DP Research Thread #2 ("New")

[Team Rocket Elite]

No Guard + STAB move breaks through Protect on an English DP game. It doesn't seem to work on PBR or a Japanese DP game. I tried No Guard Machamp's DynamicPunch vs Protect Yanmega. It didn't really feel like it broke through 50% of the time, but it broke through.

 

[Wizard of Odd]

alright this is what i got from testing gravity. times hit/time used
WoW:17/17
thunder:31/31
sing:15/16
zap cannon:23/27
horn drill:13/17 with zoom lens attached.
i didn't know levels affected horn drill acc. it was a lv.100 rhyperior against a lv.60 clefable. hope this helps with the research.

 

[Team Rocket Elite]

Was the Rhyperior faster than Clefable?

 

[Wizard of Odd]

no.

 

[Boa1891]

See, I knew I wasn't crazy. >_>
Like I said, I know that it works in a DS-to-DS battle, but I don't know if it works on WiFi. If it only works on english DS games, and not on PBR or Japanese games, I expect it's a bug. Possible No Guard and STAB acting weird together.

And ehhhhh. 50% never really "feels" like 50%, especially when you end up with less than 50% total. Still, I think that sounds most likely.

 

[X-Act]

Lv100 Staraptor - 369 Atk
Lv100 Snorlax - 229 Def
Staraptor using max power Return

199, 196, 205, 189, 411(CH), 186

Base Power: 102

Base power 100, the damage would be 174-205, and 411 would be max CH damage.
Base power 102, the damage would be 178-210.

It could be either.

 

[Team Rocket Elite]

Assuming 100 power, 199 damage is impossible. 102 power is the only one that can produce all of those damage numbers.

 

[X-Act]

Whoops. You're right. Good catch.

I dunno if this is known already, but Poison Point cannot poison Steel types.

 

[Boa1891]

Are steels 100% immune to all poison this gen? Here's a simple test. The only untested thing I can think of is Toxic Orb. If Toxic Orb won't do it, I don't think anything will.

 

[Samson]

regarding No Guard + STAB breaking through Protect... there has been claims of 100% acc Blizzards due to Hail have hit through Protect as well. if this is true, maybe it has something to do with increased accuracy + STAB rather No Guard alone.

 

[Boa1891]

regarding No Guard + STAB breaking through Protect... there has been claims of 100% acc Blizzards due to Hail have hit through Protect as well. if this is true, maybe it has something to do with increased accuracy + STAB rather No Guard alone.

I assumed this was the case, since I've heard of Thunder hitting through protect, too. I've also heard not-so-common claims on Lock-On'd attacks hitting through Protect.

I'll test later:
STABThunderRain+Protect
STABBlizzardHail+Protect
LockOnSTABAttack+Protect

 

[Yashichi]

STAB appears to have nothing to do with Thunder hitting through Protect during the rain, and there appears to be a 25% chance of it happening.

Summary of all the tests I've done:

Test 1-
Pokemon: Pikachu (STAB)
Hits: 3 out of 12

Test 2-
Pokemon: Clefairy (No STAB)
Hits: 2 out of 12

Test 3-
Pokemon: Lickitung (No STAB)
Hits: 3 out of 12

Test 4-
Pokemon: Magnemite (STAB)
Hits: 3 ouf ot 12

Out of 48 Thunders, 11 hit, an observed 22.91% chance. This is within one hit of being 25%, and a 25% chance is consistent with most of the tests, so we can safely assume that the probability of Thunder hitting through Protect in the rain is 25%. Also, the Pokemon with STAB on Thunder hit about the same number of times as the Pokemon without it, so STAB probably doesn't affect this chance.

 

[ΩDonut]

Assuming 100 power, 199 damage is impossible. 102 power is the only one that can produce all of those damage numbers.

Could you explain why 199 damage is impossible with 100 power?

 

[Mario With Lasers]

Maybe Protect just nullify the "never-miss" characteristic of some moves (Thunder on raining, Blizzard on Hail, Machamp with No Guard attacking...), just considering the actual accuracy of them (70% for Thunder and Blizzard, whatever% for Machamp's moves). Someone should test the other never-miss moves (Shockwave and etcetera) too.

 

[Yashichi]

Maybe Protect just nullify the "never-miss" characteristic of some moves (Thunder on raining, Blizzard on Hail, Machamp with No Guard attacking...), just considering the actual accuracy of them (70% for Thunder and Blizzard, whatever% for Machamp's moves).

If you would actually look through the topic, you would see that Thunder in rain seems to have 25% Accuracy against Protect, and that No Guard appears to give moves against Protect their normal accuracy. However, no one has tested Blizzard yet.

Edit: Blizzard needs to be tested by someone with two DS's; you can't target your ally with Blizzard in 2v2.

 

[Tangerine]

Could you explain why 199 damage is impossible with 100 power?

(42 * 369 * 100 / 229 / 50 + 2) Rounded down is 137.

floor(137 * x/100) * 1.5 is what you're using.

RNG of 97 yields 198 and 98 yields 201.

So it can't be base 100.

 

[Misty]

someone alerted me to the fact that Psypoke has a different explanation of Reckless, Hitmonlee's ability:

http://www.psypokes.com/dex/psydex/106/all

Did we actually verify that we were correct about this ability?

 

[Team Rocket Elite]

Reckless' in game description says:

Powers up moves that
have recoil damage.

A Japanese site I go to also suggests that it increases the damage of recoil moves by 1.2x. Off the top of my head, the only recoil attack Hitmonlee learns is Double-Edge. Hi Jump Kick isn't a recoil attack but it seems to get a boost.

Lv29 Hitmonlee - 81 Atk
Lv43 Honchkrow - 55 Def

66, 132(CH), 64, 126(CH), 62
This suggests a 1.2x multiplier to damage. I'll leave it to X-Act and Peterko to determine exactly where in the damage formula the boost is. I'll try Skill Swaping Reckless to another Pokemon to test real Recoil moves.

Edit: Tested Take Down

Lv32 Relicanth - 63 Atk
Lv100 Blissey - 130 Def
Relicanth has used one X Attack
Relicanth is using Take Down.
Relicanth has been Skill Swapped Reckless

Take Down does 22 damage.
Without Reckless boost, max damage is 20.
Reckless boosts Take Down's damage.

 

[Death Phenomeno]

Just in case this required confirmation:

This video shows that Taunt works against substitutes and that Magnet Rise is unaffected by Mold Breaker.

 

[Team Rocket Elite]

A couple people have told me that a Skill Swapped Pure Power only gives a 1.5x boost to attack. I'm not sure if this was true in RSEFL, but it's not in DP.

Lv100 Garchomp - 357 Atk
Lv100 Blissey - 130 Def
Garchomp has been Skill Swapped Pure Power

Dragon Claw does 483 damage.
Assuming a 1.5x boost, max damage is around 417.
A Skill Swaped Pure Power gives the full boost.

 

[Peterko]

Lv29 Hitmonlee - 81 Atk
Lv43 Honchkrow - 55 Def

66, 132(CH), 64, 126(CH), 62
This suggests a 1.2x multiplier to damage. I'll leave it to X-Act and Peterko to determine exactly where in the damage formula the boost is. I'll try Skill Swaping Reckless to another Pokemon to test real Recoil moves.

yeah reckless is one of the last 3-4 abilities we need to find the positions of, should´ve been researched today, but I was testing CHs, KOing wild pkmn all day...the CH results will be posted in a few minutes or tomorrow morning

 

[KevlarX290]

Submission: What's the recoil?

Just like Take Down, the recoil is also 1/4.

 

[Teferi]

On the issue of the Custap Berry:

"A Poffin ingredient. If held by a Pokémon, it gets to move first just once in a pinch." (Serebii's Berrydex)

Sounds to me like it's supposed to be used to make Poffins :)

Joking aside, it sounds like it works something like this: Sometimes, when you're HP's low, your pokemon will get to attack first, much like with the quick claw, except only when you're HP's low and only once (as it's a berry). Though it needs to be tested, I'm going to assume that the chances of moving first with this are better than the chances are with Quick Claw, as Quick Claw makes this completely useless if the chances are the same or better with the claw.
I know it needs to be tested more, but I hope it helps give people a head start as to what to test for with it.


Also (sorry if i missed this), was wondering:
What happens if you use skill swap on a castform with Forecast while weather is in effect?

 

[Boa1891]

Joking aside, it sounds like it works something like this: Sometimes, when you're HP's low, your pokemon will get to attack first, much like with the quick claw, except only when you're HP's low and only once (as it's a berry). Though it needs to be tested, I'm going to assume that the chances of moving first with this are better than the chances are with Quick Claw, as Quick Claw makes this completely useless if the chances are the same or better with the claw.
I know it needs to be tested more, but I hope it helps give people a head start as to what to test for with it.

I've used it before. It seems to me that basically, if you are under 25% health, your very next attack (I must stress that it is used unconditionally with your next attack) moves you to the top of your priority bracket (something with a +priority should move before the Custap user, and if the Custap user uses a -priority they still move later), and it only works that one time.
This is just what I gathered from casual use, rather than actual testing. I know that I still moved last with Custap+Avalanche, and that in any neutral priority case (don't remember a quick attack case) I moved first. It paired it with Endure-Reversal once, it was bad ass.

 

[Boa1891]

Yes it would... Is that something new in D/P? I can add that in there fairly easily. Though, I still need to add in the code for the new abilities, yet...

Yes, the Rock-Type SpDef boost is new to D/P.
Just to note, it's applied directly to the stat, not counted as a stage.
Example:
Instead of Iron Defense+Sandstorm equaling 3 stages (250% of original stat) it equals 2 stages and a 1.5x multiplier (300% of the original stat). Seems like common sense, but I just figured I should make sure you knew.

Also, I don't think it's been definitively tested... Does it actually boost the defense stat, or simply reduce the damage after other calculations? The difference it makes is minimal, but X-Act and Peterko should test it if they haven't.

My post on Metalkid's topic. Only real important part for the purposes of this thread is the final paragraph.