Lower Tiers ORAS NU Viability Rankings

[Take Azelfie]

D ---> Unranked
I was curious to what the hell it did so I want into chat and asked. My answer was that it counters Tauros. Even Tauros is like the most threatening Pokemon in NU right now does that mean we would consider it on teams when many other Pokemon can do the same exact thing but actually have a lot more merit and usefulness in a match. Not to mention that even though it compresses the role of a water immunity as well it isn't needed as there are a plentiful amount of Pokemon that deal with Water-types pretty easily. Oh and one last thing, the Pursuit and Knock Off weakness straight out sucks.

On another note I really think the council should take some time to look over this thread and revamp it. Lock the thread for a week or so to do it and reopen it once you guys are done revamping it because honestly there are a lot of people who are just waiting for it to happen and unsatisfied with the way it is right now.
edit: also require replays of new Pokemon getting ranked so we don't end up with Delibird in D rank again

 

[Machiavelli]

Btw can cacturne move down a stage or so? Its only niche over shiftry is water absorb and spikes, and why you'd need those two things specifically is beyond me. It sucks at both niches anyway. Besides just about every water pokemon can beat it, so yeah. Most of the meta beats cacturne too; like half of A rank 1v1's it just for example. Having sucker punch as your only dark stab sucks as well. Also consider the fact that it is both slow and frail which is a fundamentally terrible combination for any pokemon. That's about it.

 

[The Goomy]

Primeape is a lot better now that Sawk's been banned, since it lost its biggest rival.

Comments like this really grind my gears. Primeape didn't magically get better because a superior mon that you state fulfills the same role (which is doesn't) left the tier. It just means that Primeape is one of the only fighting types left in the tier, so if you want one, it's one of the few options. However, at this point, Hitmonchan is probably the best "offensive" fighting type left considering it has access to priority, hazard control, and isn't piss weak without choice band. In addition, Combusken, Poliwrath, Hariyama, and even Throh can do so much more to support a team that I find it challenging to justify using Primeape ever.

Regardless of the concept of "who is the best fighting type", the meta was so focused around the need to have a fighting type before because the ones we had were really fucking good (Virizion for a while, Sawk, Gurdurr). Primeape is still pretty mediocre because it's really weak without band and it's real niche is in the encore set, which honestly isn't too useful since you don't have the opportunity to encore much in this meta and it's speed tier is mediocre for an offensive poke with such little power.

Primeape does NOT support a team at all. It's defensive typing is really mediocre and it's not a good switch in to knock off since it needs a boosting item to punch holes, unlike Sawk which could hit hard regardless. U-turn is meh in a tier full of Rocky Helmet Garbodor and hazards in general. Defiant is way too situational as most teams are utilizing a spinner like Hitmonchan or Claydol in conjuction with Xatu, forgoing defog at all. And the common defoggers (Skuntank, Peli, Shiftry) are not mons you really want to switch in on anyway because you're so frail and probably don't even live single attacks from and in the case of Pelipper can't hit back hard anyway without stone edge, which is so weak otherwise.

It's just a fallacy that one Pokemon of a certain type leaving makes other pokemon of the same type better. Primeape is still just as underwhelming as it was when Sawk was in the tier, it's just one of the few offensive fighting types left (Although it's still significantly worse than the likes of Combusken, Hitmonchan, Poliwrath, and Hariyama). The meta has shifted from the need to have a fighting type on every team and this is a healthy shake up.

The logic you used in your post is flawed and should not be used to give buffs to Pokemon's ranks in this thread. Here's an example that may make this more clear to you:

Suppose Xatu got banned, Mesprit, Musharna, Claydol, rose via usage. You wouldn't then say, "Guys, Chimecho is so good in this current meta since those actually good defensive Psychic types left". No, it's still shit. You'll have to adapt your teambuilding to the new meta and find ways to build that don't utilize a defensive Psychic type. In the same way I think it's foolish to claim Ape got better because Sawk and Gurdurr left.

 

[tehy]

Suppose Xatu got banned, Mesprit, Musharna, Claydol, rose via usage. You wouldn't then say, "Guys, Chimecho is so good in this current meta since those actually good defensive Psychic types left". No, it's still shit. You'll have to adapt your teambuilding to the new meta and find ways to build that don't utilize a defensive Psychic type. In the same way I think it's foolish to claim Ape got better because Sawk and Gurdurr left.

No, but I would say 'grumpig seems like a much more appetizing option'. To put it another way, if Gengar were to drop, Haunter would obviously fall off the face of the viability rankings. After Gengar's immediate quickbanning, Haunter would probably 'get better' and go up some ranks (not to where it was before, because the meta is probably hostile to Ghost / Poison types at that moment). So naturally, once competition is removed, things don't become 'better' but they do become more appetizing options. I.E. Primeape is not any more effective, but it's not competing with more effective things.

 

[The Goomy]

No, but I would say 'grumpig seems like a much more appetizing option'. To put it another way, if Gengar were to drop, Haunter would obviously fall off the face of the viability rankings. After Gengar's immediate quickbanning, Haunter would probably 'get better' and go up some ranks (not to where it was before, because the meta is probably hostile to Ghost / Poison types at that moment). So naturally, once competition is removed, things don't become 'better' but they do become more appetizing options. I.E. Primeape is not any more effective, but it's not competing with more effective things.

I understand what you mean that it's not competing against more effective things, but it also doesn't make the Pokemon more effective in the meta, which is what the rankings should be, right? How well do these pokes work in the meta.

To quote the OP, "The concept of this thread is that we will organize the Pokemon in our tier into ranks, varying on how good they are." Primeape did not get better (your words, not mine), therefore it should not increase in rank.

 

[tehy]

I understand what you mean that it's not competing against more effective things, but it also doesn't make the Pokemon more effective in the meta, which is what the rankings should be, right? How well do these pokes work in the meta.

To quote the OP, "The concept of this thread is that we will organize the Pokemon in our tier into ranks, varying on how good they are." Primeape did not get better, therefore it should not increase in rank.

So would Haunter be placed at B+ rank if Gengar were to be in the tier?

...probably not, right?

To put it simply, when one Pokemon and another directly compete, the other Pokemon loses some of its usability. For example, Primeape's Close Combat is always going to do this much:

252 Atk Choice Band Primeape Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 208+ Def Mega Audino: 160-189 (39 - 46%)

but what does that mean for its viability, precisely? Like, how good is it to 3HKO this Pokemon? Well, one way to measure it is:

252 Atk Choice Band Sawk Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 208+ Def Mega Audino: 180-213 (43.9 - 51.9%) -- 11.7% chance to 2HKO

So we see that, while Ape's CC is powerful, in terms of the meta, it's not as powerful as some other options out there, which diminishes its luster.

Basically, the only way to really measure viability is in relation to other options anyways. Even something that sweeps the entire metagame if allowed to set up 1 DD, would be not as good as something capable of sweeping the entire metagame without setup. So naturally as better things get banned, others will rise in viability, if not effectiveness.

 

[erisia]

0-100 real quick.

D ---> Unranked
I was curious to what the hell it did so I want into chat and asked. My answer was that it counters Tauros. Even Tauros is like the most threatening Pokemon in NU right now does that mean we would consider it on teams when many other Pokemon can do the same exact thing but actually have a lot more merit and usefulness in a match. Not to mention that even though it compresses the role of a water immunity as well it isn't needed as there are a plentiful amount of Pokemon that deal with Water-types pretty easily. Oh and one last thing, the Pursuit and Knock Off weakness straight out sucks.

On another note I really think the council should take some time to look over this thread and revamp it. Lock the thread for a week or so to do it and reopen it once you guys are done revamping it because honestly there are a lot of people who are just waiting for it to happen and unsatisfied with the way it is right now.
edit: also require replays of new Pokemon getting ranked so we don't end up with Delibird in D rank again

I actually used Frillish for a while to try and get this thing unranked but it's actually not bad on a stall team. It's a bulky Ghost that has Recover and immunity to Water-type moves (Scald!), and it can spread status around teams pretty quickly because it forces out so much. Aside from Tauros it also 100% stops Sub Barbaracle, SD Samurott, and basically any physical attacker that can't deal more than 40%. It's not great but it's about as good as something like Metang.

Also regarding a general revamp, people have been working on condensing the VRs for a while and making sure that rank inflation is stopped. The reality is that lots of mons are viable in NU and while the C-ranks and D-rank could probably do with some pruning, cutting too many mons from the list would be equally unrepresentative. S rank is also weird atm because the metagame isn't really centralised around one or two mons yet; they're not going to rank mons up just so that S-rank is full. And replays for low rank noms are probably going to be implemented when the next update rolls out in a short while.

 

[The Goomy]

So would Haunter be placed at B+ rank if Gengar were to be in the tier?

Yes. Haunter still performs at a B+ level in the current meta (the only reason it would drop is because Gengar outspeeds and kills it, which is a major change in something that beats Haunter, not something leaving that has no effect on Haunter's effectiveness as a Pokemon).

So naturally as better things get banned, others will rise in viability, if not effectiveness.

So you're trying to tell me Primeape actually somehow got better as a Pokemon. MORE effective because Sawk left? Please. Explain to me. Does CC magically do more damage now? Can it run a new set that it couldn't run before because Sawk walled it? Really, I'm curious, did GF raise it's base stats or change its movepool while I wasn't looking?

 

[tehy]

Yes. Haunter still performs at a B+ level in the current meta (the only reason it would drop is because Gengar outspeeds and kills it, which is a major change in something that beats Haunter, not something leaving that has no effect on Haunter's effectiveness as a Pokemon).

So again - you really think Haunter would be at a B+ rank if Gengar were to drop? Not at a theoretical B+ level of effectiveness, but at B+ on the NU Viability Rankings.

If you do, then you are A: internally consistent and B: almost certainly wrong, so there's nothing else to discuss.

So you're trying to tell me Primeape actually somehow got better as a Pokemon. MORE effective because Sawk left? Please. Explain to me. Does CC magically do more damage now? Can it run a new set that it couldn't run before because Sawk walled it? Really, I'm curious, did GF raise it's base stats or change its movepool while I wasn't looking?

I actually stated that CC didn't magically do more damage now. But again : power is largely comparative, so compared to the rest of the tier now it is stronger, despite not gaining any literal power.

 

[Oda]

Yes. Haunter still performs at a B+ level in the current meta (the only reason it would drop is because Gengar outspeeds and kills it, which is a major change in something that beats Haunter, not something leaving that has no effect on Haunter's effectiveness as a Pokemon).



So you're trying to tell me Primeape actually somehow got better as a Pokemon. MORE effective because Sawk left? Please. Explain to me. Does CC magically do more damage now? Can it run a new set that it couldn't run before because Sawk walled it? Really, I'm curious, did GF raise it's base stats or change its movepool while I wasn't looking?

I think what tehy is trying to say is that ranks also consider if mons are out classed in certain roles by a higher ranked mon and they are not bad per say but you gain very little by using it compared to using the mon that does ever role it can do and more.

For instance if samurott and a bunch of other physical water sweepers were to move up , something bad like kingler in D or other mons ranked in B and lower might rise because they might have been lower ranked because of certain flaws but also they were severely outclassed by SD rott or SS Barb. Obviously there are other factors but that is one of them.

If i recall the description for D rank mentions being there because a higher rank mon eclipses it in all roles so that could be a reason to raise a mon if another mon that does its role better suddenly leaves.

 

[Steakburgers]

Yes. Haunter still performs at a B+ level in the current meta (the only reason it would drop is because Gengar outspeeds and kills it, which is a major change in something that beats Haunter, not something leaving that has no effect on Haunter's effectiveness as a Pokemon).



So you're trying to tell me Primeape actually somehow got better as a Pokemon. MORE effective because Sawk left? Please. Explain to me. Does CC magically do more damage now? Can it run a new set that it couldn't run before because Sawk walled it? Really, I'm curious, did GF raise it's base stats or change its movepool while I wasn't looking?

In your 1st post you said that uturn was bad on ape due to the fact we have rocky helm garbo
So scyther sucks? Mesprit sucks? Unlike scyther primeape and mesp have coverage to actually bop garbodor
And you really underestimate the power of ape without an item. Encore allows you to get more defiant boosts from defog, force a mon into a boosting move or hazard move, and possibly ease in a switch in for your own set up sweeper.
Scarf outspeeds swellow, floatzel +1 butterfly, and+1 liligant
Thats pretty good imo

 

[The Goomy]

And you really underestimate the power of ape without an item.
Scarf outspeeds swellow, floatzel +1 butterfly, and+1 liligant

252 Atk Primeape Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Swellow: 255-300 (97.7 - 114.9%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO
252 Atk Primeape Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Lilligant: 213-252 (75.8 - 89.6%) -- 100% chance to 2HKO
252 Atk Primeape Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Floatzel: 273-322 (87.7 - 103.5%) -- 25% chance to OHKO
Also, I don't want to rely on Stone Edging a Vivillon to say a set is useful, there are far better ways to check that Pokemon in the meta that aren't dependent on a sash being broken at only +1 and also hitting an 80% move that allows many threatening Pokemon to set up because it's weak as fuck.

252 Atk Primeape Stone Edge vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Samurott: 107-127 (32.3 - 38.3%) -- 97.9% chance to 3HKO

Assuming you hit.

Am I really underestimating the power? You can't even comfortably revenge the threats you discussed for choice scarf, and if you run something like Fist Plate for extra power you're too slow to revenge most offensive threats, and still relatively weak. Weak as in can't even OHKO Miltank after rocks with Fist Plate weak. If you want to run encore you lose out on one of u-turn, eq, or stone edge, which makes you walled by even more things. It's just not a good pokemon and it's ridiculous to say that Sawk leaving is what suddenly makes it good.

 

[kay]

One thing people need to see is that splashablility, the ability to just throw it on teams and have it work, plays a part in it. When an example like Haunter vs Gengar comes around, yes if haunter was B before it dropped it still technically is as threatening as a B rank mon. But that's when splashability and common sense/ low justification factor comes into play. There is simply no reason to run Haunter if Gengar is in the same meta. Haunter is no longer splashable on teams if you can just run Gengar and you can't justify using it if Gengar is in the tier so the Viability Ranks would reflect that and have it drop. There is more to a mons rank then just how good it can perform. If this wasn't the case then we'd have things like Abra and Gastly ranked.

Now with that being said, Primeape did get better with Sawk leaving, just not performance wise. It's now easier to justify using which makes it more of a splashable fighting type which is where the grounds of a rise should be. Sawk leaving did effect Primeape as it's now one of the go-to fighting types along with Hariyama and Hitmonchan and fills a spot that those 2 can't.

 

[ChrystalFalchion]

OK saying Primeape was "better" was maybe putting it badly, what I meant was that there's much more reason to use it now that Sawk's been banned, as Sawk was many player's go to fast offensive Fighting type, and now Sawk's gone that's left a hole for Primeape.

On a side note, I'm also thinking Mega Audino could be S Rank. It's incredibly bulky, hits quite hard after a boost (the offensive Calm Mind set can 2HKO just about everything at +1 with the right move), can run multiple sets and it's the only mega in NU, so it has no competition at all. It can do lots of things, and it does them all well.

 

[kay]

+

Stoutland and Hippopotas C ---> C+
Time for my own nomination. I've been running this core since Sceptile meta and it's been going extremely good. Sand has been really under rated for awhile and it's very viable right now. Stoutland at the moment breaks the current meta we have. with Stoutlands ability to out speed the likes of Swellow and break a lot of common cores in NU right now LO Stoutland in sand is really fearsome. As for Hippo there is no real reason to not bump both up as if you run 1 you run the other.

This core is splashable on a lot of different teams and it adds a really cool dynamic that's really good in this meta.

 

[honchkrow]

Slaking @ Choice Band
Ability: Truant
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Double-Edge
- Earthquake
- Pursuit
- Fire Punch

Hi, I usually dont post here, but ive been messing around with Slaking lately and it is honestly really good. I would LOVE to see it ranked, maybe somewhere in C? It honestly just puts so much pressure on your opponent and it's awful ability can easily be played around. Here's a replay of it doing work n_n http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-nu-148199.

e: A friend said i should say a bit more so uh, the reason i figured around C rank would work is because Bouffalant currently sits in C+ and i honestly dont think it is very good. Slaking does have a poor ability, i get that, but when you basically ohko something then are free to switch, it honestly isnt that hard to use effectively. Granted i used it on stall so it was easy to switch into attacks, with decent team support i think this mon has potential.

 

[boltsandbombers]

Apologies for the delay, here's an update.

Rises:
Tauros A+ -> S
Lanturn A- -> A
Floatzel B- -> B+
Grumpig B- -> B
Camerupt C+ -> B-
Carracosta C -> B-

Drops:
Rotom S -> A+
Combusken A+ -> A
Charizard A+ -> A
Sliggoo B+ -> B
Klinklang B- -> C+
Crustle C- -> D
Torkoal D -> E

Nominations we did not follow through with:

Samurott A+ -> S
Archeops A -> A+
Omastar A- -> A
Malamar A- -> A
Pinsir B+ -> A-
Throh B- -> B
Primeape B -> B+
Zebstrika Unranked -> D
Butterfree / Mothim Unranked -> D
Kangaskhan A+ -> A
Magmortar A+ -> A

The next update will determine Manectric's ranking as well as the Stoutland / Hippopotas, Mega Audino, and Slaking nominations, just want to be clear that I'm not ignoring those. As always, I'd like to encourage discussion on nominations that have not been discussed in the previous slate, but if you have valid points which have not been made in previous posts feel free to re-argue one of the nominations and we will take that into consideration.

 

[Raseri]

nominating Floatzel from B+ to A

its just so good lol

but seriously Floatzel is one of the best Pokemon in NU right now due to its good special attack and amazing speed. It is able to put a lot of pressure on almost every team without Lanturn (and can even pressure Lanturn if you run weird moves). It outspeeds 2 of the scariest things in NU, Tauros and Archeops, being one of offenses best ways to handle those 2 dudes. Focus Blast hits Ferroseed so it isnt spikes fodder. Ice Beam breaks the rest of the grass types unless they run max SpD. It has some decent checks like Audino and Musharna, and Lanturn is as close as youre getting to a counter, but it is a Pokemon that will almost always contribute to a battle, just due to its Speed

Floatzel is super scary for offense, and can threaten balance through good usage of taunt. It is super scary and now that Sceptile is gone it should go to the A-ranks like it deserves

 

[DTC]

Primeape is a great Pokemon and deserves to be B+ because of its Choice Band set. It's not the most splashable or versatile Pokemon, which is why I wouldn't suggest it being any higher, but Primeape + Skuntank is very effective because it's easy to get rid of the Pokemon that can actually live a Close Combat. It's also extremely effective with hazards as Primeape threatens a lot of Pokemon out with its really powerful Close Combat. Never underestimate a Band Close Combat coming from 105 base Speed. I agree Choice Scarf Primeape is kinda bad because of how weak it is so that isn't a good reason to move it up. It has its use on some teams but it's not something I'd use much at all.

I also think Omastar should have moved up to A. It got way better with Sceptile leaving because Grass-type Pokemon are one of the few Pokemon that actually threaten an OHKO on Omastar. In addition, it checks Tauros and other Normal-types okay, but it definitely shouldn't be your only Normal-type check. Anyways, Omastar is almost as reliable as Garbodor at getting Spikes up and also has Stealth Rock and the amazing move Scald to boot. With Hidden Power Electric, pressures all of the hazard removers aside from Grass Knot Xatu as well. Shell Smash Omastar is also a pretty threatening sweeper although I'm not a fan of it because it gets outsped by the Choice Scarf Electric-types, but that doesn't mean it isn't a potent threat.

I've had a lot of success with these two Pokemon and they definitely deserve to move up.

Also agree with Raseri on Floatzel.

 

[Funbot28]

Mega Audino: A+ to S

So going off what ChrystalFalchion said, Mega Dino is like the most bulkiest and fatest shit in the tier. With the absence of Sawk and now Sceptile, Mega Dino now has more flexibility on how it invests in its defenses. Now I find the more mixed defensive to be slightly more viable. Of course CM sets are incredibly scary, and with the the seemingly decrease of the volatility the tier seems to be in with two of the best wall breakers being banned, I firmly believe Mega Audino is at a perfect point to be considered an S rank threat.

 

[Cheryl.]

A couple of nominations:

Jumpluff from C to C+
Jumpluff's improved since the banning of Sceptile due to it's speed tier becoming more relevant again, and it also lost competition as a Swords Dance user from Sceptile as well. The thing that seperates Jumpluff from other Swords Dance sweepers like Shiftry is Sleep Powder, letting it imobolize the enemy for setup. Grass/Flying coverage isn't very good, but it isn't bad either, letting it get past would-be checks like Rhydon. It's support set isn't bad either, as it's a decent Memento user and has Sleep Powder, making it a neat mon alongside sweepers like Barbaracle. Sadly Jumpluff still can't get past physical walls like Steelix that easily even after Swords Dance boosts, and it faces competition as a Memento user from mons like Mismagius, but I think Jumpluff has improved enough that it's better than the other mons in C rank, and should rise up a notch to C+.

Carracosta from B- to B
I know this just moved up, but I think B- is underselling Carracosta's capabilities a bit. It's mixed Shell Smash set is very threatening right now as it has the right coverage to smash through unprepared teams (Not a pun) and get through usual physical Carracosta checks like Weezing and Vileplume. While it can't outspeed Floatzel and Swellow at +2, it can still leave a mark on the 110 Speed tier, and is a really underrated sweeper in general. It's defensive set is also quite good right now, as it serves as a fabulous check to Normal types and Flying types and is a decent check to Fire-types as well, as well as having useful utility in Stealth Rock, Knock Off, and even Scald. Carracosta's main problem is the competition it receives for it's roles, such as competition from Barbaracle and Omastar as Shell Smash sweepers, as they can outspeed even Swellow at +2, unlike Carracosta, and competition from Steelix as a Stealth Rocking defensive mon due to their similar resistances, but Carracosta still has edges over them in the surprise factor and power of the mixed SS set, and the utility of Knock Off and Scald and Fire resistance on the defensive set, which Steelix doesn't have. Overall, Carracosta is a really underrated and good Pokemon right now, and a rise to B rank would suffice to show it's effectiveness in the current metagame.

 

[MetaGamer14]

Manectric should at least be in Unranked to A- because...

~ It can use Switcherro with a conjunction of the Choice Item's Specs and Scarf which can screw up the opponents strategy.

~ It can learn Overheat defeating top-ranked pokemon like Abomasnow, Exeggutor, Torterra, Articuno, and other pokemon that is weak to Fire

~ Also, it can destroy Quagmire or any Water, Ground, or Rock type with Hidden Power Grass with Specs or Expert Belt making the coverage move powerful.

~ Its Ability Lighting Rod can boost its already good Sp.Attack when paired with any Flying and Water type making it a menacing killer if it has Hidden Power Ground and that Sp.Attack Boost and also the Expert Belt thus making Electric Types vulnerable.

~ It works amazingly with the VoltTurn strategy when paired with Scyther

Manectric - Item: Expert Belt/ Choice Specs - Ability: Lighting Rod Manectric - Item: Choice Specs/ Choice Scarf - Ability: Lighting Rod

Move 1: ThunderBolt {EVS: 4 Def/252 Sp.Attack/252 Speed} Move 1: Switcherro EVS: 4 Def/252 Sp.Attack/252 Speed

Move 2: Volt Switch Move 2: ThunderBolt

Move 3: Overheat/Flamethrower Move 3: Volt Switch

Move 4: HP Ice/HP Grass/HP Ground Move 4: Overheat

Thanks for listening hope you like this opinion and hopefully can help Manectric get an official rank in NU

 

[The Goomy]

Manectric should at least be in Unranked to A- because...

~ It can use Switcherro with a conjunction of the Choice Item's Specs and Scarf which can screw up the opponents strategy.

~ It can learn Overheat defeating top-ranked pokemon like Abomasnow, Exeggutor, Torterra, Articuno, and other pokemon that is weak to Fire

~ Also, it can destroy Quagmire or any Water, Ground, or Rock type with Hidden Power Grass with Specs or Expert Belt making the coverage move powerful.

~ Its Ability Lighting Rod can boost its already good Sp.Attack when paired with any Flying and Water type making it a menacing killer if it has Hidden Power Ground and that Sp.Attack Boost and also the Expert Belt thus making Electric Types vulnerable.

~ It works amazingly with the VoltTurn strategy when paired with Scyther

Manectric - Item: Expert Belt/ Choice Specs - Ability: Lighting Rod Manectric - Item: Choice Specs/ Choice Scarf - Ability: Lighting Rod

Move 1: ThunderBolt {EVS: 4 Def/252 Sp.Attack/252 Speed} Move 1: Switcherro EVS: 4 Def/252 Sp.Attack/252 Speed

Move 2: Volt Switch Move 2: ThunderBolt

Move 3: Overheat/Flamethrower Move 3: Volt Switch

Move 4: HP Ice/HP Grass/HP Ground Move 4: Overheat

Thanks for listening hope you like this opinion and hopefully can help Manectric get an official rank in NU

I think A- rank is way too high for Manectric.

It's in a really awkward speed tier (105) that isn't too great as it's outsped by pertinent offensive threats like Tauros, Archeops, and Swellow. It's really frail so it's difficult to get in safely on non-voltturn builds. Fire coverage is really overrated in this meta considering most special walls that beat electrics aren't necessarily weak to fire in this tier (See Musharna, Miltank, Rhydon, Lanturn, Audino, Mesprit, Sliggoo, Hariyama, etc.). I think that Manectric is simply outclassed by Electrode, which is also immune to Thunder Wave, has a much better ability in Soundproof, which allows it to become a counter to Swellow (which is one of the most threatening Pokemon in the tier at the moment). And it has a much better speed tier and can afford to run Modest due to soundproof (it only has like 17 less SpAtk than manectric but much more speed). I also think Raichu is better than Manectric due to the competitive base 110 speed tier and access to multiple sets such as Nasty Plot and Encore, which allow it to support the team. Raichu also has the ability to hit steels like Steelix and Ferroseed with Focus Blast. Even Rotom-S and Rotom are better offensive electric types in this tier with more utility. Because of the fact that Manectric doesn't perform at a high level in the tier compared to these threats (because apparently that's how we're meant to rank things), I think A- is way too high for Manectric. Maybe B- is a better place to fit it.

 

[AJB]

I think A- rank is way too high for Manectric.

It's in a really awkward speed tier (105) that isn't too great as it's outsped by pertinent offensive threats like Tauros, Archeops, and Swellow. It's really frail so it's difficult to get in safely on non-voltturn builds. Fire coverage is really overrated in this meta considering most special walls that beat electrics aren't necessarily weak to fire in this tier (See Musharna, Miltank, Rhydon, Lanturn, Audino, Mesprit, Sliggoo, Hariyama, etc.). I think that Manectric is simply outclassed by Electrode, which is also immune to Thunder Wave, has a much better ability in Soundproof, which allows it to become a counter to Swellow, which is one of the most threatening Pokemon in the tier at the moment. And it has a much better speed tier and can afford to run Modest due to soundproof (it only has like 17 less SpAtk than manectric but much more speed). I also think Raichu is better than Manectric due to the competitive base 110 speed tier and access to multiple sets such as Nasty Plot and Encore, which allow it to support the team. Raichu also has the ability to hit steels like Steelix and Ferroseed with Focus Blast. Even Rotom-S and Rotom are better offensive electric types in this tier with more utility. Because of the fact that Manectric doesn't perform at a high level in the tier compared to these threats (because apparently that's how we're meant to rank things), I think A- is way too high for Manectric. Maybe B- is a better place to fit it.

While i do agree with the fact that Manectric isn't worthy of A- and is in general outclassed by some other Electric-type options, I think a lot of your reasoning for why this is so is flawed. Fire-type coverage is by no means bad or overrated in this meta, as it allows Manectric to bypass traditional Electric type checks such as Steelix, Ferroseed, Vileplume, Roselia and Gourgeist who you failed to mention in your post. The ability to beat these pokemon with Overheat / Flamethrower also frees up the Hidden Power slot for Manectric, allowing it to make better use of HP Grass or Water to bypass other checks like Quagsire and Camerupt. Also the greater power (albeit fairly slight) that Manectric has over Electrode does aid it in wearing down the Electric-type checks you mentioned (Mesprit?) faster than Electrode is able to with Volt Switches, which is always beneficial. You also fail to mention Manectric's access to Switcheroo for its choiced sets which gives it a decently significant niche over Electrode.

The main reason I see Manectric as outclassed by other Electric-types in the tier is not because pokemon such as Raichu and Electrode outclass it offensively, but more so that other options such as Rotom and Lanturn actually provide a real defensive niche to teams that is invaluable when teambuilding. The added utility of Rotom checking Pokemon such as Tauros, Klinklang, and Primeape, or for Lanturn checking Fire and Water-types makes both of these Pokemon far more splashable and more consistent than an Electric-type such as Manectric.

 

[Punchshroom]

This comparison still doesn't feel particularly right; Manectric's closest competition would be Zebstrika and Electivire than anything else, due to their similar coverage. Manectric boasts the most power among the three, though it lacks Zebra's more favourable Speed tier and EVire's access to Earthquake. Manectric does still have Switcheroo to help set itself further apart of it so chooses.