Kangaskhanite Tiering Discussion [+Demographics Poll Added to OP]

[Azure30]

I'm just going off what Shadowmario's posts, since apparently I'm not thinking and he is.
The +2 only comes off a successful Power-Up Punch, which I have had no problem preventing with Protect or Ghost-types.
Also pokemon like Ferrthorn with Rocky Helmet inflicts around 14/24th of Mega-Kengaskhan's health every turn, especially usable if you're switching into a Return or Crunch even a Power-Up Punch.

Ghosts are not a safe switch in. Team Preview will give away the fact that you have ghosts so right away the odds of successful prediction are in favor of the Khan player. You keep saying 'you' don't have any problem with Mega Khan... did you ever stop to think you don't actually play at a competitive level? Just curious, where are these Khans you've been fighting? In-game free battle? Pokemon Showdown?

Ferro does 60% damage on a successful prediction and dies the next turn to earthquake/fire attack so you've managed to completely sac your pokemon for nothing. Better run rocky helmet Druddigon too. There you go, countered Khan and it only took two pokemon to do it, you don't even need to worry about their movesets since they wont attack anyway, its brilliant.

 

[Uvood]

I'm not saying it's not Ubers worthy or whatever, I'm just tired of people treating it as so cut-and-dry as they do. I'm not even a fan of MegaKhan, so whether it goes or not doesn't bother me, but the fact that people just say, "It's uncounterable", without giving it a second thought annoys me. I'm just putting forward something that could, with some reliability, switch into it and cripple it.

But the examples they are giving is showing it's not reliable. You're giving your Gourgeist the perfect situation, where Gourgeist will be able to actually cripple the Kanga and he has no heal bell support. A true counter can beat a poke 100% of the time, even in an unfavorable position. And, due too how good Mega Kanga is, and the ease at which it destroys the metagame, you'll, most of the time, be in an unfavorable situation when dealing with Kanga.

 

[Azure Demon]

You're dealing with a lot of hypothetical situations. It CAN carry Fire Blast, it CAN have a cleric, but in most common situations it won't have either of those. That's like saying a Gengar CAN run Thunderbolt and 2-shot your Vaporeon, but in an overwhelmingly large number of cases it won't have TBolt.

Lots of gengars do run t-bolt on LO sets especially since shadow ball, sludge bomb are damn near quake edge coverage.
T bold focus blast is a great set. People run dazzling gleam like idiots but t Bolt give even better coverage

Also you have NO idea what you are talking about so please stop. Most situations the team will have a cleric because most people do try and take kangaskhan down through status means because they can't take it down directly. So you SWITCH OUT KANGASKHAN AND SWITCH IN THE CLERIC then get rid of his status then you can bring in a newly non statused kanga and continue to wreak havoc on the opponents team... What mega kangaskhan team have you seen with no support for kangaskhan in case of status or low life. All teams I've seen have wish support and or cleric support for status.

 

[Azure30]

You're dealing with a lot of hypothetical situations. It CAN carry Fire Blast, it CAN have a cleric, but in most common situations it won't have either of those. That's like saying a Gengar CAN run Thunderbolt and 2-shot your Vaporeon, but in an overwhelmingly large number of cases it won't have TBolt.

Uh, what? The fire blast part I'll give you, but when Mega Khan has only a small handful of counters, why would you NOT want to build the rest of its team around those counters to secure victory?

 

[Orga777]

Lots of gengars do run t-bolt on LO sets especially since shadow ball, sludge bomb are damn near quake edge coverage.
T bold focus blast is a great set. People run dazzling gleam like idiots but t Bolt give even better coverage

Also you have NO idea what you are talking about so please stop. Most situations the team will have a cleric because most people do try and take kangaskhan down through status means because they can't take it down directly. So you SWITCH OUT KANGASKHAN AND SWITCH IN THE CLERIC then get rid of his status then you can bring in a newly non statused kanga and continue to wreak havoc on the opponents team... What mega kangaskhan team have you seen with no support for kangaskhan in case of status or low life. All teams I've seen have wish support and or cleric support for status.

I ran into a few that don't have clerics... however they tend to have both Rotom-W and Talonflame instead who can just take the WoW and laugh...

 

[Tressed]

Remember cobalion doesn't even 1 shot with cc

I calced it a while ago. Needs at least 72 Attack EVs and Expert Belt (EBelt was its only viable set last gen, don't judge) to OHKO with Stealth Rock :/

I'm just going off what Shadowmario's posts, since apparently I'm not thinking and he is.
The +2 only comes off a successful Power-Up Punch, which I have had no problem preventing with Protect or Ghost-types.
Also pokemon like Ferrthorn with Rocky Helmet inflicts around 14/24th of Mega-Kengaskhan's health every turn, especially usable if you're switching into a Return or Crunch even a Power-Up Punch.

You aren't preventing a PUP, you're delaying it. I think someone talked about how Ghosts aren't good switch ins to Kanga outside of Sableye.
Kind of too bad that Kangaskhan kills ferrothorn anyways. It. Doesn't. Counter. Okay?

 

[XZ2H3000]

I'm just going off what Shadowmario's posts, since apparently I'm not thinking and he is.
The +2 only comes off a successful Power-Up Punch, which I have had no problem preventing with Protect or Ghost-types.
Also pokemon like Ferrthorn with Rocky Helmet inflicts around 14/24th of Mega-Kengaskhan's health every turn, especially usable if you're switching into a Return or Crunch even a Power-Up Punch.

Still, having to run protect on half my team isn't a good thing, unless i'm playing doubles, since protect works best on pokémon that use toxic or wish, among others, so having to run protect on let's say, Mega Pinsir, instead of running something useful like quick attack, because apparently it is a "reliable" way to deal with Mega Kangaskhan just because it uses the same moves. Things like Blaziken for example, you know it's packing Flare Blitz, HJK, stuff like that, because it only needs one set to work well, and while it has the same moves, and you know what to expect, it isn't reason for Blaziken to be OU.

Also, stop with rocky helmet, stealth rock takes 50% of Talonflame's and MegaZard Y health, and it can still wreck teams, the fact that pokémon can receive passive damage doesn't automatically make them useless.

And while Mega Kangaskhan requires little to-no support to be effective, it loves getting support, such as wish, and the fact that there are things that can deal with MegaKanga "counters".

Also that a pokémon that has counters that is broken, doesn't make it not broken, Hydreigon for example doesn't have any straight-up counters, only checks, but that doesn't make Hydreigon worthy of a ban, it still has problems. Kyogre gets walled most of the time by Latias, Grass Arceus..... and Shedinja, does that mean it's OU, no, it isn't, so don't try to defend a CLEARLY broken thing from getting banned just cause you easily get high rankings in PS

 

[Axe_Raider]

Ghosts are not a safe switch in. Team Preview will give away the fact that you have ghosts so right away the odds of successful prediction are in favor of the Khan player. You keep saying 'you' don't have any problem with Mega Khan... did you ever stop to think you don't actually play at a competitive level? Just curious, where are these Khans you've been fighting? In-game free battle? Pokemon Showdown?

Ferro does 60% damage on a successful prediction and dies the next turn to earthquake/fire attack so you've managed to completely sac your pokemon for nothing. Better run rocky helmet Druddigon too. There you go, countered Khan and it only took two pokemon to do it, you don't even need to worry about their movesets since they wont attack anyway, its brilliant.

unless your fire attack is fireblast, (which it could be). Your mega kanga is either dead n sitting on between 1 and 3 hp assuming prior rocks dmg, if you kill with eq your sitting on 7/24 of your max hp. Which is suitably in range of revenge killing with some of the stronger priority.

 

[Orga777]

unless your fire attack is fireblast, (which it could be). Your mega kanga is either dead n sitting on between 1 and 3 hp assuming prior rocks dmg, if you kill with eq your sitting on 7/24 of your max hp. Which is suitably in range of revenge killing with some of the stronger priority.

Congrats. You lost at least one pokemon, and come in on a Sucker Punch that might be at +2 to get hit hard, leaving at least a half dead pokemon. You are now down at least 4.5/5 and have not accounted for the rest of the team. It can take two pokemon to kill Mewtwo, too, you know. Does that make Mewtwo OU now?

 

[NoULyons]

Lots of gengars do run t-bolt on LO sets especially since shadow ball, sludge bomb are damn near quake edge coverage.
T bold focus blast is a great set. People run dazzling gleam like idiots but t Bolt give even better coverage

Also you have NO idea what you are talking about so please stop. Most situations the team will have a cleric because most people do try and take kangaskhan down through status means because they can't take it down directly. So you SWITCH OUT KANGASKHAN AND SWITCH IN THE CLERIC then get rid of his status then you can bring in a newly non statused kanga and continue to wreak havoc on the opponents team... What mega kangaskhan team have you seen with no support for kangaskhan in case of status or low life. All teams I've seen have wish support and or cleric support for status.

So now what you've seen is a good indicator of what's common? How is that fair? Most teams I've seen have just slapped on MK because it is a powerful Pokemon, no support and just relying on MK to get a kill before dying, two at best. If a player were to build a team around MK and have a cleric and whatever it would be extremely hard to stop, but the same can be said for a lot of Pokemon in OU, so how is that relevant?

Also, telling me to shut up isn't gonna make me shut up. How do I, "have NO idea what 'I'm' talking about"? Because I said that running Fire Blast on MK isn't common, because I said that running TBolt on Gengar isn't common? Which are BOTH TRUE. It's not common, at least at the moment, to see a MK with Fire Blast and it's not common to see Gengar with TBolt(most run SludgeBomd/ShadowBall/DazzlingGleam/Sub(DBond)).

 

[RandysRage]

Good lord, why are people still posting? It's too damn strong, too damn bulky for how strong it is, and has so few checks that people have to build entire teams around trying to KO one single Pokemon. Just send Mega Kangaskhan to Ubers already and put an end to this pointless bickering.

 

[Azure Demon]

unless your fire attack is fireblast, (which it could be). Your mega kanga is either dead n sitting on between 1 and 3 hp assuming prior rocks dmg, if you kill with eq your sitting on 7/24 of your max hp. Which is suitably in range of revenge killing with some of the stronger priority.

See I don't think you comprehend the issue. I STILL HAVE TO SACK A PERFECTLY GOOD FEROTHORN TO GET IT TO THAT POINT. There is no getting around losing at least one pokemon and even still mega kangaskhan has the option of switching out on the priority user and getting another Shot at life via support so I could have lost my ferrothorn for nothing!

 

[Orga777]

So now what you've seen is a good indicator of what's common? How is that fair? Most teams I've seen have just slapped on MK because it is a powerful Pokemon, no support and just relying on MK to get a kill before dying, two at best. If a player were to build a team around MK and have a cleric and whatever it would be extremely hard to stop, but the same can be said for a lot of Pokemon in OU, so how is that relevant?

Sooooo.... bad players? :/

 

[Uvood]

unless your fire attack is fireblast, (which it could be). Your mega kanga is either dead n sitting on between 1 and 3 hp assuming prior rocks dmg, if you kill with eq your sitting on 7/24 of your max hp. Which is suitably in range of revenge killing with some of the stronger priority.

Then Kanga switches out, and you are practically back to square one. Next time Kanga comes in, how are you gonna get your revenge killer back in? Sacrifice another poke? Worst case scenario, maybe Kanga got a wish pass or healing wish, and you now are not looking to revenge kill, but weaken it all over again.

 

[Azure30]

unless your fire attack is fireblast, (which it could be). Your mega kanga is either dead n sitting on between 1 and 3 hp assuming prior rocks dmg, if you kill with eq your sitting on 7/24 of your max hp. Which is suitably in range of revenge killing with some of the stronger priority.

EQ doesn't trigger Rocky Helmet or Barbs, so either way, Fire Blast or EQ will result in no recoil damage if used on a predicted switch in, and naturally both would have suffered the 60% hp loss after using PuP or Crunch on the switch-in. Most priority will not outspeed Khan's own priority, and even then, Khan isn't dead if it can just switch out and come back later. Proper support can give it Healing Wish/Lunar Dance/Wish/Screens support to come in again fully charged and ready to crush you, your sacrifice goes unnoticed.

 

[Uvood]

So now what you've seen is a good indicator of what's common? How is that fair? Most teams I've seen have just slapped on MK because it is a powerful Pokemon, no support and just relying on MK to get a kill before dying, two at best. If a player were to build a team around MK and have a cleric and whatever it would be extremely hard to stop, but the same can be said for a lot of Pokemon in OU, so how is that relevant?

Also, telling me to shut up isn't gonna make me shut up. How do I, "have NO idea what 'I'm' talking about"? Because I said that running Fire Blast on MK isn't common, because I said that running TBolt on Gengar isn't common? Which are BOTH TRUE. It's not common, at least at the moment, to see a MK with Fire Blast and it's not common to see Gengar with TBolt(most run SludgeBomd/ShadowBall/DazzlingGleam/Sub(DBond)).

Other sweepers practically need support, Kanga does not really need anything, it covers every threat in one moveset. Now, what happens when we give a one man army an army? You say it youself, it would be really hard too stop, would it not? And even stopping it on it's own is difficult.

 

[Azure Demon]

So now what you've seen is a good indicator of what's common? How is that fair? Most teams I've seen have just slapped on MK because it is a powerful Pokemon, no support and just relying on MK to get a kill before dying, two at best. If a player were to build a team around MK and have a cleric and whatever it would be extremely hard to stop, but the same can be said for a lot of Pokemon in OU, so how is that relevant?

Also, telling me to shut up isn't gonna make me shut up. How do I, "have NO idea what 'I'm' talking about"? Because I said that running Fire Blast on MK isn't common, because I said that running TBolt on Gengar isn't common? Which are BOTH TRUE. It's not common, at least at the moment, to see a MK with Fire Blast and it's not common to see Gengar with TBolt(most run SludgeBomd/ShadowBall/DazzlingGleam/Sub(DBond)).

Actually focus blast is used more than dazzling gleam thanks to pursuit tar also with dazzling gleam you lose the ability to kill heatran if it switches into a shadow ball. But that is besides the point. A lot of gengars still do enjoy the tbolt coverage if they go an All out attacking set which I've seen numerous times. But that's beside the point

What I told you to shut up about was the most kanga don't have clerics thing... That was the most idiotic thing I've seen in here. 99.9% of kang teams have some form of healing for their sweeper either via status removal or wish passing.

Hell some dedicate 2 spots to clerics to ENSURE their mega kangaskhan stays healthy

 

[ShadowMarioGalaxy64]

Let's look at the moves Kangaskhan would normally use.

Power-Up Punch
Crunch
Sucker Punch
Earthquake
Fire Punch
Return

Assuming Return and Power-Up Punch are staples, this leaves us with only two available move slots. Which are usually the combination of Sucker Punch/Earthquake, Sucker Punch/Crunch, Crunch/Earthquake.

The set lacking Sucker Punch can easily be taken out by faster Fighting Pokemon.
The set using Sucker Punch/Earthquake can be easily countered by any Flying/Levitating pokemon.
The set using Sucker Punch/Crunch can be countered by steel types that can deal enough damage back.

I'm sure everybody has already blabbed at you for your mistakes before me (I'd do it myself, but I had to take a test...damn college).

I didn't name mewtwo, Shadowmario did.

Your response was poorly worded. "Mega Kangaskhan's set can be scouted, therefore it isn't broken." All sets can be scouted in some way, so does that make everything not broken? Whether it be Mewtwo and scouting for the coverage moves, Deoxys-S and Deoxys-D for scouting its job, and just about every Pokemon has the capabilities of its job being revealed. In this logic, anything that can be scouted isn't broken, and everything can potentially be scouted, therefore nothing is broken.

Please...this is hard to understand for you, but...think, and...wait, why are we here? I can only imagine the mod cleanup being irritatingly tedious and in comes Haunter with a "Took too long and the Council is taking consideration and working on whether or not it should be banned. Nothing to add, so locking thread" post.

 

[Azure30]

So now what you've seen is a good indicator of what's common? How is that fair? Most teams I've seen have just slapped on MK because it is a powerful Pokemon, no support and just relying on MK to get a kill before dying, two at best. If a player were to build a team around MK and have a cleric and whatever it would be extremely hard to stop, but the same can be said for a lot of Pokemon in OU, so how is that relevant?

Also, telling me to shut up isn't gonna make me shut up. How do I, "have NO idea what 'I'm' talking about"? Because I said that running Fire Blast on MK isn't common, because I said that running TBolt on Gengar isn't common? Which are BOTH TRUE. It's not common, at least at the moment, to see a MK with Fire Blast and it's not common to see Gengar with TBolt(most run SludgeBomd/ShadowBall/DazzlingGleam/Sub(DBond)).

You really don't know what you're talking about though. The ban system assumes the pokemon in question are being used by high-ranked players against equally skilled high-ranked players. I know a girl who is absolutely retarded when it comes to pokemon, and an Arceus in her hands should probably sit firmly in the middle of RU. Do you think that should be where Arceus should go? Bad players have bad pokemon regardless of what they are. Mega Kangaskhan has ridiculous potential when used properly, and hell it doesn't really take much to pull that off either.

Like Uvood said, it's a one-man army that has an army. It's already ridiculous without support, so when you consider giving it support to cover its weaknesses, which you can count on one hand....

 

[DaiGuren]

If a player were to build a team around MK and have a cleric and whatever it would be extremely hard to stop, but the same can be said for a lot of Pokemon in OU, so how is that relevant?

No. Just no. MegaKhan, with enough support, is impossible(this is not an exageration) to stop. Why? Because there are no complete counters to it. Everything else that has been brought up, MegaKhan + support has answer to it. Rocky Helmet ferro suicided and dented MegaKhan badly? Healing Wish. MegaKhan is burned? Let's patch that up with Heal Bell/Aromatherapy. Terrakion/MegaLuke/Infernape puts MegaKhan in revenge-killing range? Again, Healing Wish. Everything else is OHKO'd-2HKO'd.

Now name one OU that can do that. I dare you. I double dare you. The closest thing that has no counters in OU is Hydreigon, and even that thing is walled by the two blobs.

 

[Uvood]

No. Just no. MegaKhan, with enough support, is impossible(this is not an exageration) to stop. Why? Because there are no complete counters to it. Everything else that has been brought up, MegaKhan + support has answer to it. Rocky Helmet ferro suicided and dented MegaKhan badly? Healing Wish. MegaKhan is burned? Let's patch that up with Heal Bell/Aromatherapy. Terrakion/MegaLuke/Infernape puts MegaKhan in revenge-killing range? Again, Healing Wish. Everything else is OHKO'd-2HKO'd.

Now name one OU that can do that. I dare you. I double dare you. The closest thing that has no counters in OU is Hydreigon, and even that thing is walled by the two blobs.

Well, mostly, when pokebank comes out, it gets superpower. With the right ev spread and combo of Draco and Suprpower, both blobs go down I believe. Still, Hydreigon is too slow, and a lot less bulky, so it's much easier too check offensively and defensively, especially since switching around actually pays of, since it gets progressively weaker and weaker.

Edit: also, insert fairy, unless it's running flash cannon, which two hit ko's.

 

[Azure Demon]

No. Just no. MegaKhan, with enough support, is impossible(this is not an exageration) to stop. Why? Because there are no complete counters to it. Everything else that has been brought up, MegaKhan + support has answer to it. Rocky Helmet ferro suicided and dented MegaKhan badly? Healing Wish. MegaKhan is burned? Let's patch that up with Heal Bell/Aromatherapy. Terrakion/MegaLuke/Infernape puts MegaKhan in revenge-killing range? Again, Healing Wish. Everything else is OHKO'd-2HKO'd.

Now name one OU that can do that. I dare you. I double dare you. The closest thing that has no counters in OU is Hydreigon, and even that thing is walled by the two blobs.

Gotta interject here. Carbink the god is a pretty sexy counter to this. Hydreigon. Actually, a lot of bulky fairies ruin his parade

 

[Orga777]

You know, lets give people the benefit of the doubt... Let us drop any status healers and Wish support in general on a team, and limited the Kangaskhan move set to have SP/Crunch/PuP/Return. Kangaskhan teamed with a Talonflame (to eat burns and/or set up priority Tailwinds), Rotom-W (Volt switching out and burning everything in sight while tanking hits and also ignoring burn), Excadrill w/Air Balloon (rapid spinner to clear hazards and has to be hit once to make it vulnerable to EQ). What do you do against this besides lose most of the time? I have faced this team quite a bit just over Wi-Fi, and is not infrequent. Add in the last two spots with whatever else you need. A ghost, a hazard lead, etc. etc. etc...

 

[XZ2H3000]

It seems that the anti-ban side forgets a couple of things:

1.- Kangaskhan can switch you know, it's not like mega evolving forces it to stay in so that it "loses" to its "counters"

2.- Kangaskhan is also used as a late-game sweeper, and that's when it's most deadly imo, so all the "counters" could have been taken down by that point, leaving you powerless against him

3.- It can be supported, like any other pokémon, so all the damage that the apparented 1# counter to MegaKanga is that is Rocky Hlemet, can be easily repaired with wish, ferrothorn can be trapped and killed by Magnezone, Talonflame can deal with faster fighting types, etc.

 

[Uvood]

You know, lets give people the benefit of the doubt... Let us drop any status healers and Wish support in general on a team, and limited the Kangaskhan move set to have SP/Crunch/PuP/Return. Kangaskhan teamed with a Talonflame (to eat burns and/or set up priority Tailwinds), Rotom-W (Volt switching out and burning everything in sight while tanking hits and also ignoring burn), Excadrill w/Air Balloon (rapid spinner to clear hazards and has to be hit once to make it vulnerable to EQ). What do you do against this besides lose?

Well, it's possible to win obv. Nothing is completely unbeatable, there are variables, the Kanga player can make mistakes, you can make good predictions. That's not too say the odds are not heavily stacked against you tho XD!