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VGC '12 Northeast Regional - Philadelphia, PA - Won by JiveTime & KeepBayleefing!
- Thread starter Cybertron
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Hey just to be clear, I have heard that position is also determined by resistance, what is that? Is that like if the person you lose to loses, it goes down? Can someone explain that to me just so I know what to expect if I do lose
Basically, in the end, people who have the same record (eg. 5-1, 5-2, 4-3, etc.) will have their placing determined by their opponents' win percentage. This means your final standing is based off how well your opponents do. This is calculated by taking the total number of games all your opponents win over all the games they play. Let me do a quick example involving a 3 round tournament.
You win the 1st round. You are now 1-0, while your opponent is 0-1.
You win the 2nd round. You are now 2-0, while the person you just beat is 1-1. The person you played round 1 also lost their 2nd match, so they are 0-2.
You lose the 3rd round. You are now 2-1, while the person you just beat is 3-0. The person you played round 1 won their 3rd match, so they are 1-2. The person you played round 2 lost their 3rd match, so they are also 1-2.
After these three rounds, the final standings are calculated. Generally, there are exactly x number of swiss rounds so that there is one x-0 (undefeated) at the end, 3-5 x-1's (meaning they lost one game), and so on. However, on some rare occasions, an x-2 makes it in. Most of the time though, you'll have to either go undefeated or lose one match. For Seniors, this is generally 5-6 rounds, though it was 8 back in 2011.
Anyway, back to the whole "resistance" thing, we can now calculate your resistance. Your opponents finished 3-0, 1-2, 1-2. A total of 9 games were played throughout all three opponents (3 games each). They won a total of 5 games (3+1+1), meaning they won 5/9 games in total. This means your resistance would be 55.55%. Let's say someone else who finished 2-1 played two of the same opponents you did, the 3-0 and 1-2, but also played a 2-1. This means their opponent has won 6/9 games, meaning their resistance would be 66.66%. Overall, they will have a higher tiebreaker than you and place higher.
I hope this explains it well, I know it's a bit confusing but it all comes together. Basically, at Regionals, you can only lose 1 game if you want to finish in the top 4. Your tiebreakers will be higher if you play better people. Normally, the 2 people who are undefeated at the last round will finish 1st and 2nd, but sometimes the one who loses plays bad people and finishes 3rd or even 4th. This happened to makiri at his Regionals. Once we get to Nationals where there is a Top Cut, it works a bit differently as Top Cut is pretty much a separate tournament from the swiss rounds, with seeding and players determining how the brackets work.
You win the 1st round. You are now 1-0, while your opponent is 0-1.
You win the 2nd round. You are now 2-0, while the person you just beat is 1-1. The person you played round 1 also lost their 2nd match, so they are 0-2.
You lose the 3rd round. You are now 2-1, while the person you just beat is 3-0. The person you played round 1 won their 3rd match, so they are 1-2. The person you played round 2 lost their 3rd match, so they are also 1-2.
After these three rounds, the final standings are calculated. Generally, there are exactly x number of swiss rounds so that there is one x-0 (undefeated) at the end, 3-5 x-1's (meaning they lost one game), and so on. However, on some rare occasions, an x-2 makes it in. Most of the time though, you'll have to either go undefeated or lose one match. For Seniors, this is generally 5-6 rounds, though it was 8 back in 2011.
Anyway, back to the whole "resistance" thing, we can now calculate your resistance. Your opponents finished 3-0, 1-2, 1-2. A total of 9 games were played throughout all three opponents (3 games each). They won a total of 5 games (3+1+1), meaning they won 5/9 games in total. This means your resistance would be 55.55%. Let's say someone else who finished 2-1 played two of the same opponents you did, the 3-0 and 1-2, but also played a 2-1. This means their opponent has won 6/9 games, meaning their resistance would be 66.66%. Overall, they will have a higher tiebreaker than you and place higher.
I hope this explains it well, I know it's a bit confusing but it all comes together. Basically, at Regionals, you can only lose 1 game if you want to finish in the top 4. Your tiebreakers will be higher if you play better people. Normally, the 2 people who are undefeated at the last round will finish 1st and 2nd, but sometimes the one who loses plays bad people and finishes 3rd or even 4th. This happened to makiri at his Regionals. Once we get to Nationals where there is a Top Cut, it works a bit differently as Top Cut is pretty much a separate tournament from the swiss rounds, with seeding and players determining how the brackets work.
For the Swiss portion of tournaments, the first tiebreaker for people with the same number of wins is Opponent's Win percentage. It's not a perfectly straightforward calculation but the general idea is the more the players your faced win, the higher this is. If two players are still tied after this, Opponent's Opponent's Win percentage is used. This value is based off how many wins the players all your opponents faced have. The higher this is the better. If two players are still tied, a head to head tiebreaker is used.
You can find the details here:
http://assets24.pokemon.com/assets/...1/Pokemon_Tournament_Operation_Procedures.pdf
Yup, makes perfect sense. Thanks Aaron!
A bit mad that only top four are invited now, I am really pressed for time right now so I need to figure out and finish a team stat!
there are no invites nationals is open to everyone this year.
top 4 get money/trip
Well, I sort of have to depend on my friend, I don't know how to RNG and my wifi is not working.
Cool, now I can convince my parents to take us there lol
Well considering I picked up VGC 2011 a month before it started and got my team a week before Regionals, I think you'll be fine. I can't stress this enough to everyone, but the community here is really incredible and you can easily get a team as long as you don't annoy the members constantly. Try to fix that WiFi though :P
I will try, but we might need to get a new router, but I am not all that worried considering my friend won the VA regionals
Are you talking about Mychael B.?(aka the guy who beat me in the finals at VA)
This. I am just about driven insane when people ask for Pokemon that a) I don't have it yet will be extremely hard to get(ie. Shiny Thundurus or Gen 4 Pokemon that I don't know how to RNG) b) they never know what they want. I've had a good 10 people ask me so far for Shiny Thundurus and I give you the one I have, and almost every single one complains about it not being the right nature and not the right HP. Guys I'm sick of giving out my Pokemon to people who don't even regard what I say of have described about the Pokemon in my thread. And if collecting FREE Pokemon from me isn't enough, do you really not have the simple common sense or knowledge to look up how to EV train. Or even worse, you ask me for EV spreads for them from me. I'm not no spectacular VGC player. Some say I suck, but that isn't the point. We have wonderful Smogon Analysis for lots of Pokemon already written up or in process of being written up. We also have wonderful players who take their precious time to take on the duty of being a Tutor for Battling 202 which Muffinhead so kindly runs.
One last thing before I go, STOP COPYING BABBYTRON'S(Actually JRank's) TEAM. He plays Juniors and did well because pretty much anyone with RNGed Pokemon in Juniors will win a Regional. Seniors and Masters aren't as easy to get by. A lot of teams eat rain for breakfast if you're trying to use it because of the simple strategy unless you know what you're doing and know how to play without being predictable.
There is more I could say, but I hope I got my point across with this. Please, Please, Please, Please don't be like this to the people giving you FREE Pokemon. We work hard to supply these Pokemon and a lot of you think we pull them out of magical pixie dust. Shiny Thundurus is probably one of the worst things I can think of to RNG for myself. Don't just ask for these Pokemon like it's nothing, because for some of us, we work hard to get our Pokemon and nothing angers me more than people just casually messaging me for free Pokemon not knowing what they want or what I have.
Okay bye for now. Please don't be stupid when asking for Pokemon. And at LEAST test out different teams on Skarmbliss, other than Babbytron's team, so you know EXACTLY what you want. K Bye
While we are on a more serious note, I'd just like to kindly remember all the newer members to maybe lurk around a bit more before posting. There are a lot of new people to the Smogon community, and although the VGC portion is very friendly and kind, you don't want to piss anyone off. What I mean is, don't constantly VM people with random bullshit, or bother them to rate your team or battle you. I love helping the Pokemon community and giving back, but also understand that I don't always have time to battle you, rate your team, etc. Please don't bother people constantly about teams. Like Biosci said, if you're going to ask people for Pokemon, ask when you are sure you have a team with those Pokemon. Don't be so demanding, realize that they are fitting you into their schedule. I'm always as polite as possible, saying "thank you so much" and "I really appreciate it" and "take your time!" anytime I am given Pokemon. I make sure they get their credit due in my warstories. I don't think some of you realize how much work and effort goes into RNGing Pokemon. Like Biosci said, RNGing a flawless SHINY Thundurus is incredibly difficult. One of the rudest things you can do is ask for Pokemon and end up not using it. Also, please please please type with proper grammar and spelling. It only makes you look smarter. I'm sorry for posting this mini-rant but it's honestly been bothering me for a while.
I also hate getting shit like "CAN I JOIN TEAM SENIORS??" For those that don't know, "Team" Seniors is just a group of really close friends that happen to be pretty kick ass at Pokemon as well, with several Regional/National champs. We're not a team. We don't build teams together or practice extensively together. We're just a group of mature and awesome (at least in my opinion) Seniors who like to have fun. There's no "application" or anything to get in. Just hang out with us and give us a good impression at VGCs. (basically we're the toddler mighty ducks or ducks JR. maybe even ducks SR.)
On another note, I think it's pretty funny how almost Senior that I have played going to this Regional is running a rain team. Please, I love mirror matches! 9.9 Rain teams aren't easy to use in Seniors/Masters, especially such basic ones like the one my brother used to win Regionals. JRank's Regional team included elements from my brother's team as well as other stuff. When people ask me to rate their team and I see that it's almost an exact copy of my brother's team, what the hell am I supposed to say? I really don't want to single people out but take a look at this and this. Obviously, a standard rain team isn't anyone's team per say, but a lot of people are pairing standard rain teams with my brother's team. Understandable, but a standard team can be used by anyone and it shouldn't be tied to anyone's name. But if you take a look at those two RMT's, they are literally carbon copies of our rain team. From the nature, item, and EV down to every single move. No, changing Rain Dance to Grass Knot (which is a terrible change, btw) does not make it your own team. The team is near perfect IMO. It's just how well you can play with it. Once again, I'm really sorry for pointing out threads and users, but this has been on my mind for a long time and it seriously bothers me.
I hope I'm not giving the wrong impression of myself and the community because we're certainly not like this. I've had the pleasure of meeting so many people from Smogon because of VGC and made some of my best friends today from it. However, I really think this post was necessary in order for those who are new to Smogon to understand the members of this community a bit more. We're obviously very competitive, but friendly as well. However, there's a certain boundary between asking people for Pokemon or battles and pissing the hell out of them. Watch that line please!
don't worry, i won't be mean or hostile or anything like this at all IRL at Philly/Nationals/Worlds. just a caution to everyone, old ane new.
also 8 people tournaments on skarmbliss mean absolutely nothing. neither does beating someone once... or twice.. or four times...
I also hate getting shit like "CAN I JOIN TEAM SENIORS??" For those that don't know, "Team" Seniors is just a group of really close friends that happen to be pretty kick ass at Pokemon as well, with several Regional/National champs. We're not a team. We don't build teams together or practice extensively together. We're just a group of mature and awesome (at least in my opinion) Seniors who like to have fun. There's no "application" or anything to get in. Just hang out with us and give us a good impression at VGCs. (basically we're the toddler mighty ducks or ducks JR. maybe even ducks SR.)
On another note, I think it's pretty funny how almost Senior that I have played going to this Regional is running a rain team. Please, I love mirror matches! 9.9 Rain teams aren't easy to use in Seniors/Masters, especially such basic ones like the one my brother used to win Regionals. JRank's Regional team included elements from my brother's team as well as other stuff. When people ask me to rate their team and I see that it's almost an exact copy of my brother's team, what the hell am I supposed to say? I really don't want to single people out but take a look at this and this. Obviously, a standard rain team isn't anyone's team per say, but a lot of people are pairing standard rain teams with my brother's team. Understandable, but a standard team can be used by anyone and it shouldn't be tied to anyone's name. But if you take a look at those two RMT's, they are literally carbon copies of our rain team. From the nature, item, and EV down to every single move. No, changing Rain Dance to Grass Knot (which is a terrible change, btw) does not make it your own team. The team is near perfect IMO. It's just how well you can play with it. Once again, I'm really sorry for pointing out threads and users, but this has been on my mind for a long time and it seriously bothers me.
I hope I'm not giving the wrong impression of myself and the community because we're certainly not like this. I've had the pleasure of meeting so many people from Smogon because of VGC and made some of my best friends today from it. However, I really think this post was necessary in order for those who are new to Smogon to understand the members of this community a bit more. We're obviously very competitive, but friendly as well. However, there's a certain boundary between asking people for Pokemon or battles and pissing the hell out of them. Watch that line please!
don't worry, i won't be mean or hostile or anything like this at all IRL at Philly/Nationals/Worlds. just a caution to everyone, old ane new.
also 8 people tournaments on skarmbliss mean absolutely nothing. neither does beating someone once... or twice.. or four times...
I'm glad I'm not that good so no one asks me for team help. :D
Cassie
giant claw
Echoing Biosci. Also know that we do have things other than Pokemon trades to worry about, so if you're trying to get things before a certain deadline it'd be nice to get a heads up about it. I've been out for the last week because of finals, and I had gotten some PMs nagging me about when I could trade/when I'd finish. It's 3 months before regionals, you shouldn't be in such a hurry to get the Pokemon. I love helping the community out, but being pestered constantly is pretty inconsiderate. If you ask for things that need Ev'd or I have to RNG, I'm not going to be done right away. RNG, especially with roamers/4th gen, takes time that we don't always have. One more thing, it's incredibly annoying when I'm asked if my Pokemon are hacked so please don't do it.
Attending Masters with this kid and YoungVet.
Maybe I won't pull such a disgraceful record this time.
drcossack
I'm everywhere, you ain't never there
Agreeing with Cybertron/Biosci/Cassie here. I do not hesitate to ask if there's a pokemon I need/want, and I am certainly in no rush to get them (if it's something that has to be RNG'd.)
However, I do so after testing out pokemon, and if one doesn't work out/I want to focus on not being so weak to (insert random move/type here), I look for a replacement (though I also check trade threads to see if anyone has what I'm looking for.)
I have pokemon from a variety of people - mattj, biosci, cassie, andrea, omegadonut, to name a few. Some were CP's/BP's I asked for, some are from their trade threads, but I am more than happy to clone them for people, should they ask (provided I am allowed to distribute.) I am, of course, naturally slightly hesitant to do so for anyone who will be attending Philly, but for anyone attending who wants to ask me, don't let that stop you.
That said. Biosci, PM headed your way.
However, I do so after testing out pokemon, and if one doesn't work out/I want to focus on not being so weak to (insert random move/type here), I look for a replacement (though I also check trade threads to see if anyone has what I'm looking for.)
I have pokemon from a variety of people - mattj, biosci, cassie, andrea, omegadonut, to name a few. Some were CP's/BP's I asked for, some are from their trade threads, but I am more than happy to clone them for people, should they ask (provided I am allowed to distribute.) I am, of course, naturally slightly hesitant to do so for anyone who will be attending Philly, but for anyone attending who wants to ask me, don't let that stop you.
That said. Biosci, PM headed your way.
Long post, sorry
Oh yeah Cybertron about the thread I posted with the rain team.
I not really using that team at Regionals. Well, I might use one pokemon from that team but no more. The team was just something that I just felt like posting.
My real team is nothing related to that. Just wanted to say that. Also, I'm not mad about you pointing me out. I'm actually happy about that.
O.o
Well, just wanted to say good luck to everyone going to the NE Regional, have some relatives going (I'm from NY, but i live in ATL now)
and yea, RNGing is very hard, don't just ask for a Shiny Zapdos because you want one
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