But can't they all still OHKO CAP rather easily?
It was not only less flavourful but also more powerful against our conters list than scald
-
The moderators of this forum can be found in the CAP forum staff directory.
-
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
-
Congrats to the winners of the 2023 Smog Awards!
CAP 14 CAP 3 - Part 10 - Attacking Moves Discussion
- Thread starter capefeather
- Start date
- Status
Pokethan, this is attacking moves discussion. Entry Hazards are Non-Attacking Moves and will be discussed then.
Also, I would like to Support Hurricane it doesn't really gain anything on our counters who outspeed and OHKO anyways, but it gives a decent coverage option.
Also, I would like to Support Hurricane it doesn't really gain anything on our counters who outspeed and OHKO anyways, but it gives a decent coverage option.
Yes, but they can't OHKO it if they are too scared to switch in normally.
Discharge wouldn't be a bad move for it to have, but on the other part of this quote, Thunder and Thunderbolt scare water too much to disallow. Yeah it does make it a little hard to justify use outside of rain... this is why I think Eruption needs to be in Mollux's move list.acausetolead said:
Ok, now concerning Octazooka and Brine, I think you've made the point yourself with Brine, Deck. Doubled BPA at <=50% health means Mollux can - to quote Nyttyn -fuck the world, so I propose to disallow Brine.
On a more serious note, Water coverage in rain on 131 SpA stat already hits hard against the majority of Rock/Ground types that are supposed to hard-counter Mollux, rain or no. At least with Ground-type coverage, Mollux still can't touch Flying-types or Ballooned switch-ins, and doesn't get a boost from weather. Even with Octazooka's 85% accuracy, I'd say most people are still going to run it to free the Hidden Power slot, which is why I'm proposing to disallow Octazooka as well.
Reptile's calcs with Bubblebeam - Bubblebeam, mind you - shows that it hits the whole threatlist hard enough to make them wet their tails/loins/rear limbs, which can be taken as a factor to go against Octazooka and Brine as well.
On a more serious note, Water coverage in rain on 131 SpA stat already hits hard against the majority of Rock/Ground types that are supposed to hard-counter Mollux, rain or no. At least with Ground-type coverage, Mollux still can't touch Flying-types or Ballooned switch-ins, and doesn't get a boost from weather. Even with Octazooka's 85% accuracy, I'd say most people are still going to run it to free the Hidden Power slot, which is why I'm proposing to disallow Octazooka as well.
Reptile's calcs with Bubblebeam - Bubblebeam, mind you - shows that it hits the whole threatlist hard enough to make them wet their tails/loins/rear limbs, which can be taken as a factor to go against Octazooka and Brine as well.
I would not call Brine useless. Many Mollux under rain may choose to not run a fire attack, perhaps. This leaves specially defensive Jirachi as a potential switch in. However, this becomes shakey with Brine, since if Jirachi falls under half health, Brine is a guaranteed ohko (252 modest LO). Again, just one relevant calc. I'm sure there are more. Effective 195 base power off of 131 special attack is going to knock out just about all of OU once under half.
If a set of Thunder, Brine, HP Ice, Protect(?) is viable (a la Starmie) then we have failed to highlight the typing. I fear Brine may be too much.
Octazooka on the other hand is passable to me, having no doubling effect below half health and the mediocre accuracy.
If a set of Thunder, Brine, HP Ice, Protect(?) is viable (a la Starmie) then we have failed to highlight the typing. I fear Brine may be too much.
Octazooka on the other hand is passable to me, having no doubling effect below half health and the mediocre accuracy.
I'd like to mention that neither Landorus nor Terrakion are hard counters to Mollux, nor will they likely even be the best checks. Even discounting Will-O-Wisp probably going into Required in the next stage, 252+ SpA no item Fire Blast already OHKOes Landorus, cleanly with Stealth Rock (which means Hurricane would just be ensuring a move to hit Landorus outside of Hidden Power Ice), and Terrakion takes a truckload from Hidden Power Grass, unless I guess sand is up, in which case lol Hurricane anyway. In fact, Terrakion takes more from Hidden Power Grass than from Hurricane.
hi
I think that if we focus too much on Coverage moves, especially powerful coverage, we detract from the concept which is to make the typing a selling point. Therefore with its moves, that means its STAB moves. Currently, if we pigeon-hole Mollux into rain we end up utilising only half of the STAB combo, realistically and maybe neither of the STABs considering on its own Poison isn't much of an offensive selling point. I think that Mollux needs just enough. Not a vast amount of Coverage.
I know that Fire can be a selling point in rain teams because it can stop a few counters to the regulars on a Rain team however, With Volcarona, it does that with Hurricane and Bug Buzz and most importantly, Quiver Dance. None of which help us Highlight Mollux's stat spread as the main reason to put it on its team. I personally think that heading towards rain and giving it Dry Skin wasn't a great move because that means the Ability makes the sell.
However, we've gone with what we've gone with. I think that Thunderbolt should be allowed and Thunder should be disallowed because Thunder makes it too attractive in Rain. It's great that we can use mollux in Rain however we don't want it to get to a point where realistically Rain is the only place to play Mollux. For that reason, I say no to Hurricane Although Hurricane doesn't make it much stronger than it already is, In Rain, Hurricane can shit on things, especially off a 131 SpA stat. I don't think that Brine should be disallowed because as has been stated it would make Mollux too good at cleaning up in the rain, furthering its appeal in the rain, and not for its typing. That said I support Octazooka to be moved to allowed it is weaker than Hidden Power Water and doesn't have 100% accuracy plus its side effect of reducing accuracy is insignificant and therefore wouldn't be a strong choice. (plus Although this is flavour... OCTAZOOKA :) :) :) ) Basically I see very little competitive grounds to disallow it.
I think that Eruption should be allowed because it doesn't offer enough reliability above Fire Blast to be too strong and plus it would be a great move to use on a Choice Scarf Mollux out of the rain which would be great and the only other pokemon that can Use Eruption that is ever seen in OU is Typhlosion which we are comfortably more powerful than. Getting STAB on Eruption from 131 Sp.A is huge. Really, huge.
But yeah that's all I can think of at the moment will edit in some more thoughts later. Sorry if this is all wrong
I think that if we focus too much on Coverage moves, especially powerful coverage, we detract from the concept which is to make the typing a selling point. Therefore with its moves, that means its STAB moves. Currently, if we pigeon-hole Mollux into rain we end up utilising only half of the STAB combo, realistically and maybe neither of the STABs considering on its own Poison isn't much of an offensive selling point. I think that Mollux needs just enough. Not a vast amount of Coverage.
I know that Fire can be a selling point in rain teams because it can stop a few counters to the regulars on a Rain team however, With Volcarona, it does that with Hurricane and Bug Buzz and most importantly, Quiver Dance. None of which help us Highlight Mollux's stat spread as the main reason to put it on its team. I personally think that heading towards rain and giving it Dry Skin wasn't a great move because that means the Ability makes the sell.
However, we've gone with what we've gone with. I think that Thunderbolt should be allowed and Thunder should be disallowed because Thunder makes it too attractive in Rain. It's great that we can use mollux in Rain however we don't want it to get to a point where realistically Rain is the only place to play Mollux. For that reason, I say no to Hurricane Although Hurricane doesn't make it much stronger than it already is, In Rain, Hurricane can shit on things, especially off a 131 SpA stat. I don't think that Brine should be disallowed because as has been stated it would make Mollux too good at cleaning up in the rain, furthering its appeal in the rain, and not for its typing. That said I support Octazooka to be moved to allowed it is weaker than Hidden Power Water and doesn't have 100% accuracy plus its side effect of reducing accuracy is insignificant and therefore wouldn't be a strong choice. (plus Although this is flavour... OCTAZOOKA :) :) :) ) Basically I see very little competitive grounds to disallow it.
I think that Eruption should be allowed because it doesn't offer enough reliability above Fire Blast to be too strong and plus it would be a great move to use on a Choice Scarf Mollux out of the rain which would be great and the only other pokemon that can Use Eruption that is ever seen in OU is Typhlosion which we are comfortably more powerful than. Getting STAB on Eruption from 131 Sp.A is huge. Really, huge.
But yeah that's all I can think of at the moment will edit in some more thoughts later. Sorry if this is all wrong
how about a custom Fire Type move that doesn't get halved in rain? maybe something like Base 60 Power, 100acc, Fire Type move. that way, our Fire STAB wouldn't be hindered in rain and we could use our typing to our advantage in all situations (which is basically our goal in this CAP). I like the 60 BAP mostly because it'll be effectively base 90 thanks to STAB, the strongest reliable fire move under rain, but not all of that under other conditions, so it's not broken either.. Also, it doesn't make Mollux a rain slave because it'll still get way stronger options for sun/weatherless teams.
canno
formerly The Reptile
I think I should mention another disadvantage of using any water-type coverage, which is it allows us to use our HP for something else, and it gives us too much coverage. Look at Nidoking for example, another Poison-type. In UU, it rarely uses it's Poison-STAB. Why? Because it has the best coverage ever. Why run Poison-STAB when you have Earth Power, Fire Blast/Flamethrower, Ice Beam, and Thunderbolt at your disposal? I fear that if we give Mollux too much coverage, it won't use it's Poison STAB too much and dilute it's typing, so I say disallow all special water-type moves. This is also why I'm think Hurricane should not be allowed. If both of these are allowed, a viable set for Mollux is Hurricane / 65 BP Water Move / Thunder / HP [Fighting]. Notice how there are no STABs there? That's because Poison STAB isn't needed when you can have this much coverage, and Fire STAB is weakened by the rain. Now I'm ok with Thunder(bolt) because it threatens Water-type pokemon (bar Gastrodon, but he's also Ground-type, so yeah). Hurricane and Water-type move does not. Hurricane is only useful for Fighting-type pokemon, the confusion chance, hitting Terrakion harder than Poison-type, hitting Ferrothorn(and Bug/Steel types) neutrally, and full accuracy in the rain. Meanwhile, water-type coverage is only there to fuck up anything that wants to threaten us. It helps with nothing else bar Heatran, which is threatened if it runs the offensive set and can't touch us if it uses the defensive set. I have already ran the calcs, in the rain, 65 BP Water moves fuck up our checks/coutners bar Dragonite, who won't appreciate a Thunder/Hurricane to the face.
Having a move that doesn't get halved in rain at 60BP is in effect a more accurate Fire Blast. What happens if rain gets stopped? Fire Blast is a better choice, although more situational Mollux doesn't need that extra move in the rain. Plus it's not often, unless it's essential to the concept that CAP makes a new move or a new ability or a new anything mechanical. Mollux doesn't need a new move, mainly because its Fire STAB is mostly redundant against enemies in the rain apart from the few against whom it is 4* effective against.
56% of Nidoking use Sludge Wave in UU. Yes, that's largely because of Heat Rotom, but at any rate, it just makes using a UU example that much less compelling.
The concept says nothing about having to use both types' STAB moves effectively. The concept merely demands that the typing is used effectively in some fashion. Now that we're near the end, we need to make sure that Mollux is actually effective in OU. Sticking to rigid, overly specific interpretations of the concept runs into the danger of countering that goal.
People might look at the Hurricane+Thunder combo and think that Mollux will just coast through everything with a combo that's unresisted outside of Steelix and Rock/Grounds. People might look at just one of these moves and think that Mollux will be pigeonholed into rain teams where it can use a 120 Base Power coverage move. However, let's think about how strong such sets would actually be. Hurricane and Thunder are still pretty much equivalent to 80 Base Power STAB. In rain, if Mollux does ditch its Fire STAB, it's basically around Gyarados's power level... and Gyarados at least has Dragon Dance.
I'm not saying that Mollux needs Thunder and Hurricane to be viable. I just think that these moves are being a tad oversold.
The concept says nothing about having to use both types' STAB moves effectively. The concept merely demands that the typing is used effectively in some fashion. Now that we're near the end, we need to make sure that Mollux is actually effective in OU. Sticking to rigid, overly specific interpretations of the concept runs into the danger of countering that goal.
People might look at the Hurricane+Thunder combo and think that Mollux will just coast through everything with a combo that's unresisted outside of Steelix and Rock/Grounds. People might look at just one of these moves and think that Mollux will be pigeonholed into rain teams where it can use a 120 Base Power coverage move. However, let's think about how strong such sets would actually be. Hurricane and Thunder are still pretty much equivalent to 80 Base Power STAB. In rain, if Mollux does ditch its Fire STAB, it's basically around Gyarados's power level... and Gyarados at least has Dragon Dance.
I'm not saying that Mollux needs Thunder and Hurricane to be viable. I just think that these moves are being a tad oversold.
Asylum_Rhapsody
Guest
If we're going to create a custom move, then we might as well cut to the chase and create a Fire-type attack (Desiccate? Vaporize?) or Poison-type attack (Contaminate? Pollute?) that's super effective against Water-type Pokemon.
EDIT: I'm not saying that I support the creation of a custom move. I don't have a preference one way or the other, but it seems mostly unnecessary unless we really want to get it to use its Poison STAB or something. All I'm saying is that, hypothetically, if we were to create a custom move, then we might as well be more direct about it.
I'm actually in support of this. Since Mollux is actually going to be pretty rain-heavy, it won't get to use its Fire-typing effectively that often. Unless one either uses Eruption at full health or an Illuminate variant, then Fire STABs would generally be considered a moveslot waste in the rain. Given how it has its STAB Poison-type attack, an Electric-type move, and Hidden Power to make up for no Fire-type move, I feel like the Fire-type aspect of Mollux will go to waste altogether, which doesn't help to make full use of its typing.
All of this said, a Fire-type move that doesn't become weaker in rain would remedy that. Giving Mollux a Fire-type move that could be comfortably used in the rain would be also make it a good rain-counter on weatherless teams as well. No longer would the likes of Ferrothorn and Scizor be able to hide comfortably from Mollux, knowing that it probably won't run an extremely powerful Fire-type move in the rain. A signature move such as that would help to make weatherless teams viable again in the midst of all the Rain-teams that are sure to plague playtesting.
I'd like to hear some opposition to this at the very least, as so far the only real opposition that comes to mind is that it would seem outclassed in comparison to moves such as Eruption and Fire Blast, but even that argument comes off as only sub-par as both are unreliable in that they both have very little PP, with Eruption varying in power and Fire Blast not being entirely accurate.
Asylum_Rhapsody
Guest
If we do give it this custom move, then I propose that we change this Pokemon's name to Adele.
We're not making a custom move. You know what's already 60 BP in Rain? Lava Plume. You know what's already 60 BP in Rain, before STAB? Fire Blast.
It's so dreadfully unnecessary.
Lava Plume comfortably OHKOs Standard Scizor and Ferrothorn in Rain. That's the whole reason we have 131 Special Attack!
It's so dreadfully unnecessary.
Lava Plume comfortably OHKOs Standard Scizor and Ferrothorn in Rain. That's the whole reason we have 131 Special Attack!
I'm against SunnyE's proposal of a fire move that don't get halved in rain. First of all I don't really support making custom moves unless it's for a realy good reason. Second of all is because this move wouldn't really be useful outside of a rain team and adding this to mollux ontop dry skin feel just like going too far and i fail to see the reason why it would even be neccesary in the first place.
It seem like theres a bunch of people simply thinking of Rain but with a secondary ability it's now a possibibility to run it in Sun aswell. Just felt like getting that out.
It seem like theres a bunch of people simply thinking of Rain but with a secondary ability it's now a possibibility to run it in Sun aswell. Just felt like getting that out.
I would disallow all attacking Water moves excepting:
Bubble Beam, Water Pulse, Hidden Power and Razor Claw
and allow Mud Bomb and Earthquake (but disallow Earth Power)
Some calculations:
Modest 252 SpAtk Leftovers Mollux Rain Bubble Beam -> Calm 252 HP 252 SpDef Heatran:
150 - 178 = 38.9% - 46.1%
Modest 252 SpAtk Leftovers Mollux Rain Water Pulse -> Naïve 252 HP 4 SpDef Heatran:
228 - 270 = 70.6% - 83.6%
Modest 252 SpAtk Leftovers Mollux Rain Bubble Beam -> Naïve 252 HP 4 SpDef Heatran:
248 - 292 = 76.8% - 90.4%
Modest 252 SpAtk Life Orb Mollux Rain Water Pulse -> Naïve 252 HP 4 SpDef Heatran:
296 - 350 = 91.6% - 108.4%
Modest 252 SpAtk Leftovers Mollux Sun Mud Bomb -> Naïve 252 HP 252 SpDef Heatran:
220 - 260 = 57% - 67.4%
Modest 252 SpAtk Leftovers Mollux Rain Water Pulse -> Jolly 4 HP Dugtrio
316 - 372 = 149.1% - 175.5%
Modest 252 SpAtk Leftovers Mollux Rain Bubble Beam -> Calm 252 HP 252 SpDef Claydol
150 - 178 = 46.3% - 54.9%
Hidden Power Water is slightly better, however you can only have one hidden power as additional type coverage and it results in a drop of SpAtk and Speed by 1 IV each, especially the speed drop can be critical.
Razor Claw/Earthquake: Mollux' Attack Stat is too low to use this move competitively.
Bubble Beam, Water Pulse, Hidden Power and Razor Claw
and allow Mud Bomb and Earthquake (but disallow Earth Power)
Some calculations:
Modest 252 SpAtk Leftovers Mollux Rain Bubble Beam -> Calm 252 HP 252 SpDef Heatran:
150 - 178 = 38.9% - 46.1%
Modest 252 SpAtk Leftovers Mollux Rain Water Pulse -> Naïve 252 HP 4 SpDef Heatran:
228 - 270 = 70.6% - 83.6%
Modest 252 SpAtk Leftovers Mollux Rain Bubble Beam -> Naïve 252 HP 4 SpDef Heatran:
248 - 292 = 76.8% - 90.4%
Modest 252 SpAtk Life Orb Mollux Rain Water Pulse -> Naïve 252 HP 4 SpDef Heatran:
296 - 350 = 91.6% - 108.4%
Modest 252 SpAtk Leftovers Mollux Sun Mud Bomb -> Naïve 252 HP 252 SpDef Heatran:
220 - 260 = 57% - 67.4%
Modest 252 SpAtk Leftovers Mollux Rain Water Pulse -> Jolly 4 HP Dugtrio
316 - 372 = 149.1% - 175.5%
Modest 252 SpAtk Leftovers Mollux Rain Bubble Beam -> Calm 252 HP 252 SpDef Claydol
150 - 178 = 46.3% - 54.9%
Hidden Power Water is slightly better, however you can only have one hidden power as additional type coverage and it results in a drop of SpAtk and Speed by 1 IV each, especially the speed drop can be critical.
Razor Claw/Earthquake: Mollux' Attack Stat is too low to use this move competitively.
Wow I'm surprised Scald was so swiftly Disallowed. What attacks do we suppose this CAP will use in Rain, given that its STABs are terrible for it and its only competitive Ability is tailored to that particular weather? Acid Spray? We've already been choosing the conservative route every step of the way for this project, and now we seem committed to pursuing an ironic fish-out-of-water build. How does disassociating Mollux's movepool with its Ability even relate to the concept at all, and at which point are we going to fully compensate for its typing? It has one moderately competitive Ability, moderately competitive stats, and now predictable, limited coverage. Where's the Extreme Makeover? I don't believe there's much left for us to learn about leaning on Hidden Power for coverage, so short of giving it Shell Smash we're running out of time to give this CAP something to do while it hopelessly walls Water-types or stalls for Dry Skin healing. If Mollux was the first OU Poke to have access to a move that can hit its potentially common switch-ins for SE damage then there might be some theorymoning to do about it, but that just isn't the case. The metagame just adapts to Pokemon like Salamence, Gengar, Heatran, Lucario, Conkeldurr, etc.; it doesn't crumble.
Poison/Electric/Water coverage is easily switched into by Dragons (Latias sets up, Specs Latios OHKOs offensive builds, Dragonite sets up, Salamence OHKOs, Haxorus OHKOs), Gastrodon (fully immune/resistant), and Blissey/Chansey, amongst others, and that's not even considering how the grouping can be pivoted around offensively (considering the several immunities to these types in OU) or how boosting Scald means nerfing its Fire STAB and vice versa.
In my opinion, the positive effects of having Scald in the movepool, for the concept, far outweigh the potential negative impact on the confidence of Ground and Rock-type switch-ins. That is to say, I don't think giving the move to CAP will change the way its threats are played. The Burn status is something directly associated with the Fire typing, and giving Mollux access to all of Lava Plume, Scald, and Will-o-Wisp can give it a niche as a universal Burner in any weather (since it can't really use its STABs in Rain and it takes damage in Sun/Sand/Hail), along with giving Mollux some artillery against the "obvious" Fire/Poison counters we identified before; qualities which I believe speak directly to the goals of the concept. It doesn't make the CAP un-counterable by any means, which must be the concern everyone's having, as a thorough list of threats would include Sand teams in general, Sun teams, Rain teams (for offensive CAP), defensive Pokemon with Ground moves, almost all 77+ Spe Pokes with SE moves, and Stealth Rock/Spikes, besides its lacking movepool. Don't we want this thing to be good?
Scald is absolutely necessary to take advantage of Rain or give the CAP an edge over Heatran or the other Fire-types in OU, which are all either faster or have better movepools at this point. A Water immunity, Electric/Hidden Power coverage, WoW, and a gimmick Acid Spray set (has potential on a faster Poke, though) are not enough to cram this thing into OU. CAP's BSR is low enough to give movepool creators more freedom with VGMs, so unless we plan on going the conservative route again or filling the movepool with tons of NAMs or repetitive STAB options, we should look to a really inoffensive coverage move in Scald to give this Pokemon some purpose.
Just want to point out to everyone that the unbolded calcs are assuming Rain is up, a situation that specifically disadvantages the defending Pokemon here, both by typing and by strategy (Sand). The bolded additions are the less scary calcs outside of Rain and put Mollux's Scald in a damage range just above defensive Politoed, for perspective. Remember that's a fully invested, SE attack to each; this just looks like regular weather wars stuff to me. If anything, the calcs show that this CAP can actually fill a spot on a Rain team, which might be fun, considering Dry Skin, right? Fire/
In my opinion, the positive effects of having Scald in the movepool, for the concept, far outweigh the potential negative impact on the confidence of Ground and Rock-type switch-ins. That is to say, I don't think giving the move to CAP will change the way its threats are played. The Burn status is something directly associated with the Fire typing, and giving Mollux access to all of Lava Plume, Scald, and Will-o-Wisp can give it a niche as a universal Burner in any weather (since it can't really use its STABs in Rain and it takes damage in Sun/Sand/Hail), along with giving Mollux some artillery against the "obvious" Fire/Poison counters we identified before; qualities which I believe speak directly to the goals of the concept. It doesn't make the CAP un-counterable by any means, which must be the concern everyone's having, as a thorough list of threats would include Sand teams in general, Sun teams, Rain teams (for offensive CAP), defensive Pokemon with Ground moves, almost all 77+ Spe Pokes with SE moves, and Stealth Rock/Spikes, besides its lacking movepool. Don't we want this thing to be good?
Scald is absolutely necessary to take advantage of Rain or give the CAP an edge over Heatran or the other Fire-types in OU, which are all either faster or have better movepools at this point. A Water immunity, Electric/Hidden Power coverage, WoW, and a gimmick Acid Spray set (has potential on a faster Poke, though) are not enough to cram this thing into OU. CAP's BSR is low enough to give movepool creators more freedom with VGMs, so unless we plan on going the conservative route again or filling the movepool with tons of NAMs or repetitive STAB options, we should look to a really inoffensive coverage move in Scald to give this Pokemon some purpose.
Err… you meant Razor Shell, right?
Hrrm...
well, I'll be going soon, so here's what I'll do:
Reopening the floor on Scald:
I moved it pretty hastily from Required to Disallowed, that's a bit much. The discussion of Water Moves in Rain off 131 SpA is scary, but bear in mind it relies on weather control, and Mollux presents a paradox in that it counters Rain to an extent it may encourage more Sand.
I'm comfortable with the rest going to vote, and I'd like input before moving Scald from pending to controversial, allowed, or disallowed.
I'll look at this discussion again when I get back later tonight.
well, I'll be going soon, so here's what I'll do:
Reopening the floor on Scald:
I moved it pretty hastily from Required to Disallowed, that's a bit much. The discussion of Water Moves in Rain off 131 SpA is scary, but bear in mind it relies on weather control, and Mollux presents a paradox in that it counters Rain to an extent it may encourage more Sand.
I'm comfortable with the rest going to vote, and I'd like input before moving Scald from pending to controversial, allowed, or disallowed.
I'll look at this discussion again when I get back later tonight.
MCBarrett
i love it when you call me big hoppa
scald hits nearly all of mollux's threat list super effectively and it has the chance of burning which walls them even more as they're basically all physical attackers. plus the rain boost just makes it way too much of a game changer, i really think we should be focusing on utilizing stabs (yes they're poor but thats kind of the whole point of this concept and the 131 sp att). i also dont really think mollux should be an offensive powerhouse per se. given its ability and stat spread it will be just as effective, if not more, as a bulky special attacker rather than going all out for offense and focusing on incredibly powerful and accurate coverage moves.
to defend my fire-type move that doesn't get halved in rain, I'd like to mention that it is Considerably Stronger than Lava Plume under rain, and has perfect accuracy, so it's superior to Fire Blast in that, also, it would most likely have more PP than Fire Blast, since it is weaker in any other condition than rain. As for it being Useful, It gives Mollux a reasonable way to use it's fire STAB even when in rain. Yes, we are already strong enough to net OHKOs on Scizor and Ferrothorn, but -as bulky as ferry is- that's a 4x super effective move, and that is the main reason for the KO, not that our move is strong enough. besides, I only said base 60 as a random low, but not too low, number.. that can be different, although I would rather it stayed in between base 60 and base 80, so that it doesn't become to much of a 'broken' move. I don't know how to do calcs, so, if someone could do that to show how this move would work against pokemon we're likely to face in rain, like Toxikroak, Jirachi, Tornadus, Bronzong, Volcarona and Mollux, I'd be very grateful.
- Status