Maybe D rank, but I don't see how Pikachu could belong in E rank. Of course it is riddled with weaknesses, but it has some very specific strong points which make me believe that there should be no reason to put it in the "stuff you should never use under any circumstance" group.
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Lower Tiers PU Viability Rankings
- Thread starter Anty
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You are underestimating the fact that Pikachu hits hard without getting locked into one move . 436 Sp.Atk is a lot. And it may not have "amazing" coverage, but it does have at least good coverage. In the special set, Electric STAB + Water and Ice coverage covers basically everything. Yeah, it's not fast, and it dies easily, but it has some redeeming qualities.
I'm not saying Pikachu is a better choice than stuff like Raichu or Rotom-F. I'm saying that it is not useless, which is what most people seem to think.
You won't convince anyone just by being stubborn and stating large stats. Provide tangible evidence of what Pikachu's power can accomplish by listing RELEVANT calcs, replays, and ways to use it other than just Sticky Web (especially since that just limits people to Sticky Web teams). Remember, you may have had some good battles with a Pokemon, but no one plans on using your exact team; showing people how a Pokemon can be used in a variety of different teams/strategies is far more convincing than just stating the same facts over and over. You also NEED to note what Pikachu can do that no other fast and frail Electric-type can do, or it's pointlessly outclassed.
Note that this isn't going to guarantee everything, as people have been trying to get Pikachu ranked (or ranked higher) for a long time and have continuously used the same arguments. Try a different angle is my advice.
EDIT: Er, maybe let's please give the guy a break and either up his evidence, or just let it go... there's probably far more important things to look at rather than Pikachu, no offense guys.
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The thing is the cost of running pikachu vastly out ranks any values it can bring for one it has to run Light ball leaving it unable to run anything else, while the same can be said for Zebstrika who pretty much excessively uses Life orb, it's speed tier and coverage is much better. It really can not do anything other electric types can do better so i feel it really deserves to stay unranked.
Also anything pikachu does has to be countered with that unless it is running light ball, electabuzz can do it better since it can run Evio as well or any there item except light ball better. Aka the outclassing issue, not just with mons like raichu electabuzz, and zeb but also with very relevant Evio users.
Answer this question:
What does Pikachu accomplish that Raichu, Zebstrika, or Rotom-F doesn't?
If you can find an answer, then you can make an argument. If you can't, then you can't make an argument.
Pikachu is unviable. It needs Light Ball, is frail as shit, requires shittons of support, and offers so little utility that is outclassed in almost every single instance. Period.
Pikachu is a Pokémon whose numbers lie. While 436 Sp. Attack sounds terrifying, the fact that it doesn't carry a Life Orb or any other boosting item as other electric-types means the difference in power is not as much as one would think at first. For example:
252 SpA Light Ball Pikachu Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Arbok: 198-234 (75.8 - 89.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery.
252 SpA Life Orb Rotom-F Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Arbok: 199-235 (76.2 - 90%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery.
More or less the same power, but with a much bulkier Pokémon with strong STAB coverage that can do much more.
252 SpA Light Ball Pikachu Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Arbok: 198-234 (75.8 - 89.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery.
252 SpA Life Orb Rotom-F Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Arbok: 199-235 (76.2 - 90%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery.
More or less the same power, but with a much bulkier Pokémon with strong STAB coverage that can do much more.
Ok, not saying Pikachu is great or anything but I'm not sure why people think Pikachu is a special attacker. Wild Charge (T-Punch) / Knock Off / Extremespeed / Surf is an good enough lure.
What does it do that other electric types don't?
Unlike Zeb and Electrode (and some Riachu sets) Pikachu can actually beat Camerupt without even touching surf.
Pikachu has a good chance of KOing Roselia at full health, something Electrode can only dream of doing without killing itself, and Zeb can't even do it. Riachu loses also (or kills itself in the process)
Pikachu is harder to revenge kill because of Extremespeed, it does at least 50% if not more to the other priority users in the tier or just faster threats like Float and Basculin and the three monkeys.
Pikachu 2HKOs Audino, something Zeb can't do, Electrode can only taunt it.
Pikachu beats Munchlax, something the other three will never do.
Surf + Extremespeed means golem can't switch in and sucker punch after a possible boost from Weakness Policy.
Pikachu also beats Electabuzz and Rotom F. Hell, Rotom-F can't even switch into Extremespeed if stealth rock is up.
Even with limited Spatk investment, Stunkfisk isn't a great check because it is 3HKO'd by Surf, so it can only switch in once, meanwhile it can switch in more than once on Electrode and Zeb.
What does it do that other electric types don't?
Unlike Zeb and Electrode (and some Riachu sets) Pikachu can actually beat Camerupt without even touching surf.
Pikachu has a good chance of KOing Roselia at full health, something Electrode can only dream of doing without killing itself, and Zeb can't even do it. Riachu loses also (or kills itself in the process)
Pikachu is harder to revenge kill because of Extremespeed, it does at least 50% if not more to the other priority users in the tier or just faster threats like Float and Basculin and the three monkeys.
Pikachu 2HKOs Audino, something Zeb can't do, Electrode can only taunt it.
Pikachu beats Munchlax, something the other three will never do.
Surf + Extremespeed means golem can't switch in and sucker punch after a possible boost from Weakness Policy.
Pikachu also beats Electabuzz and Rotom F. Hell, Rotom-F can't even switch into Extremespeed if stealth rock is up.
Even with limited Spatk investment, Stunkfisk isn't a great check because it is 3HKO'd by Surf, so it can only switch in once, meanwhile it can switch in more than once on Electrode and Zeb.
Golem can't switch in for free on any electric-type due to Focus Blast and Hidden Power Ice. Also, most of the time, Stealth Rock will be up, so Sturdy will be broken.
Pikachu can do 50% to those threats; it proceeds to get OHKO'd immediately. This makes it near worthless in these situations.
Pikachu can stay in Audio and 2HKO it in a world without Knock Off or Double-Edge, which is not this one.
Again, Pikachu can do over half, while Munchlax proceeds to do massive damage to it, if you intend to sacc a pokemon for no reason.
Also, all of this implies perfect prediction, which is rare to come by given how anything can be exploited in this metagame.
Pikachu is heavily outclassed and unviable in any way, shape or form by something else.
Sure, Pikachu is officially considered unviable, and sure we (the PU chat) have been drilling into your heads that every pokemon ranked in E is unviable. But maybe you guys could take a second to actually think about it for a second rather than just jumping on anyone who suggests it?
I'm not a fan of Pikachu, but it does have some redeeming traits. Special attacking Pikachu seems to be totally outclassed by its evolution Raichu, because it only hits slightly harder while it. However, physically offensive Pikachu has something pretty notable- a powerful and recoil-less Extremespeed. Pikachu's Espeed is not enough to OHKO most of the offensive pokemon in the tier, but it does a hefty chunk to the likes of Floatzel, Zebstrika, and the Simis. (252+ Atk Light Ball Pikachu Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Floatzel: 180-212 (57.8 - 68.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO) When so many pokemon in PU are worn down a lot by hazards and recoil, that should not be taken lightly. So basically you have something with an ok speed tier, and with decent power to break through some balance pokemon, that also has a nice powerful priority.
Something like this moveset below I could see being feasible:
Pikachu @ Light Ball
Ability: Static
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Lonely Nature
- Wild Charge
- Knock Off
- Extreme Speed
- Surf/Brick Break
Of course, it really isn't powerful enough to break walls like Gourgeist and Tangela, and it still dies to an one hit, so I don't think it would be enough for me to rank it. But I can see where people like Shouting are coming from. A strategy that could be really interesting with Pikachu could be SD pass Mawile to Pikachu. When Pikachu has a +2 it is able to OHKO just about every offensive pokemon with its powerful Extreme Speed. I've tried this strategy with SD pass Mienfoo as a gimmick, and it's actually fairly dangerous. It still needs a bit of support to get past the likes of Stunfisk and Tangela, and you need to predict against normal resists with priority like Mawile and Golem, but it seems like a workable strategy. I think this might be enough to give Pika a D-ranking, combined with the fact that it's not totally awful in normal situations due to Espeed bailing it out a lot. Still, I would have to try it out though before making an actual nomination and I encourage others to do the same!
I'm not saying necessarily you have to agree with me, but just keep an open mind before dismissing every single thing about something that is in E-rank.
I'm not a fan of Pikachu, but it does have some redeeming traits. Special attacking Pikachu seems to be totally outclassed by its evolution Raichu, because it only hits slightly harder while it. However, physically offensive Pikachu has something pretty notable- a powerful and recoil-less Extremespeed. Pikachu's Espeed is not enough to OHKO most of the offensive pokemon in the tier, but it does a hefty chunk to the likes of Floatzel, Zebstrika, and the Simis. (252+ Atk Light Ball Pikachu Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Floatzel: 180-212 (57.8 - 68.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO) When so many pokemon in PU are worn down a lot by hazards and recoil, that should not be taken lightly. So basically you have something with an ok speed tier, and with decent power to break through some balance pokemon, that also has a nice powerful priority.
Something like this moveset below I could see being feasible:
Pikachu @ Light Ball
Ability: Static
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Lonely Nature
- Wild Charge
- Knock Off
- Extreme Speed
- Surf/Brick Break
Of course, it really isn't powerful enough to break walls like Gourgeist and Tangela, and it still dies to an one hit, so I don't think it would be enough for me to rank it. But I can see where people like Shouting are coming from. A strategy that could be really interesting with Pikachu could be SD pass Mawile to Pikachu. When Pikachu has a +2 it is able to OHKO just about every offensive pokemon with its powerful Extreme Speed. I've tried this strategy with SD pass Mienfoo as a gimmick, and it's actually fairly dangerous. It still needs a bit of support to get past the likes of Stunfisk and Tangela, and you need to predict against normal resists with priority like Mawile and Golem, but it seems like a workable strategy. I think this might be enough to give Pika a D-ranking, combined with the fact that it's not totally awful in normal situations due to Espeed bailing it out a lot. Still, I would have to try it out though before making an actual nomination and I encourage others to do the same!
I'm not saying necessarily you have to agree with me, but just keep an open mind before dismissing every single thing about something that is in E-rank.
It may have a niche, but it is so small and usually overshadowed by literally everything else that it is only worth using on extremely specific teams.Sure, Pikachu is officially considered unviable, and sure we (the PU chat) have been drilling into your heads that every pokemon ranked in E is unviable. But maybe you guys could take a second to actually think about it for a second rather than just jumping on anyone who suggests it?
I'm not a fan of Pikachu, but it does have some redeeming traits. Special attacking Pikachu seems to be totally outclassed by its evolution Raichu, because it only hits slightly harder while it. However, physically offensive Pikachu has something pretty notable- a powerful and recoil-less Extremespeed. Pikachu's Espeed is not enough to OHKO most of the offensive pokemon in the tier, but it does a hefty chunk to the likes of Floatzel, Zebstrika, and the Simis. (252+ Atk Light Ball Pikachu Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Floatzel: 180-212 (57.8 - 68.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO) When so many pokemon in PU are worn down a lot by hazards and recoil, that should not be taken lightly. So basically you have something with an ok speed tier, and with decent power to break through some balance pokemon, that also has a nice powerful priority.
Something like this moveset below I could see being feasible:
Pikachu @ Light Ball
Ability: Static
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Lonely Nature
- Wild Charge
- Knock Off
- Extreme Speed
- Surf/Brick Break
Of course, it really isn't powerful enough to break walls like Gourgeist and Tangela, and it still dies to an one hit, so I don't think it would be enough for me to rank it. But I can see where people like Shouting are coming from. A strategy that could be really interesting with Pikachu could be SD pass Mawile to Pikachu. When Pikachu has a +2 it is able to OHKO just about every offensive pokemon with its powerful Extreme Speed. I've tried this strategy with SD pass Mienfoo as a gimmick, and it's actually fairly dangerous. It still needs a bit of support to get past the likes of Stunfisk and Tangela, and you need to predict against normal resists with priority like Mawile and Golem, but it seems like a workable strategy. I think this might be enough to give Pika a D-ranking, combined with the fact that it's not totally awful in normal situations due to Espeed bailing it out a lot. Still, I would have to try it out though before making an actual nomination and I encourage others to do the same!
I'm not saying necessarily you have to agree with me, but just keep an open mind before dismissing every single thing about something that is in E-rank.
pikachu is not getting ranked, even its best niche of strong espeed isn't amazing when it's still easy to wall (especially since espeed takes away all of your decent coverage options) and there are much better frail cleaners like the much stronger and overall more useful murkrow and the much, much stronger scarf chatot. it's just not viable, and further posts on it will be deleted.
Clefairy @ Eviolite
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 248 Def / 8 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Thunder Wave/Stealth Rock/Knock Off
- Calm Mind
- Moonblast
- Soft-Boiled
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 248 Def / 8 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Thunder Wave/Stealth Rock/Knock Off
- Calm Mind
- Moonblast
- Soft-Boiled
Hello everyone! In case you haven't noticed, Clefairy is a savage in the PU metagame right now. Bulky machoke has become the new top tier threat in PU and as a result gourgeist-xl has risen to handle any hax shenanigans it wants to spread. Not only does clef give you a status absorber and a gourg counter, it can check machoke, serve as a stealth rocker, serve as a mixed wall, twave setup mons, and setup CM itself. Clef has become quite the potent threat in this metagame and I often find myself tossing it onto teams that need a little extra bulk and something that can handle volt/turn cores while avoiding being passive. Also, it finds a way to use meta trends to its advantage and get free setup opportunities on passive walls.
In addition to the mons mentioned above, clef can check a number of huge metagame threats like Rotom, Monferno, Golem, and weaker choice locked special mons like Mime. Also, being able to switch into most hazard removal options and setup/SR on them gives it plenty of opportunities to apply immediate pressure to your opponent.
Monferno, Klang, Stunfisk, Gabite, Rapidash and mons that are easily walled by gourgeist (like machoke/leafeon) are just a few things that benefit from being paired with Clefairy. I've seen it used on everything from Bulky HO that needs a status absorber to semi-stall that uses it alongside machoke to spread maximum hax. It's quite versatile and twave allows it to whittle/cripple many of its threats for other teammates.
Overall, clef definitely deserves a bump in rank. The meta is shifting towards one that is favorable for it and it can add so much to a team in just one slot. Thanks for reading!
I could see raising Clefairy from B+ to A-, and think a small bump in rank could be justifiable in this current metagame especially if you examine its effectiveness in recent games from PUPL like Raseri v Teddeh here.Clefairy B+ -> A-
Clefairy @ Eviolite
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 248 Def / 8 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Thunder Wave/Stealth Rock/Knock Off
- Calm Mind
- Moonblast
- Soft-Boiled
Hello everyone! In case you haven't noticed, Clefairy is a savage in the PU metagame right now. Bulky machoke has become the new top tier threat in PU and as a result gourgeist-xl has risen to handle any hax shenanigans it wants to spread. Not only does clef give you a status absorber and a gourg counter, it can check machoke, serve as a stealth rocker, serve as a mixed wall, twave setup mons, and setup CM itself. Clef has become quite the potent threat in this metagame and I often find myself tossing it onto teams that need a little extra bulk and something that can handle volt/turn cores while avoiding being passive. Also, it finds a way to use meta trends to its advantage and get free setup opportunities on passive walls.
In addition to the mons mentioned above, clef can check a number of huge metagame threats like Rotom, Monferno, Golem, and weaker choice locked special mons like Mime. Also, being able to switch into most hazard removal options and setup/SR on them gives it plenty of opportunities to apply immediate pressure to your opponent.
Monferno, Klang, Stunfisk, Gabite, Rapidash and mons that are easily walled by gourgeist (like machoke/leafeon) are just a few things that benefit from being paired with Clefairy. I've seen it used on everything from Bulky HO that needs a status absorber to semi-stall that uses it alongside machoke to spread maximum hax. It's quite versatile and twave allows it to whittle/cripple many of its threats for other teammates.
Overall, clef definitely deserves a bump in rank. The meta is shifting towards one that is favorable for it and it can add so much to a team in just one slot. Thanks for reading!
I also agree with the majority of your post, especially where you highlight Clefairy's ability to take advantage of passive walls like Stunfisk and Gourgeist-XL (and to add my own examples to this list, Lumineon and Vullaby), but quantifying Clefairy as a Rotom-F check as you have here seems a little dubious. Using Clefairy to switch into components of VoltTurn like Rotom-F will often just result in Clefairy being pivoted on into a more reliable Clefairy check, or if you're using Clefairy to switch into Rotom-F directly, Rotom-F can simply Trick its Choice Scarf, thus crippling Clefairy for the remainder of the match. To clarify, I don't think Clefairy can be considered a reliable check because even in 1 on 1 scenarios prior to setup and Rotom-F's item being scouted, Life Orb variants of Rotom-F can beat CM Clefairy, while TrickScarf prevents this matchup from always being in Clefairy's favor. Just to confirm this, I tested this both with full teams, and in replays where Teddeh and I only brought CM Bold Clefairy / LO or Trick Rotom-F, respectively, but I didn't let him know which item I would be using. http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/pu-381871773 / http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/pu-381871492
But, you can keep in mind that this small clarification should not detract at all from your larger point, which is that Clefairy takes advantage of current metagame trends by setting up on passive walls that are commonly used to address some of the meta's more potent threats.
Alongside this nomination for clefairy, i'd like to propose we also move duosion up to A-.
For similar reasons, I'd suggest that duosion is one of the hardest things to break in this tier, despite being weak to knock off / losing its evio, the cm aa set has become punishing on teams that lack a resist for these sorts of things, whilst beating things like cm clefairy regularly with psyshock. Magic guard for status mons like stunfisk / gourgeist means it's really good in common meta and i'd argue it's equally as viable as clefairy. Furthermore the lack of dark types / decrease in popularity of vullaby means its easily one of the scariest sweepers to face at the moment due to its amazing bulk + power after a calm mind / acid armor.
For similar reasons, I'd suggest that duosion is one of the hardest things to break in this tier, despite being weak to knock off / losing its evio, the cm aa set has become punishing on teams that lack a resist for these sorts of things, whilst beating things like cm clefairy regularly with psyshock. Magic guard for status mons like stunfisk / gourgeist means it's really good in common meta and i'd argue it's equally as viable as clefairy. Furthermore the lack of dark types / decrease in popularity of vullaby means its easily one of the scariest sweepers to face at the moment due to its amazing bulk + power after a calm mind / acid armor.
Take Azelfie
More flags more fun
Strange nom but
Phione
E ---> D / C-
Been testing out Phone for a little bit and I think it is actually kind of useful. First of all SPD Rain Setter is garbage and should never be used. I have been using a set consisting of Scald, U-turn, Knock Off and a filler which has been either Heal Bell, Toxic or Icy Wind.The good thing here is the combo of Knock Off and U-Turn crippling common Water-type Switch ins like removing eviolite from Tangela and Qwil and Leftovers and Specs from Poli and Lapras. The first being easier to whittle down and the second losing its wall breaking power. Scald is Scald. The last move is also dependent on your team like Toxic is useful for stuff like Gogoat and Audino but if TSpikes is already structured into the team Icy Wind can screw around with Zeb trying to switch into weak Scald. Heal Bell is more of a BO thing but it works in almost any team structure. But yh I think Phione has a lot more utility than the stuff sitting in D Rank like Natu.
Phione
E ---> D / C-
Been testing out Phone for a little bit and I think it is actually kind of useful. First of all SPD Rain Setter is garbage and should never be used. I have been using a set consisting of Scald, U-turn, Knock Off and a filler which has been either Heal Bell, Toxic or Icy Wind.The good thing here is the combo of Knock Off and U-Turn crippling common Water-type Switch ins like removing eviolite from Tangela and Qwil and Leftovers and Specs from Poli and Lapras. The first being easier to whittle down and the second losing its wall breaking power. Scald is Scald. The last move is also dependent on your team like Toxic is useful for stuff like Gogoat and Audino but if TSpikes is already structured into the team Icy Wind can screw around with Zeb trying to switch into weak Scald. Heal Bell is more of a BO thing but it works in almost any team structure. But yh I think Phione has a lot more utility than the stuff sitting in D Rank like Natu.
I have to disagree b/c I still don't rly see the niche. Like knock and u-turn are good moves but still don't rly make phione worth using- if it's a semi-defensive Pokemon it actually has to check some relevant threats to a degree others can't. And I'm seeing it can't even check stuff like special waters well since it does poor damage back. I guess it can check monferno and stuff if physdef, but so can others like prinp and swan a and they provide some REAL utility. Mono-water just isn't a good typing in PU unless it comes with something special like water absorb or defog, and knock/uturn aren't special
I'm on my phone so sorry for bad post
EDIT: oh yeah heal bell too but still I'd rather use that on a Pokemon that can actually switch into more than 1 or 2 threats
I'm on my phone so sorry for bad post
EDIT: oh yeah heal bell too but still I'd rather use that on a Pokemon that can actually switch into more than 1 or 2 threats
I'm actually surprised that Eeletrick isn't to be found on the rankings. I've been using it frequently latetly and it actually pulls some serious weight. 65 / 70 / 70 defenses backed up by a decent attack stat and a good movepool make for a pokemon fit for around C-rank.
You might be wondering why you would use it over electabuzz. I have some reasons:
+ Coil
+ Knock Off
+ Super Fang
+ Slow U-turn (can't be blocked)
+ Better Physical Bulk
+ Levitate (no weaknesses and immunity to spikes? yes please)
Because it has no weaknesses and great bulk with eviolite, it can basically survive any hit and hit moderately hard back. It's a very good check to water types. For example, +2 Huntail will always OHKO Electabuzz but struggles to even 2HKO Eeletrik.
It can also check Golem,Propobass and Stunfisk, etc. Best of all it can actually do something productive against bulkier pokemon and Grass types like Roselia with Super Fang and / or Knock Off.
Granted, it is very slow and has no recovery, which is a bummer, but immunity to (T)spikes really helps it not get worn down so easily. Being Slow actually is kind of nice for U-turn / Volt Switch, which lets you bring in something for free. Coil means it isn't a one trick pony like most electric types are and gives it some versatility.
You might be wondering why you would use it over electabuzz. I have some reasons:
+ Coil
+ Knock Off
+ Super Fang
+ Slow U-turn (can't be blocked)
+ Better Physical Bulk
+ Levitate (no weaknesses and immunity to spikes? yes please)
Because it has no weaknesses and great bulk with eviolite, it can basically survive any hit and hit moderately hard back. It's a very good check to water types. For example, +2 Huntail will always OHKO Electabuzz but struggles to even 2HKO Eeletrik.
It can also check Golem,Propobass and Stunfisk, etc. Best of all it can actually do something productive against bulkier pokemon and Grass types like Roselia with Super Fang and / or Knock Off.
Granted, it is very slow and has no recovery, which is a bummer, but immunity to (T)spikes really helps it not get worn down so easily. Being Slow actually is kind of nice for U-turn / Volt Switch, which lets you bring in something for free. Coil means it isn't a one trick pony like most electric types are and gives it some versatility.
With Chinchou gaining popularity for a similar role (slow, fat Volt Switch pivot) I'd be interested to see how they stack up. My instinct is that while having no weaknesses is useful, having resistances is more important, and in that category Chinchou's typing is actually much better and more useful than Eelektrik's despite sporting two relatively exploitable weaknesses. For instance, Chinchou resists both of Articuno and Swanna's STABs, as well as resisting the Ice/Fire coverage moves that most opposing Electric types like Zebstrika, Eletrode, Rotom-F and Raichu carry. And while it does take spikes damage, it can actually heal it off if it manages to switch into an Electric attack with Volt Absorb - whereas Eelektrik won't take spikes damage but it will take chip damage from Electric attacks, so it will actually end up worse off switching into opposing Electrics despite being bulkier and Levitating.
For starters, Chinchou is weak and has base 38 defense, which isn't a lot. Even with max investment and eviolite it can't take physical attacks well. For the record, Volt Switch from Chinchou wont even come close to OHKO Naughty (thats -SpD) Huntail. Scald doesn't break Articuno Sub (or really any respectable sub for that matter...) and Volt Switch will force it out.
Chinchou is probably a better fit on a stall-ish team as part of a solid core. Eeletrik probably on something like bulky offense.
However, Eelektrik has U-turn if you want to use it and can break through bulkier pokemon through Super Fang and Coil. With Coil, Eelektrik can beat pokemon such as Audino, while Chinchou will never do anything against it. Eelekrtrik is also better at walling Metang and Probopass.
Also - Even with max SpD investment and Eviolite, NP Raichu wins against Chinchou. Scald only does like 30% at most so if you come in on a NP you definitely lose because +6 Focus Blast OHKOs and Raichu will still be at around 25%
I'd like to disagree, chinchou stops the other team's momentum and has the option of volt switch to gain your own momentum. Eel does not stop the volt switch, hence things like zebstrika can pivot on it as well as rotom-f, which is also hard walled by chinchou. Comparing these two for the same role, i would rather use chinchou 99% of the time for the fact it blocks the volt switch, hence just by it being on your team, it can force the opponent to make uncomfortable plays by not clicking volt switch and hence you gain more momentum.
Secondly, you're advertising its variety of moves, hence would not be running recovery rest-talk? Hence can't act as a status absorber, whilst also getting worn down through the duration of the match rather easily. So not only will things be volt switching on it (that is what you're advertising it for right?), it can also be taking hazard damage and chip damage with no way of recovering it back, whilst also being a weak pos.
Hence I'd like to disagree with this nomination.
Chinchou doesn't resist Articuno's stabs, because most of the time Articuno uses Freeze Dry. The eelektrik set i like is spark coil rest sleep talk tho, but you have to make sure your opponents ground types are gone.
Edit: it would be in either the A or S rank, which are listed by viability, if that makes any sense.
Edit again: PU chat told me I could do this. Trusting them. Post incoming.
Nominating Machoke for top of S rank.
With Machoke's current spot at the bottom of the S rank, in my opinion, does not do it justice. This obviously isn't a huge nom because it's only moving up one spot in a rank. However, I believe this is a more accurate interpretation of the current meta.
Floatzel is an extremely good Pokemon in the PU tier. It is hard to switch into, fairly splash-able, especially onto balance and HO teams, and can run multiple sets which increase the difficulty of switching into it.
However, Floatzel has counters. Floatzel tends to run Choice Band or Choice Specs, so Politoed and Lapras can easily switch into it when you know what set Floatzel is running and KO it with HP Electric and Freeze-Dry respectively. In addition, Floatzel is frail, allowing faster Pokemon like Choice Scarf Dodrio to easily KO it with their STAB moves. Floatzel is very good, but it is healthy for the meta in that it can be played around and has checks.
Meanwhile, Machoke is also extremely splashable. Unlike Floatzel, it can be used on balance, HO, or STALL. It has a very high attack power and is a reliable wallbreaker. It usually runs Rest-Talk with Dynamic Punch, but you must be careful for random Guts sets. As a result, burning Machoke is not a good way to deal with it like other physical attackers in this tier; it can either use Rest or gain power with Guts.
This becomes even more relevant when you realize that there are only a few checks and counters to Machoke that you don't have to go out of your way to use. Gourgeist-Super and Defensive Swanna are the only two counters that I can think of that aren't bad like Dustox and Swalot. Not to mention, most wallbreakers are not able to OHKO Machoke and are severely weakened by Dynamic Punch or Knock Off.
Finally, there's the luck aspect. The fact that Machoke has a 100% confusion move that deals damage makes it extremely swingy. Battles can be decided by whether or not the opponent hits themselves on their confusion. Check out Megazard's post from the Complex Bans thread, talking about the meme team that had Machoke, Machop and Golett.
Watching some of those replays may make it real how relevant, swingy, and splashable Machoke is in this meta. I believe these characteristics of it make it outclass Floatzel for the top of this tier's S rank.
edit: I know I didn't HAVE to make this long post to change positions in ranks, but I wanted to.
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