The Inverse Battle ǝɯɐƃɐʇǝɯ

[a__man]

Yeah, Virizion has the highest special defense of all fighting types, but losing 50% on switch-in and being less reliable than Chansey (which can take Hydreigon's Dark Pulse and Keldeo's Surf, for example) isn't that good of a trade-off. It's also the perfect set-up bait for Shell Smashers, most of whom resist both Grass and Fighting. It CAN take a boosted Giga Drain from Volcarona and OHKO back, so there's that... though Gogoat is still a better Volcarona counter.

Scrafty, Gallade and the Hitmon's have high SpD too... but one has x4 weakness to Dark, one has 68/65 physical bulk and the rest don't really want to be put in defensive roles (perhaps Assault Vest?).

 

[Rotosect]

Kyurem-B is horribly broken in inverse battles and needs a quickban in my opinion.
Outrage has perfect coverage besides other dragons, who are weak to Fusion Bolt. Avalugg is destroyed by Teravolt Ice Beam.
Its stats and excellent type are way too much for this metagame.

Edit - I just noticed ubers like Rayquaza and Skymin are allowed too. Gotta issue a few bans here.

 

[adman2]

Yeah, Black Kyurem is really strong. I had my Avalugg insta-killed by Ice Beam too (Ice Beam is this meta's equivalent of doing things like giving Garchomp Fire Blast). I also run into things like Kyogre and Attack Deoxys for some reason. It's still Uber Inverse Battles right now.

Also, use Facade on CB Diggersby. If it's statused, it can 2HKO Avaluggs when they switch in.

 

[Loudo]

Here's a list of the really obviously broken stuff still legal in Inverse Battles:

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Darkrai: Dark Void + Nasty Plot + Dark/Fighting perfect coverage + incredible Speed. +6 Dark Pulse 2HKOs Blissey. Seismic Toss is only a 4HKO with Leftovers.
Deoxys-A: Psychic is a wonderful type in Inverse.
Deoxys-N: Psychic is a wonderful type in Inverse.
Groudon: Except for the Stealth Rock weakness, it's the same as standard.
Kyogre: Tyranitar and specially defensive Hippowdon are pretty much the only good Pokémon that reliably check this thing.
Kyurem-B: Good typing, Teravolt, perfect coverage with Dragon move + Fusion Bolt (aside from Shedinja).
Kyurem-W: Good typing, Turboblaze, perfect coverage with Dragon move + Fusion Flare (aside from Shedinja).
Lugia: It's Lugia?
Mega Gengar: Celebi and Exeggutor are the only good Pokémon that resist Ghost + Poison. Perish Song can take care of most special walls.
Palkia: Dragon + Water perfect coverage (aside from Shedinja).
Rayquaza: It's Rayquaza?
Reshiram: Dragon + Fire perfect coverage (aside from Shedinja). Now resists Stealth Rock.
Shaymin-S: Take standard Shaymin-S and give Seed Flare a superb coverage.
Zekrom: Dragon + Electric perfect coverage (aside from Shedinja).

I think Dialga and Giratina are really the only Ubers that are open for debate. They went from having a wonderful typing to an atrocious one, so maybe some testing would be better before quickbanning them.

On an unrelated note, any hope that Flying-types will get their immunity to entry hazards soon? =(

 

[Klang]

Giratina-O I think has too much bulk and power for the meta. Ghost/Dragon is bad but it isn't that horrible considering it still has some notable resists in Dragon, Ice, Dark and Ghost. The Altered forme might be balanced somewhat, but I can see the Origin forme being too much to handle with its two excellent STABs (backed up by Griseous Orb, to boot) and the potential to go mixed. An attacker with mixed base 120 offensive stats and very reliable 150/100/100 bulk to fall back on means that even with those weaknesses it can take a hit and often OHKO back.

Dialga on the other hand also has strong 120/150 base offenses and an orb to boost the dangerous STABs it has but compared to Giratina its typing is so horrible, sporting a 4x weakness to grass among other things, that I think it could easily be balanced. A top-tier threat, but balanced.

 

[adman2]

I've never fought Giratina-O in my Inverse Battles. The legendaries and/or Ubers I tend to see are more frequently Attack Deoxys, Mew, and Black Kyurem.

I may have to "test" some of these "legal Ubers". . .MWA HA HA!

EDIT: In the true spirit of Inverse Battles, I actually lose MORE when I use Ubers. This is partly due to me being overconfident. But you also have to account for things like common weaknesses in Reverse Battles (Water, Ghost, Ice, Ground, Grass, even Psychic) and the fact that Ubers tend to be a bit slow.

Palkia doesn't have a good time against a X4 Water or Fire Attack. Lugia has to worry about powerful Earthquakes from Diggersby, or a 4X weakness to Fighting on the off chance someone has a Fighting attack (I've seen a few Machamps).

Darkrai can get off a Dark Void, but all those Shadow Balls and Psychics flying around give it bad dreams too.

Kyogre is more potent than some of the other Ubers, but Blissey is even stronger in Inverse Battles than she is in normal ones with the absence of the Fighting weakness in exchange for Ghost (which has weak physical options).

I haven't tried a Groudon based team yet, so I don't have anything to say about them yet. Still, beware of the Mega Blaziken. . .

 

[Klang]

I've never fought Giratina-O in my Inverse Battles. The legendaries and/or Ubers I tend to see are more frequently Attack Deoxys, Mew, and Black Kyurem.

That's because what's running amok at this time is several times better than Giratina-O. I meant Giratina-O might be broken once all the obviously broken stuff is banned.

 

[Loudo]

I agree that Giratina is probably still too good for OU. It has a few notable counters, like Lati@s, and Griseous Orb means it is quite prone to be worn down. But its stats are very impressive, and no type that hits Giratina super-effectively resists its attacks.

Dialga I'm 99% positive that it's not Uber material. It's worse than standard Kyurem-B in every way. It has worse stats and much much worse typing.

Palkia is 4x weak to Water and Fire attacks, but I honestly don't see many Water and Fire attacks in Inverse. The only Pokémon that commonly carry those moves are Dragon-types for coverage (which are going to take Palkia's Water attacks much worse). Water-types are weak to Water themselves, so they are no counters, and Fire-types are generally not very good.

adman2 raises a good point about Lugia. It gains a 4x weakness, which could be problematic for a wall. However, Fighting-types are very easy to wall and are weak to Stealth Rock (while Lugia is now resistant to it). I'd say they are going to be worn down much faster than Lugia is.

Darkrai may be weak to Psychic and Ghost, but they aren't really more common than Fighting is in standard. Also, Psychic- and Ghost-types are both weak to Fighting, while Fighting-types aren't weak to anything that standard Darkrai carries.
Standard Darkrai also has a move syndrome that Inverse Darkrai doesn't have. Fighting + Dark is literally unresisted in Inverse.
Bottom line, I think Darkrai only improves in IB.

Mega Blaziken, just like normal Blaziken, has one glaring problem: Ice-types. Ice-types resist both Fire and Fighting and hit back with SE attacks. The fact that Blaziken is now weak to Ice Shard and Sucker Punch doesn't do it any favors either.
Another smaller issue is that resistance to Fighting is quite common and it forces Blaziken to use Flare Blitz, wearing it down. The one time I happened to face a Blaziken without Ice-types in my team, I sacrificed one of my Normal-types to take Blaziken down with its own recoil.

EDIT: In the true spirit of Inverse Battles, I actually lose MORE when I use Ubers. This is partly due to me being overconfident.

I don't know what team you've been using, but I believe part of the problem could also be that Ubers tend to share similar weaknesses. A team with a couple of Ubers and then the rest of the slots dedicated to cover the Uber's shortcomings is probably going to perform better than a 6 Ubers team.

 

[adman2]

I really wish there was a Wifi Inverse Battle option. . .

Water might be more useful than you think. Grass types are weak to it here, and Tangrowth and Abomasnow are quite threatening. That, and Dragons are weak to it too.

Flying types can be hit by spikes now, rendering the Stealth Rock resistance moot.

I hardly ever see Lati@s, mainly because its defensive typing is crummy in Inverse.

Skymin on the other hand, is hilariously broken. Not much can resist a fast Seed Flare now. . .and even those that do won't like the Sp Def drop

 

[Albacore]

Water might be more useful than you think. Grass types are weak to it here, and Tangrowth and Abomasnow are quite threatening. That, and Dragons are weak to it too.

True, although Grass is generally the typing of choice to take care of Dragons. Also, an Ice weakness isn't necessarily a good thing. Still, Water seems to be one of those typings that's both good in Standard and Inverse.

I hardly ever see Lati@s, mainly because its defensive typing is crummy in Inverse.

Psychic is a really good defensive typing in Inverse, so I fail to see how Lat@s is any worse. It can outspeed a great chunk of Pokemon, and, if anything, Dragon is an even better offensive typing in Inverse than in Standard.
Then again, that low physical defense and Dragon typing (weakness to Grass is not good in Inverse) are troublesome.
Then again again, Lati@s resist Ice and Bug, two very common typings in Inverse.

Also...

Flying types can be hit by spikes now, rendering the Stealth Rock resistance moot.

Not true. Flying-types are still immune to Spikes. Which makes Defog much more viable in Inverse, I believe.

Skymin on the other hand, is hilariously broken.

No objections here. Is this thing not banned yet? It was already Uber with one of the worst defensive typings in the game. Now that Grass types are actually good, this is even more broken! (Although quad weakness against two of the most common attacking types in Inverse definitely isn't a good thing)

 

[adman2]

Maybe it's a glitch on the ladder, but I remember my Lugia being hit by Spikes before.

 

[Loudo]

I'm not saying Water attacks aren't good. Water is quite a good offensive type. In fact, that's one of the reasons Kyogre and Palkia are good.
What I was saying is that, from what I saw, Water attacks are mainly used by Water-types themselves. Other Pokémon tend to have better options. If I'm not mistaken, Ground, Electric, and Grass have more commonly widespread moves and are still SE against Grass-types.

Flying-types are supposed to be immune to Spikes & Co. It's been confirmed in game. But this error on Pokémon Showdown hasn't been corrected yet. (I'm guessing it's complicated because up until now being non grounded was the same as being immune to Ground.)

 

[Spenstar]

I really wish there was a Wifi Inverse Battle option. . .

THIS. Come on Gamefreak, a simple update to make Wifi Inverse a thing!

 

[DontStealMyPenguin]

-kyogre NEEDS to be banned purely because of sheer mindless power. I'm using it just because I can.
-Darkrai needs to be banned for exactly the same reasons it's banned from OU.
-Shaymin-sky is just ridiculous. (Obviously i'm using it, who wouldn't?)

-Lugia and articuno perform a toxic spreading wall job very well
-deoxys-attack's psycho boost is awesome, don't know why he's not banned
-chatot is pretty good with: nasty plot, substitute, chatter, boom burst (not even joking, i've late game swept with it many times)
-snorlax with: curse, return, rest, sleep talk is insanely powerful, it's the next best thing to arceus-normal and basically uncounterable
-Mega alakazam is good
-Tyranitar is much much better in inverse than it's ever been in OU. 7 resistances is scary. I currently use crunch, stealth rock, return, aqua tail, which works very well.
-Genesect is a good pivot still and probably slightly better in inverse than it is in OU.
-ok like chansey is amazing, don't know why i don't use it.

Playing this format, you can see how shit people are at thinking for themselves. They might be #1 at OU but seriously, I see people using full teams of normal types just because they are really good and are using no strategy or anything even at the higher standard of play.

In every other tier, there are counters for everything and it's mostly balanced, but the thing about inverse is that offensive normal types are basically uncounterable, which is insane. I'm loving this format right now but as the metagame builds up and standardises, it's just gonna get shit because everyone will be running the same shit, unlike in OU and ubers, as those tiers are balanced, even if everyone does use an xerneas in ubers or a rotom-wash in OU, it's still fun to play

 

[Loudo]

I just noticed that the December usage stats list has been published. Yay!

Let's take a look at the 1850 stats usage list:

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1. Avalugg (39,93% usage!)
2. Ambipom
3. Gengar
4. Chansey
5. Zygarde
6. Ditto
7. Snorlax
8. Yveltal
8. Salamence
9. Exploud
10. Diggersby
11. Cloyster
12. Reuniclus
13. Tangrowth
14. Breloom
15. Alakazam
16. Volcarona
17. Gothitelle
18. Mandibuzz
19. Garchomp
20. Greninja
21. Tyranitar
22. Mienshao
23. Gogoat
24. Slowking
25. Swellow

Compared to the November list we see same fake threats like Greninja finally drop down, while some incredibly good Pokémon finally get the fame they deserve (Reuniclus and Slowking are fantastic and they didn't even appear in the November top 25 list).
And finally, a top 25 list without Steel-types in it! =P

 

[Albacore]

This looks like a much better and more representative list of the real threats in Inverse. People are finally starting to realize that Chansey is mostly better than Blissey (and that steel really, really sucks).
Avalugg actually gained usage. Considering how high he was in the first place, that just blows my mind. Then again, there is no reason not to use it. It's not just the best physical wall in Inverse, it's also the only good one.
Ambipom kinda surprises me. I honestly think Cincinno is better, but that's just me. The only impressive thing about Aibipom is that over 100% of them have an empty moveslot, apparently.
The only other surprises for me are Salamence (I guess he's much better in Inverse than in Standard, though that never really occurred to me) and Breloom (I... don't really get it. Sure, Grass is good, Ice and Psychic resits are good, but Breloom got really badly nerfed this gen, and there are so many Grass-types roaming that block Spore. Then again, most Grass types are pretty slow, so Breloom can outspeed them and take them out, despite their low speed. I guess this really the only viable Fighting type in Inverse, although I'm not too sure why you'd want a fighting type in inverse in the first place, especially one walled by Cloyster and Diggersby, two of the most prominent offensive threats in Inverse).

 

[Loudo]

Well, Ambipom is probably used more because: 1) Last Resort is still popular and Ambipom's Last Resort is stronger; 2) Cinccino doesn't learn Fake Out; 3) Cinccino doesn't learn Switcheroo; 4) Ambipom's Technician U-turn is stronger than Cinccino's. Cinccino's only real advantage is Skill Link Bullet Seed, which unfortunately fails to 2HKO defensive Tangrowth.

I have never tried Breloom, but I can see why people use it. With some luck, it can put Avalugg to sleep, grab one Swords Dance without being phazed by Roar, and destroy it. Considering Grass-types are weak to Bullet Seed, there are actually few Grass-types that can switch into it willy nilly to absorb Spore.

 

[adman2]

Yes, Mega Alakazam is pretty good. It has enough special bulk to take at least one hit before dying, and it's fast with a good attacking type.

Articuno is a very annoying wall, especially since it gets Heal Bell. Prepare for a stally game if you see Articuno.

I use specially defensive Tyranitar to stop Kyogre in its tracks. Just beware of odd Returns and Extremespeeds.

Genesect is even better when you realize that U-Turn hits a ton of types' weaknesses now. ¡Es supereficaz!

Don't remind me of Curselax, please. It's hard to beat considering the Thick Fat still works to its advantage. I wouldn't agree with it being uncounterable though. Avalugg can Roar it out.

Chansey is even more of a pain when it doesn't have that Fighting weakness anymore. Why did GameFreak think giving it Natural Cure was a good idea?

Attack Deoxys doesn't tend to do all that much when I play against it. It crumples and dies against any form of attack, and priority makes it cry itself to sleep (anything with at least 60 power after STAB, or a Sucker Punch/Extreme Speed will do). Besides, Inverse Battles has much better walls than OU.

Consider using Scolipede for Toxic Spikes (and absorbing them) in addition to the improved Bug and Poison attacks.

EDIT: I see a lot more Cincinnos than Ambipoms. Skill Link is a siren call it seems. . .

 

[Albacore]

Well, Ambipom is probably used more because: 1) Last Resort is still popular and Ambipom's Last Resort is stronger

Wow, did not know that Ambipom learnt Last Resort. Explains the whole empty moveslot thing.

 

[Rotosect]

Unfortunately inverse battles is full of people who try it with their standard OU team just for the lulz so the usage stats are still way off from what they should be.

 

[Loudo]

Well, the list I posted is the 1850 stats list. So those were the most commonly used Pokémon by people who were good enough to reach that rank. I'd say it's quite representative.

Do remember however that Yveltal was legal for most of the month, while Pokébank opened like in the last 5 days. So this list isn't going to be representative of the new post-Pokébank metagame, but it's a really good representation of the metagame we now leave behind ourselves.

 

[a__man]

Kyogre got used in a week more than Articuno did in a month. I find that strangely amusing.

Articuno's actually really good defensively, even with a weakness to ground and grass.

 

[Rotosect]

Here's my thoughts on the types as whole in the current metagame, feel free to disagree if you wish...

Normal: the best offensive type but defensively it's rather average because it lacks resistances besides fighting.
Fire: pretty mediocre offensively and really bad defensively, though it does resist Stealth Rock so a few pokemon with a better secondary type like Volcarona can benefit from it.
Water: not as bad as I thought. It has two useful resistances (especially Grass) and decent neutral coverage. Being able to beat grass types is a big plus.
Grass: a metagame-defining type, which makes grass, water, electric and ground moves more common than usual, so defensively it isn't as good as it should be. Offensively it is one of the best types though.
Electric: Decent offensively, but only 1 resistance and 3 weaknesses, though only 2 of them really matter (lol Steel).
Ice: the best defensive type and surprisingly enough it's also pretty good offensively because it's the only type SE against ice, making ice attacks a necessity for most teams.
Psychic: it's very close to Gen 1 Psychic, having excellent neutral coverage and relatively uncommon weaknesses.
Ground: thanks to its advantage against grass, it's decent both offensively and defensively, though the SR weakness hurts.
Rock: the second or third worst defensive type because of its Normal weakness, and offensively it isn't that good since it's resisted by common ice, bug and flying types.
Flying: a pretty bad type. It's weak to ground, grass and bug and it's SE only against steel, electric and rock, 3 uncommon and defensively poor types.
Bug: very similiar to grass, though slightly worse offensively in exchange for a better defensive type. Overall one of the top 5 types.
Ghost: it has an awful normal weakness, but it's strong offensively and it's notable for being the only type SE against normal. Unfortunately Shadow Ball and Shadow Claw don't quite cut it against defensive behemoths like Chansey and Snorlax. Overall it's pretty mediocre.
Dark: an average type much like in singles, except its relationship with Psychic and Fighting types are reversed. Overall a decent type.
Steel: to call it "the ice type of inverse battles" is an insult to ice types. Not only is it utterly atrocious defensively, but it's terrible offensively as well. Avoid steel types unless you have a very good reason to use them. At least they can make good use of Weakness Policy...
Poison: the true ice type of inverse battles. Excellent offensively, though resisted by an important type (Grass), below average defensively, though resistant to another important type (Psychic).
Fighting: actually pretty good both offensively and defensively besides the SR weakness. Being the only type that truly counters Psychic types is also a plus.
Dragon: one of the best offensive types, resisted only by itself. Defensively it's rather average and the grass weakness is especially troublesome. Overall a solid type.
Fairy: pretty bad. It's SE against uncommon types and resisted by the common dragons. Its common weaknesses do it no favors either. It does have decent neutral coverage though.

 

[DontStealMyPenguin]

If you put avalugg and chansey on the same team, you have a very solid defensive core that deals with status, hazards, boosting pokemon, physical attacks and special attacks. It does, however, get beaten by non-scarved shaymin sky. Non scarved shaymin sky, however gets pulverised by my scarved kyogre. I also have rocks support and a counter to specs kyogre in tyranitar. Obviously, I run shaymin sky, mainly because it's insanely good and also to beat the Avablob combo. Finally, I have my sweeper in snorlax.
I've barely played any games, especially with this team, but I'm unbeaten with a 2200+ rank so far using it. Tell me what you think.

Also, I think this AvaBlob combo is gonna get so standard that everyone will run shaymin-sky and then he's gonna get banned lol.

 

[Klang]

ChansLugg was already very popular before Ubers infested the tier, I doubt the Ubers arriving would make them lose any usage seeing as walling Ubers is even more difficult without them.