Little Cup Viability Rankings

[Delver]

Blarajan's post is mine. Cottonee is a solid B teir mon with a notable niche and a few notable flaws. Aipom and Meowth both just lack that extra dimension that you want in your team. Sure they both are fairly powerful with a Life Orb and respectable 70 attack (or tech boosts) but they're both paper thin, and really cant do anything besides hit switch ins with uturns before you start losing momentum. LC is a teir where there are a couple of elite mons and thats because they're multi-faceted in one way or another. You'll notice that very few things in the A+ teirs have only one role in the game. Meowth and Aipom lack that dimension, as i said earlier but they're also sub par at the only thing they can do - beat out by the Mienfoo specifically.

 

[apt-get]

First post in this thread, I might sound like a noob but...
I'd place Zigzagoon in B or C rank. After testing some EVs, I finally found a bulky spread capable of taking things such as Staryu's hydro pump, Snover's blizzard, Hippo's earthquake and even Abra's HP fighting, heal with oran berry, setup a belly drum and OHKO with extremespeed. A set without any speed EVs and an adamant nature puts it at 11 speed, which lets you invest in bulk and still outspeed things you need to hit with seed bomb such as hippopotas (which is OHKOed) and frillish?
A set of Belly Drum/Extremespeed/Seed Bomb/Protect works great, as it can predict with protect and stop fake out from Mienfoo and the likes. Also, Mienfoo and Timburr are OHKOed.
It still need a LOT of support, such as killing or at least weakening various steel-types: Magnemite is useful for this. Ghost types NEEDS to be eliminated, as it can't do much if they're still there. It's also a one-time use Pokémon, that will just get killed if is already forced out, bu it is still "viable".

 

[Good_Luck!]

It still need a LOT of support, such as killing or at least weakening various steel-types: Magnemite is useful for this. Ghost types NEEDS to be eliminated, as it can't do much if they're still there. It's also a one-time use Pokémon, that will just get killed if is already forced out, bu it is still "viable".

I can't see Zigzagoon going to B-rank just because all of this. This falls in C-rank, clearly:

Pokemon in the C tier often require significant support to be effective in LC. C rank Pokemon tend to face a lot of competition with the more commonly used Pokemon.

Extremespeed + Belly Drum + Oran Berry is really deadly but Dragon Dance Dratini is a more realiable user of Extremespeed. Sure, Dratini doesn't get STAB or +6 boost but it can come out early in the match and, if forced out, can come back later.

The other problem I see with Belly Drum Zigzagoon is that it's a really one dimensional 'mon. One can see a BellySweep miles away with Team Preview and play safe with Misdreavus/Drifloon/Gastly (LOL).

On another note, what are our thoughts on Sandile? I'm a little theorymoning here as I have played very few matches with it but with a Scarf is a good Misdreavus trapper and isn't damaged by the prominent Sandstorm. It also outspeeds Scarf Snover and has good coverage. Sure, it's threatened by Mach Punch/Vacuum Wave and Scarfed Mienfoo (Speed tie, though) but it isn't a glass cannon and packs a punch after revenging something. I push for C

 

[apt-get]

I can't see Zigzagoon going to B-rank just because all of this. This falls in C-rank, clearly:



Extremespeed + Belly Drum + Oran Berry is really deadly but Dragon Dance Dratini is a more realiable user of Extremespeed. Sure, Dratini doesn't get STAB or +6 boost but it can come out early in the match and, if forced out, can come back later.

The other problem I see with Belly Drum Zigzagoon is that it's a really one dimensional 'mon. One can see a BellySweep miles away with Team Preview and play safe with Misdreavus/Drifloon/Gastly (LOL).

On another note, what are our thoughts on Sandile? I'm a little theorymoning here as I have played very few matches with it but with a Scarf is a good Misdreavus trapper and isn't damaged by the prominent Sandstorm. It also outspeeds Scarf Snover and has good coverage. Sure, it's threatened by Mach Punch/Vacuum Wave and Scarfed Mienfoo (Speed tie, though) but it isn't a glass cannon and packs a punch after revenging something. I push for C

I don't know why, but I wrote B with the C rank. I mean more of a C rank pokémon, as it can easily clean late-game. I agree with you on every point, though it seems more like C than D imo.

I used sandile as a scarf when I began LC as it's still nice with that STAB earthquake, speed and moxie, though then I discovered scarf Scraggy. It's really frail too, but trapper seems nice.
180+ Atk Sandile Crunch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Misdreavus: 18-24 (81.81 - 109.09%) -- 81.25% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
It isn't a perfect OHKO, but ir's still nice as missy is very bulky anyway, lol. Selected crunch as it has the same BP than full-powered pursuit. Could work.

 

[Brova]

Just wanted to put a word in for Elekid in C Rank. I has impressive coverage, and can (theoretically) sweep late game as well as having brutal speed. For all that (and hitting 19 HP for life orb) it dies to some resisted hits and has no bulk whatsoever. It also suffers from the same problems it's evolved form does: super effective is not always a KO.

 

[Nozzle]

See post 260. Im on my phone and i have copy paste issues. Might edit later

My point is that any decent player saves their fake out user and/or steel and/or ghost type for zigzag. Which it cant beat. Due to this i stand my point and say D teir.

 

[iss]

I feel that C Rank is fine for Zigzagoon, it does have a nice niche and can play around Fake Out users with Protect. It's certainly not that strong but with good Ghost-trapping support, it sweeps surprisingly well.

 

[Electrolyte]

I don't know if this was missed or I overlooked it, but I'm nominating tirtouga for A tier. (it's not currently in any list if what I see is correct)

Tirtouga is the best Shell Smasher in LC; Sturdy, its great typing, its good power, and its powerful priority attack makes it a very big offensive threat in today's metagame. Sturdy guarantees it a Shell Smash against 95% of the pokemon in the tier if hazards are down- and all it needs is one SSmash to start wrecking things. Aqua Tail / Waterfall / Stone Edge hits all but Ferroseed and Croagunk neutrally, and Aqua Jet can be used to defeat opposing priority pokemon.

 

[Chieliee]

I fully agree with above poster, but i'd like to add that tirt absolutely wrecks sand teams once lileep is down. ( reversal diglett yeaaah)

High A-rank

 

[Rowan]

Pretty sure I've already made 2 posts for Tirtouga to be A tier in this thread, so yes I completely agree. It's a fantastic pokemon. Croagunk, Ferroseed and Lileep all have to be removed but other than that it's very hard to stop once it sets up. Only the above 3 possibly Timburr if Sturdy is broken and the odd scarfer can stop it, and even scarfers are gonna take a massive chunk from Aqua Jet.

 

[Nozzle]

Mhm didnt think about protect. C seems fine then.

 

[Shouting]

The thing about Tirt (and I have used him before quite often) is that it needs alot of support. Croagunk, Ferroseed, and lileep especially aren't the easiest things to take out. It requires Rapid Spin support also, so if you're packing a fire type like Ponyta to get rid of the latter two, rapid spin is needed even more. That would be fine, but all the spinners in LC share at least one weakness with Tirt so it can be hard to cover those holes.

Also, Hail completely ruins your plan and makes it incredibly hard to set up. I think B is fine, it is very good if you can set up with it.

 

[iss]

Tirtouga is definitely A-Rank, it can easily blow through weakened teams as long as it hits Stone Edge and Aqua Tail. As one of the few setup sweepers that doesn't really have a problem with Mienfoo (+2 Splash Plate Aqua Tail is an OHKO) and Drilbur (Aqua Jet), it does very well against a wide variety of teams. Hail teams aren't a problem, as Sturdy isn't a key part of Tirtouga- while useful situationally, it is not at all reliant on it to get a Shell Smash off.

 

[Rowan]

Also, it's not just about sweeping. Infact about half of games I use him in, I don't even set up as it is useful without the boosts. It can switch in on and beat many common pokemon like Krow(without HP Grass), Drifloon, Ponyta and Larvesta and picking off weakened things with Aqua Jet which means it serves as a great check to Drilbur.

 

[macle]

put tirt in a. i thought i did that awhile ago but w/e

Cottonee to b.

Omanyte should be a b pokemon. SS set is beastily and it has plenty of oppurtunites to set up thanks to its nice defense.

 

[Nozzle]

Agreeing with Macle. If your very lucky with ancientpower's boosts your opponent has practically lost. Croagunk is a hard counter to it with vacuum wave and dry skin though. Earth power can be used on the switch but i'd rather have ancientpower.

 

[Skyfall]

I have noticed that Natu is not ranked. I would like to nominate it for B-rank. It has acceptable bulk, along with the ability to tank any fighting hit thrown at it. It can cripple physical attackers with Featherdance, toxic walls, bounce back status and hazards, set up screens, and actually hit pretty hard.

 

[Mylo Xyloto]

Ponyta for A/B rank
I saw ponyta wasnt on the list so I thought I'd nominated it. Ponyta is really good. It has great speed as well as a good attack stat. Ponyta boasts with a powerful stab in flare blitz as well as wild charge for coverage. The sunny day set imo, is the best set. It removes sand, which is pretty cool, it boosts morning sun's healing capabilities as well as weakening water attacks. Flame Body is very useful for burning pokes like mienfoo while it uses fake out. So yea Ponyta for A/B

Also nominating Stunky for B rank
Stunky is probably the best Misdreavus Check. I accomplishes its role by trapping Ghost types for teammates. Stunky's niche is its typing. His typing allows it to take neutral coverage moves from Abra and Missy. It also has fire bast for steels and explosion if you're into that.

Edit: @Macle it's Tirtouga not Tirtuga

 

[Good_Luck!]

Agreeing with both of Mylo Xyloto's nominations, Delver has already said that Ponyta should be A-rank and general consensus agreed with that, iirc.

Natu is debatable, though. I think it should be an A-rank Pokemon along with Chinchou, Porygon and other support 'mons just for its ability to prevent hazards; with FeatherDance, not a single hazard setter can accomplish their job and with U-turn and wish it can support a lot of threats that lack reliable recovery like Misdreavus.

 

[Elevator Music]

I don't know, I feel that Natu has a lot of problems in this metagame. It's an easy switchin for Misdreavus and Murkrow (as well as a plethora of other stuff), and as such requires more support than it should. Also, a lot of the Pokemon it shuts down are becoming a little less common... now it's basically just Hippopotas, Lileep, sorta Foongus, the odd Ferroseed..?

 

[Celestavian]

No.

Natu is nowhere close to A rank, and I'm even having a hard time considering it B. Magic Bounce is its only niche over anything, and while that's a pretty significant ability, offensive Pokemon (such as Scraggy, Misdreavus, Murkrow, Drilbur, Larvesta, Pawniard, Snover, Scarf Mienfoo, Tirtouga...you get the point) use it for an easy set up or just outright KO it. And offensive Pokemon comprise a huge part of the metagame. Psychic/Flying is simply not a great defensive typing to have, even with that 4x Fighting resist, since almost every Fighting-type hits one of its 5 weaknesses super effectively, along with the Shell Smashers and the Sand Rushers that populate the metagame. I'd much rather run a spinner than Natu because Staryu and Drilbur are capable of doing more than just keeping hazards off the field.

 

[Delver]

Agreeing with both of Mylo Xyloto's nominations, Delver has already said that Ponyta should be A-rank and general consensus agreed with that, iirc.

Natu is debatable, though. I think it should be an A-rank Pokemon along with Chinchou, Porygon and other support 'mons just for its ability to prevent hazards; with FeatherDance, not a single hazard setter can accomplish their job and with U-turn and wish it can support a lot of threats that lack reliable recovery like Misdreavus.

I said B Rank for it. though I guess technically I said B+; i think A teir is a little high. As for Natu I agree with Elevator music. I think Natu as some of us remember it before the Big 3 were unbanned is something just can't work with 2 of the Big 3 still running around. Its set, bar magic bounce, is also done better by mukrow who (thanks to prankster) can always out speed the taunt (as its the faster user of prankster). I don't see Natu going past C with the meta as it currently is.

 

[Elevator Music]

As far as Ponyta goes, I'm ok with it being A rank. It doesn't need support outside of Rapid Spin (which is insanely helpful but not 100% necessary), but is very effective. Sun boosted Flare Blitzes just have incredible power haha

 

[TUO]

This might be a long shot but I am willing to petition Koffing for B Rank. Koffing has an incredibly powerful capability to Counter mienfoo and drilbur very well with access to levitate. It forms an incredibly strong defensive backbone for balanced teams especially in tandem with pokemon like Porygon.

 

[Delver]

We've begun regressing to older topics. A lot of Koffing discussion can be found on page 11 of this thread; but i still pretty much stand by this post. Specifically the second paragraph as it actually relates. I think a bunch of others agreed with you at B a little after this post (again, page 11 is where Koffing discussion first started if you'd like to read through some of that).