And so? Being a legendary doesn't make a pokemon automatically good. See Articuno, Moltres, Regice, Regirock, Phione, Entei, Mesprit, Cresselia and Kyurem.Bottom line- Zygarde is good until you realise he's a legendary.
And so? Being a legendary doesn't make a pokemon automatically good. See Articuno, Moltres, Regice, Regirock, Phione, Entei, Mesprit, Cresselia and Kyurem.Bottom line- Zygarde is good until you realise he's a legendary.
Kyurem Is'nt actually that bad, BW kyurem is mediocre but B2W2 Kyurem (Normal Kyurem not blaack or white kyurem) anyway B2W2 Normal Kyurem's stats were raised so it has 130 atk and 130 spatkAnd so? Being a legendary doesn't make a pokemon automatically good. See Articuno, Moltres, Regice, Regirock, Phione, Entei, Mesprit, Cresselia and Kyurem.
Zygarde isnt that ugly and BTW Assualt Vest only allows you to use Physical moves so you wouldnt be able to Dragon DanceWhen I first saw Zygarde, I was appalled. Useless ability, Relatively Low BST, Typing that makes it look like a Wannabe Garchomp, and an ugly sprite.
Upon further inspection, it's got some good defenses in 108/121/95. Electric Immunity is always good. And unlike Kyurem, this guy has a great, if not, amusing movepool in Dragon Dance, Coil, Rock Slide/Stone Miss, Earthquake, Outrage, Glare, Crunch, Dragon Tail, Extreme Speed, and Haze.
If I'm going to use Zygarde I think I'd go for an Assault vest set. It has the offensive and defensive capabilities, as well as a wide movepool.
Zygarde @ Assault Vest
Trait: Aura Break
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Extreme Speed
- Outrage
- Earthquake
- Dragon Tail
He can phaze for hazard damage early-game. He can clean up late-game. He can hit like a truck, and he can take hits that aren't Ice-type.
UP until this gen, though, we've always had really decent third legendaries. Suicune, Rayquaza, Giratina and somewhat Kyurem were all very good.And so? Being a legendary doesn't make a pokemon automatically good. See Articuno, Moltres, Regice, Regirock, Phione, Entei, Mesprit, Cresselia and Kyurem.
But not most of the ones I named. Point is, being legendary doesn't make a pokemon good, and being this useful on Beta OU when everybody was quick to dismiss Zygarde as pathetic, is amazing.UP until this gen, though, we've always had really decent third legendaries. Suicune, Rayquaza, Giratina and somewhat Kyurem were all very good.
I'm not dismissing him, he's a great pokemon, I just think he lacks the firepower to even compete with his predecessors.But not most of the ones I named. Point is, being legendary doesn't make a pokemon good, and being this useful on Beta OU when everybody was quick to dismiss Zygarde as pathetic, is amazing.
How is Zygarde not comparable to these 4? Nobody's claiming Zygarde will be an uber threat like Rayquaza and Giratina, but he's too good to be UU like Suicune, or no man's land (BL) like Kyurem (yes his forms are decent in OU and Uber, but if you think Zygarde's a disgrace to the legendary name, just look a Kyurem-B who has the 2nd highest BST ever, and isn't uber). I really don't know why we're even mentioning the L word, because for me the only thing it means is that they can't breed.UP until this gen, though, we've always had really decent third legendaries. Suicune, Rayquaza, Giratina and somewhat Kyurem were all very good.
All I'm saying is that he is definatly not a unique pokemon and, in my opinion, has far too many checks & counters. Why has nobody brought up Azumarill yet? I'm definatly not dismissing him, I'm just saying his bad offensive movepool + terrible BST + very bad typing = UU at best.How is Zygarde not comparable to these 4? Nobody's claiming Zygarde will be an uber threat like Rayquaza and Giratina, but he's too good to be UU like Suicune, or no man's land (BL) like Kyurem (yes his forms are decent in OU and Uber, but if you think Zygarde's a disgrace to the legendary name, just look a Kyurem-B who has the 2nd highest BST ever, and isn't uber). I really don't know why we're even mentioning the L word, because for me the only thing it means is that they can't breed.
Not unique? He has some pretty rare moves like coil and extreme speed. Access to extremespeed in this priority heavy metagame alone makes him worth a look. He can beat every priority user I can think ofAll I'm saying is that he is definatly not a unique pokemon
Aqua jets from Azumarill can 5HKO (18.7-22.6) an unboosted Zygarde (which is rare since Zygarde can coil very easily considering his bulk), while Earthquake 2HKO's (52.7-62.4) Azumarill. Azu's Play Rough 2HKO's (choice band sets do OHKO though) Zygarde , but since Zygarde's faster, Zygarde still wins in most situationsWhy has nobody brought up Azumarill yet?
Shallow? Yes. Bad? No. He has 2 great boosting moves that make up for his below average atk, and access to earthquake, extremespeed, stone edge, and crunch (yeah, that's pretty much it), but only 9 pokemon (Breloom, Virizion, Chesnaught, Torterra, Bronzong, Claydol, and Flygon, and only the last 3 can really hit him back if he gets a few coils in) resist earthquake and stone edge, meaning team support isn't that difficult. He doesn't have a lot, but he has what he needs.bad offensive movepool
Besides Kyurem, 600 is the highest BST in OU and is higher than every non [psuedo] legendary there is. How is that terrible?terrible BST
weak to ice, dragon, and fairy, 3 common offensive types, but if you had read the thread, we had already discussed how he can beat salamence, dragonite*, garchomp, kyurem, and every fairy/ice type 1 on 1 almost every single time. That basically leaves Noivern, Hydreigon, lati@s, and floating ice beams that can really hurt him.very bad typing
I think I've made it clear that he can hold his own and then some in OU, and there's really no reason he should end up any lower imo. Yes he has checks, but if he didn't he'd be banned to uber. I realize you were just pointing out some flaws in this pokemon, but would you please do some more research before making a statement like putting this guy in UU. He's a fantastic physical tank, and an even better late game cleaner. And most importantly, he's pretty easy to fit onto a team. I'd say that zygarde's only real negative attribute is that he's banned from vgc (land's wrath woulda been awesome in season 2).UU at best.
/sighOnly if it had Shed Skin it would be OU. A supposed slow boosting attacker with a 4x weakness and no recovery of either hp or status? Siriusly?
Isn't that kind of like Gyarados?Only if it had Shed Skin it would be OU. A supposed slow boosting attacker with a 4x weakness and no recovery of either hp or status? Siriusly?
Gyarados has dual stabs that nothing is immune to, Taunt, an immunity, and two useful abilities. Nor is there an electric type priority.Isn't that kind of like Gyarados?
Gyarados has dual stabs that nothing is immune to, Taunt, an immunity, and two useful abilities. Nor is there an electric type priority.
Let's see the max Mamoswine, the best Ice Shard User on OU, can do to Zygarde:Gyarados has dual stabs that nothing is immune to, Taunt, an immunity, and two useful abilities. Nor is there an electric type priority.
We can easily state what Gyarados has over Zygarde or what Zygarde has over Gyarados, but they both are set-up sweepers that have no reliable form of recovery or status healing and 4x weakness. Yet... Gyarados has been in OU for a while and may stay in OU for this new generation.Gyarados has dual stabs that nothing is immune to, Taunt, an immunity, and two useful abilities. Nor is there an electric type priority.
Also Gyara is weak to rocks, which hurts his bulk substantially.
- Gyarados has to use Bounce as a secondary STAB, which is inaccurate and takes a charge up turn.
- Why would you put Taunt on a "boosting sweeper"?
- Zygarde also has an immunity, to electric.
- Zygarde has ESpeed, which has higher priority than Ice Shard.
1.Gyarados has much higher attack, is much more unpredictable with sub/taunt/mega, and can actually afford to run only 2 attacks without losing too much coverage.Let's see the max Mamoswine, the best Ice Shard User on OU, can do to Zygarde:
252+ Atk Choice Band Mamoswine Ice Shard vs. +1 252 HP / 0 Def Zygarde: 244-292 (58 - 69.5%)
I'm talking about the Coil set, so please, use the same set I'm using for calculations. You reduced Zygarde ev's in attack to 4 (very stupid) and also his HP evs to 4. Also, as I said, you're going to use Mamoswine as a switch-in or revenge killer, because you're never going to switch-in Zygarde into Mamoswine.+1 4 Atk Zygarde Earthquake vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mamoswine: 195-229 (54.01 - 63.43%)
+1 4 Atk Zygarde Extremespeed vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mamoswine: 104-123 (28.8 - 34.07%)
252 Atk Life Orb Mamoswine Ice Shard vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Zygarde: 296-348 (82.68 - 97.2%)
I myself have swept in OU with Zygarde many times, and still I think the only reason why some consider it good is that there isnt anything else to compare it to.We can easily state what Gyarados has over Zygarde or what Zygarde has over Gyarados, but they both are set-up sweepers that have no reliable form of recovery or status healing and 4x weakness. Yet... Gyarados has been in OU for a while and may stay in OU for this new generation.
My fault. If you run 252HP/252Atk, EQ+Espeed 2hkos, but then Mamoswine outspeeds and uses Icicle Crash instead.I'm talking about the Coil set, so please, use the same set I'm using for calculations. You reduced Zygarde ev's in attack to 4 (very stupid) and also his HP evs to 4. Also, as I said, you're going to use Mamoswine as a switch-in or revenge killer, because you're never going to switch-in Zygarde into Mamoswine.
Gyarados may have higher atk, but relies on lower bp moves, and typically doesn't get dragon dances off as easily as Zygarde gets coils (he can get 2 on almost any physical attacker without taking much damage), and HP/Atk investment with Adamant is really all he needs (Def and Spe are more for specialized sets which I wouldn't suggest for OU). And if I saw a mamoswine in team preview, I'd make sure I switched in first with an easy mark, get a coil or two (even if mamo switches in, I've got +1 atk and +1 def, more than enough to survive an ice shard) and KO with an earthquake followed by Extremespeed.1.Gyarados has much higher attack, is much more unpredictable with sub/taunt/mega, and can actually afford to run only 2 attacks without losing too much coverage.
2.Gyarados forces out and sets up on most EQ users without roar(gliscor for example), while most electric types that even are OU shit on zygarde with another move.
3.GYarados can afford to run max speed/attack which fills a completely different role than Z. Some of you are assuming that Zygarde runs both coil and DD and has 1020 EV points.
+1 4 Atk Zygarde Earthquake vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mamoswine: 195-229 (54.01 - 63.43%)
+1 4 Atk Zygarde Extremespeed vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mamoswine: 104-123 (28.8 - 34.07%)
252 Atk Life Orb Mamoswine Ice Shard vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Zygarde: 296-348 (82.68 - 97.2%)
you can't try to play it like the four you mentioned, otherwise you'll run into the problems you've mentioned. Its too fast to play solely as a tank, not strong or fast enough to purely sweep, to specially weak to wall, so what can it do? It can work outside of the annoying molds that have sprung up over the past few gens. He is fast enough, strong enough, and bulky enough to fill the role you need him to play, and for that reason I think he'll be popular among the more versatile players in the gameI myself have swept in OU with Zygarde many times, and still I think the only reason why some consider it good is that there isnt anything else to compare it to.
Its stats are in between Gyarados/Salamence and Conkeldurr/Reuniclus all of thich are OU, but has neither the raw power of the former group or the longevity of the latter, which severely undermines its general usefulness.