CAP 14 CAP 3 - Part 10 - Attacking Moves Discussion

[Scoopapa]

I think Thunder should be moved to allowed, rather than required (especially with Thunderbolt being allowed now). We are resistant or immune to basically everything or threatens list can throw at us (Heatran being the obvious exception but we already know that Earth Power tran beats us), including damaging status. We aren't really in a position where we need to kill them fast or we'll fail to threaten them. There are a myriad of ways we could deal with them, so forcing every movepool to carry Thunder seems needlessly limiting to me.

The argument about Acid Spray could go on forever, since the move has both damaging and non-damaging aspects. It's less direct than Scald, but it's also meaningfully more powerful than Fake Tears, especially in situations where all you achieved was to force a switch. Maybe the extra damage will never matter if you're playing heavy offense, but that's a distinction beyond what we're doing here. I'm not criticizing anyone for having principled objections to this but I think it stalls the thread to get hung up on an issue that's so "on the fence" considering how little difference it ultimately makes.

I would also like to reiterate that I think Hurricane should be allowed, since it only helps with non-Terrakion Fighting-types, who we should be able threaten and against whom we could really use the help. Scald becoming disallowed has drastically lowered the power of our offensive movepool so I think this is more relevant than ever.

 

[Deck Knight]

Clear Smog is definitely a support move. Acid Spray's whole point is the geometric damage it does. Much like you factor in Draco Meteor's -2SpA into what it can 2HKO, it's reasonable to include Acid Spray's -2SpD into what it can 2HKO. Think about it: If the opponent switches out because a second Acid Spray would KO it, you have forced out either a counter or threatened something by virtue of dealing damage with an attack. You're using it because it's effective BP after STAB is 60 + 120, much like Draco Meteor's is 210 + 105. If anything could make Ice Ball, Rollout, or Fury Cutter offensively viable, it'd be the same principle, though people dispute the means. In any case it'll be on the support movepool even if I cede the point, so it might as well be considered given in this context.

Hurricane does seem absurd given the mon we're dealing with here, but I can be convinced. I'll put it in pending so people can gather their thoughts.

 

[Cease Tick]

Venoshock- With proper support, Mollux could potentially have strong STAB options in Fire Blast and Venshock, 120 BP and a 130 BP respectively. Being a fire-type, Mollux would have Steel types thinking twice before switching in making the poison typing a very reliable attacking option (except against Heatran and, of course, those whom resist poison). It should be very effective in netting KO's with the prerequisite poison/toxic status along with other forms of residual damage.

I think this option needs more attention. With support, Venoshock is really strong. For comparison, it hits harder than SE thunderbolt (195 BP vs 180 BP), so you could potentially go without electric coverage in exchange for other coverage or more support moves. Toxic support isn't that hard to get, either. Consider a core of Politoed/Tentacruel/Mollux. Toed fuels rain dish and dry skin, while cruel sets up tspikes so mollux can hit hard with venoshock. The worst case scenario of including it is that the move sucks and no one uses it, because it needs a bit too much support to be considered overpowered, and it doesn't kill things that Mollux shouldn't be killing normally. PLUS, it emphasizes the goal of turning CAP 3's typing into an advantage by using an often neglected STAB.

 

[LouisCyphre]

Alright, just indexing the current "Pending" list [Eruption, Brine, Charge Beam, Dark Pulse, Power Gem, Mud Bomb, Mud Shot, Hex, Shadow Ball, Signal Beam] against the agreed-upon threat list, I'm comfortable with everything here beyond Brine being allowed. I'll go through case-by-case here.

Eruption is a rather comical case of interaction with Dry Skin. Tt can get a vicious 150 BP STAB sun-boosted hit off... once. After that Dry Skin kicks in and it drops to 132 BP, which is still rather formidable. Given another shot—which is either against the weakened target of the first hit or against a revenge killer, assuming Mollux stays in—and it drops again to 114 BP, now losing to Fire Blast. Most residual damage and healing can be roughly measured in Eruption BP loss, actually: Stealth Rock cuts 37 BP, Sandstorm cuts 9 BP per turn, Dry Skin gives or takes 18 BP, and so on. Given a spinner, a wish-passer, and a bulky switch-move user to get Mollux in, then a Choice Specs 150 BP Eruption is physically possible. Just highly improbable. More importantly, the weather that boosts Eruption weakens Mollux and vice-versa, so both weathers are detrimental to Eruption. This means Eruption encourages weatherless Mollux, a concept we really haven't explored. For good reason, I imagine.

Brine is cute, even if the pitchforks are out against it. Against the majority of our threatlist (specifically the ones without Rock typing), Brine scores a weaker hit than Fire Blast (130 BP for SE, assuming high target HP, vs. Fire Blast's 180 BP). This changes up a bit in the rain, and would be the main reason to exclude Brine. Brine really does dick-all to the things we want to threaten (except O'Heatran), but tears in to our counter list like no other. At least, not like anything that's currently allowed.

Charge Beam is a cute option that can act as a watered-down option to Acid Spray, except for one key difference in that the boosts are only lost if Mollux switches out. Picking up a stray boost could put foes in a very tight spot, but Mollux can only squeeze a Charge Beam boost in 70% of the time, if the foe doesn't switch to Landorus or another Ground-type. There's no real harm in having this, unless creating a SubCharge set counts as "harm".

Fiery Dance deserves mention here, since it's roughly the same deal (60 BP after Rain and STAB) with a weaker boost chance, but becomes a powerful tool for punishing a weather change with or without boosts. It also, notably, has identical BP and typing to Lava Plume, which was the reason our 131 SpA stat was chosen—those rainy KOs on Scizor and Ferrothorn still stand whether it's Lava Plume or Fiery Dance.​

Mud Bomb and Mud Shot are rather double-edged. On one hand, there's no better way to scare opposing Mollux, short of H.P. Ground. On the other, the coverage on the Rock half of our threatlist is off-putting. Mud Shot seems safer if we err this direction, and it's not touching something like BalloonTran or Dragonite any time soon.

Hex is cute with the Burns we're spreading, but we're getting less damage from SE boosted Hex than we are on something like Thunder or Fire Blast on just about everything he'd be trying to Hex. We are a powerful status platform as it is, though, with Thunder and Lava Plume flying around—we inflict a status every third attack on average. No point in disallowing it, but there's reason to have it.

Power Gem is interesting, giving us a free H.P. Rock that we're liable to never use. Dragonite takes roughly the same hit from STAB Sludge Wave and is more afraid of H.P. Ice, Thunder, or Lava Plume. It nails opposing Mollux, giving it reason to appear in the movepool, but we're not likely to employ it.

Shadow Ball, Dark Pulse, and Signal Beam don't do much for Mollux at all, but I'd like to see a lot of types in the movepool. They're no scarier than anything else we can carry, really. There's no reason to disallow them if someone like-minded wants to include them.

If Brine and Mud Bomb got axed and everything else here got in, we'd be liable to employ Hidden Power Ice, Water, or Grass. I can't really put together any potentially overpowering sets with that. I can see, perhaps, Thunder / H.P. Ice / Lava Plume, or Fire Blast / Sludge Wave / H.P. Grass. Substitute / Mud Shot / Thunder / coverage is an option in Rain to slow down and overtake counters, but this specializes Mollux too far, as far as I can tell.

edit: ooh Hurricane hmm

[box]252+ Mollux Leftovers Hurricane to Specially Defensive Tyranitar: 8.66 - 10.14%
252+ Mollux Leftovers Hurricane to Choice Band Tyranitar: 12.63 - 15%
252+ Mollux Leftovers Hurricane to Choice Scarf Landorus: 60.81 - 71.78% (guaranteed 2HKO)
252+ Mollux Leftovers Hurricane to Offensive Heatran: 21.05 - 25.07%
252+ Mollux Leftovers Hurricane to Specially Defensive Heatran: 14.8 - 17.4%
252+ Mollux Leftovers Hurricane to any Terrakion ever: 32.71 - 38.27% (99.39% chance to 3HKO)
252+ Mollux Leftovers Hurricane to Defensive Gliscor: 51.97 - 61.29% (58.98% chance to 2HKO after Poison Heal)
252+ Mollux Leftovers Hurricane to 4/0 Dugtrio: 91.5 - 108.01% (50% chance to OHKO)
252+ Mollux Leftovers Hurricane to Defensive Politoed: 37.5 - 44.27% (guaranteed 3HKO)
252+ Mollux Leftovers Hurricane to Choice Scarf Politoed: 44.85 - 52.95% (28.13% chance to 2HKO)[/box]

Yeah I don't see an issue with allowing HURRICANE!!! for Mollux. Taking out Toxicroak is fun little side-effect.

 

[Hiphopanonymous]

I'm really not liking the sound of ANY water or ground moves. It'll turn Mollux into either a rain slave, a nearly unstoppable behemoth, or both. I'm not even in favor of Water Gun. And this includes Weather Ball.

As for Venoshock, I'm all for it. The worst that could happen is that it would be outclassed by the other Poison STABS. Would give Toxistall teams a way of finishing off important threats, if used on one.

I'm a little iffy about Hurricane, though. I seriously didn't expect it to come up at all, and it honestly surprises me. Although, I don't really see a problem with it. The OU Fighting types would be potentially countered, and the Grass types get slammed with Mollux's Fire STAB of choice, anyways.

I'm against Thunder/bolt, honestly. With that high of a SpAtk stat, HP Electric wouldn't be too bad. Plus it would keep HP Water and Ground from seeing the light of day, seeing as it needs a way to take out Water types.

 

[Bughouse]

To say Hurricane is not threatening against Terrakion is a bit tenuous. If Mollux is Running 252 Sp Attack Modest (with Lefties) there is a 96% chance of a 2HKO (guaranteed with Rocks), meaning Terrakion can no longer switch in willy-nilly on Mollux. True, it couldn't necessarily before, because of Lava Plume or Will-o-Wisp, but Hurricane is certainly an even stronger deterrent. The main reason being that many Terrakion are choiced, and Mollux will likely be running Protect for the Rain Dish recovery. This means that if Mollux predicts the Terrakion switch, it gets to deal ~50% damage to Terrakion, possibly confuse it, and Protect scout Terrakion's move if it is choiced.

Of course this strategy is rain-dependent, but then, so is Mollux in many ways.

As for Eruption, I am all for it. The whole point of adding a second ability, after deciding on our spread IMO was to keep the possibility of a Scarf Eruption set alive. Dry Skin is not bad for a Sun team, since it gives the water immunity, but it certainly puts a damper on Offensive sets under the sun, which are so natural with Double Stab Fire moves and a massive Sp Attack.

 

[Clankenator007]

Sorry for suggesting a move that falls under the disallowed special fighting-type designation, but I believe that Vacuum wavedeserves a mention in this CAP's move pool. I don't think it really counts as fighting coverage because even a super effective hit does less damage than flamethrower, and with modest nature and life orb CAP3 only has about a 1% percent chance of 2HKO'ing offensive heatran and terrakion, who OHKO back with earthpower/quake. I think priority is important to this mon as its bad typing will often leave it in an unfavorable matchup against an opposing sweeper, but can't switch out because it's SR weakness leaves it unable to come back in. Priority helps this mon not be a sitting duck to be KO'd. I think the community has done a good job with the mon so far, but a SR weakness+weakness to common attacks+ subpar speed can lead to bad situations. This mon's move pool needs to pick up what this mon lacks or it might end up like Kyurem.

 

[Choice Socks]

Octazooka
From a flavor point of view, it fits perfectly. From a competitve PoV it's a good water attack for him. It is not too powerful like scald, and has imperfect accuracy So it is a bit of a risk picking it.

 

[canno]

Octazooka is too strong. If you want to see what it can do to it's checks/counters in the rain, go check out my calcs for BubbleBeam (same BP). It also make a different Hidden Power available.

 

[uwnim]

Allow Hurricane. Out of our counters, it really only threatens Terrakion and only in the rain. Outside of rain, Fire Blast will hit Gliscor harder than Hurricane does in the rain and Dugtrio doesn't like taking any attacks.

 

[SunnyE]

Octazooka is weaker than HP water, how is it too strong, reptile?

I really like, honestly, I support Octazooka as the only water move Mollux gets...

 

[Deck Knight]

I'm going to put 3 moves in Controversial for now:

Hurricane, Brine, and Octazooka.

The first gives a significant coverage move in Rain that doesn't directly address Counters, but isn't particularly weak against them either. The other two do allow for a non-Water Hidden Power, but here's the thing: right now we have Electric, Fire, and Poison coverage along with Hidden Power (and I suppose Power Gem). There are a whole slew of Pokemon that coverage can't counter without modifying the Hidden Power, among them Gastrodon and the Latis. Water coverage doesn't harm any of them, and by choosing moves other than Scald we don't imperil what is supposed to counter CAP 3 that much.

Still, it does offer psuedo-STAB in Rain and does free up Hidden Power, though lets be honest: HP Water was unlikely to beat out HP Grass or HP Ice, Pseudo-STAB or no. And yes, it is dangerous in Rain, but that's what other weather starters are for, and I daresay the fact Mollux screws with Rain will balance it out more with Sand and Sun teams. Brine is the more powerful of the two, but its >50% KO's are all basically overkill, while Octazooka has some accuracy problems.

 

[capefeather]

I'm not quite sure why Hurricane should be in Controversial. It's been in Pending long enough for people to argue for disallowing it, but I don't recall anyone doing so. So either the community is fine with it despite hitting all the threats with a neutral 120 (Allow), or they somehow aren't aware of the potential consequences of hitting all the threats with a neutral 120 (Pending). At least that's how I would interpret this.

Also where did Weather Ball go? Is it disallowed or...???

 

[Banryu]

Given that Octazooka is inaccurate and weaker than Hidden Power anyway, I see no reason to disallow it. So why not allow Octazooka? I honestly can't think of a reason.

Vacuum Wave is kind of a strange suggestion, too. I feel inclined to say 'allow', though now that I think about it, I can see Vacuum Wave being deadly against guys like Tyranitar who switch into an Acid Spray or even a charge beam. On its own, it doesn't threaten much, especially with the SS boost for Terrakion and Tyranitar, though I have to wonder how dangerous it could be at -2. I suppose Tyranitar is the prime target for Vacuum Wave, if it would even be used (I doubt it). Could we get some calcs on that maybe?

 

[uwnim]

As far as our threats go, Hurricane gives us nothing. Gliscor, Landorus and Dugtrio all have problems with HP Ice and the rest are neutral to Thunder.

 

[doughboy]

I am very late into this discussion (and even CAPmon itself) but has any thought be lent to an idea to a DW Exclusive move I.E. A move that is available only for its DW ability ? I haven't found any discussion of whether how the setup will be for yet ( x is IG | y is DW or x,y is IG | y is DW), but I think some move exclusivity should be put on the table.

 

[Bughouse]

I'm gonna voice opposition to Hurricane, then, cape. Not for any particular calculated reason, I just think Flying actually has pretty decent offensive neutral coverage in OU, and I don't really particularly like the 120 BP 100% accuracy under Rain. The only reason I could possibly enjoy it being allowed is in order to counter Tomohawk in the CAP metagame. But we build for OU at the moment at least, and, there, I'm against Hurricane. Plus... I know flavor is off limits here... but really? Every Hurricane user bar-Whimsicott has wings.

One relevant calculation against Hurricane, though not the only one, I'm sure, is against Gastrodon. Now most are specially defensive. But 252 Modest LO Hurricane is doing about half to physically defensive Gastrodon (252 HP and 64 Sp Def in my calc.) That's a little much for me. With a layer of Spikes, there's a really good chance of a 2HKO. With 2 layers it's virtually guaranteed barring min damage both times. (Lefties is factored in, yes.)

Gastrodon should be a more solid check/counter to Rain Mollux and should not be dependent on running a specially bulky set to survive. Even Gastrodoooom should be able to switch in safely barring HP Grass.

 

[AOPSUser]

Octazooka: This adds Water-type coverage, albeit with loss of accuracy. It allows Mollux to secure some OHKOs, but still pales in comparison to Scald. If Scald gets banned, we should disallow Octazooka.

Brine: Rubbing salt in the wounds of weakened Pokemon. This is just slightly weaker than Scald and still nets a lot of OHKOs. Also, it allows Mollux to finish off weakened Pokemon, even if they resist Water. Disallow Brine.

Hurricane: Really, this does nothing for Mollux except another 120 BP move. Thunder is more useful in every way. Besides, do you think Rain Volcarona is used just for Hurricane? I say allow Hurricane. Flavor-wise, it has tons of flaws, but nevertheless it should be allowed.

 

[ZhengTann]

... edit: ooh Hurricane hmm

[box]252+ Mollux Leftovers Hurricane to Choice Scarf Landorus: 60.81 - 71.78% (guaranteed 2HKO)
252+ Mollux Leftovers Hurricane to Offensive Heatran: 21.05 - 25.07%
252+ Mollux Leftovers Hurricane to any Terrakion ever: 32.71 - 38.27% (99.39% chance to 3HKO)
252+ Mollux Leftovers Hurricane to Defensive Gliscor: 51.97 - 61.29% (58.98% chance to 2HKO after Poison Heal)
252+ Mollux Leftovers Hurricane to 4/0 Dugtrio: 91.5 - 108.01% (50% chance to OHKO)
252+ Mollux Leftovers Hurricane to Defensive Politoed: 37.5 - 44.27% (guaranteed 3HKO)
252+ Mollux Leftovers Hurricane to Choice Scarf Politoed: 44.85 - 52.95% (28.13% chance to 2HKO)[/box]

This is Hurricane we're talking about. 120 BPA, with the secondary effect of 30% confusion inflicting rate. This means barely guaranteed 2HKOs are just about equal to 15% clean OHKOs. There's the accuracy issue, of course, but with Dry Skin, most people wouldn't bother running it outside of rain. It doesn't really help against the things we're supposed to threaten, and it screws over some threats we want it to flee on sight. So I'm going to go against Hurricane.

If you want to hit Fighting-types hard, just use Mollux's dual-STABs, I'll put in some calcs if no one else does it in 14 hours

 

[samtheman]

Running Hurricane on Mollux, just like running Thunder, practically requires having Politoed as a teammate. (I realize the same could be said for Dry Skin. This is another way in which Mollux is less likely to shake up the OU metagame.) Since rain is so dominant in OU right now, I think it might be better to give Mollux other strong coverage moves that don't depend on also running the Politoed, the #6 most used Pokemon in OU. Thus, I am opposed to Hurricane as well.

Cape, this thread's only been up for about 24 hours, so not everyone has had the chance to argue against it.

I'd like Bug Buzz to be removed from disallowed, not for any flavor reasons, but because I see it as another coverage move against threats like Lati@s, Reuniclus, Starmie, and Hydregion that can take a Fire Blast. These threats are neutral to poison, so Bug Buzz isn't exactly game-breaking, as it doesn't get great coverage with Fire and Poison.

Bug Buzz would hit Tyranitar for super-effective damage, but doesn't come close to 2HKOing standard Ttar in sand. In the meantime, Tyranitar is hitting Mollux with a nasty Stone Edge. None of Mollux's other threats are hit harder by Bug Buzz than by its STABs (minus Heatran, who 4x resists it). Bug Buzz should be considered as an allowed move.

edit: I also want to agree with bugmaniacbob, and ask why so many moves are required. While I'm in full support of Lava Plume, Solarbeam, and Acid Spray, I feel someone submitting a movepool should have the right to exclude any of them as the creator sees fit. Correct me if I'm wrong, but historically, haven't required moves been things like Protect, Toxic, Substitute, and Hidden Power, moves all Pokemon that learn TM moves can learn?

 

[MCBarrett]

Allow Hurricane. Out of our counters, it really only threatens Terrakion and only in the rain. Outside of rain, Fire Blast will hit Gliscor harder than Hurricane does in the rain and Dugtrio doesn't like taking any attacks.

Well realistically mollux will only be used in the rain and terrakion is a mon that really should be threatening it. Also if hurricane and thunder are allowed that's most likely 4 120 bp moves Which could make a scarfed set viable and that would out speed a non scarfed terrakion. Also hurricane would take away From us looking to poison stab which is also why I think venoshock is a very good idea as it is very powerful if given proper support and could allow us to not have to rely on other powerful moves like hurricane and thunder

 

[capefeather]

People seem to have misunderstood my last post. When I asked why it was in Controversial, I meant that as the simple fact that no one had posted in opposition to it. Thus, it would have been better staying in Pending or even Allowed if Deck Knight felt he heard everything on it (which I guess he didn't). I suppose now its Controversial status is justified, but all in all, the whole point was to rekindle discussion on Hurricane for people who happened to disagree :P

I'm also going to bring up Final Gambit again. The main reason for this is that I'm not sure if this would be considered a competitive move on Mollux, and I don't want to go into the movepool stages only to find that it is considered a competitive move and is thus banned because it was never mentioned in the list. I explained why it could be competitive in my first reply to this thread.

 

[LouisCyphre]

This is Hurricane we're talking about. 120 BPA, with the secondary effect of 30% confusion inflicting rate. This means barely guaranteed 2HKOs are just about equal to 15% clean OHKOs. There's the accuracy issue, of course, but with Dry Skin, most people wouldn't bother running it outside of rain. It doesn't really help against the things we're supposed to threaten, and it screws over some threats we want it to flee on sight. So I'm going to go against Hurricane.

If you want to hit Fighting-types hard, just use Mollux's dual-STABs, I'll put in some calcs if no one else does it in 14 hours

Bear in mind that these all swiftly OHKO you, other than Politoed. That should help some.

 

[acausetolead]

Hey, I've been following this CAP with interest and I'm pretty sure this is my first post ever. It's a great Poke design with probably my favorite typing, though I wasn't sold on the stat spread at first. That said, looking at its possible movepool, Mollux has great potential as a unique CAP.

Firstly, I would bet that Acid Spray will more than likely be Mollux's most used move, just for the ability to cause switches, which its typing and ability do so well already. Risking having any special move be effectively "super effective" will cause either many Steels to come in, and hope to avoid a STAB Fire move, or have something fast with any Ground or STAB Rock (forgive the lack of calcs) be weakened enough to the point where any quick special sweeper would KO it. That's mostly theroymoning, but it brings me to my next point of...

Promoting use of Mollux's STABs and giving it limited coverage. I would remove Thunder and Thunderbolt, while only allowing Discharge as its sole Electric move. While Mollux will be great on rain teams, given its type and ability, I would frown on driving it towards being primarily used on rain teams. I see a great niche for Mollux as a rain check in weatherless teams. It still hits Tentacruel and Politoad quite hard, and gives it a decent chance of paralyzing switch ins that would run over Mollux, but not let Mollux run over them with its STABs (Terrakion in particular). It also makes running Discharge a slight risk, as you'd much rather burn or poison Tyranitar.

On that note, I think Solarbeam as its only grass move is advisable. It gives it a role on or against sun teams as a offensive presence against Rock, Ground, and Water types, but limits its longevity. Poli, Hippo, and TTar are exceptions, but as Poli can't do much to Mollux, and Hippo and TTar are meant to be counters, I see that as totally fine.

I don't think any water moves should be allowed. Mollux already has a great way to offensively spam burns in Lava Plume (I do have to say it's thematically fitting) to likely threats, and Scald would lean it even more toward it being used primarily on rain teams and as a threat to TTar, Terrakion, and Grounds.

Bug Buzz, Signal Beam, Earth Power and Mud Bomb I could go either way on. Without calcs, I'd say allow Buzz and Signal, but keep Earth Power and Mud Bomb off, if not to keep Heatran as a check, then to limit its choices in a Hidden Power. HP Ground would be useful alongside Solarbeam in the sun to hit Tentacruel super effectively, while HP Fighting gives you that great 2HKO on TTar after an Acid Spray. Bug Buzz will also give a decent hit on TTar (though not 2KOing in sand), but any way you slice it, Mollux will suffer hard from 4 Slot Syndrome. I kept Signal just as flavor, as it's worse than Buzz in almost every way for Mollux.

I already think Mollux will do just fine in rain, and against Fighting to justify Hurricane(not to mention LouisCypher's calcs noting that it's almost useless). As well, Weather Ball goes against my idea that Mollux should focus on its STABs and ability to force switches. Having a 100 BP (or more) doesn't jive with TTar as a threat and Poli as threatened. Looking back, maybe Charge Beam would be a decent alternative Electric move, not requiring a switch and improving Mollux's already impressive Sp. Att stat.

I'm in favor in giving it every STAB attack in the book, save for Firey Dance. More options are great. Eruption would be very decent in non-weather, Lava Plume has a great chance to neuter some dangerous pokes, and Fire Blast/Flamethrower are perfect for sun and just hitting hard in general. Sludge Bomb and Sludge Wave are strong hitting STABs in rain and Venoshock I can see doing wonders with Toxic Spike support and Mollux's ease in causing switches. Flame Charge might even be useful, and make Mollux a offensive threat on par with Heatran.

Well, that's my take on things. I hope you like it, Smogon. I wrote that instead of some essays I was supposed to do.

 

[ZhengTann]

promise made, promise kept

Bear in mind that these all swiftly OHKO you, other than Politoed. That should help some.

When I mentioned 15% clean OHKOs, I was factoring in the confusion hax, meaning a hard counter like Landorus or Terrakion now has to be wary of switching in to a potential confused suicide. You might say this is Pokemon, we all take statistical risks, but I say allowing Hurricane has the potential of tying the bum hairs of our threat list, something I, for one, disagree with.

So I promised STAB calcs against Fighting-mons, and here they are. I'll have to make clear my calc conditions, though, something I had not done in my previous posts - my attacking Timid Mollux has maxed EV/IV and is holding Leftovers ever since my first calcs in this thread. So here goes:-

Hide

Sludge Wave against Standard OU Terrakion: 26.23 - 31.17% (guaranteed 4HKO)
Sludge Wave against 252/0 OU Dual Screen Virizion: 65.28 - 76.68% (guaranteed 2HKO with SR)
Sludge Wave against 120/136 OU Bulk Up Conkeldurr: 48.81 - 57.48% (48.44% chance to 2HKO, 94.53% after SR)
Sludge Wave against 236/212 OU Bulk Up Breloom: 100 - 118.75% (guaranteed OHKO)
Sludge Wave against 0/4 OU Infernape: 69.96 - 82.93% (guaranteed 2HKO)
Sludge Wave against Standard OU Mienshao: 96.67 - 114.39% (guaranteed OHKO after entry hazards)
Sludge Wave against 4/0 OU Dragon Dance Scrafty: 51.1 - 60.66% (guaranteed 2HKO)
Sludge Wave against 252/248 OU Bulk Up Scrafty: 30.83 - 36.82% (guaranteed 4HKO)
Flamethrower in the rain against 244/0 OU Bulk Up Toxicroak: 37.5 - 44.29% (possible 4HKO factoring in Dry Skin healing)
Flamethrower in the rain against Standard OU Lucario: 74.46 - 87.94% (guaranteed 2HKO)

Take note that unless Fighting-types invest heavily in defenses, they will be severely crippled by your run-of-the-mill 95 BPA STABs from Mollux. Even then their best weapons, the Fighting STAB moves do pittance against Mollux. Other than Terrakion, the only Fighting-type that can wall Mollux is Toxicroak (who still gets 2HKO'ed by Fire Blast even in rain). I think we've done a good enough number against most Fighting-types in our own right to warrant going against Hurricane.