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Zoroark

NDenizen said:
I'm quite excited for Zoroark, as I can see him being one of those pokemon whos uses change with the metagame itself - if a pokemon with a very similar moveset to him appears, but is of the poison or ghost typing, then illusion gets some great usage. I see that ability as more significant to him than his stats, which are already great in themselves.

I'm very glad that his Special Attack is the greater here, as the majority of ghosts are special attackers, providing him lots of disguises - Shadow Ball especially means he can pass himself off as a Ghost.

Substitute I can imagine being a superb move on Zoroark, allowing him to maintain his disguise longer, though on a lead it would look a bit suspicious, as would other moves the pokemon clearly does not have. Swagger and U-Turn also would allow the disguise to stay on for longer.

Here's a few ideas:

Zorogar
Disguise: Gengar

Zoroark @ Life Orb
Timid
4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
- Shadow Ball
- Focus Blast
- Flamethrower
- Dark Pulse / Hidden Power Psychic / Hidden Power Flying

This is obviously meant to take the opponent by surprise, as you're clearly using Gengar's moves. As stated before, Gengar is the perfect disguise - Dark resists Dark and Ghost, is immune to Psychic, and nobody is going to want to use Bug or Fighting moves on a Ghost. Gengar's Levitate also means the opponent will refrain from ground moves.
It's a shame Zoro doesn't get Energy Ball or Thunderbolt, as these would complete his disguise, however Focus Blast is a great move. Shadow Ball is there for disguise purposes, naturally - you may want to stick Dark Pulse on Zoroark in the case that your disguise has been removed, to get that STAB, as there really aren't many other moves that correspond with common Gengar sets. Flamethrower isn't on Gengar move either, but it does provide accurate coverage against steels and bugs. Hidden Power would be a great move to cover those Fighting and Bug types, but Psychic may be a better choice to get those Poison types, with Flamethrower covering Bug and Grass respectively.

Zorocune / Zorotic
Disguise: Suicune or Milotic

Zoroark @ Leftovers
- Substitute
- Calm Mind
- Dark Pulse
- Flamethower / Hidden Power Ground / Hidden Power Psychic / Hidden Powers Flying

The objective here would obviously be to feign a Bulky Water powering up, maybe forcing the opponent to switch or attack with a neutral damaging move. This is where Substitute gets some more usage, as it's not uncommon or unreasonable to see on such a pokemon, and keeps your disguise. Calm Mind is the move to use here, and then you have stab in the form of Dark Pulse. Flamethrower takes care of Grass pokemon that switch in, but they may not bother due to the threat of Ice Beam. Hidden Power Ground should be able to nail any electric types that switch in, and the other Hidden Powers are again there for post-disguise coverage. A lack of Ice Beam is a shame, though.

_ _ _

Obviously, if common Zoro sets gained usage, people would start predicting differently, allowing you to run genuine Gengars and other ghosts with a bit of bluff (Gengar with Dark Pulse, for example, could get the opponent using the wrong moves). Another great use would be bringing in your actual pokemon, possibly with U-Turn, and then later on bringing Zoroark with its disguise, feigning a U-Turn - instead you hit with a completely unexpected move. This would especially work well with pokemon that have Regenerate as their ability and have at least 66% HP before switching out, as the HP wouldn't be a discerning factor anymre.
I think that style of play for Zoroark mid-game would certainly work better than obviously suspect ghost leads. In the case that Zoro MUST be a lead, you can switch him out instantly feigning a worthy opponent, or by disguising yourself as a U-Turner - in which case Choice Scarf could work well on Zoro.

But yeah, i'm interested to see what other ideas people come up with.
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I like the Bulky Water bluff set, but the Gengar set seems useless, because you could just use Gengar who has better type coverage and higher SpA. I mean the only reason you would use Zoroark is for illusion to bluff types to set up, and once your illusion is gone, your screwed becuase of Zoroark horrible defenses. And with no way to set up, that Zoroark is particularly useless. IMO, With Substitute to bypass prority, and NP to boost it's already decent SpA, it still is not very good. (I guess that was more of a rant, but whatever, I have A.D.D and it is hard for me to stay on topic)
 
MofoPopo said:
I like the Bulky Water bluff set, but the Gengar set seems useless, because you could just use Gengar who has better type coverage and higher SpA. I mean the only reason you would use Zoroark is for illusion to bluff types to set up, and once your illusion is gone, your screwed becuase of Zoroark horrible defenses. And with no way to set up, that Zoroark is particularly useless. IMO, With Substitute to bypass prority, and NP to boost it's already decent SpA, it still is not very good. (I guess that was more of a rant, but whatever, I have A.D.D and it is hard for me to stay on topic)
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Stop right there for a moment. I find that Zoroak makes a great lure for potential checks instead of simply bluffing for the sake of setting up. I don't find setting up with Zoroak to be the best strategy.

Take for example, the Gengar disguise you claimed was useless. Say you bring in Zoroak as the Gengar after about five turns to act as a revenge killer. Your enemy brings in Tyranitar. You resist a weak Pursuit while staying in, and Focus Blast it straight to hell. Same thing works if there's a Scizor brought in. If it chooses Pursuit, Flamethrower. Now a potential Gengar check is eliminated, Zoroark earned a kill, and Gengar can come back in later on to sweep unhindered.

Zoroak's simply a scout without relying on Scarf/Band Uturns. It doesn't need to rely on defenses if it's taking weak resisted hits or immunities/feigned immunities (Who would ever Earthquake something they know carries Levitate, or so they think?), and has a VERY nice speed to abuse. It's a twisted version of a wallbreaker, not a setup sweeper.
 
I've actually been using this set to quite some success on PO.

Zoroark@ Choice Specs Trait: Illusion
EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Night Burst
- Flamethrower
- Grass Knot
- Hidden Power [Ice]

I look at my opponent's team and lead and think "What Pokemon on my team matches up well against my opponent?" (Suicune, Togekiss, Dragonite, Scizor, or Venusaur) and I proceed to switch my members around so that Zoroark is my lead and whichever team member that's most at the disadvantage is at the end. I've screwed up quite a bit of people with "Flamethrower Scizor".
 
I don't know if this was covered earlier, but Zoroark should run a Substitute + 3 attacks set with dark pulse, focus blast, and flamethrower to give it the most preparation for taking out a "counter."
Also I find it rather annoying that Zoroark's name is shown in the log on pokemon online.
 
I ran Zoroark on my first few teams, and it filled a few gaps pretty well. I used the Scarf variant, if that matters at all.

ScarfZoro and LO Kojondo Compliment each other pretty well. Not Double U-turning, as it gets obvious at that point, but Dark/fighting from 2 sides of the attacking spectrum is amazing.

The idea of taking out a counter to another of my pokemon with Zoro gives him merits as well, but it requires strategic placement of your team to pull off. AFAIK, the team doesn't switch around at all, so place your Late game sweeper at the end who's counter is countered by Zoro (if this has been said, it's now confirmed).

After a while, though, his power just couldn't cut it. His STAB moves just are too low-powered to consistently revenge kill...

There needs to be a Dark-type DMeteor.
 
Wob power.

I like using Zoro as a lead because most leads are similer and predictable plus it avoids entry hazerds ruining your disguise.I`ve used Wobaffet as the disguise and gotten hilarious results.They usually taunt or set up one hazerd and get killed.I never get attacked.Then with sash i can take out another mon.
 
I wonder how Lead Zoro + Ditto would work? That would just be weird.

Also GameFreak paid tribute to an awesome movie with Illusion, SD and other Zoro like qualities.
 
If you're referring to Zorro: he goes waaaay back before any movies.

Other than that, I'm glad to see Illusion isn't just a Game Freak Gimmick. The deception factor will probably be a factor many players will forget about or only be cautious of vaguely, which could lead to some nasty surprises.

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Gentlemen.
 
Noble Cactus said:
If you're referring to Zorro: he goes waaaay back before any movies.
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Aye, i'm aware of that, but for me personally I always associated Zoro with the movie. Perhaps i'm the only one, but alas.

Although I think he presents some interesting options when used by a skilled trainer, he'll probably relegated to the realm of non-standard pokemon simply thanks to his stats.
 
nighthawk said:
Aye, i'm aware of that, but for me personally I always associated Zoro with the movie. Perhaps i'm the only one, but alas.

Although I think he presents some interesting options when used by a skilled trainer, he'll probably relegated to the realm of non-standard pokemon simply thanks to his stats.
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I disagree completely. This thing can likely put up quite a bit of damage on it's own thanks to it's damned good offenses (105 base Attack and 120 Special Attack is quite nice.), and good speed in the 105 mark again. I highly doubt that Zoroak will fall below low OU, if at all. I'm not saying it's going to be centralizing at all, but I wouldn't think it'll be shoved off to the side that quickly.
 
^seconded. Zoro has performed excellently for me, and I've only used it in the lead position. There's a whole world of possibilities for Zoro, and its stats suit the job perfectly.
 
I find I have more success with Zoroak by 'bluffing' the lead, keeping Zoroak in front, but mimicing, say, Swampert. Only switch to Swampert in the lead before the match begins, after the opponent sees you have Zoroak. Decent way to keep Rocks up, and you can place another teammate in slot six that you noticed the enemy has trouble with (Like say, they have Gyrados issues, but have an obvious check. Lure it out, kill it, Gyrados is a happy megalomaniac murdering machine.).
 
IDK if I'll use Zoarark, but I can tell you right now I'll hate playing him. True, it adds prediction to the game that wasn't there before... but there's a fine line between prediction and paranoia. Good thing his stats aren't the best ever..
 
I was so pissed this morning. Switching in my Nattorei into a Burungeru just to take a flamethrower to the face. Not amused at all.
 
Hey guys I've been breeding Zorua's to try and get an upping nature for Sp.Atk + 31 Iv's in Sp.Atk because I was going to EV train to 255 for Sp.Atk but I need some information on if maybe I should go for speed instead with an upping nature for speed and then just the other 255 ev's onto Sp.Atk BUT he has so many different strategy's I'm not sure what to do.

I've bred about 120 Zorua's so far and have only gotten 9 that have an upping nature for Sp. Atk lol..

Any thoughts?
 
Rai said:
Hey guys I've been breeding Zorua's to try and get an upping nature for Sp.Atk + 31 Iv's in Sp.Atk because I was going to EV train to 255 for Sp.Atk but I need some information on if maybe I should go for speed instead with an upping nature for speed and then just the other 255 ev's onto Sp.Atk BUT he has so many different strategy's I'm not sure what to do.

I've bred about 120 Zorua's so far and have only gotten 9 that have an upping nature for Sp. Atk lol..

Any thoughts?
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Use an everstone on a female with a boosting nature(if you have one of course) try using the simple question thread next time K'.
 
TLK said:
I was so pissed this morning. Switching in my Nattorei into a Burungeru just to take a flamethrower to the face. Not amused at all.
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This is the entire point of using Zoroark. It's that one surprise attack which can break walls, eliminate checks/counters, and even sweep if the opponent is unprepared.

Get used to it, man, Zoroark is here to stay.
 
Oh I was more asking about stats but thanks like if I was going to be a special build with special attacks should I get Sp.Atk max or Speed?

I thought this was chat about Zoroark whether it was simple questions or not.. you're confusing me!!
 
How effective would zoroark be if it masqueraded as an espeon in a lead position? Entry hazard leads would be unable to set up hazards (at least thats what they think) and while they switch or attack, you set up a swords dance or Nasty Plot.

Unfortunately, zoroark is quite frail, so he may need a focus sash to ensure survival. Also, If he uses swords dance, he could use strong STAB priority in the form of sucker punch.

So would this be viable? or is it too easily stopped by attacking leads?

Side Note: Is there any hope of getting zoroark ingame outside of events?
 
I'm really tempted to run a Sub Heatran set with Substitute, Dark Pulse and Flamethrower to pose as a Zoroark. :D
 
GtM said:
I'm really tempted to run a Sub Heatran set with Substitute, Dark Pulse and Flamethrower to pose as a Zoroark. :D
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Wait... are you joking? or did you mean to say that you were going to diguise a zoroark as a heatran.

(because it is quite hard to convince an observant opponent that your heatran is a zoroark)

If you did mean what you said than... I see what you did there.
 
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