+2 Earthquake cannot 2HKO unless Rocks are up, and even then Slowbro can just Slack Off and proceed to fire off a Scald that can do nearly 50% back to uninvested Zard X.
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Other ORAS OU Viability Ranking Thread - Check post #2359
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Housekeeping here, please put all your responses together so they don't clutter up the thread. Thanks, and welcome to Smogon!
IMO mega Latias should move up to S. It's an awesome offensive cm user with reliable recovery, excellent STAB, good speed and defog support, and tanks hits extraordinarily well with a spdef stat almost as high as goodra but with more defense.
So I saw what I believe to be a fantastic mega swampert argument, but I think it may be worthy to go from B+ to A, possibly A+ because of this set that I like to run:
Adamant, 252 atk, 156 spe and the rest in HP.
This one doesn't rely on drizzle setters or other rain, it sets it up itself:
Rain dance
Waterfall
EQ
Ice punch
With these speed EVs it out speeds a timid mega Sceptile in rain. Turn 1 you mega and set up the rain and then you sweep until the rain is out. This is viable against every lead but a grass type, against which you can easily switch out into any SS or fire types that you will have. Water/ground STAB+ one single weakness to grass (which can be countered with ice punch)+ the ability to run adamant+ decent defenses makes it a really good pokemon on a rain team, with the ability to set up its own rain.
Adamant, 252 atk, 156 spe and the rest in HP.
This one doesn't rely on drizzle setters or other rain, it sets it up itself:
Rain dance
Waterfall
EQ
Ice punch
With these speed EVs it out speeds a timid mega Sceptile in rain. Turn 1 you mega and set up the rain and then you sweep until the rain is out. This is viable against every lead but a grass type, against which you can easily switch out into any SS or fire types that you will have. Water/ground STAB+ one single weakness to grass (which can be countered with ice punch)+ the ability to run adamant+ decent defenses makes it a really good pokemon on a rain team, with the ability to set up its own rain.
I'm actually on board with moving up Glalie; however, I'm just not sure where. Glalie is a very tough call. On one hand it has horrible stats pre-Mega Evolving, is still somewhat slow after Mega Evolving, and it has an opportunity cost to using it. On the other, it is incredibly powerful and hits insanely hard, Refrigerate is fantastic! I've been running a simple set of Double-Edge / Freeze-Dry / Earthquake / [Ice Shard / Spikes / Explosion] and it is such a fantastic wallbreaker. With this moveset, nothing safely switches in. This breaks all of Chansey, Skarmory, Rotom-W, Heatran, and Mega Venusaur. These are just a few examples, but seriously nothing switches in safely. Double-Edge is such a phenomenal move and is what makes its wallbreaking so fantastic. Double-Edge is really strong and 2HKOes both Skarmory and Mega Sableye. However, it's bulk is really poor and its Speed is such a problem. Overall, I feel that B- is a fair ranking for it, but I can totally see it in C+. Either way, it deserves to move up.
And is either destroyed by status or dark types.
Destroyed by dark types? True Latinas hates tyranitar, mega gyara ninja and bisharp with a passion, but tyran and bhisharp are checked or countered comfortably. Status it's an issue for every Pokemon in S, is it more so for Latias, not really, is a problem? Yes.
Should Latias be s rank in it's mega form? No. While Latias certainly is a extremely well blended calm mind user it's not with out its faults. Mentioned above it's not too fond of dark types as per most psychics, despite impressive 80/120/150 bulk, Latias fears them as inpitite of impressive bulk even greninja can handle her with relative impunity 2 koing her, even after a calm mind. Leaving it all to her team mates to deal with them as she suffers extreme 4 mss, from cm and recovery taking up 2 slots. She also takes up a mega slot, always a hinderence but Latias her self would mind pairing up with fellow megas to support her sweep such as gross or diance leaving her with non mega perhaps at times inferior options.
It is of course however true that Lati poses a serious threat as a mega. Mentioned before impressive 80/120/150 defences, bloistered with 130 SpA and 110 speed make her a statistical powerhouse of bulk speed and attack. Add to this reliable recover a stellar typing, and a great alibieght one dimensionally used move pool and you've got quite the threat. Her calm mind set once her counters are gone sets up with impunity and add this ability with stored power and it just gg's.
But alas combine her hard counters/checks, limited sets as Latios and her non mega can run others better, talking up a mega slot and 4mss. She falls short of s rank due to the weight of these factors not meeting the definition mentioned (on phone can c and p to quote it easily).
Should Latias be s rank in it's mega form? No. While Latias certainly is a extremely well blended calm mind user it's not with out its faults. Mentioned above it's not too fond of dark types as per most psychics, despite impressive 80/120/150 bulk, Latias fears them as inpitite of impressive bulk even greninja can handle her with relative impunity 2 koing her, even after a calm mind. Leaving it all to her team mates to deal with them as she suffers extreme 4 mss, from cm and recovery taking up 2 slots. She also takes up a mega slot, always a hinderence but Latias her self would mind pairing up with fellow megas to support her sweep such as gross or diance leaving her with non mega perhaps at times inferior options.
It is of course however true that Lati poses a serious threat as a mega. Mentioned before impressive 80/120/150 defences, bloistered with 130 SpA and 110 speed make her a statistical powerhouse of bulk speed and attack. Add to this reliable recover a stellar typing, and a great alibieght one dimensionally used move pool and you've got quite the threat. Her calm mind set once her counters are gone sets up with impunity and add this ability with stored power and it just gg's.
But alas combine her hard counters/checks, limited sets as Latios and her non mega can run others better, talking up a mega slot and 4mss. She falls short of s rank due to the weight of these factors not meeting the definition mentioned (on phone can c and p to quote it easily).
I'm not for putting Mega Latias in S, but I'm not for keeping it out. Even S Pokémon have counters, but every OU Pokémon needs support, that's what keeps them out of Ubers. It's the amount of checks a Pokémon has and the moves that go with its typing and ability. I think we'll need better reasons than some checks. But, I am inexperienced with this particular Pokémon, I'm just stating that I think a stronger argument must be made.
Finally somebody understands. I see so many people wanting to lower certain Pokemon because they have a few walls and counters. Even S rank Pokemon have a few counters. That's what keeps them out of Ubers is it not? Isn't not having any walls or counters what landed MegaMence in Ubers? Exactly.
Simply put. . . No, that isn't THE reason. Hydreigon had no counters in BW, yet it never left OU. It's a combination of things. If that were the only reason, Ninja would be gone within the next week or so.
Gonna agree with the Altaria nomination Valmanway brought up.
It's versatility is what really makes it a threat, and while a lot of teams might be able to beat every individual set, but a check to mixed (let's say stallbreaking mew) could be beaten by a DD + heal bell set, or heatran could be bobbed by a EQ.
Mega altaria can pretty much be customized to fit into every team, and almost regardless of how you tweak it, it can easily sweep with dd and pixilate return only, giving you two "free" moveslots to deal with some of its counters. And if your team already deal with its counters, roost and substitute can always add to its longevity, it also have access to heal bell, making it even easier to deal with pesky status users.
It's versatility is what really makes it a threat, and while a lot of teams might be able to beat every individual set, but a check to mixed (let's say stallbreaking mew) could be beaten by a DD + heal bell set, or heatran could be bobbed by a EQ.
Mega altaria can pretty much be customized to fit into every team, and almost regardless of how you tweak it, it can easily sweep with dd and pixilate return only, giving you two "free" moveslots to deal with some of its counters. And if your team already deal with its counters, roost and substitute can always add to its longevity, it also have access to heal bell, making it even easier to deal with pesky status users.
Mew is not really very good anymore- it was really hurt by some changes brought by ORAS. Sableye for one is a complete counter in the way that a counter to Mew never existed before. Before Charizard-Y or Houndoom was probably the best counter, but even then stealth rock and such brought them down and they were not as resilient (or to be blunt: good) as Sableye, and they could be taunted, etc. Gallade more or less replacing Medicham is another annoying shift, because Gallade has Knock Off which really destroys Mew. Mew kind of rose to power because it could check Medicham among other things, and now that era is over, Mew should fall. Because Dark/Poison is good coverage, Greninja is also running dark moves a lot more now, so that is also bad for Mew. In the same vein, Gyarados can now hit Mew twice as hard whereas before Mew could usually burn it and stall it out. For the little that they are worth, Beedrill hurts Mew and so does Camerupt, but to be fair that's pretty minor. If all these mons are absent, Mew is as good as it was before... but that's a lot to ask. It's important to note that Sableye is the stall mega that is usually used, and Mew was supposed to break stall. If it can't break the most prominent form of stall, it's not a stallbreaker anymore. I know Mew is technically already in A, but I think it should drop a bit more. It can't break stall and it has a lot of new challenges.
Raikou and Manectric are pretty similar, so I think it's acceptable to discuss both in the same paragraph. Manectric used to be a really solid mon, but I feel like a lot of that is gone. The opportunity cost for a mega is enormous right now, there are simply so many choices that choosing Manectric requires a pretty specific team because most teams can slap on Raikou or Magnezone instead and do just fine. Manectric was known for an amazing speed tier- but that speed tier is no longer super impressive. Lopunny ties it, Sceptile outspeeds it, and Beedrill outspeeds it. None of these are massive metagame forces, but the stray mons that Manectric is outsped by adds up. Also, there are some new megas that Manectric does kind of poorly against. Swampert is a complete hard counter, and Latias really doesn't care what Manectric does. It never was really very strong, but that has just gotten worse because Altaria has largely replaced Dragonite which means that even with stealth rock up Manectric can not revenge kill everything. Raikou on the other hand is much stronger with Choice Specs or much bulkier with an Assault Vest. Also- no opportunity cost at all! It misses the speed to some degree and misses Flamethrower, but it is pretty fast and Shadow Ball has its uses. 115 is actually an amazing speed tier because it is enough to edge out Metagross-Mega, Gallade-Mega, Latios, Thundurus, and Diancie-Mega. Specs Raikou does at least 76% to Gallade and at least 73% to uninvested Metagross. If you don't want me to talk about Shadow Ball, it does up to 60% to Diancie. On the other hand, Manectric maxes out at 45% on Diancie, 61% on Metagross (that's Flamethrower, Overheat maxes out at 88%), and 47% to Gallade. There is a huge power difference and difference in opportunity cost. Manectric is faster and has fire moves, but Raikou is almost as good and doesn't require a mega slot. I think they are about equally viable, and Raikou should move up anyways. It's used all the time by top players, I wouldn't be surprised in the slightest if it went OU in a few months.
I agree Mega Glalie is much better than what it seems on paper and unlike popular belief its purpose in life s NOT just going boom. Its Double-Edges are extremely powerful and Ice Shard is a valuable priority move in a metagame full of frail ice-weak sweepers such as Mega Sceptile. It's pretty much a more physically-oriented Kyurem-Black, though it sacrifies bulk and coverage for a better speed tier and more powerful/useful ice attacks. I support B- rank for Mega Glalie.
P.S. Here's a replay showing the kind of offensive support M-Glalie can provide early in the match: http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-187991615
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Even with great bulk it's weak to Fairy and Priority Ice, I'm on board with moving it up to A+ but if you're suggesting S then in the offensive DD sweeping department it's outclassed by Megazard X's better offensive typing, stats, and ability. It is more of a defensive DD sweeper and should be used as such.
I use Beedrill and i think it need to go to B+. His Speed tier is amazing, he has a strong U-Turn who can wear down some common Pokemons like Landorus-T, Ferrothorn. Indeed, it is often understimated. He needs a pivot like Rotom-W to take priority hits, and a Spinner / Defogger for hazards controls. I think it need less support than other B, like Omstar, Lucario. Against different playstyles :
Against HO : if it comes against a thing who has no priority, it probably gets a kill.
Against Bulky Offense : it can wear down pivots like Ferrothorn, Rotom-W, Landorus-T, make easier for teammates to sweep opponent's team.
Against Balanced : Idem to Bulky Offense
Against Stall : if the opponent has a Skarmory, this thing is completely useless.
As you see, he is very good against common archetypes.
Against HO : if it comes against a thing who has no priority, it probably gets a kill.
Against Bulky Offense : it can wear down pivots like Ferrothorn, Rotom-W, Landorus-T, make easier for teammates to sweep opponent's team.
Against Balanced : Idem to Bulky Offense
Against Stall : if the opponent has a Skarmory, this thing is completely useless.
As you see, he is very good against common archetypes.
The thing about Mega Altaria right now is that it's eminently unpredictable. All it really needs to sweep is Dragon Dance + fairy STAB, and its remaining two moves can be setup to beat just about anything. When you bring Altaria out, your opponent has no idea if you're running an all-out offensive set, a defensive hybrid, a fully defensive set, or whether it's even running Dragon Dance at all. You don't know if it can pierce your subs with Hyper Voice, whether burning it will actually make it stronger (if it runs Facade), etc. I've even run into a few Altarias that have run Sing in conjunction with DD to anticipate steel switch ins, and it's annoying as hell.
It is in no way outclassed by Megazard X. The two perform go about sweeping in different ways, but are both incredibly deadly when they get there, and not that difficult to set up.
As for fearing ice priority, there isn't a priority ice user in the game that can OHKO Mega Altaria.
244 Atk Life Orb Mamoswine Ice Shard vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Altaria: 156-187 (53.6 - 64.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Life Orb Weavile Ice Shard vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Altaria: 151-179 (51.8 - 61.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Weavile fails to even 2HKO if Altaria is running a defensive orientation:
252 Atk Life Orb Weavile Ice Shard vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Altaria: 151-179 (42.6 - 50.5%) -- 0.4% chance to 2HKO
Meanwhile, Altaria more than comfortably OHKOs:
+1 252+ Atk Pixilate Altaria Return vs. 0 HP / 24 Def Weavile: 872-1028 (310.3 - 365.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+1 252+ Atk Pixilate Altaria Return vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mamoswine: 382-451 (106.4 - 125.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
As for fearing fairy moves, Altaria is able to OHKO every relevant fairy user in OU currently:
+1 252+ Atk Pixilate Altaria Return vs. 228 HP / 0 Def Azumarill: 382-451 (95.9 - 113.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
+1 252+ Atk Pixilate Altaria Return vs. 252 HP / 220+ Def Sylveon: 309-364 (78.4 - 92.3%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+1 252+ Atk Pixilate Altaria Return vs. 0 HP / 24 Def Mega Gardevoir: 436-514 (157.4 - 185.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
A few nominations (most of this has probably already been said, I'm not reading through this entire thread to see what has):
Charizard-X S ---> S: It's the best Dragon Dancer in the tier post-Mence, and it's Special Defense-WoW set is a pain to deal with. A big advantage it has over Mega Altaria (biggest Dragon Dance competition imo) is that it doesn't get revenge killed by Landorus-T. It's offensive DD sets also outspeed every new mega, and Jolly Aero/Timid Zam. Another advantage to using Char-X is that it's also an effective way of getting past Mega Sableye stall teams, Char-X actually uses MegaEye as set-up bait.
Mega Gyarados A ---> A+: Mega Bagworm is great with Crunch. Water/Dark is a great STAB combo, and it's got enough speed and bulk to create a lot of set-up opportunities. It can also run Jolly and outspeed every new Mega after a DD. +Speed base 150's can revenge kill, but anything below that can't. +1 Jolly Gyara can also OHKO Sceptile and Beedrill, and stands a good shot at OHKOing Lopunny. Dark STAB made him a lot better, and it's stallbreaking ability also received a boost because Crunch is a lot more spammable than Earthquake against Water resists (basically Ferrothorn, but there are a few others). It also can set-up on Sableye and Mega Slowbro regardless if it carries Sub or Taunt, which is something that can't be understated.
Mega Aerodactyl: A- ---> A: Great revenge killer. It's got a ton of options movewise, the speed to outrun everything, and decent defensive typing on top of that. It's also got a really customizable movepool and three great non-attacking moves in Hone Claws, Roost and Taunt. Running Jolly is the better option over Adamant btw. You want to straight outspeed Sceptile, Lopunny and Beedrill even if Aero has the bulk to take a hit. The stallbreaker Aero set is still very good as well, if you adjust the speed for the new Megas running around.
Chesnaught B ---> B+: Drain Punch is a great upgrade over Hammer Arm, and Chesnaught checks a ton of important threats. Lando-T, Mega Gyarados, Excadrill and Mega Lopunny are the best examples of this, but there's a lot of them out there. If also beats Ferrothorn better than just about anything out there mostly because it can't be touched by Leech Seed or Gyro Ball.
Mega Sableye A- ---> A+: I could actually see this in S, but A+ is a very good start. Everyone else has talked about how it's the face of ORAS Stall, but it can also be a great asset to Balance teams. Those teams love having the extra hazard control, and Sableye also provides a great win-con, especially against Stall teams.
Mega Beedrill B ---> B+: Very... decent. It does it's jobs well, but also has a ton of short comings. The STABs are fairly easy to wall, and it almost always has to carry Protect. It has a tough decision to make between running Knock Off and Drill run in the last moveslot, and depending on what it runs it gains a decent number of new checks. It's also hard checked by Skarm and Gliscor, and Landorus-T being everywhere really doesn't help either. It's also so damn frail that you need to carry some bulk to use it effectively. All that being said, it's still a great U-Turner and and has a great speed tier, and it punishes teams that don't have the proper resists.
Mega Swampert B+ ---> A-: Gary summed it up best, but I think it's a level up from the other Swift Swimmers because it's also a functional Tank outside of the Rain. Sure it prefers the Rain, but it's not auto-deadweight if Politoad goes down.
Raikou B+ ---> A-: Got a lot better in ORAS. Specs and Calm Mind sets are great for breaking Mega Slowbro, and Specs Volt Switch is a hell of a momentum grabber. It's also a decent answer to GunkNinja. It seems like it's going to be joining OU soon, not that a tier change would impact it's ranking here at all.
Also, 500 posts! I really need to fill my free time some other way.
Charizard-X S ---> S: It's the best Dragon Dancer in the tier post-Mence, and it's Special Defense-WoW set is a pain to deal with. A big advantage it has over Mega Altaria (biggest Dragon Dance competition imo) is that it doesn't get revenge killed by Landorus-T. It's offensive DD sets also outspeed every new mega, and Jolly Aero/Timid Zam. Another advantage to using Char-X is that it's also an effective way of getting past Mega Sableye stall teams, Char-X actually uses MegaEye as set-up bait.
Mega Gyarados A ---> A+: Mega Bagworm is great with Crunch. Water/Dark is a great STAB combo, and it's got enough speed and bulk to create a lot of set-up opportunities. It can also run Jolly and outspeed every new Mega after a DD. +Speed base 150's can revenge kill, but anything below that can't. +1 Jolly Gyara can also OHKO Sceptile and Beedrill, and stands a good shot at OHKOing Lopunny. Dark STAB made him a lot better, and it's stallbreaking ability also received a boost because Crunch is a lot more spammable than Earthquake against Water resists (basically Ferrothorn, but there are a few others). It also can set-up on Sableye and Mega Slowbro regardless if it carries Sub or Taunt, which is something that can't be understated.
Mega Aerodactyl: A- ---> A: Great revenge killer. It's got a ton of options movewise, the speed to outrun everything, and decent defensive typing on top of that. It's also got a really customizable movepool and three great non-attacking moves in Hone Claws, Roost and Taunt. Running Jolly is the better option over Adamant btw. You want to straight outspeed Sceptile, Lopunny and Beedrill even if Aero has the bulk to take a hit. The stallbreaker Aero set is still very good as well, if you adjust the speed for the new Megas running around.
Chesnaught B ---> B+: Drain Punch is a great upgrade over Hammer Arm, and Chesnaught checks a ton of important threats. Lando-T, Mega Gyarados, Excadrill and Mega Lopunny are the best examples of this, but there's a lot of them out there. If also beats Ferrothorn better than just about anything out there mostly because it can't be touched by Leech Seed or Gyro Ball.
Mega Sableye A- ---> A+: I could actually see this in S, but A+ is a very good start. Everyone else has talked about how it's the face of ORAS Stall, but it can also be a great asset to Balance teams. Those teams love having the extra hazard control, and Sableye also provides a great win-con, especially against Stall teams.
Mega Beedrill B ---> B+: Very... decent. It does it's jobs well, but also has a ton of short comings. The STABs are fairly easy to wall, and it almost always has to carry Protect. It has a tough decision to make between running Knock Off and Drill run in the last moveslot, and depending on what it runs it gains a decent number of new checks. It's also hard checked by Skarm and Gliscor, and Landorus-T being everywhere really doesn't help either. It's also so damn frail that you need to carry some bulk to use it effectively. All that being said, it's still a great U-Turner and and has a great speed tier, and it punishes teams that don't have the proper resists.
Mega Swampert B+ ---> A-: Gary summed it up best, but I think it's a level up from the other Swift Swimmers because it's also a functional Tank outside of the Rain. Sure it prefers the Rain, but it's not auto-deadweight if Politoad goes down.
Raikou B+ ---> A-: Got a lot better in ORAS. Specs and Calm Mind sets are great for breaking Mega Slowbro, and Specs Volt Switch is a hell of a momentum grabber. It's also a decent answer to GunkNinja. It seems like it's going to be joining OU soon, not that a tier change would impact it's ranking here at all.
Also, 500 posts! I really need to fill my free time some other way.
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I agree with everything you have to say except for this. Char-x's DD set makes him A+ already imho, and the viability and usefulness of the bulky wisp set pushed it up to S. However, if you're running bulky wisp char-x on your stall, you're not running mega sableye. The opportunity cost for bulky wisp on stall teams simply skyrocketed after mega sableye was introduced, and mega sableye is now you're best option for a mega slot with nothing that can really contend for that. Even on bulky offense teams, it has competition with mons like mgarde, malt, mscept, mhera, maero, mscizor, mgallade, mgross, the list is seriously endless. Bulky Wisp is just kinda outclassed right now, and that's why it should drop :/
I personally don't think Charizard-X deserved to be put back in S. IMO, it's on the same level as Mega-Altaria, both as a Dragon Dancer and as a bulky Dragon type. While Charizard-X is certainly more powerful and has fewer stops, Mega-Altaria is more consistent and can find way more opportunities to set up. In many ways it's a middle ground between XZard and MGyara, it has both the bulk and setting up ability of MGyara and XZard's access to recovery. One of the most important things about Mega-Altaria as DDer is that isn't revenge killed by the really common stuff that's used to revenge kill XZard, in particular, it's not revenge killed by Scarf Lando-T (I know XZard can go Jolly but it loses out on a lot of power by doing so), it's also not revenge killed by Scarf Latios either (who is very common due to the Speed creep : in fact, the fact that a bunch of of Pokemon who usually didn't run Choice Scarves are now doing so is a problem for XZard). I just don't think XZard deserves to be ranked higher than MAltaria or MGyara, it's is no longer the uncontested "best DDer in the tier" it used to be now that these two provide fierce competition for that spot.
also it's worth noting that XZard is no longer the stall Mega of choice or really used on Stall anymore. The Wisp set has always been the set that made it an S rank threat as opposed to an A+ threat, and the fact that it's lost viability this is probably a good reason to move it down
edit : ninja'd by Srn
on a side note, after having used Specs Sylveon extensively I can now say it definitely needs to move up, that thing is just excellent glue for offensive teams, not only bringing tons of firepower and being a really cool pivot but also checking really dangerous stuff for offense such as Sableye, Thundurus, Mega-Sceptile, Mega-Manectric, Latis and Conkeldurr to a lesser extent.
also it's worth noting that XZard is no longer the stall Mega of choice or really used on Stall anymore. The Wisp set has always been the set that made it an S rank threat as opposed to an A+ threat, and the fact that it's lost viability this is probably a good reason to move it down
edit : ninja'd by Srn
on a side note, after having used Specs Sylveon extensively I can now say it definitely needs to move up, that thing is just excellent glue for offensive teams, not only bringing tons of firepower and being a really cool pivot but also checking really dangerous stuff for offense such as Sableye, Thundurus, Mega-Sceptile, Mega-Manectric, Latis and Conkeldurr to a lesser extent.
Alright now that CancerMence is gone its time to look at some of the other mons of the tier.
Raikou ==> A- The electrics have really become better with the ORAS shift and outspeeding the influx of 110 speeds is amazing. Excellent at grabbing momentum with Specs Volt Switch, a good check to teh tyranny of Greninja, and a very nice win condition with its CM set.
Mega Manectric ==> A+ This should move up for some of the same reasons why Raikou is going up except to a higher degree. A fast volt switch is extremely valuable in the current meta, not to mention the ability to outspeed almost all of the new threats in the tier is amazing. A great offensive check to many of the new mega's.
Weaville ==> B+ The ability to now run knock off with icicle crash and low kick makes Weaville scarier than ever. It has an amazing speed tier at 130 outspeeding a majority of the new threats. Ice priority is great for revenging things like Mega Sceptile and Mega Altaria (after prior damage). Weaville's new found coverage and power is something to be feared in the current metagame.
Raikou ==> A- The electrics have really become better with the ORAS shift and outspeeding the influx of 110 speeds is amazing. Excellent at grabbing momentum with Specs Volt Switch, a good check to teh tyranny of Greninja, and a very nice win condition with its CM set.
Mega Manectric ==> A+ This should move up for some of the same reasons why Raikou is going up except to a higher degree. A fast volt switch is extremely valuable in the current meta, not to mention the ability to outspeed almost all of the new threats in the tier is amazing. A great offensive check to many of the new mega's.
Weaville ==> B+ The ability to now run knock off with icicle crash and low kick makes Weaville scarier than ever. It has an amazing speed tier at 130 outspeeding a majority of the new threats. Ice priority is great for revenging things like Mega Sceptile and Mega Altaria (after prior damage). Weaville's new found coverage and power is something to be feared in the current metagame.
Zard X: S -> A+
DD Zard X is pretty much shit right now cause there are a few more threatning mons like mdiancie (which can live any hit from +1 non eq zard x), mlopunny (which can wear zard x down by coming in and klicking fake out), maltaria (which dont gets even 2hkoed by +1 zard x), mslowbro (which counters easiliy) and a few other megas which are able to do hell of a lot of damage to it like mgallade, mbeedrill, msceptile, mswampert etc. The only really good set right now is the bulky wisp set which still does its work on stall and balanced teams pretty well so zard x should move down imo.
DD Zard X is pretty much shit right now cause there are a few more threatning mons like mdiancie (which can live any hit from +1 non eq zard x), mlopunny (which can wear zard x down by coming in and klicking fake out), maltaria (which dont gets even 2hkoed by +1 zard x), mslowbro (which counters easiliy) and a few other megas which are able to do hell of a lot of damage to it like mgallade, mbeedrill, msceptile, mswampert etc. The only really good set right now is the bulky wisp set which still does its work on stall and balanced teams pretty well so zard x should move down imo.
1. Well it can still run EQ if you have problems handling it.
2. Mlopunny, how many pokemon are you ready to sack to wear out zardX with fake out Mlop?
3.+1 zardx not 2hkoing mega Altaria:
+1 152+ Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Flare Blitz vs. 248 HP / 4 Def Mega Altaria: 183-216 (51.8 - 61.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Come again?
4. +1 152+ Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Dragon Claw vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mega Slowbro: 126-148 (31.9 - 37.5%) -- 92.7% chance to 3HKO
0 SpA Mega Slowbro Scald vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Mega Charizard X: 124-147 (34.5 - 40.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
Actually if there's no more priority, CharX should go for the 2nd DD.
+2 152+ Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Dragon Claw vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mega Slowbro: 166-196 (42.1 - 49.7%) -- 88.3% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
CharX wins, a more offensive spread and outrage makes it easier.
+1 252+ Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Outrage vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mega Slowbro: 202-238 (51.2 - 60.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
People seem to have started underselling it. It is still a nightmare when running stall.
If we're talking about Mega Charizard X's placement we need to address the SD/Tailwind set as well because that right there is not uncontested, is a really underrated set in providing self and team support, and should be discussed if the set has enough merits to push it to S rank or not. I know MegaScizor made a mention of this in the under rated sets section so he probably can speak on it more. I do believe Char-X has the merits of staying in A+ but there's not a real point in arguing all the traits we've established yet failed to address the set none of these Dragon Dancers can pull off as well and the one set I believe has became more viable due to its competition as a Dragon Dancer. I'll probably edit if I have any nominations or move ups/down but for now I'm mostly agreeing with everything CelticPride said more or less.
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