I personally run the first one so that when people think they can get away with running a non max speed version that they will at least speed tie. Sure most people don't bring talonflame in on talonflame but I've had at least a hand full of occasions where max speed won me battles and I doubt very much that those few extra HP matter a great deal. Unless someone can show relevant calcs that prove they do.
-
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
-
Congrats to the winners of the 2023 Smog Awards!
Pokémon Talonflame
- Thread starter TaBuu
- Start date
- Status
Anybody tried acrotaunt talonflame? Lololol
TauntSD@Liechi Berry
88 HP / 252 ATK / 4 SP.DEF / 164 SPEED
Adamant, Gale Wings
-Acrobatics
-Substitute
-Swords Dance
-Taunt
Evs outspeed base 100+s, while giving it an odd hp number
One-trick pony works like this:
Sub up, then dance up. If anything tries to phaze u just taunt them in the face. Then repeat until u get +1 more atk from liechi. Sweep with itemless acro TROLOLOLOLO
Requires bird-resists to be removed. This talonflame loves rocks, putting it in liechi range more easily.
TauntSD@Liechi Berry
88 HP / 252 ATK / 4 SP.DEF / 164 SPEED
Adamant, Gale Wings
-Acrobatics
-Substitute
-Swords Dance
-Taunt
Evs outspeed base 100+s, while giving it an odd hp number
One-trick pony works like this:
Sub up, then dance up. If anything tries to phaze u just taunt them in the face. Then repeat until u get +1 more atk from liechi. Sweep with itemless acro TROLOLOLOLO
Requires bird-resists to be removed. This talonflame loves rocks, putting it in liechi range more easily.
Last edited:
I have Talonflame on my Sunny Day team. It doesnt carry Sunny Day itself, its more of an expendable Switch in or Revenger. Heres how i use it:
Talonflame@Life Orb
252Atk/4Def/252Spe
Adamant Nature
Abilizy: Gale Wings
-Brave Bird
-Flare Blitz
-Roost
-U-Turn
Straightforward set, U-Turn to do damage but not take a hit if needed. Roostbecause of Life Orb and the recoiled STABs.
What do you think?
Talonflame@Life Orb
252Atk/4Def/252Spe
Adamant Nature
Abilizy: Gale Wings
-Brave Bird
-Flare Blitz
-Roost
-U-Turn
Straightforward set, U-Turn to do damage but not take a hit if needed. Roostbecause of Life Orb and the recoiled STABs.
What do you think?
That thing has recoil up the wazoo after all of Brave Birding and Flare Blitzing paired with Life Orb. Roost will only take Talon so far, and that thing WILL get exhausted. To remedy this, the preferred item will be a Sharp Beak. This allows it to still hit with power using the main move Brave Bird while not accumulating a lot of recoil. It's not a loss as Flare Blitz will be rarely used in application, and it still hurts when boosted by the sun.
Or we can just slap a Choice Band and be done with it since Talon will get more power in exchange for less recoil and the inability to switch moves. Just three moves are what it needs (BB, FB, U-turn) and it can do anything it wants with the fourth, in which it has Roost. The extra power from CB helps a lot when revenging and cleaning, which is what you would want to play it anyway.
I use this:
Talonflame @SharpBeak
Adamant Nature
EVs: 252 Atk, 252 Speed, 4 HP
- Brave Bird
- Flare Blitz
- Roost
- Taunt
Talonflame is a fast pokemon who is easy to wall. Taunt is a move who is good on fast pokemon and is useful against walls. Do the match, and factor in the fact that absolutely nobody expects Taunt on Talonflame, and you get this monster. You can use it against set up sweepers who think they can set up for free, against Gliscor who thinks he's got a free Toxic, or against anything who thinks they got to set up rocks for free.
Roost makes it able to come back later even if I don't remove rocks, and the other two are standard business.
This match I just played gives a good illustration of what this monster can do:
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-98485733
Talonflame @SharpBeak
Adamant Nature
EVs: 252 Atk, 252 Speed, 4 HP
- Brave Bird
- Flare Blitz
- Roost
- Taunt
Talonflame is a fast pokemon who is easy to wall. Taunt is a move who is good on fast pokemon and is useful against walls. Do the match, and factor in the fact that absolutely nobody expects Taunt on Talonflame, and you get this monster. You can use it against set up sweepers who think they can set up for free, against Gliscor who thinks he's got a free Toxic, or against anything who thinks they got to set up rocks for free.
Roost makes it able to come back later even if I don't remove rocks, and the other two are standard business.
This match I just played gives a good illustration of what this monster can do:
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-98485733
Last edited:
I had an idea last night for a totally gimmicky set that could be used to troll other players. I call it...the Zap Trap.
Talonflame
Ability: Gale Wings
Item: Sharp Beak/Sky Plate
Adamant/Jolly Nature
EVs: 252 Atk/Spd, 4 HP
Brave Bird
Flare Blitz
Roost
U-Turn
The idea is to bluff a Choice Band with Brave Bird, then wait for your opponent to send in an Electric-type when its low on health. Since Gale Wings is a priority move, it will basically give you a priority Roost that removes Talonflame's Electric weakness for one turn, causing the Electric attack to only do neutral damage. After that, Flare Blitz it. U-Turn is there for if your opponent sends out a Water or Rock-type instead of the predicted Electric-Type.
Something tells me that this will wind up being one of those sets that looks good on paper, but doesn't really work all that well in reality. But if it does work, imagine the look on your opponent's face!
Creative to say the least but looking at the defenses of Talonflame and the common OU electric types that plague the OU metagame such as Rotom Wash, Mega Manetric, Thundurus Incarnate and Raikou, their STAB Thunderbolts and Volt Switches will be doing a hefty amount of damage on Talonflame regardless of whether or not Tflame has a electric weaknesses or not.
Okay what?
I understand that it doesn't have good bulk nor attack, but saying that it's bad is downright stupid. Flying/Fire/U-Turn is almost unresisted, and Brave Bird's sheer power of 180 (factoring STAB) makes up for low attack. Not only that, it can run Choice Band to get an instant +1 boost. Did I mention Gale Wings can be used to support your team with Tailwind? And did I also mention that it can boost with Swords Dance?
You also have nothing to support your statement, all you basically said was "Talonflame is too weak as there are too many Pokemon that stop it". Now name Pokemon that can successfully switch in on a Brave Bird, U-Turn, and Flare Blitz other then Heatran. The few things that can switch into it in OU are powerful tanks such as Chansey, and Hippowdown.
Also, name what can actually do well in UU against Talonflame? Just about nothing, only Suicune can successfully counter Talonflame, Slowbro can't becuase of a magical thing called "U-Turn"(I know BB is stronger, but it's obviously safer to go for U-Turn). Sorry if I'm being too mean but what you just said is pretty stupid.
Last edited:
I disagree. The one I've been using, which just has its regular Ability, is able to move fast and hit hard, sometimes causing burns on my opponents. And it seems to me if it has its Hidden Ability, provided you've invested in enough bulk, you could easily get a priority Roost to extend its lifespan long enough to really annoy your opponent.
Seriously, I can't help but wonder if you're trolling, or if you're just not very intelligent.
I can understand why people are dissuaded from using Talonflame. On paper, it looks like a shitty gimmick pokemon: cool ability but it has weak stats, a 4x SR weakness, dependent on recoil moves, has a relatively small movepool, and it is very one dimensional. In execution, Talonflame puts in a lot work in a game if you play smart and has plenty of good options to curtail it to your team's needs. Brave Bird is the bread and butter of all talonflame sets ofc (see what I did there). IIRC because of the large base power difference (180 vs 120) Talonflame's BB is on par or close to Normal-Arceus' Extremespeed. The high speed + priority of Talonflame's Brave Bird can dig you out of pretty much any hole vs offensive threats. Will-o-Wisp and Taunt means Talonflame has good options for bulkier targets despite its lack of raw power. We saw priority Tailwind do some real work for BW rain teams from Tornadus-I. It will only be a matter of time before most people really catch wind of how good of an option it is to throw on Talonflame for offensive teams.
edit: dkkc19 most likely not. Talonflame needs as much power to revenge kill threats as possible. Not only do you have the power drop from 120 base power to 110, but subsequent Acrobatics hits don't get boosted by an item. Note: gems this generation are only a 1.3x boost, the same as life orb. Only normal gem is out.
edit: dkkc19 most likely not. Talonflame needs as much power to revenge kill threats as possible. Not only do you have the power drop from 120 base power to 110, but subsequent Acrobatics hits don't get boosted by an item. Note: gems this generation are only a 1.3x boost, the same as life orb. Only normal gem is out.
Last edited:
Brave Bird is definitely the superior option on Choice Band sets. However, Acrobatics + Flying Gem is very much worth using on Bulk Up and Swords Dance set due to a lack of recoil, and being close to Brave Bird in terms of damage output after the Gem has been exhausted.
I definitely think Adamant is the way to go. When you think about it, Talonflame can destroy most everything in OU with priority brave bird. The Steel type mons that resist brave bird can be taken out by flare blitz. Talonflame outspeeds every Steel type pokemon in OU that is unboosted. If Brave Bird is your go to attack, then the extra speed isn't really necessary. The adamant boost turns many 2hkos into ohkos, which is absolutely vital when considering its low bulk.
Mhm, we've discussed this earlier in the thread that Adamant TFlame is easily better because you're using Priority, so using Jolly is almost a waste (Unless you really want to outspeed Thundurus-I).
You should run 208 Speed to outrun Max Speed Jolly Pinsir, and rest into HP. It even puts the HP at an odd number - so it works out just great! Just a suggestion though, but if you don't want to take it I won't feel offended, I just help around ;P
If you're just creeping M-Pinsir, why not just max it all around? Seriously, 48HP isn't really saving games. A full Speed Adamant set outspeeds Lati@s and anything in range by a point, meaning you can U-turn merrily away and chip off a safe 73% (band) from its health. This also allows you to clean more safely with Flare Blitz instead of Brave Bird if the situation arises, which can really break games.
Q: What does this outspeed? Just curious.
I personally feel like running the investment into hp isn't all that helpful most of the time talonflame is going to be brought in for a late game sweep when its checks have been washed away so i would rather put the investment to max out speed and attack with adamant nature, yes you can make the argument you dont need make speed when brave bird is priority but when flare blitz is need and you need to outspeed a certain pokemon the hp investment won't be of much use to you.
You outspeed Jolly Excadrill with 60 Spe EVs and all base 90 with 76 Spe EVs. With that spread you should outspeed base 89, but I can't remember any mon with that speed right now-
Max speed allows you to safely u-turn out of latias/Latios which is huge
You just have to rely on your predictions. Low HP means you'll not take down more than 2 mons.
Also, Overheat is an option on Swords Dance Sets, to OHKO Ferrothorn (The OHKO is avoided if the Ferrothorn has full investment in SpD and has a SpD-boosting nature, but that's really rare, almost only theoretical). You don't get the nasty Recoil + Rocky Helmet + Iron Barbs damage and can take on even more mons.
Talonflame vs Ferrothorn
0 SpA Talonflame Overheat vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Ferrothorn: 288-340 (81.8 - 96.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 SpA Talonflame Overheat vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Ferrothorn: 312-372 (88.6 - 105.6%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO
0 SpA Talonflame Overheat vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Ferrothorn: 384-456 (109 - 129.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
But you have to predict right, as most Ferrothorns switch into a Brave Bird to rake up the said damage.
Overheat also KOs Aegislash on Blade Formé and it's especially useful because you don't have to worry about King's Shield Attack drop. Here are some calculations:
Talonflame vs Aegislash
0 SpA Talonflame Overheat vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Aegislash-Shield: 116-140 (35.8 - 43.2%)
-2 0 SpA Talonflame Overheat vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Aegislash-Blade: 120-144 (37 - 44.4%)
So you have no scope of KOing a Specially Defensive Aegislash if you use Overheat when it's in Shield Formé. But here's the calculation for the 252 HP / 4 SpD variant, which is really the most commonly used Aegislash spread:
0 SpA Talonflame Overheat vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Aegislash-Shield: 152-182 (46.9 - 56.1%)
-2 0 SpA Talonflame Overheat vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Aegislash-Blade: 188-224 (58 - 69.1%)
Rest assured, you can always OHKO an Aegislash in Blade Forme with the usual 252 HP / 4 SpD variant.
Last edited:
lol. They are not scarfed. They attack before you because gale wing gives flying type attacks +1 priority.
Whoa! Shots fired! In actuality you are sort-of right; my post was lacking. However it was not meant as a troll, so I guess that means that I'm not very intelligent?
Even though roost has priority, Talonflame is still frail enough were it is always beneficial to attack instead of heal, unless you can predict a switch. In which case, sure, go ahead.
Why are you running a flame body set? Talonflame loses half of what made it big because you are using an ability that won't come into affect very often.
- Status