Move Z-Move Discussion

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EE Eevee (lol E's all around) should be paired with Aurora Veil, or screens if you din't like Hail damage.
Even so it's walled/threatened by lots of threats like Skarm, Celesteela, Metagross, Tyranitar... steels in general are a nuisance to Eevee. Skarm is the worst; it just Whirlwinds all your boosts away.

Maybe it can see some use at lower tiers.
 
So, no discussion on Eevee and its rediculous Z move? I was doing some calculations and this thing is scary

Eevee - Extreme Evoboost: +2 all stats, requires Last Resort and Eevium Z

First off, with a speed boosting nature and 100 EVs into speed, Eevee withn a plus 2 speed is just 2 points slower then a Speed boosting 252 EV speed Darkrai. And a 252 EV'd Eevee is only slower then a Deoxy's Speed. I don;t think you need to put in more then 2

Second, here are the attacks it can take after a +2 defense boost with max HP EV's, and even with a - defense nature

252+ Atk Abomasnow-Mega Wood Hammer vs. +2 252 HP / 0- Def Eevee: 211-249 (67.1 - 79.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after hail damage

252 SpA Life Orb Darkrai Dark Pulse vs. +2 252 HP / 0 SpD Eevee: 125-148 (39.8 - 47.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

252+ Atk Life Orb Pheromosa U-turn vs. +2 252 HP / 0- Def Eevee: 165-195 (52.5 - 62.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ SpA Life Orb Tapu Koko Thunderbolt vs. +2 252 HP / 0 SpD Eevee: 183-216 (58.2 - 68.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

And here is some of the damage it returns back

+2 156 Atk Adaptability Eevee Return vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Tapu Koko: 262-310 (93.2 - 110.3%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO

+2 156 Atk Adaptability Eevee Last Resort vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Bewear: 380-448 (85.5 - 100.9%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO

+2 0 SpA Eevee Stored Power (220 BP) vs. 0 HP / 252 SpD Assault Vest Hariyama: 242-286 (56.4 - 66.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Eevee @ Eevium Z
Ability: Adaptability
EVs: 252 HP / 156 Atk / 100 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Last Resort
- Stored Power
- Protect/Substitute/Yawn
- Wish/Quick Attack/Return

most of the time last resort will be all the damage you need, but you do need to use your other moves too. Stored power effectivly has 220 BP after the boost. Protect is always good, but a true annoying set could be sub. Yawn can force switchs as well. Wish works well with protect, Quick attack for some strong priority, and Return just for solid damage
His best use is quickpassing those boosts to something game ending like Mega Metagross. Sadly that isn't allowed in Smogon metas due to BP clause but it looks like a really fun sweeper for some of the lower tiers. Set up dual screens and sweep. Stored Power is REALLY weak though. Even at 220 BP and +2 it can't even guarantee a OHKO on Aerodactyl after Stealth Rocks lol. Bite actually does the same damage to Ghosts which is pretty much the only thing I could see Stored Power being used against.

I assume you still need to use all your moves before using a non-Z move last resort? In which case you're probably best off just running Last Resort + Protect. I know Last Resort Ambipom sucks balls but this hits WAY harder so maybe just run a ton of team support and hope for the best?

Like I said his niche is quickpassing but that's banned by Smogon so he probably won't find much use outside of VGC and Battle Spot.
 
His best use is quickpassing those boosts to something game ending like Mega Metagross. Sadly that isn't allowed in Smogon metas due to BP clause but it looks like a really fun sweeper for some of the lower tiers. Set up dual screens and sweep. Stored Power is REALLY weak though. Even at 220 BP and +2 it can't even guarantee a OHKO on Aerodactyl after Stealth Rocks lol. Bite actually does the same damage to Ghosts which is pretty much the only thing I could see Stored Power being used against.

I assume you still need to use all your moves before using a non-Z move last resort? In which case you're probably best off just running Last Resort + Protect. I know Last Resort Ambipom sucks balls but this hits WAY harder so maybe just run a ton of team support and hope for the best?

Like I said his niche is quickpassing but that's banned by Smogon so he probably won't find much use outside of VGC and Battle Spot.
Banned on smogon? is that some rulle about not being able to pass multiple boosts? I would think with Eevee being so frail it could be allowed.

huh did not realize stored power would be that weak. That is surprising Yeah probably better to run bite, plus a flinch chance.

I think you would need at least bite as well so you aren't walled completely by ghosts. Bite, Last Resort, Protect. With some good team support like sreens in solos or follow me/spotlight in doubles this could be dangerous
 
Banned on smogon? is that some rulle about not being able to pass multiple boosts? I would think with Eevee being so frail it could be allowed.

huh did not realize stored power would be that weak. That is surprising Yeah probably better to run bite, plus a flinch chance.

I think you would need at least bite as well so you aren't walled completely by ghosts. Bite, Last Resort, Protect. With some good team support like sreens in solos or follow me/spotlight in doubles this could be dangerous
On Smogon you are not allowed to pass any stats+speed. You can either pass any combination of Atk/def/SpA/etc. OR speed.
 
On Smogon you are not allowed to pass any stats+speed. You can either pass any combination of Atk/def/SpA/etc. OR speed.
Ah gotcha. Forgot that little rule. I did that all the time with my Scolipode lol

However would eevee be able to really take advantage of that as well? it will only be able to do it once, and then eevee is just useless afterwards due to not being able to use Last resort well at all
 
Is there ever a situation in which you can get away with running Z-Psycho Shift over Calm Mind on Swoobat? You lose out on the SpD boost, but you hit a bit harder in general / retain Stored Power BP. It also gives you the option to use a decent Shattered Psyche if setting up wouldn't be an option anyway, and I suppose lets you eat a WoW / Toxic for an easier switch in. Or is losing the +2 SpD not worth it? Is the +4 boost significant enough to warrant losing the option to do it again?
 
Is there ever a situation in which you can get away with running Z-Psycho Shift over Calm Mind on Swoobat?
There's less Pokemon you can set up on but it's easier to sweep. I think you'd want to pair it with aura veil or memento or screens so that you can actually survive a hit.

Also, I just realized that Z-Heal Block exists and that Latios learns it. Pair it with Psyshock to completely wreck Chansey.
 
300 bp Continental Crush (after STAB) is just insane, especially off a 471 attack. It truly turns my rock type mon into a wall breaker.
 
Jirachi (Max Salt) @ Normalium Z
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 HP / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Happy Hour
- Iron Head
- Body Slam/Substitute/Ice Punch
- Fire Punch

Just to be sure I searched for the natures you can obtain this special Jirachi and it can be any nature: http://www.serebii.net/events/dex/385.shtml

+2 252 Atk Mimikyu Shadow Sneak vs. +1 4 HP / 0 Def Jirachi: 134-162 (39.1 - 47.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 Atk Tyranitar Crunch vs. +1 4 HP / 0 Def Jirachi: 180-212 (52.6 - 61.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Landorus-Therian Earthquake vs. +1 4 HP / 0 Def Jirachi: 236-282 (69 - 82.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Jirachi Ice Punch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Landorus-Therian: 328-388 (102.8 - 121.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+1 252 SpA Adaptability Porygon-Z Thunderbolt vs. +1 4 HP / 0 SpD Jirachi: 204-240 (59.6 - 70.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
 
Z-Trick and Z-Switcheroo give a sharp boost to speed, meaning you can swap scarves to things, still be faster than them, and potentially baton pass out to something that could really use the speed.
 
Z-Trick and Z-Switcheroo give a sharp boost to speed, meaning you can swap scarves to things, still be faster than them, and potentially baton pass out to something that could really use the speed.
Uh... how are you supposed to Z-Trick or Z-Switcheroo items? Z-Crystals cannot be removed...
 
Something interesting I found is that Z-Toxic grants +1 Defense. Would there be any use for this on Blissey as a bulky Toxic wincon? Z-Moves are one thing Blissey can do that Chansey can't, and this seems to be the most viable one for it.
Uh... how are you supposed to Z-Trick or Z-Switcheroo items? Z-Crystals cannot be removed...
You can still use the Z-boost and get the speed, Trick/Switcheroo will just fail. Think of it as a one use Agility.
 
Something interesting I found is that Z-Toxic grants +1 Defense. Would there be any use for this on Blissey as a bulky Toxic wincon? Z-Moves are one thing Blissey can do that Chansey can't, and this seems to be the most viable one for it.
I don't think that'll work for the same reason defense curl isn't used, and I'm fairly sure that's not just because of 4MSS.

Blissey is a wall by nature, and it's really hard to sweep with walls. Any stall breaker, anything running swords dance or dragon dance, or any decently powered fighting-type would all laugh at that set and plow right through it. Heck, since swapping out would cause it to lose its defense boost, even an opposing toxic could shut it down. Compared to offensive sweepers, who either need something to revenge kill it or flat-out counter it in order to be stopped, and defensive Blissey sweep would just be too easy to stop unless the battle is already hugely in your favor anyway.
 
Something interesting I found is that Z-Toxic grants +1 Defense. Would there be any use for this on Blissey as a bulky Toxic wincon? Z-Moves are one thing Blissey can do that Chansey can't, and this seems to be the most viable one for it.

You can still use the Z-boost and get the speed, Trick/Switcheroo will just fail. Think of it as a one use Agility.
I think a better Z-Move for Blissey would be Aromatherapy, Heal Bell, or maybe Refresh. Their Z effect is that they fully heal the user. I only mention Refresh because it has significantly more PP, so it would be more useful if you end up in a stall war without the option to switch out.
 
Raticate and its Aloha version with the Hustle ability. Normalium Z can do Z-Focus Energy to boost critical and boost accuracy which can lessen the accuracy lost by Hustle. It also has STAB Double Edge or TM it Giga Impact for the option to Normalium Z a heavy hit.
 

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Is it a bug or Shadow sneak really lost the priority if used with a z move ?
And if it aren't, does z move mach punch work (breloom's mach punch OHKOs latios and tornadus after a SD and SR) ?
 
Raticate and its Aloha version with the Hustle ability. Normalium Z can do Z-Focus Energy to boost critical and boost accuracy which can lessen the accuracy lost by Hustle. It also has STAB Double Edge or TM it Giga Impact for the option to Normalium Z a heavy hit.
It's probably not worth turn it takes to focus energy.
 
Is it a bug or Shadow sneak really lost the priority if used with a z move ?
And if it aren't, does z move mach punch work (breloom's mach punch OHKOs latios and tornadus after a SD and SR) ?
Attacking Z-moves don't carry over additional effects of the moves used to trigger them. A Hydro Vortex using Scald will never burn an enemy, a Devastating Drake using Draco Meteor won't drop your special attack, ect.
 
I think Z-Focus Blast is worthwhile on Psychic or Ghost types, mainly due to the 100% accuracy meaning you don't have to run the hit or miss risk any more. Plus, if you do poorly predict and the steel/rock/dark type switches out or doesn't switch in when you expect it to, if you hit something neutrally then it usually does more damage than your STABs anyway - and you still have Focus Blast to fall back on, albeit back to the crap accuracy.

I'm currently playing a Trick Room team and have it on Hoopa-U, and it's good. As I'm running Nasty Plot plot I can OHKO Chansey after rocks, which with a special based non-STAB is a little crazy (and if I don't have an opportunity to set Nasty Plot, as mentioned I have a move that is stronger than my STABs to fire off when I choose). It also means I can just focus on special attack, rather than compromising anything by running mixed attacking stats and Drain Punch.
 
I think a better Z-Move for Blissey would be Aromatherapy, Heal Bell, or maybe Refresh. Their Z effect is that they fully heal the user. I only mention Refresh because it has significantly more PP, so it would be more useful if you end up in a stall war without the option to switch out.
I forgot to check those moves when I was looking over Z-status moves. That makes a pretty cute set of Normalium Z with Heal Bell/Wish/Protect, where Z-Heal Bell fully heals while being a cleric, Z-Wish raises SpDef by 1 (lol), and Z-Protect resets all stats modifiers (not that good but could be handy). Nothing big over Chansey, but can keep momentum a little better by Heal Belling and healing all in one turn. Hoping that eventually Blissey gets Purify for Z-Purify.
 
I forgot to check those moves when I was looking over Z-status moves. That makes a pretty cute set of Normalium Z with Heal Bell/Wish/Protect, where Z-Heal Bell fully heals while being a cleric, Z-Wish raises SpDef by 1 (lol), and Z-Protect resets all stats modifiers (not that good but could be handy). Nothing big over Chansey, but can keep momentum a little better by Heal Belling and healing all in one turn. Hoping that eventually Blissey gets Purify for Z-Purify.
BTw, can Pyukumuku run z purify and then baton pass all boosts?? or is the baton pass clause not allowing that?
 
No the baton pass clause does not allow for that, I think you can only pass speed or other stat boosts, not both.

Has anyone tried any of the other stat boosters apart from Splash, Happy Hour and Conversion?

Things like Z-Hone Claws acts like a Swords Dance for things that lack it - like Kyurem-B - allowing them to hit harder than any other set they can run without recoil (and with Kyurem-B, it makes Blizzard hit at 93% if you went mixed, which hits only marginally less hard than an LO Ice Beam).

Likewise, Z-Bulk Up is a +1 Def boost combined with +2 Atk - which can make things like Buzzwole pretty fearsome.
 
I tried Z-Belly Drum on a weird Kommo-o:

Kommo-o @ Normalium Z
Ability: Bulletproof
EVs: 248 HP / 64 Atk / 194 Def / 4 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Outrage
- Belly Drum
- Rock Polish
- Return

(I EVed it specifically to 2HKO some of the more defensive mons after Belly Drum and Stealth Rocks and to outspeed other 85's by 1)

It's... interesting, to say the least, because you essentially ensure you can always Belly Drum, and potentially even recover HP if you were below half.

I originally made the set to work in Doubles because the support from a partner and the spread damage helps it survive better there, so the set itself is probably not too viable. The effects of Z-Belly Drum, however, do have potential imo, as it allows a little more leeway in how you use your drummer in battle. I used that Kommo-o to resist hits for example and still belly drummed later in the same battle, which I usually wouldn't have been able to do.
 
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