No. I have never seen a single Heatran that runs Stone Edge. Anyway, Ulgamoth can run HP Rock/Ground, which takes Heatran out after a number of BDs.
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Volcarona
- Thread starter Rising_Dusk
- Start date
No. I have never seen a single Heatran that runs Stone Edge. Anyway, Ulgamoth can run HP Rock/Ground, which takes Heatran out after a number of BDs.
Stone Edge is honestly unreliable(its like Focus Blast, you stick it onto the Pokemon because there simply isn't something better to use)
Standard Tran runs Flamethrower/Fire Blast, Earth Power, a HP of your liking/Dragon Pulse and Explosion. And unless you explode on something that is bulky(Blissey/P2) Explosion > Stone Edge.
Assuming ScarfTran, Explosion will always KO after Stealth Rock.(Honestly, if you run Ulgamoth without spin support I laugh). Explosion does 78.8%-92.8% on Ulgamoth, meaning that with a layer of Spikes Ulgamoth still lives in its dying breath(which could be bad for sets running Swarm). That amount of HP means Ulgamoth dies immediately to a strong priority attack like Luke's ExtremeSpeed.
Standard Tran runs Flamethrower/Fire Blast, Earth Power, a HP of your liking/Dragon Pulse and Explosion. And unless you explode on something that is bulky(Blissey/P2) Explosion > Stone Edge.
Assuming ScarfTran, Explosion will always KO after Stealth Rock.(Honestly, if you run Ulgamoth without spin support I laugh). Explosion does 78.8%-92.8% on Ulgamoth, meaning that with a layer of Spikes Ulgamoth still lives in its dying breath(which could be bad for sets running Swarm). That amount of HP means Ulgamoth dies immediately to a strong priority attack like Luke's ExtremeSpeed.
I run Ulga w/o spin support, since I can block SR without much issue,
For a set, Xatu and Espeon are great teammates, able to take Thunder Waves, Toxics, and the reflect the dreaded Stealth Rock.
At the most like I said earlier, have him holding Leftovers to help recover from that 50%.
Stone Edge is unreliable and I've never seen a heatran running one. They try to spam fire blast, but that doesn't work very well.
For a set, Xatu and Espeon are great teammates, able to take Thunder Waves, Toxics, and the reflect the dreaded Stealth Rock.
At the most like I said earlier, have him holding Leftovers to help recover from that 50%.
Stone Edge is unreliable and I've never seen a heatran running one. They try to spam fire blast, but that doesn't work very well.
Ulgamoth dies to a Lucario's Extremespeed after Stealth Rocks, remember? Anyway, Scarftran often won't manage to outspeed Ulgamoth. It'll only happen if Ulgamoth switches in on Scarftran (unlikely situation). After 1 Butterfly Dance Ulgamoth already outspeeds any Scarfed Heatran (77 base speed curse) and can pop their balloon with Bug Buzz/KO outright with HP Ground. In other words, SCARFTRAN: THREAT WHAT?
The biggest threat to Ulgamoth is a strong fast physical attacker. Little fits this bill as Ulgamoth outspeeds almost everything after a +1 and kills it with Flame Dance/Bug Buzz, not to mention that while Ulgamoth has a horrible defensive typing this 'curse' also gives it a resist to the two most common forms of priority: Fighting/Steel. There's Aqua Jet but the main user is Azumarill, who sucks because of Nattorei.
Altho still, with the morning sun set it doesn't apply that much if SS/RD is up as morning sun wont heal enough (I think burunkeru does about 25% after 2 BDs or smth, meaning I can't heal it off in SS/rain).
Um...what? I've never once seen a Heatran with Stone Edge. Not once. And it dies handily to HP Ground (which Ulgamoth carries often).
Heatran isn't really that solid of a counter to begin with. It almost always loses one-on-one thanks to the spdef boost of butterfly dance and the fact that Ulgamoth usually packs a third move for coverage. Even Psychic allows it to win.
Apart from Chansey/Blissey, Terakion is the best counter hands down. It is not OHKOd from any +1 move that Ulgamoth can throw at it and easily OHKOs in return.
Are we still on the Heatran subject? Ulga's most common Hidden Power hits for Neutral or SE damage. Heatran's offense is often a special inaccurate neutral move - Ulga's special defense is a stat that's raised every turn. Ulgamoth can KO a specially defensive Heatran in a low number of turns. Far from being a counter, Heatran is more often set-up fodder.
Toxic Burungel and Terakkion - these are the counters you want. Blissey seems like a textbook counter, but unless it's running toxic it's going to have holes blown in it too.
Toxic Burungel and Terakkion - these are the counters you want. Blissey seems like a textbook counter, but unless it's running toxic it's going to have holes blown in it too.
I've actually considered HP Grass at times just to get past annoying shit like Roaring Swampert and Burungel. Heatran's fucked after enough Butterfly Dances anyway, and you could just get a SpD drop off Bug Buzz.
HP Grass will get Water/Grass no problem, but Burungel can still take boosted SE Hidden Power and kill you off with Hydro Pump.
I have never seen a Burungel run anything stronger than Surf.
You can also counter fire moth with cloyster running a focus sash. Rock Blast will hit it with 4x SE 125 Base Power
He really isn't much of a counter if you have to basically sack him off.
I thought the definition of a counter was something like
1. can switch into this guy without suiciding in the process
2. packs a move that can one-shot this guy
3. doesn't need to kamikaze
if you need to sack something to kill someone, you are better off saying that anything with Explosion is a counter to everything not called Gengar.
1. can switch into this guy without suiciding in the process
2. packs a move that can one-shot this guy
3. doesn't need to kamikaze
if you need to sack something to kill someone, you are better off saying that anything with Explosion is a counter to everything not called Gengar.
Yea, so Cloyster would really have to be a revenge killer for Ulgamoth.
Yeah, counters are pokemon that switch in with impunity and beat it one on one with no problems.
Which is not what Cloyster does.
And Sash Cloyster is bad. Stealth Rock ruins it. So does Sandstorm. And Spikes. And Tspikes. And getting hurt. Midgame sashes suck.
Also, what if Urugu sees your Sashster in Team Preview and Fire Dance+Bug Buzzes to catch it? Therefore, it's even less of a counter.
lol Stone Edge Heatran
Psychic FTW
And no love for Snorlax?
Which is not what Cloyster does.
And Sash Cloyster is bad. Stealth Rock ruins it. So does Sandstorm. And Spikes. And Tspikes. And getting hurt. Midgame sashes suck.
Also, what if Urugu sees your Sashster in Team Preview and Fire Dance+Bug Buzzes to catch it? Therefore, it's even less of a counter.
lol Stone Edge Heatran
Psychic FTW
And no love for Snorlax?
this is false actually as it has wind storm(which i happen to carry on mines)
Thunder wave blissey/chansey still takes care of it. Even +6 fire dance does less than 50% to evolution stone chansey. You won't actually get up to +6 as you get killed with 4 seismic tosses assuming you came in on full health. Very easy to softboiled stall until you get a paralysis and then kill it at full health.
+1 psychic does not ohko terakion and windstorm is a really bad idea.
Consider how many sets use Focus Blast for coverage, or rely on Sleep Powder/WoW which aren't much better. 70 accuracy is shaky, but usable. Also consider the popularity of rain teams. I'd still probably run Psychic or HP over it, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't expect it every now and then.
I tested windstorm for a while and it's terrible. Focus Blast is also considered one of the worst moves in the game. It's a desperation move used on a handful of ghosts and psychics that have no better options, and these pokemon are all much lower tier than they should be because they are forced to rely on an unreliable move. Could you imagine what Gengar's usage would be like with Aura Sphere?
But the real point I was trying to make is that Terakion is neutral to Flying and it doesn't OHKO even with +1. Windstorm doesn't offer any real additional coverage to bug/fire. It's neutral or resisted by stuff that resists both stabs exluding the Fire/Fighters, Kerudio (doesn't exist yet) and Poliwrath (rarely seen). Heatran, Burengel and Blissey/Chansey aren't the least bit afraid of Windstorm.
I've been running 252/252 bold Morning Sun set all day and i'm not really that impressed. A physically defensive set is definitely the way to go, but Morning Sun just sits there. I never use it. I thought it could be used to easily win some Heatran battles, but Trans always seem to have toxic. I also think 252/252 is a bit extreme, since even some stabbed EQs weren't even 2HKOing me. I think the EVs could be a little more specific.
But the real point I was trying to make is that Terakion is neutral to Flying and it doesn't OHKO even with +1. Windstorm doesn't offer any real additional coverage to bug/fire. It's neutral or resisted by stuff that resists both stabs exluding the Fire/Fighters, Kerudio (doesn't exist yet) and Poliwrath (rarely seen). Heatran, Burengel and Blissey/Chansey aren't the least bit afraid of Windstorm.
I've been running 252/252 bold Morning Sun set all day and i'm not really that impressed. A physically defensive set is definitely the way to go, but Morning Sun just sits there. I never use it. I thought it could be used to easily win some Heatran battles, but Trans always seem to have toxic. I also think 252/252 is a bit extreme, since even some stabbed EQs weren't even 2HKOing me. I think the EVs could be a little more specific.
Oh please, no it isn't. Yeah, the accuracy can screw you over, but the fact that many Pokemon do use it for a powerful coverage move means that it is perfectly usable and not a terrible move. It gets the job done.
As for Windstorm, I agree that it probably isn't the best option. I don't think comparing it to Focus Blast is accurate since it doesn't offer the same kind of coverage that Focus Blast offers to the Pokemon that use it. The risk of missing doesn't seem to be worth it in this case as the payoff isn't as significant as using Focus Blast.
