ryo yamada2001
ryo yamada2001
I'm sure that there are people that are going to be saying this post is bad because "hurrdurr you just said everything everyone else said" and i really want to get this off:
Now lets start out, why is this thing retested? bc someone just hopped on the council and being one of the supporters of "unban mence" for a long time and i don't know why bc this thing is broken lmaoooo but okay lets go
The first thing the council should ask themselves "is this retest going to help the metagame in a positive way?" and i don't know if they actually asked them, because the answer is obvious: no. There is literally not a single way how this retest improves the metagame at all and i'm going to break it down. Again; this is like I'm restating everything that has been said in the past; because there is literally nothing else I can say.
couldn't find a good mence sprite rofl
Story about the fucking cheap-ass free-wins mon aka salamence and how the retest fucked up the meta
Lets start out with something from a different thread, and something from a different perspective, coming from a highly intelligent player who actually does know what he's doing unlike many of the people here
I got this quote out of the recent DOU players of the week (check it out this week is with stratos!)
Now lets look at the main viable mega pokemon in doubles;
charizard-y, diancie, kanga, and metagross
you can call this metagame centralized already, especially looking at which megas are viable in singles;
(these are all S/A tier pokemon from the viability rankings from OU so don't get mad if I got something wrong)
altaria, metagross, charizard-x, diancie, gyarados, lopunny, sableye, scizor, alakazam, chari-y, garde, latias, manectric, venusaur, aerodactyl, pinsir and slowbro
you could say that the OU viability rankings are very top heavy, and the thing is with singles is that you can just get boned by a single pokemon, as you simply cannot prepare for everything the singles meta has to offer, which is easier in doubles.
doubles meta centralized? indefinitely. there is a grand total of 4 viable megas, and there aren't just all that many pokemon in tier 1. now what does the salamence retest do to this meta?
okay maybe these calculations look a bit too scary, as it just bones everything in the meta, as well as outspeed most things with a dragon dance up, which isn't difficult to do. also this is assuming that your salamence is running earthquake, which it should. I can't understand that there are people that still just run 1 attack because Return+Earthquake+DDance+Protect or even Roost is solid as fuck already, I've seen people using rock slide but ppl are doing that just for the flinches and earthquake is much better, even though it doesn't really work with jirachi on the field together. the thing I want to show with these calcs is that it's ridiculous that Salamence can simply just destroy all four of the (so-called) overcentralizing megas. and what do they against it?
Okay so what you might be thinking right here is;
ayy these calcs are actually good, I can fuck up a Salamence with Diancie easily!
ahaha no
what i've been showing you is the wrong salamence calcs;
252 hp / 44+ atk / 212 spe is still okay and is the set used by one of the sample teams here, and i'm pretty sure that there are people that run way more bulk and there are people that just run 252+ atk/252 spe, I love running the doubles 252 set because it's easy to just destroy teams with it, the only thing that fucks you up is like icy wind cress
even though:
Statistics about (Mega)-Salamence
Typing: Dragon/Flying
it's weak to other dragon moves which are basically non-existant in the doubles metagame unless you count kyube's dragon claw or people using dragonite, which you probably shouldn't
fairy, there are 2 pokemon that use this the most often; gardevoir and sylveon, both are probably going to die at even seeing salamence, or even jirachi. the thing is that their hyper voice doesn't get stopped by follow me which is a very nice attribute. there are people that are running sylveon TR now just to beat the fuck out of mence
rock, the infamous rock slide exists, but is there anything else that really does this
ice, probably the most common hidden power, and it's a fairly common attacking typing as well, which is incredibly good, especially in this meta as you fuck up not only mence but also shaymin-sky and landorus-therian, two great pokemon in this meta.
Mega-Evolution: Aerilate
lol, this makes it just so much easier for salamence to fuck up your opponents, if you run return or double edge you can kill such a big portion of the metagame, the only things you don't hit effectively is zapdos and thundurus. now zapdos is less relevant but thundurus is actually a nice mence beater with HP Ice
if jirachi didn't exist
Pre-Mega Evolution: Intimidate
Intimidate is one of the most important abilities in this game as you can simply beat many physical attackers with it, Salamence legit gets one of the better abilities in the game, as you can beat both physical attackers on the field of your opponent, which is great. Most teams are built by guidelines and a lot of people even include a Intimidater on these guidelines; Salamence fits this role.
Bulk
95/130/90
yo this thing isn't frail, it doesn't get fucked up by physical attacks which is ridiculous
252+ Atk Landorus-T Rock Slide vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Salamence: 116-138 (34.9 - 41.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
like yo, it just kinda checks one of the best physical attackers of the meta like yo what the fuck man
The 3 most relevant physical attackers of the metagame can't even OHKO Salamence, and this is not even the bulky set (which people like to run more often nowadays). So basically keep in mind everything will 2HKO like 50% of the time bc I cba to do bulky calcs rn.
Now when you send in Salamence before it's mega-evolution, it even gets the Intimidate off.
On the physically defensive side you'll have definitely less trouble than on the specially defensive side, considering you have a lot less special bulk. That being said:
The thing is that every Normal moves turns into a Flying move and gets x1.3 power, that means you have a quite lot of relevant moves that Salamence can use;
- Return or Frustration
- Double-Edge
- Aqua Tail
- Dragon Claw
- Earthquake
- Facade
- Fire Fang
- Rock Slide
- Stone Edge
That is the Return/Earthquake set which is in my opinion still the best set. Considering it's so easy to support Mega-Salamence you could even go as far as adding a +1 Mega-Salamence to each calculation, because you're basically guaranteed to get at least one Dragon Dance off, unless something goes really really wrong.
Special Strength
Yes, even at a 120 base Special Attack you could go on to become a Special attacker. It's not recommendable though and I like the idea of even going mixed Salamence, but it's probably just best to go fully physical. One of the positive sides of Special Salamence is that you don't even need Dragon Dance, and can fill it up for a better move such as Roost, or even more coverage. Here are some relevant moves that Salamence carries as a special attacker:
- Draco Meteor
- Dragon Pulse
- Fire Blast / Flamethrower
- Hydro Pump
- Hyper Voice
I won't go too in-depth with these calculations, but because of the pretty strong coverage that Salamence has it's easy to say that it will kill a lot major threats. Also don't forget that Hyper Voice gets turned into a Flying move due to Aerilate.
Speed
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/13iusTLkC-HQqXFlAx0jlZ18oYmN5QdmFXPHn9eveEcU/edit#gid=0
Check it out for yourself. It gets outsped by quite some relevant threats in the metagame such as Terrakion, Raikou, Icy Wind Keldeo and Latios.
Support
It's ridiculously easy to support Salamence.
Now I've come to part where I realized I didn't explain it quite well enough. Mega-Salamence is on it's own...well, maybe not entirely broken. It would still be the normal day's Kangaskhan. Mega-Salamence's base stats are crazy and he has a great ability, as well as an okay typing and it has a great pre-mega-evolution ability in Intimidate. Maybe Mega-Salamence would be healthy in this current metagame...
Unless Jirachi didn't exist..
Salamence would have trouble to set up a Dragon Dance if it wasn't for Jirachi's Follow Me support. However, considering Jirachi lives everything that hits Salamence effectively, it's going to be much easier for Salamence to just get to +1. At +1 Mega-Salamence has basically no trouble for anything in this metagame as you blast through it with Return and Earthquake. Easy wins. Now how exactly does this make the metagame better?
Another problem is that Jirachi is pretty bulky. It is able to survive a lot of hits and it has great durability unless you hit it effectively. Again, ice moves? Redirected by Follow Me. Rock moves? Same. Fairy moves? Same. Dragon moves? Same. Also, Jirachi is Ground weak, let's Earthquake! Yeah but Salamence can fly.
If that isn't enough, Jirachi can support for very annoying paralyzes and flinches as extra bonus. It's really known for that, but I just wanted to make clear that Thunder Wave and Iron Head is one of the most annoying strategies ever.
How does this improve the goddamn metagame?
It doesn't allow for more creativity as you close most doors for building teams, most teamstyles are gone, bulky offense? Why run it if you get 2HKOd by Mence anyway, isn't it just better to run Hyper Offense? Indefinitely.
And everyone saying Hail finally became good, is that the whole point of this suspect test? To get a new good playstyle, which barely even works? Or Trick Room. Basically if you want to beat Salamence on a whole playstyle, these two (and Rain), are the most viable. And the weathers might not even be that viable at all.
Viability Ranks
Aegislash
Amoonguss
Mega-Charizard-Y
Cresselia
Mega-Diancie
Mega-Kangaskhan
Keldeo
Landorus-Therian
Rotom-Wash
Now I'm kinda done with this post, I've provided enough calculations, and stuff so
tl;dr Mega-Mence is very easy to support and from that point can set up a Dragon Dance to sweep through teams.
[22:21] Shaian: maaan if i made that and it didnt get hella likes i'd prolly quit
also nido is bae
thanks qsnsqsns said:Why does it sound like i'm regurgitating arguments from the last thread + earlier posts? because there's literally nothing else to be said.
Now lets start out, why is this thing retested? bc someone just hopped on the council and being one of the supporters of "unban mence" for a long time and i don't know why bc this thing is broken lmaoooo but okay lets go
The first thing the council should ask themselves "is this retest going to help the metagame in a positive way?" and i don't know if they actually asked them, because the answer is obvious: no. There is literally not a single way how this retest improves the metagame at all and i'm going to break it down. Again; this is like I'm restating everything that has been said in the past; because there is literally nothing else I can say.
couldn't find a good mence sprite rofl
Story about the fucking cheap-ass free-wins mon aka salamence and how the retest fucked up the meta
Lets start out with something from a different thread, and something from a different perspective, coming from a highly intelligent player who actually does know what he's doing unlike many of the people here
I got this quote out of the recent DOU players of the week (check it out this week is with stratos!)
just read through that quote; it states that singles is more diverse than doubles. and that's true in some ways. In singles there are a lot more viable megas and tier 1 pokemon, and Pocket thinks that there is a lot more innovation to be found within this metagamePocket said:My only qualm right now, is that it seems like Singles OU seem to be a lot more diverse than DOU. Just compare the # of diff megas used between Singles OU vs DOU, for instance. Also, sometimes it feels like I'm watching mirror teams fighting each other when I'm watching a Doubles match. I believe there is still much more exploration that can be done with our format, and people shouldn't be afraid of branching out from the proven few monsters to uncover hidden gems. Fortunately, we have quite an innovative leader, so many people would hopefully follow suit! Just don't bash too hard on people who are trying to test new things >_<. Excuse me if my observation is incorrect, though.
Now lets look at the main viable mega pokemon in doubles;
charizard-y, diancie, kanga, and metagross
you can call this metagame centralized already, especially looking at which megas are viable in singles;
(these are all S/A tier pokemon from the viability rankings from OU so don't get mad if I got something wrong)
altaria, metagross, charizard-x, diancie, gyarados, lopunny, sableye, scizor, alakazam, chari-y, garde, latias, manectric, venusaur, aerodactyl, pinsir and slowbro
you could say that the OU viability rankings are very top heavy, and the thing is with singles is that you can just get boned by a single pokemon, as you simply cannot prepare for everything the singles meta has to offer, which is easier in doubles.
doubles meta centralized? indefinitely. there is a grand total of 4 viable megas, and there aren't just all that many pokemon in tier 1. now what does the salamence retest do to this meta?
+1 252+ Atk Aerilate Mega Salamence Return vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Charizard Y: 475-561 (159.9 - 188.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
rekt
+1 252+ Atk Mega Salamence Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Diancie: 360-424 (149.3 - 175.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
rekt
+1 252+ Atk Mega Salamence Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0- Def Mega Metagross: 306-360 (101.6 - 119.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
at a normal nature i don't think it gets ohko'd all the time
+1 252+ Atk Aerilate Mega Salamence Return vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Kangaskhan: 387-456 (109.9 - 129.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
rekt
rekt
+1 252+ Atk Mega Salamence Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Diancie: 360-424 (149.3 - 175.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
rekt
+1 252+ Atk Mega Salamence Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0- Def Mega Metagross: 306-360 (101.6 - 119.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
at a normal nature i don't think it gets ohko'd all the time
+1 252+ Atk Aerilate Mega Salamence Return vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Kangaskhan: 387-456 (109.9 - 129.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
rekt
okay maybe these calculations look a bit too scary, as it just bones everything in the meta, as well as outspeed most things with a dragon dance up, which isn't difficult to do. also this is assuming that your salamence is running earthquake, which it should. I can't understand that there are people that still just run 1 attack because Return+Earthquake+DDance+Protect or even Roost is solid as fuck already, I've seen people using rock slide but ppl are doing that just for the flinches and earthquake is much better, even though it doesn't really work with jirachi on the field together. the thing I want to show with these calcs is that it's ridiculous that Salamence can simply just destroy all four of the (so-called) overcentralizing megas. and what do they against it?
252 SpA Mega Charizard Y Heat Wave vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Mega Salamence in Sun: 148-175 (44.5 - 52.7%) -- 25% chance to 2HKO
252+ SpA Mega Charizard Y Overheat vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Mega Salamence in Sun: 222-261 (66.8 - 78.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Metagross Meteor Mash vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Salamence: 169-201 (50.9 - 60.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
48 SpA Mega Diancie Moonblast vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Mega Salamence: 348-410 (104.8 - 123.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO ayy actually good
252+ Atk Parental Bond Mega Kangaskhan Return vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Salamence: 213-252 (64.1 - 75.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Mega Charizard Y Overheat vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Mega Salamence in Sun: 222-261 (66.8 - 78.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Metagross Meteor Mash vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Salamence: 169-201 (50.9 - 60.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
48 SpA Mega Diancie Moonblast vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Mega Salamence: 348-410 (104.8 - 123.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO ayy actually good
252+ Atk Parental Bond Mega Kangaskhan Return vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Salamence: 213-252 (64.1 - 75.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Okay so what you might be thinking right here is;
ayy these calcs are actually good, I can fuck up a Salamence with Diancie easily!
ahaha no
what i've been showing you is the wrong salamence calcs;
252 hp / 44+ atk / 212 spe is still okay and is the set used by one of the sample teams here, and i'm pretty sure that there are people that run way more bulk and there are people that just run 252+ atk/252 spe, I love running the doubles 252 set because it's easy to just destroy teams with it, the only thing that fucks you up is like icy wind cress
even though:
0 SpA Cresselia Icy Wind vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Mega Salamence: 136-164 (40.9 - 49.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ Atk Aerilate Mega Salamence Return vs. 240 HP / 12 Def Cresselia: 219-258 (49.6 - 58.5%) -- 98.4% chance to 2HKO
252+ Atk Aerilate Mega Salamence Return vs. 240 HP / 12 Def Cresselia: 219-258 (49.6 - 58.5%) -- 98.4% chance to 2HKO
Statistics about (Mega)-Salamence
Typing: Dragon/Flying
it's weak to other dragon moves which are basically non-existant in the doubles metagame unless you count kyube's dragon claw or people using dragonite, which you probably shouldn't
fairy, there are 2 pokemon that use this the most often; gardevoir and sylveon, both are probably going to die at even seeing salamence, or even jirachi. the thing is that their hyper voice doesn't get stopped by follow me which is a very nice attribute. there are people that are running sylveon TR now just to beat the fuck out of mence
rock, the infamous rock slide exists, but is there anything else that really does this
ice, probably the most common hidden power, and it's a fairly common attacking typing as well, which is incredibly good, especially in this meta as you fuck up not only mence but also shaymin-sky and landorus-therian, two great pokemon in this meta.
Mega-Evolution: Aerilate
lol, this makes it just so much easier for salamence to fuck up your opponents, if you run return or double edge you can kill such a big portion of the metagame, the only things you don't hit effectively is zapdos and thundurus. now zapdos is less relevant but thundurus is actually a nice mence beater with HP Ice
if jirachi didn't exist
Pre-Mega Evolution: Intimidate
Intimidate is one of the most important abilities in this game as you can simply beat many physical attackers with it, Salamence legit gets one of the better abilities in the game, as you can beat both physical attackers on the field of your opponent, which is great. Most teams are built by guidelines and a lot of people even include a Intimidater on these guidelines; Salamence fits this role.
Bulk
95/130/90
yo this thing isn't frail, it doesn't get fucked up by physical attacks which is ridiculous
252+ Atk Landorus-T Rock Slide vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Salamence: 116-138 (34.9 - 41.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
like yo, it just kinda checks one of the best physical attackers of the meta like yo what the fuck man
252+ Atk Landorus-T Rock Slide vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Salamence: 116-138 (34.9 - 41.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
208 Atk Mega Diancie Diamond Storm vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Salamence: 222-264 (66.8 - 79.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Parental Bond Mega Kangaskhan Return vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Salamence: 213-252 (64.1 - 75.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
208 Atk Mega Diancie Diamond Storm vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Salamence: 222-264 (66.8 - 79.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Parental Bond Mega Kangaskhan Return vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Salamence: 213-252 (64.1 - 75.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
The 3 most relevant physical attackers of the metagame can't even OHKO Salamence, and this is not even the bulky set (which people like to run more often nowadays). So basically keep in mind everything will 2HKO like 50% of the time bc I cba to do bulky calcs rn.
Now when you send in Salamence before it's mega-evolution, it even gets the Intimidate off.
-1 252+ Atk Parental Bond Mega Kangaskhan Return vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Salamence: 141-168 (42.4 - 50.6%) -- 1.6% chance to 2HKO
-1 208 Atk Mega Diancie Diamond Storm vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Salamence: 150-176 (45.1 - 53%) -- 28.9% chance to 2HKO
-1 252+ Atk Landorus-T Rock Slide vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Salamence: 78-92 (23.4 - 27.7%) -- 74.5% chance to 4HKO
-1 208 Atk Mega Diancie Diamond Storm vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Salamence: 150-176 (45.1 - 53%) -- 28.9% chance to 2HKO
-1 252+ Atk Landorus-T Rock Slide vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Salamence: 78-92 (23.4 - 27.7%) -- 74.5% chance to 4HKO
On the physically defensive side you'll have definitely less trouble than on the specially defensive side, considering you have a lot less special bulk. That being said:
Physical StrengthFinal Demolition said:it has 145 base attack, that's too much for Doubkes pokemons(it's even greater than of Arceus), 120 base speed, 130 base defense(has more defense than Arceus), lol that's too much for a sweeler, adding some evs in HP, makes it even more bulky, it doesn't have many checks,
The thing is that every Normal moves turns into a Flying move and gets x1.3 power, that means you have a quite lot of relevant moves that Salamence can use;
- Return or Frustration
- Double-Edge
- Aqua Tail
- Dragon Claw
- Earthquake
- Facade
- Fire Fang
- Rock Slide
- Stone Edge
252+ Atk Aerilate Mega Salamence Return vs. 252 HP / 184 Def Amoonguss: 548-648 (126.8 - 150%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Aerilate Mega Salamence Return vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Amoonguss: 510-602 (118 - 139.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Mega Salamence Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Aegislash-Shield: 136-162 (41.9 - 50%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Aerilate Mega Salamence Return vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Charizard Y: 318-375 (107 - 126.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Aerilate Mega Salamence Return vs. 252 HP / 80 Def Cresselia: 207-244 (46.6 - 54.9%) -- 66.4% chance to 2HKO
252+ Atk Mega Salamence Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Diancie: 180-212 (74.6 - 87.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Aerilate Mega Salamence Return vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Kangaskhan: 259-306 (73.5 - 86.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
-1 252+ Atk Aerilate Mega Salamence Return vs. 44 HP / 0 Def Landorus-T: 187-222 (56.6 - 67.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Aerilate Mega Salamence Return vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Rotom-W: 122-144 (40.1 - 47.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ Atk Aerilate Mega Salamence Return vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Shaymin-S: 656-774 (192.3 - 226.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Aerilate Mega Salamence Return vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Amoonguss: 510-602 (118 - 139.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Mega Salamence Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Aegislash-Shield: 136-162 (41.9 - 50%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Aerilate Mega Salamence Return vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Charizard Y: 318-375 (107 - 126.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Aerilate Mega Salamence Return vs. 252 HP / 80 Def Cresselia: 207-244 (46.6 - 54.9%) -- 66.4% chance to 2HKO
252+ Atk Mega Salamence Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Diancie: 180-212 (74.6 - 87.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Aerilate Mega Salamence Return vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Kangaskhan: 259-306 (73.5 - 86.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
-1 252+ Atk Aerilate Mega Salamence Return vs. 44 HP / 0 Def Landorus-T: 187-222 (56.6 - 67.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Aerilate Mega Salamence Return vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Rotom-W: 122-144 (40.1 - 47.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ Atk Aerilate Mega Salamence Return vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Shaymin-S: 656-774 (192.3 - 226.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
That is the Return/Earthquake set which is in my opinion still the best set. Considering it's so easy to support Mega-Salamence you could even go as far as adding a +1 Mega-Salamence to each calculation, because you're basically guaranteed to get at least one Dragon Dance off, unless something goes really really wrong.
Special Strength
Yes, even at a 120 base Special Attack you could go on to become a Special attacker. It's not recommendable though and I like the idea of even going mixed Salamence, but it's probably just best to go fully physical. One of the positive sides of Special Salamence is that you don't even need Dragon Dance, and can fill it up for a better move such as Roost, or even more coverage. Here are some relevant moves that Salamence carries as a special attacker:
- Draco Meteor
- Dragon Pulse
- Fire Blast / Flamethrower
- Hydro Pump
- Hyper Voice
I won't go too in-depth with these calculations, but because of the pretty strong coverage that Salamence has it's easy to say that it will kill a lot major threats. Also don't forget that Hyper Voice gets turned into a Flying move due to Aerilate.
Speed
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/13iusTLkC-HQqXFlAx0jlZ18oYmN5QdmFXPHn9eveEcU/edit#gid=0
Check it out for yourself. It gets outsped by quite some relevant threats in the metagame such as Terrakion, Raikou, Icy Wind Keldeo and Latios.
Support
It's ridiculously easy to support Salamence.
Now I've come to part where I realized I didn't explain it quite well enough. Mega-Salamence is on it's own...well, maybe not entirely broken. It would still be the normal day's Kangaskhan. Mega-Salamence's base stats are crazy and he has a great ability, as well as an okay typing and it has a great pre-mega-evolution ability in Intimidate. Maybe Mega-Salamence would be healthy in this current metagame...
Unless Jirachi didn't exist..
Salamence would have trouble to set up a Dragon Dance if it wasn't for Jirachi's Follow Me support. However, considering Jirachi lives everything that hits Salamence effectively, it's going to be much easier for Salamence to just get to +1. At +1 Mega-Salamence has basically no trouble for anything in this metagame as you blast through it with Return and Earthquake. Easy wins. Now how exactly does this make the metagame better?
Another problem is that Jirachi is pretty bulky. It is able to survive a lot of hits and it has great durability unless you hit it effectively. Again, ice moves? Redirected by Follow Me. Rock moves? Same. Fairy moves? Same. Dragon moves? Same. Also, Jirachi is Ground weak, let's Earthquake! Yeah but Salamence can fly.
If that isn't enough, Jirachi can support for very annoying paralyzes and flinches as extra bonus. It's really known for that, but I just wanted to make clear that Thunder Wave and Iron Head is one of the most annoying strategies ever.
How does this improve the goddamn metagame?
It doesn't allow for more creativity as you close most doors for building teams, most teamstyles are gone, bulky offense? Why run it if you get 2HKOd by Mence anyway, isn't it just better to run Hyper Offense? Indefinitely.
And everyone saying Hail finally became good, is that the whole point of this suspect test? To get a new good playstyle, which barely even works? Or Trick Room. Basically if you want to beat Salamence on a whole playstyle, these two (and Rain), are the most viable. And the weathers might not even be that viable at all.
Viability Ranks
252+ Atk Mega Salamence Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Aegislash-Shield: 136-162 (41.9 - 50%) -- 0.4% chance to 2HKO
252+ SpA Aegislash-Blade Shadow Ball vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Mega Salamence: 175-207 (52.7 - 62.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
You KO it before they KO you. Nonetheless, nice try checking Mence.
252+ SpA Aegislash-Blade Shadow Ball vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Mega Salamence: 175-207 (52.7 - 62.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
You KO it before they KO you. Nonetheless, nice try checking Mence.
+1 252+ Atk Aerilate Mega Salamence Return vs. 252 HP / 184 Def Amoonguss: 824-972 (190.7 - 225%) -- guaranteed OHKO
boned
boned
+1 252+ Atk Aerilate Mega Salamence Return vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Charizard Y: 475-561 (159.9 - 188.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+1 252+ Atk Aerilate Mega Salamence Return vs. 252 HP / 80 Def Cresselia: 309-364 (69.5 - 81.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
well you lose if Cress has Icy Wind or Ice Beam and gets Trick Room up, but you still do a whole lot of damage
well you lose if Cress has Icy Wind or Ice Beam and gets Trick Room up, but you still do a whole lot of damage
+1 252+ Atk Mega Salamence Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Diancie: 270-318 (112 - 131.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
now okay I gotta say, you just get straight up OHKOd by moonblast if you don't have a DD up or don't run the bulky set
now okay I gotta say, you just get straight up OHKOd by moonblast if you don't have a DD up or don't run the bulky set
+1 252+ Atk Aerilate Mega Salamence Return vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Kangaskhan: 387-456 (109.9 - 129.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+1 252+ Atk Aerilate Mega Salamence Return vs. 24 HP / 0 Def Keldeo: 848-998 (257.7 - 303.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
i know this is the wrong set but you get the idea, you don't get straight up OHKOd if you don't have a dd and keldeo icy winds but it still does a lot
i know this is the wrong set but you get the idea, you don't get straight up OHKOd if you don't have a dd and keldeo icy winds but it still does a lot
252+ Atk Landorus-T Rock Slide vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Salamence: 116-138 (34.9 - 41.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ Atk Aerilate Mega Salamence Return vs. 44 HP / 0 Def Landorus-T: 282-333 (85.4 - 100.9%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO
by then your opponent loses unless he flinches you with rock slide
252+ Atk Aerilate Mega Salamence Return vs. 44 HP / 0 Def Landorus-T: 282-333 (85.4 - 100.9%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO
by then your opponent loses unless he flinches you with rock slide
252+ Atk Aerilate Mega Salamence Return vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Rotom-W: 122-144 (40.1 - 47.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
136 SpA Rotom-W Thunderbolt vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Mega Salamence: 127-150 (38.2 - 45.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
im pretty sure rotom-w runs less SpA but you get the deal, you'll still kill it first
136 SpA Rotom-W Thunderbolt vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Mega Salamence: 127-150 (38.2 - 45.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
im pretty sure rotom-w runs less SpA but you get the deal, you'll still kill it first
Now I'm kinda done with this post, I've provided enough calculations, and stuff so
tl;dr Mega-Mence is very easy to support and from that point can set up a Dragon Dance to sweep through teams.
[22:21] Shaian: maaan if i made that and it didnt get hella likes i'd prolly quit
also nido is bae
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