There's always Toxic. Or just the possibility of crit-stalling
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Volcarona
- Thread starter Rising_Dusk
- Start date
What's this about Chansey and Blissey walling Ulgamoth to hell and back?
+1 Timid 252 SpA Life Orb Ulgamoth using Fire Blast in the Sun vs 252/0 neutral Evo Stone Chansey: 53.4% - 63.1%; guaranteed 2HKO.
+1 Modest 252 SpA Lum Berry (to beat T-wave) Ulgamoth using Fire Blast in the Sun vs 252/0 Evo Stone Chansey: 41.1% - 48.6%; with two layers of spikes, it's an almost guaranteed 2HKO, and with SR and one layer of Spikes, it's guaranteed. This calc also applies for Specs Ulgamoth.
252 SpDef Calm T-Wave Chansey can beat Ulgamoth, but entry hazard (Toxic Spikes in particular) support means she can only switch out so many times, allowing teammates to deal with her before Ulgamoth comes in. Also, running such a set makes her even more vulnerable to physical attacks, notably Pursuit. Chansey can be taken care of, and once she is, Ulgamoth is a fearsome sweeper.
+1 Timid 252 SpA Life Orb Ulgamoth using Fire Blast in the Sun vs 252/0 neutral Evo Stone Chansey: 53.4% - 63.1%; guaranteed 2HKO.
+1 Modest 252 SpA Lum Berry (to beat T-wave) Ulgamoth using Fire Blast in the Sun vs 252/0 Evo Stone Chansey: 41.1% - 48.6%; with two layers of spikes, it's an almost guaranteed 2HKO, and with SR and one layer of Spikes, it's guaranteed. This calc also applies for Specs Ulgamoth.
252 SpDef Calm T-Wave Chansey can beat Ulgamoth, but entry hazard (Toxic Spikes in particular) support means she can only switch out so many times, allowing teammates to deal with her before Ulgamoth comes in. Also, running such a set makes her even more vulnerable to physical attacks, notably Pursuit. Chansey can be taken care of, and once she is, Ulgamoth is a fearsome sweeper.
And speaking, I haven't come across one trainer that decided to wall my Ulga with a Chansey. Let alone a Blissey and that only happened once or twice.
@Scampy
Yes Ttar can grab by it's wing and destroy, but you got to understand that every Pokemon has it's falsies.
@Scampy
yes, yes indeed. But how would you be able to stand that with you having to get in Drought-Ninetails (if you using that set)? even if you use the other one, It's meant to lead (or that's just me but it usually gets the job done.) and if you do use the Drought switch set you'd need to switch again to counter and then switch set up again... :\
Yes Ttar can grab by it's wing and destroy, but you got to understand that every Pokemon has it's falsies.
Technically, it's a 72% chance for a 2HKO; you need both Fire Blasts to hit.
[SET]
name: Bulky BD Sweeper
move 1: Butterfly Dance
move 2: Fire Blast / Fire Dance
move 3: Bug Buzz
move 4: Hidden Power Ground / Hidden Power Rock
item: Leftovers
ability: Flame Body
nature: Timid/Modest
evs: 4 SpA or Spe/252 HP/252 Def
I've been singing this set's praises on the forums for some time, and I find it to be much more effective than the standard sweeper spread. It catches opponents off guard as well. With this amount of bulk you are almost guaranteed 2 BDs (there have been a number of occasions where I've gotten off 3 or 4) after which the lack of investment in its offenses is the least of your worries. The HP EVs mean that after a BD or two even the mightiest of special sweepers are even more powerless against you than they already were, and combined with the defense EVs it becomes laughably easy to set up multiple BDs. At that point I almost always sweep half my opponent's team at the very least, which is quite the feat for one pokemon that requires nothing more than rapid-spin support (no need for screens, speed/SpA passing, trick room, etc.)
I always run HP Rock over Ground because other Fire types are pretty much all set-up fodder, and Flying types are far more threatening than Heatran who still falls to HP Rock after a few BDs. It also hurts most dragons pretty nastily. Ground does hit Rock types super effective but they are probably the only pokemon I would never keep Ulgamoth in on. I also prefer Fire Dance to Fire Blast although on this set the extra immediate power may be better; still Fire Dance has a 50% chance to just boost your SpA even further, and when you're hitting 100% of the time I think thats a brilliant trade-off, especially under the rare circumstance that you can only get off 1 BD or something, the extra boost helps tremendously.
Why does no one ever think about Flamethrower over Fire Blast or Fire Dance I mean yeah you can get a Sp. Atk boost over Fire Dance but still even with only one BD it can still get the job done and it never need a 50% chance of raising Sp. Atk. and if I'm not mistaking that Fire Blast doesn't get an accuracy boost during Sunny Day? So there you go. I mean Fire Dance is good but only a 50% chance for a boost... :S that's 50/100 where is does that other half go?
P.S. I'm not saying Fire Blast or Fire Dance is bad. I'm just saying, feel free to disgust/argue, but I think Flamethrower can give you and little less power than Fire Blast, but better accuracy, and is more powerful then Flame Dance, and won't need an extra boost (and you'd get more damage from a Flamethrower than a Flame Dance, because you need a other move to come after Flame Dance to even use that boost :S)
P.S. I'm not saying Fire Blast or Fire Dance is bad. I'm just saying, feel free to disgust/argue, but I think Flamethrower can give you and little less power than Fire Blast, but better accuracy, and is more powerful then Flame Dance, and won't need an extra boost (and you'd get more damage from a Flamethrower than a Flame Dance, because you need a other move to come after Flame Dance to even use that boost :S)
As far as I know Flamethrower doesn't give any notable OHKOs or 2HKOs over Flame Dance while Fire Blast does. (I may be wrong about this, feel free to correct me with some calcs if anyone has them.) Factor in that chance of a Sp.A boost and Flame Dance looks much more appealing. The fact that Bug Buzz is almost as powerful might contribute to this. (Keep in mind not everyone is running Ulgamoth on sun teams.)
Fire Dance has 80 power to Flamethrower's 95. Not a huge difference. Unless Flamethrower gets some significant KOs, Fire Dance will usually be better. And why do you need another move after Fire Dance? Just keep using it, or one of your coverage moves.
Fire Blast vs. Fire Dance is more complicated, but I'd pretty much always run one of those over Flamethrower.
For me, the problem with this guy isn't Stealth Rock, it can be easily span away with and others this gen. The problem for me is it's movepool. Bug and Fire stab is great but along with Butterfly Dance you can only run one coverage move. You need to hit Heatran, Salamence, Gyarados and many other commonly used pokemon. It's really hard to choose the right Hidden Power and then it is easily killed by the pokemon that resists it's HP. This thing does have some issues but I doubt it will he relegated to UU due to it having so much power and speed with it's signature move.
Even Meruba (or whatever its pre evo is called) is gonna do some weird and wonderful things in UU. Ulgamoth is probably the only special sweeper in OU that Blissey will struggle a bit to wall. Ulgamoth, its Ubers for u.
Even Meruba (or whatever its pre evo is called) is gonna do some weird and wonderful things in UU. Ulgamoth is probably the only special sweeper in OU that Blissey will struggle a bit to wall. Ulgamoth, its Ubers for u. Doryuuzu support can be used to!!!
Lol at Ulgamoth going to Ubers.
1. Stealth Rock weak
2. Bad Defensive Typing
3. Bad coverage
It's not a bad mon by any means,but due to its coverage,like previously said,it'll get walled by a mon(which will most likely be very common) and get killed.
Let's say you run:
Bug Buzz
Fire Dance
BD
HP Ground(For Heatran,Shandera,etc.)
Now you get walled and killed by Mence,Gya,and Landlos.
So now you run HP Electric to hit Gyarados.
Zapdos will just laugh at you now.
You COULD run HP Dragon,but that doesn't really help much except helping you get completely walled by Heatran.
Ulgamoth's problem is his coverage and common weaknesses.
He's not going to Ubers anytime soon.
It does pretty good in OU with some support. Otherwise,Stealth Rock just takes a dump all over him D:
have you been on PO?
And that's why you don't just throw it into the pit right away, but offer it the needed support to do what it needs to do. This thing is meant to sweep late-game, not scout or revenge-kill.
seriously?! this thing is a pain in the butt once he gets even one butterfly dance. SR helps alot, but not enough to stop it.
He's going to be walled by something either way. He usually runs HP ground for heatran because bug buzz can still hit mence/chomp for some damage whereas flame dance/bug buzz/hp ice don't touch heatran.
It seems odd, but IMO, Psychic is the best choice for a coverage move.
For one thing, Heatran is the only pokemon that resists Bug, Fire, and Psychic. Eliminate it, and you're good-to-go.
Secondly, although Psychic has poor super-effective coverage, it has more power than any Hidden power, making it more useful against neutral opponents.
Two insignificant bonuses are:
1) Doesn't lower any IVs
2) A pitiful 10% chance to lower opponent's Sp Def
For one thing, Heatran is the only pokemon that resists Bug, Fire, and Psychic. Eliminate it, and you're good-to-go.
Secondly, although Psychic has poor super-effective coverage, it has more power than any Hidden power, making it more useful against neutral opponents.
Two insignificant bonuses are:
1) Doesn't lower any IVs
2) A pitiful 10% chance to lower opponent's Sp Def
Shell Break Cloyster can wreck Ulgamoth with Rock Blast, especially with the Accuracy boost. It outspeeds after 1 Butterfly Dance too, and seeing how Cloyster can take hits with it's Physical Defence, it may be the main user of Shell Break.
Ulgamoth also has minor coverage issues with Hidden Power - You either need to hit Heatran or Gyara/Mence. Rotom-W also gives it a few issues. It can T-Wave, use STAB Hydro Pump and it has enough Special Defence to take +1 Bug Buzz.
Ulgamoth also has minor coverage issues with Hidden Power - You either need to hit Heatran or Gyara/Mence. Rotom-W also gives it a few issues. It can T-Wave, use STAB Hydro Pump and it has enough Special Defence to take +1 Bug Buzz.