Pokémon Zygarde

[November Blue]

Wow, this thing is incredible.

Its stats are an anomaly. Better physical bulk than Hippowdon, and its Special Defense is just as good? Base 100 Attack on top of that? By all accounts, Zygarde should be slow as rocks. Look at its design. But no, it has base freaking 95.

"Zygarde will be UU because it's too similar to one of the most fearsome sweepers of Gen V."

No. That's crazy. Zygarde has a unique niche, and a definite place in OU, IMO. How many setup sweepers can completely ignore Talonflame?

Speaking of, Talonflame has a measly base 81 Attack. Zygarde is just fine with 100.

I've been using the bulky DD set, and it's performed admirably. OHKOed a Starmie at +1 with Extremespeed. Survived a Mega Lucario's Close Combat at less than 60%.

Zygarde is relevant because it has the raw bulk to attain multiple Dragon Dances where Garchomp and Dragonite couldn't. STAB Earthquake and Extremespeed are awesome.

Plus, it has a cool design.

 

[Silver Scrapes]

Zygarde is one of those pokemon that really feels unique and refreshing to use.

I've been running some Offensive DDing and, for the record, it can take 5 Pin Missiles from MegaCross (and one of them was a crit!), Dragon Dance, and OHKO back with Outrage.

Overall, Zygarde is really versatile offensively. It can Coil, Bulky DD, Offensive DD, has great typing, good offensive STABs, Extreme Speed... shall I go on?


Plus, no one else is using him. Whenever I ask people what they think of Zygarde, it's always, "Zygarde sucks." "Worst legend ever." "Zygarde is terrible." I even had one guy tell me it was outclassed by Flygon, of all things.

But it isn't. I was really underwhelmed when I first saw Zygarde, but it has completely won me over. Give him a try, please, he's good.

 

[myw]

How does one get a bulky DDance set to work?I'm finding that I can't usually outspeed the things I want to outspeed without a boost anyway, so that's the minimum EVs to outrun the more significant threats? What even are significant threats?

 

[Silver Scrapes]

How does one get a bulky DDance set to work?I'm finding that I can't usually outspeed the things I want to outspeed without a boost anyway, so that's the minimum EVs to outrun the more significant threats? What even are significant threats?

Since they have the same SPE, you can look to Kyu-B's analysis for some light on Speed EVs.

236 with Adamant could be used to outspeed positive base 80's like Mamoswine and D-Nite, which is really clutch - Dragonite's going to be getting the same use he had in Gen 5 OU any old time now when people really stop mucking about with experimental stuff and get down to serious laddering. Mamo's not going to see near as much use, though. The almighty Azumarill as designated Dragon killer will see to that. This could also nail Adamant Lucario, but I get the impression every Luc and his brother will be switching to a positive Speed nature, which would require something with Jolly to outspeed that I don't feel like calcing.

Alternatively, 72 with Adamant could be used to outrun Jolly T-Tar, something I think we'll be seeing a bit more of since he got a MEvo. Personally, 72 with Adamant, max ATK, and the rest dumped in HP is what I'm going to use for my Bulky DDing needs. Outspeeding Jolly T-Tar might come in handy, you never know; you could nail it when it Mega Evolves, although I'm not certain exactly how much EQ will do, and this leaves a lot left over for Zygarde's bulk.

Another choice (for a bit of what I consider to be an outdated speed tier now) is 56, still with Adamant. This outspeeds Adamant Breloom and Modest Politoed with max SPE, but again, I think Breloom and Politoed will be seeing some of the sharpest declines in usage ever, so I wouldn't really consider 56 an option anymore.

Edit: Jolly with 216 outspeeds Jolly Lucario, which if you care about getting the drop on him before he sets up as his MEvo (mega evolution retains the SPE of its first forme first turn), you will need Jolly with 216. It reaches 308 SPE while Lucario can only manage 306.

 

[myw]

is it that important for Zygarde to outspeed T-Tar, though? I don't think TTar hurts Zygarde that much, unless it runs Icebeam coverage, and even then...

 

[Silver Scrapes]

is it that important for Zygarde to outspeed T-Tar, though? I don't think TTar hurts Zygarde that much, unless it runs Icebeam coverage, and even then...

I don't know if you saw, but I edited my post with needed EVs to outspeed Jolly Lucario, if that matters at all.

Actually, I can't imagine it would. I don't think any M-Lucarios would try to set up on Zygarde, at least not any with sane players at the wheel.

 

[Aoda]

is it that important for Zygarde to outspeed T-Tar, though? I don't think TTar hurts Zygarde that much, unless it runs Icebeam coverage, and even then...

I'm not sure how it will threaten Zygarde. I mean, Zygarde outspeeds Mega T-Tar, so DD sets will trample over it. Coil sets won't fear what T-Tar can do on the physical spectrum, and Special based T-Tars are rare. Outside special or even defensive/support T-Tar, I doubt there'd be a variant that will want to invest in Sp.atk EVs

 

[Jaroda]

Unfortunately many of Zygarde's threats are the other Dragons in the tier as most of them feature a higher speed stat including Haxorus, Hydreigon, Salamence, Charizard X, Garchomp and the Latis and you can bet that scarf and DDance can be common enough to be a problem so Zygarde would really need two boosts to be in that safe zone. Also since EdgeQuake and ExtreemSpeed seem to be his best offensive options that leaves you with no effective move against a few. I think I would always choose to switch out of a Latios even at +1. I'd run enough speed to outrun 130s including Jolteon with HP Ice. Not terribly common but it's a good number to shoot for. CERTAINLY no slower than Greninja with Protean Ice Beam, your fastest relevant threat it appears.

 

[Zido]

...and Flygon, Bronzong, and Claydol.

Already noted Flygon/Bronzong in another post. They still aren't a viable threat. With max HP investment on the Flygon, +3 Attack Zygarde will still take out almost half of a Flygon's health with Stone Edge, and Flygon's sub-par Special Attack of 80 won't really allow it a decent chance of counter. At +4 Attack, a 2HKO is certain. Don't forget Stone Edge also has a decent crit rate. Unless you designed a Flygon to be special-based, it's not going to be a viable counter to Zygarde, and that'd be the only reason to create a special-based Flygon.

Bronzong's offenses are poor, with Gyro Ball being the only reason it can deal noticeable damage; with special offense, it's hardly a threat.

Same story with Claydol, it has good defenses, but even worse offenses.

...or Unaware Clefable/Quagsire :p

Well, Unaware has always been an issue for sweepers, that's nothing new. Clefable's new fairy typing will make it a great counter to setup Dragons, that's true. Still, you can't toss the set aside because *something* is able to counter it. Obviously nothing is immortal, but one or two counters aren't going to ruin its viability.

 

[GarchompPit]

So because I am planning an in depth video analysis on Zygarde for my series on YT I tried some sets on PS and even Wifi... I found the defensive set being decent but the most effective set I have to admit it was the specially defensive coil set.. Max HP Max Sp.Def. Careful Nature EQ/Coil/Outrage/Espeed...A nice alternative to the sp. defensive coil set is also the restochesto strategy as well (taking out Outrage or Espeed)...Maybe it's just me but I think the sp defensive coil set is one of the most effective sets that you can run on it :)

 

[NotSoClutch]

So because I am planning an in depth video analysis on Zygarde for my series on YT I tried some sets on PS and even Wifi... I found the defensive set being decent but the most effective set I have to admit it was the specially defensive coil set.. Max HP Max Sp.Def. Careful Nature EQ/Coil/Outrage/Espeed...A nice alternative to the sp. defensive coil set is also the restochesto strategy as well (taking out Outrage or Espeed)...Maybe it's just me but I think the sp defensive coil set is one of the most effective sets that you can run on it :)

i have actually had similar experience with bulky coil. I have been running attack evs with stone edge, eq, espeed.
Klefki sets up a light screen on a special attacker and dual screens on a physical attacker and zygarde proceeds to dominate the checks my opponent brings in. I miss being able to destroy garchomps, but thats what i have a greninja for. It may not be the best pokemon on paper, but with support, its a 1-4 kill threat every match it seems.

 

[RabidChipmunk]

So because I am planning an in depth video analysis on Zygarde for my series on YT I tried some sets on PS and even Wifi... I found the defensive set being decent but the most effective set I have to admit it was the specially defensive coil set.. Max HP Max Sp.Def. Careful Nature EQ/Coil/Outrage/Espeed...A nice alternative to the sp. defensive coil set is also the restochesto strategy as well (taking out Outrage or Espeed)...Maybe it's just me but I think the sp defensive coil set is one of the most effective sets that you can run on it :)

Honestly, I think Zygarde operates most effectively when not using Dragon-STAB at all. His only real options are Dragon Tail and Outrage -- Dragon Tail forces Zygarde to take a hit (which he can do, mind, but he'd rather not) and Outrage leaves him unable to switch moves and vulnerable to being revenge-killed. He needs to be able to use Extreme Speed on a whim to keeps his sweep going. In my mind, his most optimal moveset is Coil, Earthquake, Extreme Speed, and Stone Edge (I'm pretty sure the only Pokemon who resists all three of these moves is Bronzong, and wtf is Bronzong going to do to you).

 

[Shroomisaur]

In my experience, Zygarde has been... interesting. It's very much been an all-or-nothing Pokemon. My favorite set has been the bulky Coil set, consisting of:

Zygarde @ Leftovers
- Coil
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- Substitute

I find substitute necessary to protect against status since it absolutely ruins Zygarde. I agree that Dragon STAB isn't very useful, unless you're using Dragon Tail on a very hazard-oriented team. This set has won some matches in impressive 5-0/4-0 fashion because once it sets up it is very difficult to stop, and yet against other teams it is nearly useless. The main problem is that although Zygarde's bulk is very impressive, its unboosted attacks are quite weak and it *needs* to get 2-3 boosts in order to be effective. Against teams with multiple Ice-users and/or phazers, Zygarde just can't get things going.

 

[Aoda]

Unfortunately many of Zygarde's threats are the other Dragons in the tier as most of them feature a higher speed stat including Haxorus, Hydreigon, Salamence, Charizard X, Garchomp and the Latis and you can bet that scarf and DDance can be common enough to be a problem so Zygarde would really need two boosts to be in that safe zone. Also since EdgeQuake and ExtreemSpeed seem to be his best offensive options that leaves you with no effective move against a few. I think I would always choose to switch out of a Latios even at +1. I'd run enough speed to outrun 130s including Jolteon with HP Ice. Not terribly common but it's a good number to shoot for. CERTAINLY no slower than Greninja with Protean Ice Beam, your fastest relevant threat it appears.

Within that list I fear special variants of Salamenche and Hydreigon, Mixed Charizard X, Mixedmenche, and the Lati's (especially Latias later on)

 

[Jaroda]

So because I am planning an in depth video analysis on Zygarde for my series on YT I tried some sets on PS and even Wifi... I found the defensive set being decent but the most effective set I have to admit it was the specially defensive coil set.. Max HP Max Sp.Def. Careful Nature EQ/Coil/Outrage/Espeed...A nice alternative to the sp. defensive coil set is also the restochesto strategy as well (taking out Outrage or Espeed)...Maybe it's just me but I think the sp defensive coil set is one of the most effective sets that you can run on it :)

With Leftovers I'm guessing on the SpD set? Honestly I think there is a more balanced EV spread in there somewhere. I'm sure there are some minimum speed EV'S in there to outpace something critical. minimum Togekiss maybe? Or max speed Azumarill? I think some of the SpD EV'S should go into Atk too since 100 uninvested requires substantial boosting to be dangerous. Intimidate Gyarados could be bad for example if you miss or can't KO with Stone Edge and you get Dragon Tailed out for big damage. I'd need to run calls but I think we can optimize here. :)

 

[GarchompPit]

With Leftovers I'm guessing on the SpD set? Honestly I think there is a more balanced EV spread in there somewhere. I'm sure there are some minimum speed EV'S in there to outpace something critical. minimum Togekiss maybe? Or max speed Azumarill? I think some of the SpD EV'S should go into Atk too since 100 uninvested requires substantial boosting to be dangerous. Intimidate Gyarados could be bad for example if you miss or can't KO with Stone Edge and you get Dragon Tailed out for big damage. I'd need to run calls but I think we can optimize here. :)

I totally agree with you!It needs some adjustments..Like ofc the ev spread..I adjusted my set..

Zygarde @ Leftovers
Ability: Aura Break
EVs: 252 HP / 208 SDef / 48 Spd
Careful Nature
- Coil
- Earthquake
- Extreme Speed
- Stone Edge

With this spread you can outspeed Defensive Jirachi/Manaphy/Magnezone/Ho-oh/Dialga with 0 Spd evs.. I don't know much about the Ubers'/OU's speed tiers so I am not sure.. :)

 

[Jaroda]

I totally agree with you!It needs some adjustments..Like ofc the ev spread..I adjusted my set..

Zygarde @ Leftovers
Ability: Aura Break
EVs: 252 HP / 208 SDef / 48 Spd
Careful Nature
- Coil
- Earthquake
- Extreme Speed
- Stone Edge

With this spread you can outspeed Defensive Jirachi/Manaphy/Magnezone/Ho-oh/Dialga with 0 Spd evs.. I don't know much about the Ubers'/OU's speed tiers so I am not sure.. :)

What do you mean 0 Spd EVs? You put in 48 it says.

You'll get more bang for your EV buck if you choose Impish or Adamant instead of Careful since you're not maxing out the stat, you'll get more EVs overall, and you're not boosting it either.

 

[GarchompPit]

What do you mean 0 Spd EVs? You put in 48 it says.

You'll get more bang for your EV buck if you choose Impish or Adamant instead of Careful since you're not maxing out the stat, you'll get more EVs overall, and you're not boosting it either.

I meant that you can out speed Jirachi/Manaphy/Ho-oh/Dialga if they have 0 Evs in speed! (Also Magnezone with max speed-Timid)..Changed nature..Thanks!

 

[Kadabrium]

The general rule of choosing nature is to boost the stat that would be the highest if the nature were neutral.

 

[Kadabrium]

Dragon tail generally I feel is too situational. It is only useful against phazers slower than him.

The derproblem of Z is that the power and/or coverage of each of its moves is so poor, that it gets one of the most severe 4mss despite having a total of 5 viable moves.

 

[Edgar81539]

I love how everybody was quick to dismiss this little beast only on base to his stats. They got corrected, since Zygarde is one of the best, if not the best, setup sweeper on Overused Beta. I think that even if we get Dragon Rush as a tutor move, I won't stop using my EdgeQuake/ES/Coil Zygarde, it's just too perfect on this priority /AssaultVest packed metagame.

 

[Kaka-Sensei]

When I first saw Zygarde, I was appalled. Useless ability, Relatively Low BST, Typing that makes it look like a Wannabe Garchomp, and an ugly sprite.

Upon further inspection, it's got some good defenses in 108/121/95. Electric Immunity is always good. And unlike Kyurem, this guy has a great, if not, amusing movepool in Dragon Dance, Coil, Rock Slide/Stone Miss, Earthquake, Outrage, Glare, Crunch, Dragon Tail, Extreme Speed, and Haze.
If I'm going to use Zygarde I think I'd go for an Assault vest set. It has the offensive and defensive capabilities, as well as a wide movepool.

Zygarde @ Assault Vest
Trait: Aura Break
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Extreme Speed
- Outrage
- Earthquake
- Dragon Tail

He can phaze for hazard damage early-game. He can clean up late-game. He can hit like a truck, and he can take hits that aren't Ice-type.

 

[Specogrunt]

But wait Guys... This thing can learn Defog XD... Just kidding, Gen 6 defog is useful because it removes all entry hazards (stealth rocks and stuff)
So I was thinking

Dragon Tail
Haze
Glare
Defog

with max Defence and attack Ev. Tell me what you think. By the way I am new to this forum :)

 

[GarchompPit]

After a lot of research on wifi/PS and with the help of Smogon and other pokemon related websites I managed to create an in-depth video analysis for Zygarde..I don't know if this is should be posted here or not..If I am not allowed to post a youtube video here please remove my post..Thanks!
So I think my video expresses MY opinion about Zygarde and its capabilities in today's metagame...(Watch the video analysis for more info(English is my second language so sorry if you find any mistakes))

 

[Cheatingtaco]

Bottom line- Zygarde is good until you realise he's a legendary.