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Ask an Uber Question, Get an Uber Answer (Read FAQs in First Post Before Asking)

Discussion in 'BW Ubers' started by Fireburn, Jun 25, 2011.

  1. Go10

    Go10 Storm Vanguard !

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    Ferrothorn has curse, can he be used as a boosting mons ? A mons need a perfect typing and movepool to be viable as a boosting mons. Also, it seems you dont understand how Lugia is supposed to be played; he doesn't possess any nuke ability like Mewtwo, but is an immovable mons after a couple of minds (ie 2). Oh and you clearly missed the point, a tank isnt supposed to hit right back (or at least, its not mandatory). Blissey is a wall, Lugia is a tank, Ho-Oh is an offtank.

    Main set =/= Only set available

    :)
  2. Kebabe

    Kebabe
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    Well since the definition of a tank is to take hits and hit back I think its you that dont understand the meaning of a tank. (Its OK, you can have your own definition if you want) But do you really think that a slowly boosting "tank" is what Seconhand Work is searching for? Probably not.

    And Yes! if your opponent doesnt has a answer to Ferrothorn (ie many rain teams) a leach seed curse 2 attacks Ferrothorn could probably pull of a sweep.

    Please, don't try to be clever
  3. Go10

    Go10 Storm Vanguard !

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    A tank is by definition someone who's there to take hit as long as possible (in the uber tier, we can safely say Lugia can take hit all the day) and hit back whenever he can, that mean after or before some boost.

    Please refrain from posting if all you have is some imaginary skills. However, if your main objective is to have the last word, then I'll gladly give it to you.
  4. jackm

    jackm

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    Jesus christ guys... You're missing the point.

    The guy asked for which legendary Pokemon can function as tanks. Obviously you could run CM Lugia if you wanted to, but it's kindof like suggesting Latios as a scarfer in Ubers. While it can function in the role, it's both abhorrently outclassed and it's got better stuff to be doing. If you can find one instance where you would honestly rather use CM Lugia than, say, CM Arceus, go ahead. Pretty much no matter what you run with Lugia, you're extremely susceptible to a very common component of Ubers. You're toast to Toxic if you forgo Substitute, phaze bait if you don't run Whirlwind (and even then, some defensive Arceus can outspeed) and the set obviously can't function without Roost, CM, or an Attacking move. Meanwhile, Arceus can run CM/Recover/Judgment/filler, and actually has the firepower to muscle past potential threats.

    Also as a note, a good Ho-Oh user will be able to keep SR from going down, and will be able to compensate and maintain some of Ho-Oh's tanking abilities even with.
  5. Kebabe

    Kebabe
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    My main objective is to help the guy who asked what Pokemon that was good as a tank. I dont think it necessary to divide all Pokemon down to every set. If you just want a general hint about what a good tank is the answer is not Lugia. Ho-Oh is a brilliant tank, Kyogre and Groudon too. Lugia is not the tank he is looking for. Lugia is primary a wall and defensive backbone. Its just silly to say that its mainly a tank.

    And okay, I think we maybe just have different definition of what a tank is? In my opinion a tank is a Pokemon that can take hits and hit hard right back, I think that since Lugia needs multiple boosts to hit back (by the way a completely outclassed set, both by Lugias other sets and Pokemon such as CM Arceus) its not a tank. Its more of a sweeper since when you have your boosts youre not thinking of switching out. If thats your plan then your doing it wrong since you could easily stay in and sweep the whole team if you was able to stay in for the necisay amount of turns to get yourself to that point chances are that your opponent does not have an answer and you could sweep.

    So your definition is that a tank is a Pokemon that can stay in as long as possible? It hits back whenever it can but it doesnt have to? Well in that case Chansey its probably the best tank possible! It can take hits for days and with that bulk it often has the chance to hit back with Sesmic Toss. Chansey could even use a CM set a la Gen3 OU Blizzy. But wait, Chansey is even more defensive then Lugia. Then Chansey maybe could be called a defftank. Why not remove the expression known as a ”wall”.

    My problem with you isnt that you are wrong but still trying to argument with bad arguments. I actually think this could have been a good discussion if it wasnt for your way to argument, youre trying to be funny and all instead of contributing in a productive way. And because of some reason you think that youre better then me. Why? Is it because you never heard of me or is it the fact that you have more posts then me? Its also funny that youre saying that I should not post because of my only ”imaginary skills”. That comes from a guy that recently build a team with the biggest threats being Arceus-Normal and Ghost. I mean, its okey if your week to some threats but being week to the two most dangerous threats in the metagame... Yeah.

    I guess Smogon doesn't want any new user to its community, since everything is about telling everybody about how bad they are. I didnt realise that the community was that bigoted.

    I guess thats no need for me to delete my account since I will probably be banned right away. Cause thats what happens when something isnt the ”Smogon way”, right?
  6. puregenius

    puregenius

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    Cool ur tits kebabe
    By the strictest definition, a forretress with rapid spin as its only move could be considered a tank because it can tank hits and hit back (although it is a minuscule amount)
    Technically, lugia can be a tank
    The amount of damage you expect a tank to hit is purely subjective so there really is no point in arguing about this

    Ps undermining someone else's skill does not make ur argument any better go10 smh
  7. knowmenot

    knowmenot

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    I know Ice Beam part of the standard moveset for Grass Arceus against dragons but is Fire Blast/Flamethrower viable so it's not completely walled by ferrothorn and forretress? This is for support Grass Arceus btw.
  8. Abracadabra

    Abracadabra

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    Can someone please tell me what the best counter of Arceus Ghost Calm Mind/Sub/Judgement/Focus Blast other than a defensive Ho-oh? Ho-oh is good, but it doesn't fit my team. Thank you in advance.
  9. jackm

    jackm

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    @knowmenot: The coverage move you use should really just be tailored to your team. Keep in mind, however, that if Ferro is functioning under rain even Fire Blast isn't going to be doing a ton.

    @Abracadabra: Chansey is the ideal counter, but it's not easy to fit into a lot of teams. Consider Toxic Forretress, SDef Kyogre, or Darkrai as alternatives.
  10. Abracadabra

    Abracadabra

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    Thank you for your advice. I have tried all four pokemons but it is not very effective. The strategy I often encountered is that they throw the Arceus in (e.g., spin block, fighting move predicted, hazard laying etc) and then Substitute when I switch pokemon:
    • Chansey is totally useless against this Arceus: When I switch Chansey, it is already in Substitute, and Chansey becomes a set-up bait.
    • 252HP and 240SDef Kyogre doesn't work either. 1 Judgement without calm mind hit around 30%. With Substitute & higher speed, Arceus can always hit Kyogre twice. Therefore, if my Kyogre doesn't have more than 72% HP (60% 2 hits + 12.5% SR), it will just go and die. And even with 100% HP, it can only hit Arceus once with Scald then die.
    • Darkrai is no use. Switching in the Subbed Arceus, it cannot put the Arceus in sleep. All it can do is to break the sub with Dark Pulse, then be killed by Focus Blast.
    • Toxic Forretress suffer the same fate to Chansey when facing a Subbed Arceus.
  11. puregenius

    puregenius

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    Half of those are horrible checks to subcm ghostceus

    Toxic forre and Chansey are just raped

    Rest talk scald roar is a decent check and darkrai is alright if u can get in before they sub

    Mandibuzz is a great check to cm ghostceus in general with taunt foul play whirlwind roost
    Foul play 2khos

    The big thing is subcm has no recovery so it will die if u just keep hammering it with a physical scarfer like iron head gene
  12. jackm

    jackm

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    Oh shit

    I thought it was standard CM/Recover/FB/Judgment Ghostceus

    sorry bro
  13. Uiru

    Uiru

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    Hi guys, I've got one Genesect wondercard left and I need to clear it to farm Deoxyses. Wondering if there's any good Genesect natures left that I don't have. The last time I asked this question, Genesect was OU so I don't know if something new has come up for Ubers yet. :)

    I've got Timid, Modest, Timid (HP Water), Modest (HP Water), Lonely, Mild, and Hasty. I'm mostly wondering if I need Adamant or Jolly or something hilarious like that, or if Lonely covers the U-Turn stuff well enough. (I could just grab another Timid and add it to the four I already have to give out to people.)

    Thanks.
    ~Uiru
  14. Melee Mewtwo

    Melee Mewtwo Is a Fox main.
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    It's always either Naive or Hasty depending on which defensive stat you don't want to lower for that speed boost.
  15. Dark Fallen Angel

    Dark Fallen Angel FIDDLESTICKS IS ALSO GOOD ON MID!

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    Using Dragon Pulse over Draco Meteor on an all-out attacker Latias is viable? I can't count on my fingers the number of times that I wish Latias had a consistent STAB move to use. Spamming Draco Meteor is nice, but not if something like Ferrothorn is present on the opponent team; because after a Draco Meteor, even Hidden Power Fire will do absolutely pathetic damage, and Grass Knot is inconsistent and does not receive STAB. This problem would be solved if I was using a rain team, where both Thunder and Surf are consistend and powerful and Surf even receive a pseudo-STAB; but I am using a sun team.
  16. Hack

    Hack formerly Hack He Must
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    Of course Dragon Pulse is viable if it suits you team and you can manage to have sun up against Ferrothorn. Sadly, Latias checks Kyogre which means rains will be up which is why non choiced Palkia oftentimes is a more practical check to Kyogre on sun teams- it deals with Ferrothorn easier. But if you feel like using Dragon Pulse, I'd suggest you to try it out since no argument can ultimately go before your own judgement.
  17. knowmenot

    knowmenot

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    I guess this question is more general than this meta specific but when doing the EV spread, is it better to put 4 EVs into HP instead of Def/SpDef? Is there any difference? And this is directed more for when I want to give defensive spreads and can't decide whether it's better to put more EVs into HP or the defenses.
  18. Focus

    Focus I'm waiting you...

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    It's pretty standard to put the 4 extra EVs (for an offensive spread) in HP rather than a defense, unless it puts you at a bad HP number. For example, HP shouldn't be a multiple of 10 with Life Orb held. It is also usually bad for HP to be a multiple of 8 (4 if you are weak to Rock) because that would maximize passive damage. If you're holding Leftovers, then HP being slightly more than a multiple of 16 is ideal, but there are exceptions to this rule, such as with Ferrothorn.

    For a defensive spread, maximum or near-maximum HP is best usually. Some exceptions would be Pokemon with high base HP, but our individual Pokemon analyses should indicate that. If you want to throw the spare EV into a defense stat, then the other thing to consider is would you rather face opposing Genesect at +1 Atk or +1 SpA due to its Ability, Download. This only applies if your base Def and SpD are equal; if they aren't equal, then it shouldn't really matter where you put the 4 EVs. Pick whichever marginal boost makes you feel better, I guess.
  19. TGMD

    TGMD +Biosci: you both gave me crabs
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    There is no overall best place to put those last 4 EVs, it depends entirely on the Pokémon. Putting EVs into HP rather than Defense or Special Defense gives you more bulk overall, whereas placing them into separate defences gives you more bulk in the defense stat you place them in.

    However, there are many other factors to consider. Putting EVs into the lower defense stat gives you a higher percentage increase than if you put those EVs into the higher defense stat. For example, maximising Blissey's Special Defense gives her only a 20% increase in special bulk, but maximising her Defense stat gives her a 95% increase in physical bulk, a much larger difference and clearly more beneficial overall.

    There's also the factor of how your HP is divided. If your HP is divisible by 2, 4, 8, 16, or 32 (depending on how weak you are to Stealth Rock), then you'll be KO'd by Stealth Rock if you switch in that many times. If your HP is divisible by 8, you'll be KO'd by Leech Seed, Burn, or Poison in 8 turns. If your HP is divisible by 10 and you're using a Life Orb, you'll be KO'd after attacking 10 times. If your HP is divisible by 16, you'll be KO'd by Sandstorm or Hail in 16 turns. And if your HP is divisible by 6, you'll be KO'd by 2 layers of Spikes if you switch in 6 times (all these are assuming you don't lose HP through any other means). Whereas, if your HP isn't divisible by any of these numbers, you'll survive with a few extra HP, and ultimately live another turn. Therefore it's usually best to avoid being divisible by these numbers, but keep in mind you do gain extra HP via Leftovers if you HP is divisible by 16, etc. (You can read more about this here).

    Finally, if your Base stats for each defense is equal, then you may want to put an extra EV point in Special Defense to give Genesect a Physical attack boost instead of a Special one (this is only a good idea if that particular Pokémon / your entire team prefers it if Genesect gets a Physical attack boost).

    And, for future reference, if you have a competitive question that isn't specific to one tier such as this one, ask it here. I hope this helped :)
  20. Hack

    Hack formerly Hack He Must
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    Lol. Genesect's main set is physical scarf. It wants to get boosted U-turns.
  21. TGMD

    TGMD +Biosci: you both gave me crabs
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    I know, but that's completely irrelevant. I said it was only if the Pokémon or team prefers Genesect getting the physical attack boost, that's incredibly rare for entire teams, yeah, but there are many Pokémon out there that would prefer taking a boosted U-Turn / Iron Head than a boosted Ice Beam / Flamethrower. Also, just because Phyiscal Scarf is Genesect's main, doesn't mean nothing else exists. Admittedly, it's highly unusual to see a different set in competitive play, but then again, you never know what you'll find on the ladder, lol.

    EDIT: It was never my intention to encourage giving Genesect an Attack boost, but looking back at my post I realise I probably didn't phrase it very well, and I understand why you thought I was, sorry for the confusion.
  22. Hack

    Hack formerly Hack He Must
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    I agree. Weird sets can of course be found on the ladder, my point being that I'd never encourage anyone to actively make Genesect get a boosted attack stat by putting leftover EVs in special defense.
  23. knowmenot

    knowmenot

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    Thanks for the responses. Wow, I never realized all the divisible factors with residual damage that can affect HP EV spreads and your pokes overall survival. I'll take a look at the HP EV articles.
  24. superstar

    superstar

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    Since no one answered this, I shall. Yes, Fire Blast is fairly viable to deal with Ferrothorn or Forry. I find that the coverage move is rarely used, so you can use Fire Blast to deal 42-50% to Ferro in the rain, or even Stone Edge with a Serious nature to hit Ho-Oh. Make sure you have a good Rayquazza check if you do this though.
  25. Melee Mewtwo

    Melee Mewtwo Is a Fox main.
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    Don't bother with the serious nature, if you have SR up you'll OHKO Ho-Oh. That extra speed is FAR more important than having a 31.25% chance to OHKO a tank Ho-Oh without SR up.

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