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Dream World CCAT (Signups for laddering!)
- Thread starter Harsha
- Start date
I only chose Gyro Ball to act as a fool-proof against DD Mence and Nite with EQ since they would walk all over Jirachi, but Earthquake could help against Chandelure. 2HKOing Chandelure is pretty nice, since you are almost guaranteed to win 1-on-1 against it if you keep Sturdy intact; you can thus pull off a Rapid Spin if Chandelure is their only spinblocker. The problem is that EQ is a simply dreadful mono-attacking option, and Forry's job is usually done once it sets up SR and 1 / 2 layers of Spikes, so it will appreciate having Gyro Ball in most cases to deal some damage to fast threats like Mienshao, or Ground-types like Dugtrio. I will test this team out a bit more, though, to see which is better.
EDIT - NO, Just no. After some testing on PO [and a few crashes with my shitty pc], I have to conclude that Gyro Ball is just too useful in taking out stuff late-game if you happen to have Forry alive. EQ does almost nothing other than 2HKOing Chandelure. I would just run Shed Shell to deal with Chandelure.
Harsha, when you read this post, please remove that list of nominees you still have in the OP. We have already nominated and chosen Meloetta, so the OP is slightly confusing.
I'd like to make a change to Shrang's set to further complement this team - replace HP Ice with Work Up. On a rain team, Ice is already well available in the form of Ice Beam, and with a Work Up under it's belt Meloetta 2HKO's Gliscor with Relic Song, counting the switch in forms. Work Up will also increase Thunder's power to riduckulous levels, and buff CC as well. And I'd also like to question Expert Belt's viability over...say, LO or Leftovers.
I wanted to stay away from Rain, mainly since it's such an overplayed strategy, but it seems that democracy and popular opinion will rule. I nominate Rain Offense because it will become OP and nominate the following Pokes as well:
Donphan @ Custap Berry
Sturdy
252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def Adamant
-Stealth Rock
-Earthquake
-Ice Shard
-Head Smash
Yay, how I LOVE Custap Berry! Adamant fully attacking Donphan with base attack of 120 is nothing to be laughing at. Sturdy guarantees a layer of Stealth Rocks, while Custap allows it to get an easy revenge against Chandelure, etc. Custap also allows you to abuse a priority Head Smash fully, since you'll be dying next turn anyways. Ice Shard hits hard with priority, and allows you to get some KO's against dragons and whatnot. Altogether, Donphan is a great rocks-setter that can immediately turn into an offensive beast.
Starmie @ Life Orb
Natural Cure
252 SpA / 252 Spe Timid
-Rapid Spin
-Hydro Pump
-Thunder
-Ice Beam
Why is Starmie in the rain so scary? Maybe it's the blazing 115 Speed that outruns EVERYTHING important in the tier, including Raikou, bane of Rain teams. Maybe it's the double STABed Hydro Pump or the 100% acc Thunder, all boosted with Life Orb on a 100 base special attack. Maybe its because Starmie is the fastest rapid spinner in the metagame, and can absorb and heal statuses with Natural Cure. Maybe. Just maybe.
Nominate Rain Offense with Politoed (Unmentioned but...obvious), Offensive Donphan and RS Starmie.
I wanted to stay away from Rain, mainly since it's such an overplayed strategy, but it seems that democracy and popular opinion will rule. I nominate Rain Offense because it will become OP and nominate the following Pokes as well:
Donphan @ Custap Berry
Sturdy
252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def Adamant
-Stealth Rock
-Earthquake
-Ice Shard
-Head Smash
Yay, how I LOVE Custap Berry! Adamant fully attacking Donphan with base attack of 120 is nothing to be laughing at. Sturdy guarantees a layer of Stealth Rocks, while Custap allows it to get an easy revenge against Chandelure, etc. Custap also allows you to abuse a priority Head Smash fully, since you'll be dying next turn anyways. Ice Shard hits hard with priority, and allows you to get some KO's against dragons and whatnot. Altogether, Donphan is a great rocks-setter that can immediately turn into an offensive beast.
Starmie @ Life Orb
Natural Cure
252 SpA / 252 Spe Timid
-Rapid Spin
-Hydro Pump
-Thunder
-Ice Beam
Why is Starmie in the rain so scary? Maybe it's the blazing 115 Speed that outruns EVERYTHING important in the tier, including Raikou, bane of Rain teams. Maybe it's the double STABed Hydro Pump or the 100% acc Thunder, all boosted with Life Orb on a 100 base special attack. Maybe its because Starmie is the fastest rapid spinner in the metagame, and can absorb and heal statuses with Natural Cure. Maybe. Just maybe.
Nominate Rain Offense with Politoed (Unmentioned but...obvious), Offensive Donphan and RS Starmie.
....
imo, Work Up > HP Ice. I guess it wouldnt make THAT big of a difference, but I find it hard to see any use of HP Ice ESPECIALLY if its a Rain Team.
imo, Work Up > HP Ice. I guess it wouldnt make THAT big of a difference, but I find it hard to see any use of HP Ice ESPECIALLY if its a Rain Team.
HP Ice would be pretty useful as it would make Meloetta one less team member walled by general annoyances to rain teams such as Celebi and various dagons which can easily switch into rain boosted water attacks and Thunders from teammates.
However, if we get teammates that can make up for the lost coverage, I guess we could adjust Melo's moveset. Moveset changes should be discussed in a later phase though, prefferably when we have all out team members figured out so we can look at what threats need to be hit.
However, if we get teammates that can make up for the lost coverage, I guess we could adjust Melo's moveset. Moveset changes should be discussed in a later phase though, prefferably when we have all out team members figured out so we can look at what threats need to be hit.
Yes, I agree.
Now, I believe that a Breloom could be useful on our team because it provides a check to sand sweepers (not Garchomp, but the others) and it does well in rain. Needless to say, I'm nominating TechniLoom with Bullet Seed / Mach Punch / Drain Punch / Swords Dance @ Life Orb. One of the deadliest sweepers out there imo.
Now, I believe that a Breloom could be useful on our team because it provides a check to sand sweepers (not Garchomp, but the others) and it does well in rain. Needless to say, I'm nominating TechniLoom with Bullet Seed / Mach Punch / Drain Punch / Swords Dance @ Life Orb. One of the deadliest sweepers out there imo.
Hey guys, don't forget to keep nominating!! Nominations for the type of team will be closed on Friday at 12:00 PM EST, and it looks like a majority of us are favoring rain offense but we'll see. Now the teammates will be voted upon at that point and we are going to take the nominated teammates into heavy consideration and test the team on the ladder. Anyone willing to help me out here (i.e. ladder with the team with me) can be my guest!
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In other words, get those nominations in before it's too late!
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In other words, get those nominations in before it's too late!
Ok since nobody is going to post in here (trust me I've tried to get people to -_-) I'm gonna go ahead and announce that we'll be dealing with rain offense. Yes, rain offense. I hope you all know what that means! We're going to start nominating Politoed sets. Also, feel free to discuss the pros and cons of each set and discuss possible partners for the team. The partners that were nominated will still be taken into account.
Politoed @ Choice Scarf
Trait: Drizzle
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature (+Spe, -Atk)
- Hydro Pump
- Ice Beam
- Focus Blast / Hidden Power Grass
- Perish Song
The reason behind ScarfToed's nomination is the following. For one, it can reliably check Excadrill. While I am not the biggest fan of ScarfToed (3 attacks Politoed all the way!), I am convinced that this is the set that will do best in this metagame dominated by Speed. Hydro Pump, Ice Beam, and Focus Blast / HP Grass are all great coverage, while Perish Song is for phazing and ruining late-game sweepers.
Politoed @ Choice Scarf
Trait: Drizzle
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature (+Spe, -Atk)
- Hydro Pump
- Ice Beam
- Focus Blast / Hidden Power Grass
- Perish Song
The reason behind ScarfToed's nomination is the following. For one, it can reliably check Excadrill. While I am not the biggest fan of ScarfToed (3 attacks Politoed all the way!), I am convinced that this is the set that will do best in this metagame dominated by Speed. Hydro Pump, Ice Beam, and Focus Blast / HP Grass are all great coverage, while Perish Song is for phazing and ruining late-game sweepers.
Sayonara
don't forget
Female |
Ability: Drizzle
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 Def
Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
~ Scald
~ Perish Song
~ Toxic / Ice Beam
~ Protect
I think that defensive Politoed can be of use, actually. It checks Excadrill quite well and can take hits from the likes of Tyranitar and Blaziken. In addition, it can also spread poison with Toxic against troublesome sweepers such as Dragonite to ease Meloetta's sweep. Scald does a decent amount of damage for a defensively-oriented Pokemon, as it is boosted by Rain's presence. It also has a chance of burning opponents, which can come in handy. Perish Song screws with Baton Pass teams, and prevents the team from being ruined by them. Toxic is for toxic-stalling, but Ice Beam is an option to hit Dragons. Protect lets you scout, as well as rack up Toxic damage inflicted to the opponent.
Politoed @ Salac Berry
Trait: Drizzle
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spd
IVs: 30 HP
Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Substitute
- Belly Drum
- Waterfall
- Return / Earthquake / Brick Break
YEAH! This is obviously the best Politoed set, this can get to +6 / +1 when well-played, and then this destroys. Rain-boosted, STAB Waterfalls from 996 Attack are gonna hurt, for example Waterfall OHKOes even physically defensive Skarmory, and even resists such as Gyarados. On the other hand, this thing is tough to revenge kill due to the Speed boost from Salac Berry, which makes it faster than speed demons such as Raikou, Starmie, and Tornadus. The last slot is for coverage, Return provides the best coverage in general, but it lets Jellicent wall you, so Earthquake is also an option. Finally, Brick Break hits Ferrothorn.
someone really likes pinch berries! :d
hmm, I really want to try Belly Drum Toed out actually, I'll test it soon. One thing that could be problematic is priority, though lots of sweepers have problems with that. I never realized that Politoed at +1 outspeeds Raikou, that's interesting! It even bests Dugtrio!
hmm, I really want to try Belly Drum Toed out actually, I'll test it soon. One thing that could be problematic is priority, though lots of sweepers have problems with that. I never realized that Politoed at +1 outspeeds Raikou, that's interesting! It even bests Dugtrio!
+1 Politoed is still outsped by pretty much every Choice Scarf Pokemon, such as Rotom-W and Landorus. Also, I'm not sure you should go with Return on that set. It makes it so that Jellicent is immune to all of your attacks and you have to use Waterfall on Ferrothorn to take it out, which will kill Politoed if said Ferrothorn is holding a Rocky Helmet.
Also, resisted Waterfall will hit nearly as hard as Return, so you should really be focused on Pokemon that are immune to Water-attacks. Earthquake hits both Jellicent and Toxicroak harder, while only giving you a slightly harder time against Bulky Grass-types and Gyarados.
Overall, I don't really see this Politoed sweeping without an immense amount of support, at which point you'd be better off going with Manaphy or Keldeo.
Also, resisted Waterfall will hit nearly as hard as Return, so you should really be focused on Pokemon that are immune to Water-attacks. Earthquake hits both Jellicent and Toxicroak harder, while only giving you a slightly harder time against Bulky Grass-types and Gyarados.
Overall, I don't really see this Politoed sweeping without an immense amount of support, at which point you'd be better off going with Manaphy or Keldeo.
Yes, I agree with this. Politoed is definitely a Pokemon which is supposed to play with what the team needs instead of a focus. It's kind of like what I say about Palkia in the Ubers CCAT. Put him there, but decide the set later according to what the team needs.
Since this thread has been lacking activity lately, I'll nominate something.
Let's take a look at what bothers our Meloetta set (Relic Song / Close Combat / Thunder / Hidden Power Ice @ Expert Belt):
- Jirachi
- Volcarona
- Reuniclus
- Amoonguss
- Metagross
- Latias
Now what can deal with these Pokemon? I think for the nominations now, we either need Pokemon that can switch into these Pokemon easily and force them out, or lure them in and take them out.
I have several nominations. The first is the following:
Latios @ Choice Specs
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Draco Meteor
- Dragon Pulse
- Surf
- Trick
Specs Latios is one of the best Pokemon on rain offense in my opinion. Draco Meteor and Surf provide perfect coverage, and both are 1.5x boosted, either by STAB or by rain. Draco Meteor can rip holes in teams, while Surf takes care of resists such as Genesect, KOing with the rain boost. Lategame, either Dragon Pulse or Surf can take out the remainings of a team, depending on the situation. Both have a solid 90 base power, perfect accuracy, and good neutral coverage. Trick is in the last slot, as Latios can lure in several threatening Pokemon for Meloetta and Trick them, such as Jirachi and Metagross. That way, they are crippled and easily set up on. Other than that, rain-boosted Surf will leave a dent in them, as Metagross takes about 70 - 80%, while Jirachi takes about 45%. Reuniclus and Amoonguss are outsped, walled (though beware of double powder from the latter), and KOed with Draco Meteor or crippled with Trick. Latias can be taken down if Latios wins the speedtie, or if Latias is unboosted in which case Dragon Pulse only does about 70%.
Jynx @ Leftovers
Trait: Dry Skin
EVs: 8 HP / 248 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Nasty Plot
- Ice Beam
- Substitute
- Lovely Kiss
Jynx is a cool and underrated Pokemon in rain offense teams. Dry Skin is a great ability, and with it and Leftovers Jynx recovers 18.75% of its health every turn. This means that it only loses 6.25% when using Substitute, and it can make 12 Substitutes from full health. Lovely Kiss and Nasty Plot are great moves, with the former being able to completely cripple an opposing Pokemon, making it unable to do anything unless it stays in for several turns in a row. The latter doubles Jynx's already respectable Special Attack stat, and if Jynx has a Substitute up as well as a Nasty Plot, Ice Beam is gonna hurt. This can be accomplished by playing Lovely Kiss well, and preferably bringing Jynx in on a wall that can't hurt it, or a Choiced Water- or Ice-type attack from the likes of Politoed. Ice is a good mono-attacking type, and really only Heatran and Tyranitar easily stop this set. Now, what does this Pokemon do for the team besides being generally awesome? First off, Reuniclus, Amoonguss, and Latias are taken care of by this Pokemon. Reuniclus only 3HKOes Jynx with Focus Blast, so Jynx can Nasty Plot up and do 90% to Reuniclus with Ice Beam, KOing with a bit of prior damage, or putting it to sleep with Lovely Kiss. Amoonguss does about 30% with Giga Drain, which after recovering is only about 10 - 15% a turn. Substitute blocks Spore, and Ice Beam KOes. Latias doesn't 2HKO with Dragon Pulse, and +2 Ice Beam always OHKOes Latias, or Jynx can just put it to sleep with Lovely Kiss. Jirachi, Volcarona, and Metagross on the other hand all like to switch in on Jynx, but Lovely Kiss will cripple them, leaving them easier to handle for Meloetta.
Let's take a look at what bothers our Meloetta set (Relic Song / Close Combat / Thunder / Hidden Power Ice @ Expert Belt):
- Jirachi
- Volcarona
- Reuniclus
- Amoonguss
- Metagross
- Latias
Now what can deal with these Pokemon? I think for the nominations now, we either need Pokemon that can switch into these Pokemon easily and force them out, or lure them in and take them out.
I have several nominations. The first is the following:
Latios @ Choice Specs
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Draco Meteor
- Dragon Pulse
- Surf
- Trick
Specs Latios is one of the best Pokemon on rain offense in my opinion. Draco Meteor and Surf provide perfect coverage, and both are 1.5x boosted, either by STAB or by rain. Draco Meteor can rip holes in teams, while Surf takes care of resists such as Genesect, KOing with the rain boost. Lategame, either Dragon Pulse or Surf can take out the remainings of a team, depending on the situation. Both have a solid 90 base power, perfect accuracy, and good neutral coverage. Trick is in the last slot, as Latios can lure in several threatening Pokemon for Meloetta and Trick them, such as Jirachi and Metagross. That way, they are crippled and easily set up on. Other than that, rain-boosted Surf will leave a dent in them, as Metagross takes about 70 - 80%, while Jirachi takes about 45%. Reuniclus and Amoonguss are outsped, walled (though beware of double powder from the latter), and KOed with Draco Meteor or crippled with Trick. Latias can be taken down if Latios wins the speedtie, or if Latias is unboosted in which case Dragon Pulse only does about 70%.
Jynx @ Leftovers
Trait: Dry Skin
EVs: 8 HP / 248 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Nasty Plot
- Ice Beam
- Substitute
- Lovely Kiss
Jynx is a cool and underrated Pokemon in rain offense teams. Dry Skin is a great ability, and with it and Leftovers Jynx recovers 18.75% of its health every turn. This means that it only loses 6.25% when using Substitute, and it can make 12 Substitutes from full health. Lovely Kiss and Nasty Plot are great moves, with the former being able to completely cripple an opposing Pokemon, making it unable to do anything unless it stays in for several turns in a row. The latter doubles Jynx's already respectable Special Attack stat, and if Jynx has a Substitute up as well as a Nasty Plot, Ice Beam is gonna hurt. This can be accomplished by playing Lovely Kiss well, and preferably bringing Jynx in on a wall that can't hurt it, or a Choiced Water- or Ice-type attack from the likes of Politoed. Ice is a good mono-attacking type, and really only Heatran and Tyranitar easily stop this set. Now, what does this Pokemon do for the team besides being generally awesome? First off, Reuniclus, Amoonguss, and Latias are taken care of by this Pokemon. Reuniclus only 3HKOes Jynx with Focus Blast, so Jynx can Nasty Plot up and do 90% to Reuniclus with Ice Beam, KOing with a bit of prior damage, or putting it to sleep with Lovely Kiss. Amoonguss does about 30% with Giga Drain, which after recovering is only about 10 - 15% a turn. Substitute blocks Spore, and Ice Beam KOes. Latias doesn't 2HKO with Dragon Pulse, and +2 Ice Beam always OHKOes Latias, or Jynx can just put it to sleep with Lovely Kiss. Jirachi, Volcarona, and Metagross on the other hand all like to switch in on Jynx, but Lovely Kiss will cripple them, leaving them easier to handle for Meloetta.
Interesting choices, Tomahawk! I personally love Latios in DW, it is really a threat to be reckoned with. While Choice Scarf Chandelure and Pursuit Tyranitar may be problematic for it to face, if one can eliminate those soon, I believe that it can experience plenty of success.
I had a hard time buying Jynx in OU, but I actually found it to be quite effective, oddly enough! I hope that it can pull its weight in Dream World as well! I may test it sooner or later, along with Empoleon ;)
I had a hard time buying Jynx in OU, but I actually found it to be quite effective, oddly enough! I hope that it can pull its weight in Dream World as well! I may test it sooner or later, along with Empoleon ;)
canno
formerly The Reptile
Raincarona gogogo
Volcarona @ Life Orb
Trait: Swarm / Flame Body
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Quiver Dance
- Bug Buzz
- Hurricane
- Fire Blast
Volcarona does surprisingly well in the rain. Bug Buzz is now the main STAB of choice, and can hit things that Meloetta cannot (Lati@s, Reuniclus, Amoongus) while still packing a punch against other things. Hurricane is a nice coverage move, with 100% accuracy coming from Volcarona's massive 135 SpAtk. Fire Blast might seem dumb in the rain, but it is still a powerful attack, and is your best bet against Steel-types. You wanna know how powerful Fire Blast still is? At +1, Fire Blast always 2HKOs Careful 252/252 Specially Defensive Jirachi. Of course, it is going to need some major spin support, but I believe it will be a great addition to the team.
Volcarona @ Life Orb
Trait: Swarm / Flame Body
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Quiver Dance
- Bug Buzz
- Hurricane
- Fire Blast
Volcarona does surprisingly well in the rain. Bug Buzz is now the main STAB of choice, and can hit things that Meloetta cannot (Lati@s, Reuniclus, Amoongus) while still packing a punch against other things. Hurricane is a nice coverage move, with 100% accuracy coming from Volcarona's massive 135 SpAtk. Fire Blast might seem dumb in the rain, but it is still a powerful attack, and is your best bet against Steel-types. You wanna know how powerful Fire Blast still is? At +1, Fire Blast always 2HKOs Careful 252/252 Specially Defensive Jirachi. Of course, it is going to need some major spin support, but I believe it will be a great addition to the team.
To handle those threats here's my nomination:
Gliscor (M) @ Toxic Orb
Trait: Poison Heal
EVs: 252 HP / 176 Def / 80 Spd
Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
- Earthquake
- U-turn
- Taunt
- Swords Dance / Ice Fang
- Jirachi: Can switch in with ease, threatens with Earthquake and cannot be paralyzed thanks to Toxic Orb.
- Volcarona: Resists Bug Buzz but not really a great check unless Volc is already weakened to the point that EQ KOs. Can U-turn to make sure a check can switch in unharmed though.
- Reuniclus: Can Taunt preventing Trick Room/Calm Mind/Recover and doesn't take "that" much from Psyshock if it's carrying that. Can U-turn for some damage as well.
- Amoonguss: Can switch in on Spore, then U-turn to see if they switch out or if they have Hp Ice, in which case go to something that resists and can force Amoonguss out.
- Metagross: Can tank it's attacks and threaten a super effective Earthquake, not sure how common Ice Punch is though.
- Latias: Can Taunt to prevent setup and U-turn for some damage but can't take too many Dragon Pulses.
Gliscor is also one of the better Excadrill counters so he can be useful for that as well.
Gliscor (M) @ Toxic Orb
Trait: Poison Heal
EVs: 252 HP / 176 Def / 80 Spd
Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
- Earthquake
- U-turn
- Taunt
- Swords Dance / Ice Fang
- Jirachi: Can switch in with ease, threatens with Earthquake and cannot be paralyzed thanks to Toxic Orb.
- Volcarona: Resists Bug Buzz but not really a great check unless Volc is already weakened to the point that EQ KOs. Can U-turn to make sure a check can switch in unharmed though.
- Reuniclus: Can Taunt preventing Trick Room/Calm Mind/Recover and doesn't take "that" much from Psyshock if it's carrying that. Can U-turn for some damage as well.
- Amoonguss: Can switch in on Spore, then U-turn to see if they switch out or if they have Hp Ice, in which case go to something that resists and can force Amoonguss out.
- Metagross: Can tank it's attacks and threaten a super effective Earthquake, not sure how common Ice Punch is though.
- Latias: Can Taunt to prevent setup and U-turn for some damage but can't take too many Dragon Pulses.
Gliscor is also one of the better Excadrill counters so he can be useful for that as well.