might have a decent chance of netting you a 2-for one trade off! While they could try to force a switch with the second pokemon they send out, you don't NEED to use hyperbeam right after the Z-move. The lack of choice specs/band however, might make it difficult to land a 1HKO even with a 150 BP move... but you can always use it as a finisher!
I can definitely see this happening, both Hyper Beam and Giga Impact. 200 BP moves that have great neutral coverage with a variety of other STABs is no joke, and nearly every pokemon gets them.
@ Normalium Z
- Nasty Plot
- Thunderbolt
- Hyper Beam
- HP Fire / Knock Off
Like, this set. What exactly can handle it?
+2 252 SpA Thundurus Hyper Beam (200 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Latias: 336-396 (92.3 - 108.7%)
+2 252 SpA Thundurus Hyper Beam (200 BP) vs. 252 HP / 112 SpD Hippowdon: 480-565 (114.2 - 134.5%)
+2 252 SpA Thundurus Hyper Beam (200 BP) vs. 248 HP / 144 SpD Mega Venusaur: 320-377 (88.1 - 103.8%)
+2 252 SpA Thundurus Hyper Beam (200 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Tangrowth: 306-360 (75.7 - 89.1%)
This is one move that, just by virtue of raw power, can substitute for a bunch of coverage moves simultaneously.
Unaware Clefable and Quagsire are both 2HKO'd by a combination of one other move and Z-Hyper Beam. Chansey is powered through eventually. If it runs Knock Off it's checked by Ferrothorn and Excadrill, and if it runs HP Fire it's hard walled by Marowak-A... that's about it.
A bunch of other special attackers can use it pretty well, too. Serperior has shit coverage but Z-Hyper Beam patches that up a bit. Keldeo can lure a few things with it too.
Anyway, I'm really liking Ghostium-Z Aegislash. 160 BP Shadowballs ruin lives, it basically has no safe switch ins except for Mandibuzz (and Alolan Muk? He could be cool but I'm not seeing it ever.) You can do some riduclous stuff with Z-moves and I'm really interested in seeing what people come up with.
Would like to point out that Eevee gets celebrate, so ALL eeveelutions have access to a one-time +1 to all stats. I'd say Jolteon, Sylveon, and Leafeon would benefit the most from this. And no, I'm not saying use Leafeon in OU. Please don't do that. There ARE other metas besides OU.
Landorus-Therian @ Flyinium Z
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 64 HP / 252 Atk / 192 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Fly
- Gravity / Smack Down
- Swords Dance
I made that set to lure Grass-type mons such as Tapu Bulu or Tangrowth to make a M-Gyarados sweep more potent.
The idea is that this set attracts them like magnets, as only Grass-Type mons and Buzzwole can take on Earthquake after Gravity/Smack Down in OU. It still packs a lot of punch against other mons, acting as a kind of Free Kill button and that's hella fun to see how monstruous the damages can be.
Numbers speak louder than words so i'll just show you some calcs :
- +0 252 Atk Landorus-T Z-Fly (175 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Tangrowth: 384-452 (95 - 111.8%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO
- +0 252 Atk Landorus-T Z-Fly (175 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Tapu Bulu: 552-650 (160.4 - 188.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
- +2 252 Atk Landorus-T Z-Fly (175 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 175-207 (52.3 - 61.9%) -- 98.8% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
- +2 252 Atk Landorus-T Z-Fly (175 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Skarmory: 231-272 (69.1 - 81.4%) [18.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock w/ Adamant nature]
- +2 252 Atk Landorus-T Z-Fly (175 BP) vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Rotom-W: 212-250 (69.9 - 82.5%) [25% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock w/ Adamant nature]
- +1 252 Atk Landorus-T Z-Fly (175 BP) vs. 252 HP / 240+ Def Landorus-T: 361-426 (94.5 - 111.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
That spread I posted is subject to changes, it's the one i tested that set with (enough speed to outspeed neutral 90bs mons such as Kyurem-B) so i invite you to tweak it to find whats best.
I put Gravity in the main slash to give more room to bomb those Celesteela fuckers, but Smack Down is an option if your team is febrile against Ground attacks under Gravity.
It's a rly good mon to pair with shit that love Bulky Grass-types getting sent to the shadow realm, such as M-Gyarados, Zygarde or even M-Sharpedo if you like using cool mons.
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I was thinking of how lead Azelf might appreciate having a nuke of a move without having to kill itself. I was thinking of the following:
Azelf @ Normalium-Z/Psychinium-Z
Ability: Levitate
EV's: 252 SpA / 4 SpD/ 252 Spe
Jolly/Hasty nature
- Stealth rock
- Giga impact/Hyper beam/Psychic
- Explosion
- Taunt? (Filler)
The idea here is to give suicide Azelf even more kill pressure against opposing leads, by allowing it to nuke the opponent and live to tell the tale (and keep rocks up). Hyper beam/Giga impact and STAB Psychic are its strongest options, with Giga impact allowing Azelf to run a Jolly nature. Breakneck Blitz gives a little better neutral coverage than Shattered Psyche, but it makes Azelf even more vulnerable to Aegislash (ghosts in general). There is still a moveslot free for Taunt to beat opposing leads. However, predicting will be very important as it dies easily without a Focus sash.
Advantages:
-2 nukes!
-1 of them doesn't kill you, allowing Azelf to perhaps set up rocks again after a Defog or a Rapid spin.
Disadvantages:
-You dedicate your Z-move to an offensive attack instead of a utility one.
-You are very vurnerable without the sash.
I know that Azelf has a very hard time in the new meta with Aegi, Genesect and Pheromosa running around, but I choose it because of its theoretical potential with it. If Azelf happens to drops to UU, it might be a very threatening set there too.
Azelf @ Normalium-Z/Psychinium-Z
Ability: Levitate
EV's: 252 SpA / 4 SpD/ 252 Spe
Jolly/Hasty nature
- Stealth rock
- Giga impact/Hyper beam/Psychic
- Explosion
- Taunt? (Filler)
The idea here is to give suicide Azelf even more kill pressure against opposing leads, by allowing it to nuke the opponent and live to tell the tale (and keep rocks up). Hyper beam/Giga impact and STAB Psychic are its strongest options, with Giga impact allowing Azelf to run a Jolly nature. Breakneck Blitz gives a little better neutral coverage than Shattered Psyche, but it makes Azelf even more vulnerable to Aegislash (ghosts in general). There is still a moveslot free for Taunt to beat opposing leads. However, predicting will be very important as it dies easily without a Focus sash.
Advantages:
-2 nukes!
-1 of them doesn't kill you, allowing Azelf to perhaps set up rocks again after a Defog or a Rapid spin.
Disadvantages:
-You dedicate your Z-move to an offensive attack instead of a utility one.
-You are very vurnerable without the sash.
I know that Azelf has a very hard time in the new meta with Aegi, Genesect and Pheromosa running around, but I choose it because of its theoretical potential with it. If Azelf happens to drops to UU, it might be a very threatening set there too.
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Also, all the kanto starters apparently get Celebrate. +1s for EVERYONE!!!
Fortunately, Z crystals cannot be knocked off mich like mega stones.I can definitely see this happening, both Hyper Beam and Giga Impact. 200 BP moves that have great neutral coverage with a variety of other STABs is no joke, and nearly every pokemon gets them.
@ Normalium Z
- Nasty Plot
- Thunderbolt
- Hyper Beam
- HP Fire / Knock Off
Like, this set. What exactly can handle it?
+2 252 SpA Thundurus Hyper Beam (200 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Latias: 336-396 (92.3 - 108.7%)
+2 252 SpA Thundurus Hyper Beam (200 BP) vs. 252 HP / 112 SpD Hippowdon: 480-565 (114.2 - 134.5%)
+2 252 SpA Thundurus Hyper Beam (200 BP) vs. 248 HP / 144 SpD Mega Venusaur: 320-377 (88.1 - 103.8%)
+2 252 SpA Thundurus Hyper Beam (200 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Tangrowth: 306-360 (75.7 - 89.1%)
This is one move that, just by virtue of raw power, can substitute for a bunch of coverage moves simultaneously.
Unaware Clefable and Quagsire are both 2HKO'd by a combination of one other move and Z-Hyper Beam. Chansey is powered through eventually. If it runs Knock Off it's checked by Ferrothorn and Excadrill, and if it runs HP Fire it's hard walled by Marowak-A... that's about it.
A bunch of other special attackers can use it pretty well, too. Serperior has shit coverage but Z-Hyper Beam patches that up a bit. Keldeo can lure a few things with it too.
Anyway, I'm really liking Ghostium-Z Aegislash. 160 BP Shadowballs ruin lives, it basically has no safe switch ins except for Mandibuzz (and Alolan Muk? He could be cool but I'm not seeing it ever.) You can do some riduclous stuff with Z-moves and I'm really interested in seeing what people come up with.
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7pokebankou-482813242
I don't know if this actually matches the cartridge behavior or not, but using Z-Belly Drum after already using Belly Drum on Showdown is a full 100% heal. I've cranked a lot of low ladder Aegislashes doing this but I haven't seen it mentioned anywhere yet. If this is indeed the intended behavior, Azumarill's Belly Drum set is absolutely horrifying against any sort of passive opponent (or even a non-passive one if you run it with Aurora Veil cheese like I have been).
I don't know if this actually matches the cartridge behavior or not, but using Z-Belly Drum after already using Belly Drum on Showdown is a full 100% heal. I've cranked a lot of low ladder Aegislashes doing this but I haven't seen it mentioned anywhere yet. If this is indeed the intended behavior, Azumarill's Belly Drum set is absolutely horrifying against any sort of passive opponent (or even a non-passive one if you run it with Aurora Veil cheese like I have been).
Bulbapedia states that Belly Drum fails if the user's Attack is already at +6, so assuming it's right and that Belly Drum didn't change, then you may indeed use Z-Belly Drum for a full heal, as the Z-effect is technically separate from the move.
May sound scary... but it could be a very telegraphed move. If your opponent has an Intimidate user... Belly Drum will happen, and you'll be at 50%.
Which is not that bad, but certainly not what you wanted.
Z-splash Mimikyu is a great cleaner. It gets priority in shadow sneak, and has access to play rough for strong STAB. If it looks like Mimi will bite the dust before finishing its job, destiny bond. It even gets leech life if you want a bulky Mimisplash. Stealth rocks are your friend here.
Life Orb Swords Dance does more damage.
Recoil isn't a plus unless it nets specific OHKOs.
That's my current strategy for Type: Null/Sivally. STAB Explosion Z-Move does a ton of damage with him and then you can explode for real next turn. Not sure how it works with A-Golem and Galvanize yet.
Maybe Talonflame would be a good user of Z-Moves? Specifically, Supersonic Skystrike using Brave Bird as the base has Gale Wings priority and doesn't cause recoil damage, potentially allowing Talonflame to then fire off an actual Brave Bird later.
I think Serperior will be one of the best users of Z-moves. Someone already mentioned Grassium-Z Serperior earlier on but I think it's better running different Z-Stones. Last gen some people ran Hyper Beam on Serperior to deal big damage and surprise stuff like Mega Venusaur, but thanks to Z-Moves Serperior can do that way more effectively than before. In exchange for an item slow, Serperior can run a Normal type nuke that is both stronger and doesn't force you to recharge the turn after. Besides that it actually has some other options for z-moves that limit its potential switch-ins.
Serperior @ Normalium Z
Ability: Contrary
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Leaf Storm
- Hyper Beam
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Glare
Something like this is pretty standard but it works. Here's some calcs so you can see how it does against typical switch-ins. Some of these probably shouldn't switch in anyways for fear of Dragon Pulse, but Breakneck Blitz lets you deal with both the Dragon Pulse targets and other potential threats.
+2 252 SpA Serperior Breakneck Blitz (200 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Mega Charizard Y: 267-315 (89.8 - 106%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO
+2 252 SpA Serperior Breakneck Blitz (200 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Charizard X: 346-408 (116.4 - 137.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252 SpA Serperior Breakneck Blitz (200 BP) vs. 232 HP / 4 SpD Mega Venusaur: 258-304 (71.8 - 84.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252 SpA Serperior Breakneck Blitz (200 BP) vs. 248 HP / 92 SpD Amoonguss: 326-384 (75.6 - 89%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery
+2 252 SpA Serperior Breakneck Blitz (200 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Kyurem-B: 330-389 (84.3 - 99.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252 SpA Serperior Breakneck Blitz (200 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Latios: 278-328 (92.9 - 109.6%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO
+2 252 SpA Serperior Breakneck Blitz (200 BP) vs. 248 HP / 180+ SpD Zapdos: 249-293 (65 - 76.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252 SpA Serperior Breakneck Blitz (200 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Dragonite: 302-356 (93.4 - 110.2%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO
As you can see nothing short of Heatran and Alolan Marowak doesn't run the risk of being 2HKO'd. This strategy is hard to use on faster mons like Tornadus-Therian who still shits on you. However it can demolish slower mons that rely on things like Mega Venusaur (which is pretty common right now) to check Grass types. A lure Serperior like this can pave the way for something like Tapu Koko or Tapu Bulu to wreak havoc. Serperior in general just seems really solid this generation. I haven't seen it much since Pheromosa and Genesect are everywhere, but with the downfall of Talonflame it could potentially be solid.
As aside, you can use Dragonium Z Dragon Pulse but it doesn't seem as good overall, as it's only 160 base power which is somewhat inferior, but I guess it's still stronger than Hyper Beam in gen 6. You hit Alolan Marowak extremely hard with it which is neat.
Also, I noticed you can turn Hidden Power into a Normal-type Z-move too. I couldn't find what base power it is but I can't imagine it's strong enough to be worth using.
Serperior @ Normalium Z
Ability: Contrary
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Leaf Storm
- Hyper Beam
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Glare
Something like this is pretty standard but it works. Here's some calcs so you can see how it does against typical switch-ins. Some of these probably shouldn't switch in anyways for fear of Dragon Pulse, but Breakneck Blitz lets you deal with both the Dragon Pulse targets and other potential threats.
+2 252 SpA Serperior Breakneck Blitz (200 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Mega Charizard Y: 267-315 (89.8 - 106%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO
+2 252 SpA Serperior Breakneck Blitz (200 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Charizard X: 346-408 (116.4 - 137.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252 SpA Serperior Breakneck Blitz (200 BP) vs. 232 HP / 4 SpD Mega Venusaur: 258-304 (71.8 - 84.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252 SpA Serperior Breakneck Blitz (200 BP) vs. 248 HP / 92 SpD Amoonguss: 326-384 (75.6 - 89%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery
+2 252 SpA Serperior Breakneck Blitz (200 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Kyurem-B: 330-389 (84.3 - 99.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252 SpA Serperior Breakneck Blitz (200 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Latios: 278-328 (92.9 - 109.6%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO
+2 252 SpA Serperior Breakneck Blitz (200 BP) vs. 248 HP / 180+ SpD Zapdos: 249-293 (65 - 76.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252 SpA Serperior Breakneck Blitz (200 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Dragonite: 302-356 (93.4 - 110.2%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO
As you can see nothing short of Heatran and Alolan Marowak doesn't run the risk of being 2HKO'd. This strategy is hard to use on faster mons like Tornadus-Therian who still shits on you. However it can demolish slower mons that rely on things like Mega Venusaur (which is pretty common right now) to check Grass types. A lure Serperior like this can pave the way for something like Tapu Koko or Tapu Bulu to wreak havoc. Serperior in general just seems really solid this generation. I haven't seen it much since Pheromosa and Genesect are everywhere, but with the downfall of Talonflame it could potentially be solid.
As aside, you can use Dragonium Z Dragon Pulse but it doesn't seem as good overall, as it's only 160 base power which is somewhat inferior, but I guess it's still stronger than Hyper Beam in gen 6. You hit Alolan Marowak extremely hard with it which is neat.
Also, I noticed you can turn Hidden Power into a Normal-type Z-move too. I couldn't find what base power it is but I can't imagine it's strong enough to be worth using.
readytolose: If it follows the trend, Breakneck Blitz from Hidden Power should be 120 base power. So no, it wouldn't be worth using.
If I was gonna use a Z-move on Mimikyu I'd probably use Z-Shadow Claw with SD instead. Mimikyu is really cool but really lacks power, with the additional 2x damage you can bop a lot of its checks, e.g.
+2 252+ Atk Mimikyu Never-Ending Nightmare (140 BP) vs. 252 HP / 88 Def Ferrothorn: 288-339 (81.8 - 96.3%)
+2 252+ Atk Mimikyu Never-Ending Nightmare (140 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Toxapex: 208-246 (68.4 - 80.9%)
+2 252+ Atk Mimikyu Never-Ending Nightmare (140 BP) vs. 248 HP / 236+ Def Skarmory: 223-264 (66.9 - 79.2%)
Just, pretty nasty damage off of 90 base attack. It also lets you act as an emergency check better, using disguise, as Never-Ending Nightmare+unboosted Shadow Sneak is appreciably stronger than LO Claw+Sneak.
Just my two cents with some experience on ladder, the only z moves I'm seeing doing real work are z-parting shot (mostly alolan Persian with the very rare silvally z-crystal user), z-conversion (I use the electric variant but I've faced mostly the ghost variant), and the occasional lure but not a lot of people seem to be running damaging ones. I hear a lot of praise over z-rain dance users but haven't personally seen it used more than once to no success.
Z-moves are gonna have an effect on the meta and I don't think there's any reason to remove them from it but it's gonna be a far more passive effect than we first thought I feel.
Z-moves are gonna have an effect on the meta and I don't think there's any reason to remove them from it but it's gonna be a far more passive effect than we first thought I feel.
Getting two swords dances is so easy with the thing that the +3 one off isn't even really worth the item loss tho.
Here's a lure I've been working on to eliminate fairys.
Hydreigon @ Steelium Z
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Dark Pulse
- Flash Cannon
- U-turn
Some calcs: so when just running flash cannon, you had predict the switch to a fairy type (let's use Clef as an example) in order to kill. Plus most of the time Hydreigon is choiced-locked. Here's the calc of LO Hydreigon flash cannon vs Calm Clef.
252 SpA Life Orb Hydreigon Flash Cannon vs. 252 HP / 84+ SpD Clefable: 203-239 (51.5 - 60.6%) -- 91.4% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
It had a good chance to 2HKO, but even with LO you had to predict the switch.
However, with Steelium Z you don't have to predict the switch to eliminate a fairy type to clear the way for one of your other sweepers while bluffing a choice item.
252 SpA Hydreigon 160 BP Corkscrew Crash vs. 252 HP / 84+ SpD Clefable: 308-364 (78.1 - 92.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery.
Even if the Clef comes in at 100% so it avoids the KO, it is now crippled. Right now a lot of common fairys resist steel (koko, Fini, Magearna) but I fully expect clef to make a comeback once Aegislash is banned.
Hydreigon @ Steelium Z
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Dark Pulse
- Flash Cannon
- U-turn
Some calcs: so when just running flash cannon, you had predict the switch to a fairy type (let's use Clef as an example) in order to kill. Plus most of the time Hydreigon is choiced-locked. Here's the calc of LO Hydreigon flash cannon vs Calm Clef.
252 SpA Life Orb Hydreigon Flash Cannon vs. 252 HP / 84+ SpD Clefable: 203-239 (51.5 - 60.6%) -- 91.4% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
It had a good chance to 2HKO, but even with LO you had to predict the switch.
However, with Steelium Z you don't have to predict the switch to eliminate a fairy type to clear the way for one of your other sweepers while bluffing a choice item.
252 SpA Hydreigon 160 BP Corkscrew Crash vs. 252 HP / 84+ SpD Clefable: 308-364 (78.1 - 92.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery.
Even if the Clef comes in at 100% so it avoids the KO, it is now crippled. Right now a lot of common fairys resist steel (koko, Fini, Magearna) but I fully expect clef to make a comeback once Aegislash is banned.
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