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- Thread starter Fireburn
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I've seen the set and found that both have their merits. While spreading burns is an excellent niche that Giratina fulfills, having dual phasing moves is something that also works really well due to it not having a chance to burn a Pokemon that's already inflicted with a status condition and racking up entry hazard damage really quickly. I find that if your team already has a good amount of status users or is in desperate need of phasing, the dual phaser set can work. It really depends on what your team needs.
^ The coolness in Roar + Dragon Tail on Giratina-O is that it has 66.67% to phaze the foe via RestTalk. With its incredible bulk, and these chances to phaze, it's gonna be fairly annoying to take down. If you speed creep a bit, you can outspeed Dialga and phaze it via Sleep Talk, which is something I've done in the past. This set is not really related to inflicting status, it's related to Stealth Rock and Spikes, which will slowly kill the foe with Dual Phazing.
Okay I think I'm getting to use this thread for questions a lot.
I'm trying to build a rain team that uses spik stacking to its advantage, and I ran into the problem where I have ferrothorn who is simply not reliable enough to set up both spikes and stealth rocks. I find that one of my options is to set up rocks with another pokemon, but I ran into the problem where every viable rocker I knew that was viable in Ubers either had shit offensive presence, or had a crap defensive synergy with ferrothorn.
My question is what stealth rocker can I use to support my ferrothorn? Any suggestions would be helpful.
I'm trying to build a rain team that uses spik stacking to its advantage, and I ran into the problem where I have ferrothorn who is simply not reliable enough to set up both spikes and stealth rocks. I find that one of my options is to set up rocks with another pokemon, but I ran into the problem where every viable rocker I knew that was viable in Ubers either had shit offensive presence, or had a crap defensive synergy with ferrothorn.
My question is what stealth rocker can I use to support my ferrothorn? Any suggestions would be helpful.
Honestly, your options are very limited. But you should not be looking for a mon that only has good synergy with Ferrothorn. Chances are the rest of your team will have something to cover any weakness that occurs.
Dialga, for example, may not have great synergy with Ferrothorn, but it can still lay rocks and keep offensive pressure. And now consider this: since both are weak to fighting, and the point of your team is to spike stack, you'll need a ghost (spinblocker). When you look at your team from an overall perspective and what it can benefit from, and not just "this mon works well with this mon" you will turn out with a better team in the end.
I am making and uber team with rain support. Most pokemon in my team are offensive, lets say 4 and I have another that can go either Max attack and some bulk OR max attack and max speed . Should I go with some bulk and support moves to try to take a weak hit and set up or just stick to max speed or a choice item, since his speed stat is better to take advantage or higher stat but i woulnt have any defensive pokemon? Can a team work with all offensive pokemon and not a single tank becasue i feel thati have enough offensive power.
What is the team? Is a team im using after randomizing these pokes 4 ubers 1 ou(that casually got drizzle) and one pokemon with swim swift. Since the Drizzle and Swift swim is banned in OU i think this an interesting team and i actually like it!!
Which Pokemon are you talking about? Meet my team: Genesect, Darkrai, Deoxys, Hydreigon, Gorebyss and Politoed
What are you trying to accomplish with the team? I try to get THE BEST possible team out of these pokemons. I dont want an op team as some other players like to abuse. Just a good unique team that nobody will ever use(thats why i randomized my pokes ). Obviously i also want it to be capable of winning and at least be in equal possibilies of winning against any more experienced player(pro)'s team.
So can you answer to my question or help me ahieve with what i just posted :D
Which Pokemon are you talking about? Meet my team: Genesect, Darkrai, Deoxys, Hydreigon, Gorebyss and Politoed
What are you trying to accomplish with the team? I try to get THE BEST possible team out of these pokemons. I dont want an op team as some other players like to abuse. Just a good unique team that nobody will ever use(thats why i randomized my pokes ). Obviously i also want it to be capable of winning and at least be in equal possibilies of winning against any more experienced player(pro)'s team.
So can you answer to my question or help me ahieve with what i just posted :D
blitzlefan
shake it off!
Choosing six random Pokemon and wanting to have the same chance of winning as a more experienced player is extremely contradictory, as you forfeit good teambuilding, covering weaknesses and roles, checks to S-tier Pokemon, etc. Hopefully I don't' sound too harsh, but trying to slap together six Pokemon and expecting to win is really a bad idea. To be completely honest, I don't know why you're using Politoed at all. Even though it's special or random, let's face the facts: it's terrible. By picking Politoed, you're basically inhibiting yourself, as there's a much better choice in Kyogre. Though it's "mainstream", Kyogre basically completely outclasses Politoed as a rain summoner, and you could always try a less popular set. Deoxys is pretty bad, unless you meant Deoxys-S or Deoxys-A. Hydreigon and Gorebyss are also mediocre by Ubers standards (they have some merit I guess), though you could try Kyurem-B, and Kabutops or Omastar.
For this question: "Should I go with some bulk and support moves to try to take a weak hit and set up or just stick to max speed or a choice item, since his speed stat is better to take advantage or higher stat but i woulnt have any defensive pokemon? ", can you explain which Pokemon you're referring to?
Lastly, yes, a team can work without defensive Pokemon, and looking at your first three choices, it looks like you're leaning towards hyperoffense anyway. Right now, your team gets swept by Arceus-Normal, has no real switch-ins to Kyogre, and opposing Dragon-types hurt a lot. You could run Kabutops to help deal with Arceus-Normal, and perhaps Latias or Palkia over Hydreigon.
For this question: "Should I go with some bulk and support moves to try to take a weak hit and set up or just stick to max speed or a choice item, since his speed stat is better to take advantage or higher stat but i woulnt have any defensive pokemon? ", can you explain which Pokemon you're referring to?
Lastly, yes, a team can work without defensive Pokemon, and looking at your first three choices, it looks like you're leaning towards hyperoffense anyway. Right now, your team gets swept by Arceus-Normal, has no real switch-ins to Kyogre, and opposing Dragon-types hurt a lot. You could run Kabutops to help deal with Arceus-Normal, and perhaps Latias or Palkia over Hydreigon.
Ok maybe change politoad for Kyogre. But apart from that, i think the team can do some work like that.
Thanks you made me realize that only mainstream pokemon are usable in competitive teambuilding.
blitzlefan
shake it off!
... not sure if that's sarcasm...
That's not true though - not just mainstream Pokemon are viable. Plenty of underrated Pokemon are usable as well, but they need proper team support; you can't just gather a bunch of underrated Pokemon and expect them to work. You should think about how your team members work and how the team functions as a whole when you construct a team. What I suppose I was trying to express earlier with the Politoed example was that you shouldn't use Pokemon that are completely outclassed. What does Politoed have over Kyogre? What does Deoxys-N have over Deoxys-A or Deoxys-S? Not much. However, Gorebyss and Hydreigon can work, as long as they fill a role and you give them enough support. If you want to use Gorebyss and Hydreigon, they do both have their merits, but why do you want to use them? What specific niche can they fill on your team that a "mainstream" Pokemon might not be able to? Think about that, and build your team to accommodate for that.
Anyways, good luck.
Thanks for the answer. Oh Btw, do you think all pokemon in Ubers are viable or just a few? Also, iwasnt refering to pokes as mainstream in a bad way, just to call them what they are and for a reason they are good in the tier.
blitzlefan
shake it off!
A majority of the Pokemon in Ubers are viable, though some are just awful and pretty much completely unusable (e.g. Deoxys-N, Tornadus-T, a couple Arceus formes, etc.). A handful of OU Pokemon are viable as well (e.g. Terrakion, Ferrothorn, etc.) as well as some lower tier Swift Swim users, etc. For a clearer picture of what's viable, I'll just direct you to this thread: http://www.smogon.com/forums/thread...-ranking-thread-now-taking-write-ups.3473976/. Generally, the Pokemon B-rank and above are viable, and some C-rank Pokemon are debatable as well.
If you have any more questions, feel free to VM /PM me (can we do that with the new formatting)?
Sorry, i meant: Are D-Rank pokemon only viable with the right support or do they go well in any team?
blitzlefan
shake it off!
This is an excerpt from the Viability thread; Pokemon in D-rank and E-rank suck, and the majority of C-rank Pokemon are pretty bad as well. Personally, I'd just avoid the bottom three ranks altogether, though if you are really determined to use them, stuff in C-rank can work if you give them enough support.
~C Rank: Reserved for Pokemon who perform specific niches and can be effective given the right support, but either are incapable of performing well outside of that niche or are heavily dependent on that support.
~D Rank: Reserved for Pokemon who are simply not very effective in the current metagame.
~E Rank: Reserved for Pokemon that are aggressively mediocre. The worst of the worst.
Wow. More than a whole week.
Anyway, I keep seeing mentions of how great Latias is in Ubers here. I definitely agree, as I love using her. She's such an excellent 'mon, and setting up in Kyogre's face is quite fun indeed, as well as going for a late-game sweep with CM + Roost and possibly Refresh to wash away assaults, and then smash 'em with a Dragon Pulse for the bitter end. However, I haven't seen too much on Latios, and the little talk of him in the Viability Ranking Thread was soon ignored. How good is Latios in Ubers, what does he have over the other dragons, and what do you personally think is his best set? I've read his analysis many times, to be sure, but I find they tend to exaggerate how good a Pokemon is in a specific tier, and the tiers do change quite often. In addition, not all sets on those are actually all that great, especially for a less popular tier like Ubers.
What are your thoughts?
How to report?
Anyway to answer that question, Latios is just as viable in my eyes, but it works slightly differently. Latias is a great check to Kyogre while Latios has trouble switching in a lot. Which brings me to the point that Latios is a wallbreaker, as its Draco Meteor is a lot stronger than Latias's. So of course the talk about Latias being great is justified (even though I personally never liked Latias) but comparing Latios to Latias isn't the way you wanna go as they fit on entirely different teams and have different roles as well.
Sorry just a passing nitpick, Tornadus-T is actually a really good mon in Ubers. (okay not like A rank good but definitely a great addition to a team) It's got a lot of nifty little tools and a surprisingly strong Hurricane that it can really abuse with that 121 speed. Fits really nicely on rain teams in general seeing as a lot of rain offense mons are stopped by Grassarc which is bird food for Tornadus-T.
Just wanted to nitpick that. (as well as mention that the viability is list is a bit off, in general stay away from D rank and below and tread a bit carefully with some of the C rank)
Here's a question for all of Smogon, keep in mind i've been here for a long time and I know what i'm doing, can people stop acting like "Smogon sets are the only sets you're allowed to use and if you don't it's bad and you have to change it or you're bad." Do you know how annoying it is to see that everywhere, if I suggest a set then people will literally say that it's bad because it's not standard, and it gets annoying fast.
Same for bans, you can deny that you ban every threat that exists, but you do. That, and everyone acts like OU is the only tier. Honestly this is the best tier but because it's not OU everyone acts like it's bad. I would just like to know why everyone acts like that honestly.
Same for bans, you can deny that you ban every threat that exists, but you do. That, and everyone acts like OU is the only tier. Honestly this is the best tier but because it's not OU everyone acts like it's bad. I would just like to know why everyone acts like that honestly.
Trainer Au
Insert custom title here
Sooo, what is your question?
And people make not like your sets because they are just straight up inferior to the standard sets. Smog bans things that are in need of a ban, if it is unhealthy for the meta (moody, etc.) then it makes sense to ban it. In regards to why everyone thinks ubers is bad, well, everyone has different likes and dislikes.
Hope that answered your question (?)
blitzlefan
shake it off!
(1) That's not true, it's just that many people try to pull off sets that are unviable, and the standard sets usually perform roles that "unique" sets can't. Also, a lot of "unique" sets (I'm using this term sort of loosely) are pretty awful, though good gimmicks that are effective will soon be adopted by the playerbase. Lastly, the writers on Smogon put a LOT of effort into creating efficient sets and good analyses, and if there were other viable sets to write about, chances are, someone would have discovered them.
(2) Bans don't occur in the Ubers metagame, so I'm not sure why this is relevant in this thread, unless you're angry at the Moody clause or something. (???)
(3) Ubers is indeed the best tier, I agree with you here. People who dislike the Ubers metagame for crappy reasons are whiny turds. However, OU is the standard metagame and has the most players, so that's why it garners the most attention. Reasons I think people dislike the Uber tier are because they dislike cover legendaries ("oh man n00bs use legendaries" and other shit arguments), and the amount of crappy battlers on the Ubers ladder. Ubers is also rather hazards-centric due to the durability of our spinblockers, and some people dislike that.
Edit: Ninja'd ;_;
1. I know there are many bad players but I was talking about bad sets that do go onsite (SCARF DEOXYS-S???) You can't say there are times people ignore sets that are very good or don't give it a chance.
2. I meant bans from OU to Ubers (also I hate Moody too)
3. Even if it's standard, articles and guides on the site act like it's the only tier. Go to the OU thread for that and it has a long paragraph saying "if you think something deserves an analysis but should not be in OU then do it for..." acting like it's the only tier that matters. Also the whole thing about their idea on entry hazards that every team must have SR and a spinner and a spinblocker or something will happen is another thing, so not every team needs a spinblocker (and in the analysis for Rapid Spin it literally says that the entire reason you will see ghosts is to spinblock.)
Can you really say that everything about the analysis for each pokemon, their sets, and ideas on everything are right, especially after they say thry want to ban as little as possible except every single suspect test for months now is just a ban.
Something's usage in Ou has nothing to do with its usefulness in ubers. Also no one said that the onsite sets were the only sets, thinking otherwise is laughable. There are a multitude of sets that work that don't have an onsite analysis. Also Ou is a joke and their banning process is just a steep slope so I'd just disregard what they say entirely. If you feel a set is un/worthy of An analysis I suggest pm'ing a mod or posting in C&C.
Many players discover their own sets through playing, myself included, which differ from the on-site sets. If you discover a set that you feel is viable you can discuss it with others on IRC or on the forums for feedback. Everyone is entitled to an opinion, however, so if someone believes their set outclasses yours, you should not take it to heart.
Everyone is free to like or dislike whatever they want, so if a user dislikes ubers there is no reason to argue against them. There will be bias in every sub-forum for each metagame. If you ask longtime players like myself what my favorite tier is, I'll tell you ubers. But yet you won't see me talking about how great it is in the OU sub-forum. Therefore nobody acts like OU is the only tier, it just so happens to be the most played tier. Technically we are all playing made up metagames considering doubles is the only "standard" tier based on TPC.