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TGMD - solid team, and thanks for owning the Dark Horse challenge with it ;)
The fact that you depend on Sand Rush Stoutland and Ice Shard from Mamoswine to revenge-kill many threats, it's understandable that QD Volcarona and RPolish Genesect can have its way with this team. There's an easy solution that I like to suggest frequent on specially-defensive Rotom-W: Thunder Wave > Will-O-Wisp. T-Wave just makes sense, when you consider that mons that Rotom-W is supposed to stop - speedy special sweepers! Paralyzing QD Volcarona and RP Genesect would instantly ruin their sweep.
It seems like you're experimenting with your Latias spread; may I suggest 132 HP / 124 SpA / 252 Spe? This allows you to OHKO Keldeo after SR / sand damage (88.7% of the time ;x). Even Max HP Venusuar is OHKOed by Psyshock after SR damage. You have the Speed to check dangerous threats like Thundurus-T, Keldeo, and Terrakion. Even more, you still got dat bulk! You wont be 2-shotting Blissey after sand & SR did with your Modest Latias, but you really need the Speed. Even with the current spread you can 2HKO Blissey coming in at 82% (with SR + sand), so that's plenty of pressure imo.
Thanks for sharing your team, The Great Mighty Doom!
Hey man great team. You've beaten me many times with it, and that's just to be expected of you. One thing I think is worth mentioning and that is changing Latias to Reuniclus
I know that might seem strange but late game can be challenging if stout and sand are beaten. It also helps with your terrakion weakness. The only thing I see it not helping with that much is breloom(after +2 it has a high chance of ko'ing with bseed) but if you don't wanna try it I completely understand. It's a solid team and I look forward to seeing more teams from you in the future!
...192 Spe EVs. Then, slap on a Timid nature. Bam. Now you outspeed Garchomp and below. I can't even count on my fingers how many things you outspeed with this. A few examples include: Landorus-I, Thundurus-T, Garchomp, Jirachi, Celebi, Deoxys-D, Genesect, Timid Hydreigon, Jolly Haxorus, etc. You do lose a bit of firepower because of the change from Modest as well as 16 Spe (or SAtk) EVs, but with all the Pokemon you outspeed, it's definitely worth it.
(F) @ Life Orb
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 152 HP / 164 SAtk / 192 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Draco Meteor
- Psyshock
- Surf
- Recover
Next up: Stoutland. I know the extra power from Adamant is extremely appreciated, but aJolly nature...176 Speed EVs allow you to outspeed up to Scarf Latios (which is really the most relevant fastest Scarf). This gives you 80 HP EVs, making Stoutland even more difficult to take down. Oh and you also outspeed the Jolly Breloom speed tier outside of Sandstorm.
(F) @ Choice Band
Trait: Sand Rush
EVs: 80 HP / 252 Atk / 176 Spd
Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Frustration
- Pursuit
- Wild Charge
- Superpower
Next, I'm going to suggest 8 Spe EVs on Rotom-W. They simply allow you to outspeed standard Bulk Up Toxicroak and Will-O-Wisp or Volt Switch before they Substitute.
...One thing you can try is Specially Defensive Hippowdownwith Stone Edge ...Here's a calc just to show Hippo's amazing special walling capabilities: 252 SpAtk Life Orb Volcarona Fire Blast vs 252 HP/252 SpDef Hippowdon (+SpDef) : 55.24% - 65.24% (2 hits to KO)
(M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Sand Stream
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SDef
Careful Nature (+SDef, -SAtk)
- Stone Edge
- Earthquake
- Stealth Rock
- Slack Off
And with that, I conclude this lengthly rate! I hope I helped! :] Oh, and congrats on the success!
Hey Gimmick, I'm going to run max speed on Latias, because the main draw to running more speed than my current set has is to outspeed Terrakion, Keldeo, Virizion etc. It's mainly to mitigate Terrakion and Keldeo problems, and those really are the main pokemon I'm really trying to outspeed by bumping up those speed EVs.
I don't really need Jolly Stoutland, I lose alot of damage output and I really do miss out on quite a few OHKOs (iirc), in return for outspeeding Scarf Terrakion who is countered by Hippowdon and not at all a threat to my team, Scarf latios who is weak and can be played around with ease, etc.
Rotom-W never stays in on Toxicroak, going for Will-O-Wisp is an unnecessary risk when I have a perfectly good Hippowdon to switch to, If I went for the Will-O-Wisp and they ended up being a Swords Dance set then they get up a free Swords Dance and if I miss again it's probably gg. Volt Switching means I risk taking a Cross Chop, and again: it's an unnecessary risk. Slow Volt Switches actually help Rotom-W perform it's role of being a defensive pivot, and overall I'd rather just keep the extra 2 points of Special Attack.
I really need Hippowdon's Defense close to max, without it I simply can't check the threats I need to check. My biggest playstyle weakness is hyper offense, which is usually overloaded with prominent Physical threats, if I were to use Specially Defensive Hippowdon I'd be far too weak to HO teams. Thanks for the rate :)
Gamester peaked number one with a very similar team (hippo/lati@s/band stout/sleep talk specs mag) 6ish months ago. I love comparing my teams to similar ones, so heree http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3468353 I'm not recommending you change his sets/mons to his, i'm just showing you another similar work.
Hey Valentine, I've seen that team before and I believe Gamester used Scarf Magnezone then changed it to Scarf Magneton, rather than Specs, he also used Specs Latios, Shaymin (I think he changed it to Amoongus, idr), and TTar for Dual weather. Our teams are obviously going to be similiar because we used the same core, but outside of that core there are no similarities, so I wouldn't call the very similiar, lol. Thanks for reading this rmt and taking the time to comment :)
Double Dance terrakion is situational, if it needs to outspeed it can rp, if it needs to ko it can sd.
For example, against stall it'll likely sd, against HO it'll likely RP.
Usually late game it only needs one to put the game in the bag.
Hey Finch, I know how Double Dance Terrakion works and I'm always sure to save something that can handle it at +2 Attack as well as something that can handle it at +2 speed, I've came across about 5 of these Terrakion's since I started using this team and I've never been swept by one. I should have explained a few of the other reasons for why I won't be using Scizor; it can't break through walls, I lose my Sub Toxic Gliscor check, and I'll be much weaker to the likes of dragons, therians etc.
TGMD - solid team, and thanks for owning the Dark Horse challenge with it ;)
The fact that you depend on Sand Rush Stoutland and Ice Shard from Mamoswine to revenge-kill many threats, it's understandable that QD Volcarona and RPolish Genesect can have its way with this team. There's an easy solution that I like to suggest frequent on specially-defensive Rotom-W: Thunder Wave > Will-O-Wisp. T-Wave just makes sense, when you consider that mons that Rotom-W is supposed to stop - speedy special sweepers! Paralyzing QD Volcarona and RP Genesect would instantly ruin their sweep.
It seems like you're experimenting with your Latias spread; may I suggest 132 HP / 124 SpA / 252 Spe? This allows you to OHKO Keldeo after SR / sand damage (88.7% of the time ;x). Even Max HP Venusuar is OHKOed by Psyshock after SR damage. You have the Speed to check dangerous threats like Thundurus-T, Keldeo, and Terrakion. Even more, you still got dat bulk! You wont be 2-shotting Blissey after sand & SR did with your Modest Latias, but you really need the Speed. Even with the current spread you can 2HKO Blissey coming in at 82% (with SR + sand), so that's plenty of pressure imo.
Thanks for sharing your team, The Great Mighty Doom!
Hey Pocket, as much as I hate Will-O-Wisp's miss rate, it can be incredibly helpful, it allows Rotom-W to take hits comfortably from both sides of the spectrum and it really helps me wear down some of the pokemon that I'd have mass amounts of trouble with otherwise. But being able to check non Sub / Chesto Resto variants of Volcarona without having to do something elaborate would be amazing. I'll definitely test it out.
That EV spread looks good, I'll test it out, do a few other relevant calcs, and see how it goes. Thanks for the rate :)
Hey man great team. You've beaten me many times with it, and that's just to be expected of you. One thing I think is worth mentioning and that is changing Latias to Reuniclus
I know that might seem strange but late game can be challenging if stout and sand are beaten. It also helps with your terrakion weakness. The only thing I see it not helping with that much is breloom(after +2 it has a high chance of ko'ing with bseed) but if you don't wanna try it I completely understand. It's a solid team and I look forward to seeing more teams from you in the future!
Hey King, with the change from Latias to Reuniclus; I lose a water resist, sun check, alot of speed etc. Overall, Latias is rather important to this team as it carries important resistances as well as other appealing attributes.
Hey King, with the change from Latias to Reuniclus; I lose a water resist, sun check, alot of speed etc. Overall, Latias is rather important to this team as it carries important resistances as well as other appealing attributes.
You are right in a sense HOWEVER I feel as though setting trick room up against sun teams is extremely likely especially when you have killed their priority user. You can use focus sash and you'll be able to beat any set up sweeper on sun like growth venusaur. Also, aren't you already taking care of a water resist with Rotom-w? Just a thought. But your team is very successful without reuniclus so don't mind me haha
You are right in a sense HOWEVER I feel as though setting trick room up against sun teams is extremely likely especially when you have killed their priority user. You can use focus sash and you'll be able to beat any set up sweeper on sun like growth venusaur. Also, aren't you already taking care of a water resist with Rotom-w? Just a thought. But your team is very successful without reuniclus so don't mind me haha
Any decent BW2 OU team (aside from hyper offensive teams) needs at least two Water resistances to avoid being completely demolished by Rain teams. With the re-rising popularity of powerful Rain abusers such as Specs Politoed, LO Starmie, Specs/LO Keldeo, Specs/LO Latios, etc., a team can never be too prepared for strong Water-type attacks coming their way. Without a specially defensive Tyranitar to rely on, Doom's team requires both SDef Rotom-W (a defensive answer to the above threats) and LO Latias (an offensive answer) to avoid losing outright to Rain offense. Sun is more easy for Doom to check, considering he has both Hippowdon and Latias for Sun teams to reckon with, as well as Pursuit Stoutland to catch Ninetales off-guard and rack up damage. I understand where you're coming from when you suggest Reuniclus; however, it's not a great fit for Doom's team.
You are right in a sense HOWEVER I feel as though setting trick room up against sun teams is extremely likely especially when you have killed their priority user. You can use focus sash and you'll be able to beat any set up sweeper on sun like growth venusaur. Also, aren't you already taking care of a water resist with Rotom-w? Just a thought. But your team is very successful without reuniclus so don't mind me haha
Any decent BW2 OU team (aside from hyper offensive teams) needs at least two Water resistances to avoid being completely demolished by Rain teams. With the re-rising popularity of powerful Rain abusers such as Specs Politoed, LO Starmie, Specs/LO Keldeo, Specs/LO Latios, etc., a team can never be too prepared for strong Water-type attacks coming their way. Without a specially defensive Tyranitar to rely on, Doom's team requires both SDef Rotom-W (a defensive answer to the above threats) and LO Latias (an offensive answer) to avoid losing outright to Rain offense. Sun is more easy for Doom to check, considering he has both Hippowdon and Latias for Sun teams to reckon with, as well as Pursuit Stoutland to catch Ninetales off-guard and rack up damage. I understand where you're coming from when you suggest Reuniclus; however, it's not a great fit for Doom's team.
Magnezone seems to MAGNify your fighting weakness, so why don't you try a trapper that has a fighting resist? Gothitelle gives Genesect an attack boost so rock polish genesect is a lot less threatening if it switches in after you revenge something.
Gothitelle (F) @ Choice Specs
Trait: Shadow Tag
EVs: 80 HP / 252 SAtk / 176 Spd
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk) IVs: 2 Atk / 30 SAtk / 30 Spd
- Psyshock
- Sleep Talk
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Energy Ball / Signal Beam / Trick
You outspeed Rotom-W with this EV spread, but if you feel it isnt a problem you can definitely make it bulkier, and give it signal beam/Shadow ball (for celebi/tyranitar) or even trick to cripple walls. It also takes 2 CC from LO Terrakion (although with rocks and sand it's always a 2hko :[). If you let terrakion kill something you can revenge it with Gothitelle. LO stone edge does a maximum of 86% so you always live even with rocks up barring a crit.
Any decent BW2 OU team (aside from hyper offensive teams) needs at least two Water resistances to avoid being completely demolished by Rain teams. With the re-rising popularity of powerful Rain abusers such as Specs Politoed, LO Starmie, Specs/LO Keldeo, Specs/LO Latios, etc., a team can never be too prepared for strong Water-type attacks coming their way. Without a specially defensive Tyranitar to rely on, Doom's team requires both SDef Rotom-W (a defensive answer to the above threats) and LO Latias (an offensive answer) to avoid losing outright to Rain offense. Sun is more easy for Doom to check, considering he has both Hippowdon and Latias for Sun teams to reckon with, as well as Pursuit Stoutland to catch Ninetales off-guard and rack up damage. I understand where you're coming from when you suggest Reuniclus; however, it's not a great fit for Doom's team.
Your point overpowers mine. Nothing I can really say, other than I overlooked one of the biggest threats in the metagame. I should have known this too because I ran an extremely heavy rain offense team, so thanks for pointing this out to me.
Sorry doom, I'll try to be more helpful in the future.
Magnezone seems to MAGNify your fighting weakness, so why don't you try a trapper that has a fighting resist? Gothitelle gives Genesect an attack boost so rock polish genesect is a lot less threatening if it switches in after you revenge something.
Gothitelle (F) @ Choice Specs
Trait: Shadow Tag
EVs: 80 HP / 252 SAtk / 176 Spd
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk) IVs: 2 Atk / 30 SAtk / 30 Spd
- Psyshock
- Sleep Talk
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Energy Ball / Signal Beam / Trick
You outspeed Rotom-W with this EV spread, but if you feel it isnt a problem you can definitely make it bulkier, and give it signal beam/Shadow ball (for celebi/tyranitar) or even trick to cripple walls. It also takes 2 CC from LO Terrakion (although with rocks and sand it's always a 2hko :[). If you let terrakion kill something you can revenge it with Gothitelle. LO stone edge does a maximum of 86% so you always live even with rocks up barring a crit.
Hey Chimpakt, Gothitelle is definetly an interesting idea, I gain a fighting resist and the ability to lower the threat level of the likes of Terrakion as well as a few others. However, I lose a lot as well; I lose my double Volt Switch core, I lose the ability to 2HKO Ferrothorn in the rain (I actually have a 0.07% chance, lol), I lose quite a lot of power, I lose a dragon resist, Scizor becomes a whole lot more threatening, etc. Overall, Magnezone's role is to trap steel types, and the most efficient and effective steel trapper is Magnezone. I definitely will give Gothitelle a good test though, it does give my team a few advantages it currently lacks. Thanks for the rate :)
Your point overpowers mine. Nothing I can really say, other than I overlooked one of the biggest threats in the metagame. I should have known this too because I ran an extremely heavy rain offense team, so thanks for pointing this out to me.
Sorry doom, I'll try to be more helpful in the future.
Sorry for the double post, but after testing I've made a few changes. White Symphoni's suggestion of max speed Latias has been implemented, as well as PenguinX's spread suggestion. Terrakion has been removed from the threatlist, because now that Latias can outspeed it, it's just not enough of a threat anymore.
Pocket's suggestion of Thunder Wave Rotom-W has also been implemented, it has really helped with Genesect and Volcarona. It also helps against the likes of Latios, and although Gastrodon is now even more of a pain than ever: Thunder Wave's pros outways its cons. I'm still testing Gothitelle as well as a few other Latias spreads, but for now this is the version of the team that works the best. Thanks to everyone for all their helpful rates so far :)
Hai Doom :] alright so I've really only got 1 minor thing, that is arguably more about preference than they are design flaw. The change is pretty much how I dislike wild charge on Stout. Having used Stout extensively even in BW1, I can confidently say that hazards are his worst enemy. When hes brought in with the sole purpose of revenging, compounding the damage with wild charge hurts my heart. Furthermore, it's really only used for Politoed and I guess Tentacruel. And I do believe (although I haven't calced so I could be wrong) that return nets all the same 2HKOs as wild charge. If a politoed switches into wild charge, you will still outspeed them even in rain, rendering (in my ever so humble opinion) wild charge moot. As to what gets put over this, there isnt much. You really don't need either of the fangs, thanks to hippowdown handling dragons and magnezone covering steels, so, as odd as ridiculous as this is going to sound, I would atleast give Crunch a try to slightly alleviate your celebi weakness (which is quite large, as you have pointed out) and also lets you OHKO Gengar, Latios, etc. in case somebody is feeling risky and decides they want to stay in. It's a silly suggestion, but its the best I got. You asked for a rate, so there it is! I didn't just want to show up and say "nice team, no suggestions"
thats all I have to say. Awesome team. i used a very similar one in bw1 that Rip made and stout is a powerful monster. After reviewing my post, I apologize for my extensive use of commas and parenthesis. Take my suggestion for what its worth, relatively nothing. I'm just a silly man. Have a nice day homie :]]
Hai Doom :] alright so I've really only got 1 minor thing, that is arguably more about preference than they are design flaw. The change is pretty much how I dislike wild charge on Stout. Having used Stout extensively even in BW1, I can confidently say that hazards are his worst enemy. When hes brought in with the sole purpose of revenging, compounding the damage with wild charge hurts my heart. Furthermore, it's really only used for Politoed and I guess Tentacruel. And I do believe (although I haven't calced so I could be wrong) that return nets all the same 2HKOs as wild charge. If a politoed switches into wild charge, you will still outspeed them even in rain, rendering (in my ever so humble opinion) wild charge moot. As to what gets put over this, there isnt much. You really don't need either of the fangs, thanks to hippowdown handling dragons and magnezone covering steels, so, as odd as ridiculous as this is going to sound, I would atleast give Crunch a try to slightly alleviate your celebi weakness (which is quite large, as you have pointed out) and also lets you OHKO Gengar, Latios, etc. in case somebody is feeling risky and decides they want to stay in. It's a silly suggestion, but its the best I got. You asked for a rate, so there it is! I didn't just want to show up and say "nice team, no suggestions"
thats all I have to say. Awesome team. i used a very similar one in bw1 that Rip made and stout is a powerful monster. After reviewing my post, I apologize for my extensive use of commas and parenthesis. Take my suggestion for what its worth, relatively nothing. I'm just a silly man. Have a nice day homie :]]
Hey Ducktux, although Wild Charge on Stoutland causes recoil shenanigans, it allows me to hit Jellicent and Skarmory (can be trapped by Zone, but Shed Shell variants are a big threat.) You could argue Crunch 2HKOs Jellicent as well, but Return dosen't get the guarenteed OHKO on alot of pokemon weak to Electric (4/0 Politoed, Keldeo, Tornadus-T, etc.) Although most of those pokemon are usually OHKOd with Return after Stealth Rock, I can't always get Stealth Rock up and overall Crunch does most of the things Pursuit does. For most people it's a preference thing and I prefer Wild Charge. Thanks for the rate :)
Really doom, not much I can say. This is a great team and I really like it a lot! This is one of the more original teams around lately, and I really have no suggestions for it. The only thing you could probably change up a little is Fire Fang over Wild Charge on Stoutland to help vs Gensect and other incoming steels, but otherwise great team.
Really doom, not much I can say. This is a great team and I really like it a lot! This is one of the more original teams around lately, and I really have no suggestions for it. The only thing you could probably change up a little is Fire Fang over Wild Charge on Stoutland to help vs Gensect and other incoming steels, but otherwise great team.
Hey PDC, I prefer Wild Charge on Stoutland, because Stoutland outspeeds and 2HKOs Genesect after Stealth Rocks, while it can't OHKO in return, and I have magnezone for other steels. I like being able to touch Jellicent, and beating Shed Shell Skarmory (most common Shed Shell user susceptible to Magnezone) is nice too. Wild Charge also provides the guarenteed OHKO on the likes of 0/0 Politoed, Keldeo, Tornadus-T etc without Stealth Rocks, and it provides neutral, spammable Coverage, whereas Fire Fang is incredibly weak, and will almost definitely force Stoutland to switch out immediately after using it. Overall, it's really just a preference thing. Thanks for the rate :)
