Pokémon BW2 In-game Tier List Mark II [See Post #840]

[dbcb]

I really think Riolu should be top tier. I haven't quite finished the game yet but I found him relatively quickly. 5% sounds low but it isn't "shaking grass 5%" plus it allows you to grind your starter up at the same time to make quick work of Cheren.

He is good for at least one kill against cheren with Counter or he can finish them off with quick attack. After Cheren you get return, force palm at 16, mine evolved at 17 so I had a steel type to deal with with the poison gym making it a joke.

Other early game moves that were invaluable were dig, and rock slide.

He is incredibly easy to level up once you get force palm because you easily one shot the Audinos that appear.

I will detail the whole team with the official format and such but I see no reason it shoulded be top tier, not just high tear. Only thing holding it back is its 5% capture rate which isn't a big deal because it is a perfect time to grind your starter to respectability. Also, you don't really have to worry about its nature either. Due to his balance stat line, any drop in any stat really isnt a big deal. If you get a - attack, you can go more heavy with the special attacks and vice versa. Only thing I wouldn't want to minus speed most likely.

 

[TM13IceBeam]

luke's biggest issue is a lack of actually decent stab midgame, having to keep with force palm until late in the game when he finally gets aura sphere/close combat. your best move is pretty much return and lucario's only saving grace is L37 swords dance.

chances are that you won't get lucario by roxie (i know mine took after burgh to evolve), although if you really want to get technical, you could just walk around the area for 5 hours and get lucario by cheren.

lucario also arguably does not want to have his attack dropped because he will be using physical attacks for most of the game (or if you decide to relearn dark pulse and teach psychic, but those two are still very situational and DP is bad for plasma fights). his best form of offense before CC/Aura is sd + return, so you want his attack as good as possible...

 

[Blazi]

Force Palm, Return and Dig were just fine for Lucario until the end of the game imo. He ohko'd a lot, and if he didn't, he still has an amazing typing to take some hits. Of course, he became a monster when he had Aura Sphere / CC, but he was already amazing during the entire game. Definitely High tier, maybe Top.

During my playthrough I used Serperior, Golduck, Lucario, Magmar and Scrafty.

Serperior: was very fast and could take some hits, but couldn't actually hit back. Leaf Blade + Return has a bit of a shitty coverage, especially with those poison and steel pokemon from Team Plasma. Coil was nice though, but setting up each battle takes too much time. Mid tier imo.

Golduck: actually surprised me. As a Psyduck he was OK at best and became shitty at mid 20s. As a Golduck he was very fast and could actually do a lot of damage. Coverage was amazing with Surf, Ice Beam and Psychic. Upper Mid.

Magmar: did fine. I didn't evolve it, and because of Eviolite he could take hits a bit better. Coverage was OK, mostly fire attacks and occasional coverage move like Psychic. He was very frail as a Magby and evolution was a bit late. Lower Mid.

Scrafty: I had used him in my White run and he was a beast. He was somehow a bit dissapointing though, and didn't OHKO'd as much as I wanted. He could take hits though and has an amazing movepool. He's also amazing against the Elite 4. High or Top.

 

[Brood_Star]

You can just do one complete run through the Mix Battle Subway (having your partner carry you) and grab a Brick Break TM to fix the Riolu/Force Palm problem. It's not efficient, but it's not like you're grinding wild pokes and it may be something you'd be interested in doing anyways. I also taught him Ice Punch since I had no one else to dump shards on, but I rarely ever use it and Flying types can still be dealt with by Return or Rock Slide.

Does anyone else find that there's an abundance of annoying types in this game? In BW, I'd always get frustrated using Sigilyph because I'd run into Scraftys and Sandiles, and I'd assume Electric types like Electivire get similar treatment because of the somewhat common ground type. I'd think that stops a lot of pokemon in their tracks even though they have good stats.

 

[dbcb]

luke's biggest issue is a lack of actually decent stab midgame, having to keep with force palm until late in the game when he finally gets aura sphere/close combat. your best move is pretty much return and lucario's only saving grace is L37 swords dance.

chances are that you won't get lucario by roxie (i know mine took after burgh to evolve), although if you really want to get technical, you could just walk around the area for 5 hours and get lucario by cheren.

lucario also arguably does not want to have his attack dropped because he will be using physical attacks for most of the game (or if you decide to relearn dark pulse and teach psychic, but those two are still very situational and DP is bad for plasma fights). his best form of offense before CC/Aura is sd + return, so you want his attack as good as possible...

I have found Lukes Force Palm more than adequate so far, especially combined with Return, Dig, and Rock Tomb/slide. The random parahax has been appreciated as well.

Mine evolved at 17 before the poison gym personally.

 

[inanimate blob]

Force Palm, Return and Dig were just fine for Lucario until the end of the game imo. He ohko'd a lot, and if he didn't, he still has an amazing typing to take some hits. Of course, he became a monster when he had Aura Sphere / CC, but he was already amazing during the entire game. Definitely High tier, maybe Top.

During my playthrough I used Serperior, Golduck, Lucario, Magmar and Scrafty.

Serperior: was very fast and could take some hits, but couldn't actually hit back. Leaf Blade + Return has a bit of a shitty coverage, especially with those poison and steel pokemon from Team Plasma. Coil was nice though, but setting up each battle takes too much time. Mid tier imo.

Golduck: actually surprised me. As a Psyduck he was OK at best and became shitty at mid 20s. As a Golduck he was very fast and could actually do a lot of damage. Coverage was amazing with Surf, Ice Beam and Psychic. Upper Mid.

Magmar: did fine. I didn't evolve it, and because of Eviolite he could take hits a bit better. Coverage was OK, mostly fire attacks and occasional coverage move like Psychic. He was very frail as a Magby and evolution was a bit late. Lower Mid.

Scrafty: I had used him in my White run and he was a beast. He was somehow a bit dissapointing though, and didn't OHKO'd as much as I wanted. He could take hits though and has an amazing movepool. He's also amazing against the Elite 4. High or Top.

The only difference I had in my ingame run through was with the Snivy line. Eviolite comes early, and you can actually take huge hits with it (Elesa's Zebstrika was unable to 3hko my Servine). Cheren was easy, and I had other Pokémon for Roxie and Burgh. It took out a Pokémon each at Elesa and Drayden, and completely solo'd Clay and Marlon. Even against Team Plasma, I was still able to take down countless Watchogs and other Poison types using Return/Leaf Blade, and being able to use Giga Drain was so so helpful for healing. I would say Upper Mid or High for Snivy this time.

 

[Count Serperior]

Serperior is not half bad, especially if you know what you're doing.

I tutored mine Aqua Tail, along with Leaf Blade and Return/Leech Seed you smack everything hard.
A Coil and a few MooMoo Milks make him sweep easily. I even taught him Dragon Tail over Return and set up on Iris' LO Sheer Force Fire punching Druddigon!

Early on Eviolite + Leech Seed + Growth accomplished the same. My Servine managed to solo Challenge mode Roxie and help destroy Burgh hehehe

I may be a bit biased since it's my fav Pokemon, but honestly even I was surprised at what he managed to pull off.

I would put him in Mid - Upper Mid. He's not the best by far but he IS good if you know what you're doing.

(although not a Pokemon newbies should be trying to use against the Gym Leaders here. He's got bad match ups, especially on Challenge mode where practically every gym's extra addition is SE on Grass)

---
EDIT:
Aqua Tail is used to, as TM13IceBeam said, stay on the playing field and keep your Coils. It may have redundant coverage on Rock/Ground but it provides you with a SE hit on Fire types and is Serperior's best move to hit Steel types. With Leaf Blade/Aqua Tail/Return you hit practically everything.
---

 

[Antihaxxer]

The only problem of Aqua Tail is the redundant coverage with Leaf Blade / Giga Drain : Rock, Ground pokemon are already covered !

 

[TM13IceBeam]

aqua tail's main purpose is to hit fire types? this is important if say, you have a couple of coils under your belt and you don't want to lose them, you can at least smack them hard and even kill them.

on the topic of luke, i'm not saying that force palm is bad, i just find that generally most of the time i end up spamming return or dark pulse, and rarely force palm. my lucario didn't even get to learn CC at the end (force palm was replaced by psychic at the E4 to deal with Marshall which was promptly replaced by aura sphere after) :/

@Brood: doesn't sigilyph get to air slash past scraggy and sandile? on the topic of sigilyph, it may be better this time round because you also get energy ball pre-E4, allowing for sigilyph to beat ground/rock types.

 

[Antihaxxer]

I've never had problems with rock types with Sigilyph (and most of them have Sturdy, so you already 2HKO with Air Slash / Psychic, Energy Ball is just a small addition)

Aqua Tail provides only better coverage on Fire Type (and a neutral coverage with Steel Type), Return is far better giving decent coverage against Grass & Dragon type. It's also a bit more powerful and it misses less. There are many grass type pokemon in B1W1 and a gym with Dragon pokemon. Steel/Fire type ? Not so much

Return > Aqua Tail on Snivy

 

[Lucchini]

on the topic of luke, i'm not saying that force palm is bad, i just find that generally most of the time i end up spamming return or dark pulse, and rarely force palm. my lucario didn't even get to learn CC at the end (force palm was replaced by psychic at the E4 to deal with Marshall which was promptly replaced by aura sphere after) :/

Curious; how was Psychic enough to beat Marshall? And if you set up with Calm Mind, how did you survive Marshall's super effective moves? Unless Lucario got revenge kills, in which case it's easier to see how he was useful there.

 

[Master of the Six Kings]

I found Elekid to be somewhat annoying, in the very least. Early on he was mostly spamming the crap out of TWave, Low Kick is useless earlygame since it 4HKOs everything, and not mentioning how stupidly difficult it is to switch in Elekid due to its pretty bad bulk. Not to say that its bad though: its extremely fast compared to other things you have at that point, and the power is adequate too. It just blows at durability which makes it difficult to switch in >.>"

I do agree, but that's what keeps t out of the highest tier IMO. It absolutely obliterates the game past the 6th gym, and has great neautral coverage of everything in the E3 (the only trouble i had was with the Fighting type gym because i screwed up and didn't teach him T-bolt beforehand. TPunch just doesn't cut it with those high def stats).

I'm interested to see what everyone feels the best ingame psychic type is. My team really needed one, but i couldn't get my head around Mush or Gothitelle (no access to Reuinclus in White 2 obv) and Sigilyph and Swoobat i kept missing KOs with and getting killed by Rock moves.

 

[The Cicada]

how do u guys get max happiness so early? my azurils always evolve 1 lvl too late for aqua tail.

Also, any1 tested seviper? Seems like a mixed powerhouse to me, and imma use it next playthrough.

 

[SapphSabre777]

Um...grinding, Cicada? B/W 2 almost requires you to grind to a certain extent, so it wouldn't surprise me if some people grind to the point where their Pokemon evolve via Max Happiness.

 

[R_N]

Um...grinding, Cicada? B/W 2 almost requires you to grind to a certain extent, so it wouldn't surprise me if some people grind to the point where their Pokemon evolve via Max Happiness.

I can't say I ever grinded anything beyond an additional level across the team in BW2 (I think it was at Mistralton since I felt compelled to run into all the rustling grass as I was going over the planks)
I didn't even use the Lucky Egg, but I still ended up at the e4 with levels nearly matching them

 

[Brood_Star]

I've got an egregiously bad memory so I can't remember, but Sigilyph has the tools to get past Scrafty. My main gripe is just not wanting to run pokes that require constant switching or babying against certain areas in the game due to type resistances.

For example, I've got Volcarona on my current playthrough and trying to get past rock/ftg/fly/ghost infested areas was just a nuisance. Signal Beam was good enough to get past certain counters like waters but Fire Spin just didn't have enough power even off ridiculous SpA. I started trying to level it up in the area with Bianca double battles but Gigaliths and whatever flying types were posing too much of a problem that I just ended up spamming fly to avoid death to get some much needed levels. It's now speeding through the game once I got access to psychic though (which is much needed coverage for the Magby line too).

Maybe I'm just lazy for not grinding enough though. If I were to tier it, Mid-High with more emphasis on High.

 

[TM13IceBeam]

Curious; how was Psychic enough to beat Marshall? And if you set up with Calm Mind, how did you survive Marshall's super effective moves? Unless Lucario got revenge kills, in which case it's easier to see how he was useful there.

it's not exactly to beat marshall but to make lucario more useful against him (his moveset was return/swords dance/dark pulse/force palm), which is somewhat ok considering lucario outruns conkeldurr and can either cripple him or burn marshall's full restore. it was more of a filler move that actually did work since he learned Aura Sphere somewhat later during the E4 (i did marshall's battle first) which replaced psychic. i'm pretty sure for that specific instance, psychic would be better than force palm...

i can say that you don't exactly need grinding to beat the game (when i beat iris my highest was something like a L56 Samurott), just decent enough tactics (and maybe some luck, haxorus suicided with DD when he could've outraged me to death). the E4 was surprisingly easier than expected (went in with 100 hyper potions and 50 revives out of paranoia, came out with 90 and 45 respectively, my team was darm/samurott/luke/mienshao/mag/braviary).

best psychic type ingame is probably starmie, although its not for the power but its more of the coverage (boltbeam + surf hits everything for neutral, psychic is just icing on the cake).

@anti: i'd actually rather have serperior not walled by anything than risk being walled with stronger yet non-effective attacks. in fact, the only reason i'd run return over aqua tail is because aqua tail has a ridiculously high cost for shards while return is free.

 

[BdB4445]

it's not exactly to beat marshall but to make lucario more useful against him (his moveset was return/swords dance/dark pulse/force palm), which is somewhat ok considering lucario outruns conkeldurr and can either cripple him or burn marshall's full restore. it was more of a filler move that actually did work since he learned Aura Sphere somewhat later during the E4 (i did marshall's battle first) which replaced psychic. i'm pretty sure for that specific instance, psychic would be better than force palm...

Have you thought about using work up on lucario? That would seem pretty nice for a mixed lucario, but I've never tried it.

Though of course, I would have avoided marshall when using lucario. He doesn't seem too threatening.

 

[TM13IceBeam]

work up replaced swords dance lol

but most of the game was basically swords dance + return spam. never really saw the point in force palm, considering return is stronger most of the time except on opponents weak to fighting (note that sandile and scraggy percentage in team plasma went down, it seems to me that they have more trubbish or sth) dark pulse was useful against random things, but in reality there wasn't really too much use as well. mixcario imo is pretty weak compared to just straight out +2 return obliteration

and yeah, so would i, psychic as i just said was to make my life easier, especially since i was unsure if braviary would be able to sweep and not get smashed by a stone edge in return for his efforts (hint: he did eventually)

 

[Son_of_Shadoo]

I'm interested to see what everyone feels the best ingame psychic type is. My team really needed one, but i couldn't get my head around Mush or Gothitelle (no access to Reuinclus in White 2 obv) and Sigilyph and Swoobat i kept missing KOs with and getting killed by Rock moves.

Take your pick between Espeon, Starmie and Sigilyph. I personally go for Espeon.

 

[Purimpopoie]

I know this might not effect much, but by clearing the first round of the regular Battle Subway, you can get enough points for the evolutionary stones they offer there/at PWT. And since everyone's already using NFE's and stuff, you have a pretty decent chance of clearing it with no troble. I mean, that's how I got my Water Stone for my Vaporeon,

 

[Raikaria]

OK, I manned up and actually ran the game with a Purrloin.

So time for the scatheing opinion.
Purrloin: - Purrloin Tier [Below Bottom. It's so bad IT DESERVES IT'S OWN TIER]
Availability: Instantly, Route 20, about the only redeeming feature.
Stats: Speed. That's it's only benefit. Everything else is below average to awful. It has only Base 50 Attack, and Defenses of 41/37/37, compared to even Patrat with Base 53 Atk, and 45/39/39 defenses. This trend of sucking awfully continues after evolution, where a Base 106 speed would be respectable... if you could do anything with Base 88 offenses, and paper bulk of 64/50/50.
Typing: Pure Dark. This only really comes into play against the Elite 4, where it performs well against Caitlyn and Shauntal, but is hopeless against Grimsly and Marshall.
Movepool: AWFUL. Purrloin starts out with only Scratch for damage, a Base 40 un STAB'ed attack. When Patrat and Lilipup get STAB Tackle, a Base 50, with better bulk, and attack stats. They also learn Bite long before Purrloin gets it's first STAB... Pursuit. Bite > STAB Pursuit in-game. This basically means Purrloin is outclassed at even being a Dark-type by the derps.

It doesn't get better. Purrloin/Liepard mainly learns annoyer moves, but can't pull them off due to being made of paper. It's a struggle to even drag this thing to where it gets a useful STAB, Assurance is Lv 31, and Night Slash, if you somehow get there, is Lv 43.

Oh, and for an extra kick in the teeth this thing learns Nasty Plot with a grand total of 0 special moves in it's level-up movepool, and it's only TM's with a BP of 70 or higher for Special attacks are Shadow Ball, the Un-useable [No Sleep Moves] Dream Eater, and Hyper Beam. YEP.

At least it gets Dark Pulse and Hyper Voice by tutor.

Major Battles: Outclassed by Lilipup in every major fight pre-E4, and even then, Shoutland performs better against Shauntal.
Additional Comments: It's abilities are pretty bad too, Limber is... OK at best, Unburden, you generally don't want to be losing items and you're fast enough, and Prankster... you're fast enough.

This thing is awful, and although it got a *little* better in B/W 2's endgame due to actually making use of Nasty Plot, being made of paper, and having a level up movepool that makes it outclassed at even being a dark type by the Normal-type derps, not to mention nigh untrainable early, makes Purrloin a pokemon to avoid.

 

[King Serperior]

luke's biggest issue is a lack of actually decent stab midgame, having to keep with force palm until late in the game when he finally gets aura sphere/close combat. your best move is pretty much return and lucario's only saving grace is L37 swords dance.

chances are that you won't get lucario by roxie (i know mine took after burgh to evolve), although if you really want to get technical, you could just walk around the area for 5 hours and get lucario by cheren.

Ok, well, having just finished the game with my own Lucario, I have some issues with your thought process.

Granted, I went a MUCH different route than most with Luke, but I found him rather useful from start to finish. In fact, he was my MVP.

My Experiences with Luke:
1). Had a Lv10 Lucario before Cheren. The Quick attack spam was easy to handle as I disliked Counter. Yes, I ran for what felt like hours before Riolu was happy with me, but he was better than most of my other options.

2). I grinded in the Battlle Subway multi train to get 12BP. It was very easy as my partner had mons that outclasses most of the foe's mons. In about an hour, I had enough BP to but Brick Break.

3). I've found Special Luke to be not very good, in my honest opinion.


Disclaimer: I am not here to insult or fight because I can see that your expieriences and mine are opposites, but I just wanted to post my thoughts compared to yours in order to achieve a differnet perspective.

 

[Brood_Star]

Alright, finished E4 and here's my quick informal impressions

Riolu - High-Top
Basically carried me through so many battles. My team composition wasn't great (just picking random stuff that I didn't use in BW), and he basically held everything together. He cleared the last third of the game almost single-handedly, only sitting out on the Marshall battle and he's no slouch in the early game either. I would've had absolutely no chance against Drayden, Marlon and Iris without this guy. Does require resources (5% appearance, low catch rate, happiness evolution with massages, Battle Sub run for Brick Break and optional tutors like Ice Punch, Iron Head and Dark Pulse)

Volcarona - Mid
Wasn't too impressed with just running off Signal Beam for a good 10 levels. Even farmed yellow shards for Giga Drain and hit 59 for QD, but it was much too late to accomplish anything. Used it against most of Marshall but Fire just gets smacked around lategame by EQs, Rock and Water moves. Took the backseat to Riolu and Sandile

Sandile - High-Top
Don't remember too vividly its early game but Crunch/Dig/Rock Tomb was only okay. Krokorok or whatever was absolutely terrible and fell over to the lightest of breezes, but maybe it's because I didn't hand him the eviolite. Moxie's an absolute requirement, but once evolved it took turns wiping anything Lucario didn't since you could just start mashing moves from Poke 1 and clear bad stuff that you'd otherwise have trouble with. Easily wipes the whole Plasma segment with Colress and Ghetsis. Soloed Shauntal and Caitlin just mashing Crunch, and useful in many other areas as well. Notably, against Iris' focus sash Haxorus I sacced Lucario and then Krook came in to kill everything else.

Magby - Mid
Slow start until Magby evolved, then peaked midgame with a monstrous offensive and tanky presence with Magmar Eviolite, but then just got outclassed by everything else once Magmortar came. Monstrous SpA stat, but fire isn't very effective against much, Thunderbolt's too late to hit anything, and no access to Focus Blast. Only saw use to Psychic poison/fighting types and even then as a backup. Almost useless during my E4 run.

Oshawatt - High
I understand it's way better than the other starters and water types, but doesn't feel as broken as starters from other gens. Slow speed, meddling offensives and an unfortunate -def nature meant he was much more mediocre than a water start should be. Still one of the best choices for a bulky water though, and I absolutely needed him to fill in against strong neutral attackers like Throhs and Conkeldurrs, the odd dragon and much needed salvation from Gigaliths and other eq/rock pokes

Gross - Mid-High?
Not much of an opinion here. Even though I leveled him up the most, I didn't feel the need to use him much. Maybe he just comes too late. Zen Headbutt/Meteor Mash/Agility/Thunder or Icepunch has coverage, but unfortunately is not strong enough to sweep a whole team on its own and has to sit out a lot of battles. Shauntal's got a Golurk and no EQ means he can't OHKO Chand, Grimsley isn't great, Marshall's terrible, and Iris is iffy. Maybe useful as a last line of defense, but not jawdropping. Also it's not easy to catch.

 

[cant say]

So I just caught Cobalion, I'm not planning on using it as I've already got a party of 6, only because I thought it wasn't available until post-game for some reason. I imagine it would be pretty handy even though it comes a bit late, even though it's the same time as staryu and everyone loves that. Might try him next playthrough