What aren't we writing about? (Pokemon unfit for OU Analyses)

[Erebyssial]

Why no Walrein? I guess it's not that easy to fit in OU hail teams but it has that niche and is certainly viable.

Nidoqueen was mentioned earlier in the thread, was there a decision? She's pretty legit in OU, great Toxic Spiker with the option to SR, typing unlike anything else and can handle some big physical threats. I'd say it definitely deserves an analysis.

 

[SJCrew]

What's Donphan doing on the list? He's pretty awesome on basically anything that requires SR and Rapid Spin on the same Pokemon (Sun). Plus, he's not 4x weak to anything, has good STAB, Ice Shard, and is generally less exploitable than Forretress. He even has an OU set in Gen 4, where he wasn't even half as useful. He should be taken from the list.

Not that I'm expecting anything from this, but I say Nidoqueen deserves an OU analysis. She too got Sheer Force as a Dream World ability, and with basically the same movepool as Nidoking, can also perform as a LO sweeper. Her attacking stats may be lower than Nidoking's but she is bulkier, and the difference is pretty moot due to the sheer force (no pun intended) of the damage being dished out.

Less Speed, less power, no reason to use her offensively over Nidoking. Her best use is as a supporter with entry hazards.

 

[Marzbar]

I have a couple of queries:

Ambipom: is a Silk Scarfed, Technician Ambipom with Fake Out, Double Hit/Return, U-Turn and Taunt/Low Kick worthy of OU usage? I find it is.

Umbreon: I realise it can't pass Mean Look anymore, but it can still be a Special Wall that can be used for Wish Passing or Heal Bell or a status inducer.

Weezing: heaps of people have already questioned this guy, I'm just joining the protests. It can stop Scizor sweeps, wall Breloom, stops pretty much every Fighting type, can switch into EQ, and cripple many pokemon with Will-O-Wisp.

Thanks

 

[AlphaSpade]

Any reason Victreebel is still on there? It's not completely outclassed by Venusaur because it has access to Weather Ball and Sucker Punch, not to mention a higher ATK stat and stronger Grass STAB (I'm aware Venusaur can still run Chlorophyll + Power Whip on PO, but running that makes you look like a jerk)

 

[ElCee]

I have a couple of queries:

Ambipom: is a Silk Scarfed, Technician Ambipom with Fake Out, Double Hit/Return, U-Turn and Taunt/Low Kick worthy of OU usage? I find it is.

Umbreon: I realise it can't pass Mean Look anymore, but it can still be a Special Wall that can be used for Wish Passing or Heal Bell or a status inducer.

Weezing: heaps of people have already questioned this guy, I'm just joining the protests. It can stop Scizor sweeps, wall Breloom, stops pretty much every Fighting type, can switch into EQ, and cripple many pokemon with Will-O-Wisp.

Thanks

The Special Wall with Wish or Heal Bell thing is done a billion times better by Chansey/Blissey,especially with the new way that Wish works. Plus at least they have Seismic Toss to kinda get past their crappy offenses. Umbreon really has nothing like that. Is there anything Umbreon really does better?

As for Weezing, besides being really easily worn down and scared off by almost any neutral special attack ,this post (which funnily enough also refers to another post) does a good job explaining how Weezing doesn't really answer Fighting-types in Gen V. Basically, Weezing proponents keep SAYING it counters Fighters, but when someone explains how it doesn't, another person comes in, ignores that evidence, and repeats that Weezing counters Fighters.

 

[AasTmO]

-snip- Weezing doesn't really answer Fighting-types in Gen V -snip-

But, golbat does! And it does much more, too! And I haven't heard a thing on him yet.. Also, look on last page for more argument ;)

 

[ParaChomp]

Why is Entei up there? It's now a bulky sweeper that has access to many tricks thanks to the latest event. Extremespeed, Flare Blitz, Howl, Level Ground, Stone Edge, Nitro Charge. It has great use.

 

[AasTmO]

No to Entei. There are a couple major reasons:

1: Spikes are much, much more common, and saying "stealth rock is less common" is iffy in general, because if the opponent gets SR and 1 layer of Spikes, Entei can only switch in twice total.

2: Sun sucks ass right now. Basically every single weather changer beats Sun like a drum- Hippowdon has enough bulk to take Entei's attacks, Tyranitar just laughs it off, and Politoed both resists and rain-weakens the Flare Blitz.

3: Calm Mind is just... not interesting. 90 Special Attack isn't winning it any awards, and with no reliable recovery, it's not going to last long enough to accrue enough boosts to actually deal interesting damage.

4: The fact that Heatran is basically the best switchin to it possible doesn't really help it, because it can't really leverage Will-O-Wisp that way.

5: Grounded and SR weak makes Eruption trash. Nitro Charge is "ok", but its physical movepool isn't all that stellar, and Nitro Charge itself is weak. Level Ground is doubly weak- 60 base power does not a coverage move make.

6: Mixed Scarf? Really? Its offenses are mediocre enough as-is, and now you want to split EVs? Not buyin it.

Also, a couple other things.

Flare Blitz Entei is locked Adamant, which means it really can't take advantage of its speed that well. That makes the mixed Scarf set even worse, because using Flare Blitz means weakening all of its special attacks. On top of that, it's basically outclassed entirely by Arcanine. It has slightly less bulk, but it has "more speed" due to not being locked into Adamant, more Special Attack, two actually useful abilities (intimidate and flash fire, fuck yeah), the potential for reliable healing in the form of Morning Sun, and most importantly, CLOSE COMBAT HOLY SHIT letting it get past Heatran and Tyranitar reliably.

This is why.

 

[Kyuzeth]

The Japanese names need to me romanized, as almost all of them are phonetic, thus less correct than romanized names. Also, Gigaiath's English name is Gigalith.

 

[alphatron]

Actually a bit surprised to see Whishcash on that list. Hydration dragon dance allows it to set up pretty easily in the rain. No, it's bulk isn't great, but when EV'd defensively, it should have no problem setting up and eventually tossing out easy sweeps. Unfortunately, any grass type faster than him that walls his STAB (Breloom, Virizion) will give him trouble. The same applies to Manaphy though.

 

[Marzbar]

The Special Wall with Wish or Heal Bell thing is done a billion times better by Chansey/Blissey,especially with the new way that Wish works. Plus at least they have Seismic Toss to kinda get past their crappy offenses. Umbreon really has nothing like that. Is there anything Umbreon really does better?

A Curse and Payback set?

 

[ElCee]

A Curse and Payback set?

That was already rejected here by Quality Control.

 

[(makeup)]

Actually a bit surprised to see Whishcash on that list. Hydration dragon dance allows it to set up pretty easily in the rain. No, it's bulk isn't great, but when EV'd defensively, it should have no problem setting up and eventually tossing out easy sweeps. Unfortunately, any grass type faster than him that walls his STAB (Breloom, Virizion) will give him trouble. The same applies to Manaphy though.

Whiscash is slow, weak, and Grass-type attacks rape it.

 

[AasTmO]

Whiscash is slow, weak, and Grass-type attacks rape it.

Added to that: even with a DD under the belt, you're not getting much attack power (420 attack tops), with typing that is easily resisted. Also, it has no way of dealing with any grass type defensively, allowing all of them to set up on it(Ohey Nattorei!), many other pokes (Zapdos, Skarm e.a) wall it to heck.. Not gonna cut it.

 

[Husky]

Ok, I have a little question about a poke:
In this post, Uxie is not mentioned as OU unworthy, but in the official reservation thread it is. So what's its real status? In case it's allowed to get an OU analysis, I'd like to take over it. Thanks-

 

[jrp]

Ambipom: is a Silk Scarfed, Technician Ambipom with Fake Out, Double Hit/Return, U-Turn and Taunt/Low Kick worthy of OU usage? I find it is.

Silk scarf is pretty useless though.
Trickbander ambi is great though, why not use him on a set? (switcharoo, same thing)

U turn, return, low kick, pursuit. Can OHKO a ton of stuff, just put switcharoo over one. Also, switchscarf can shut down nattorei who commonly switches in to ambi for some reason. Send in zone and nat is dead.

Can shut down sub cm jirachi too, who also likes to switch in.

IT's really successful from my experiences.

 

[Thunderbloke]

On behalf of both Donphan and to an extent Golem (a long shot, though he is just a crappier Donphan T.T) Sturdy has given both quite a power up in the anti-leads department. With Custap Berry, Donphan can sneak in some extra damage with earthquake, or throw out that last rapid spin or stealth rock before he goes out. I'll try to provide some logs of these shenanigans. Not to mention any other shenanigans he can pull of thanks to sturdy such as Endeavor retorts and red card abuse.

 

[Galladiator]

Still don't see why Luxray is listed. IMO: Already amazing base 120 Attack + Adamant nature + Guts + Flame Orb + either Facade or Wild Bolt = OU worthy.

 

[ParaChomp]

Trickbander ambi is great though, why not use him on a set? (switcharoo, same thing)

U turn, return, low kick, pursuit. Can OHKO a ton of stuff, just put switcharoo over one. Also, switchscarf can shut down nattorei who commonly switches in to ambi for some reason. Send in zone and nat is dead.

Ambipom is outclassed by many Trick and Switcheroo users. Kojondo also outclasses it greatly in terms of U-Turn and Fake Out.

On behalf of both Donphan and to an extent Golem (a long shot, though he is just a crappier Donphan T.T) Sturdy has given both quite a power up in the anti-leads department. With Custap Berry, Donphan can sneak in some extra damage with earthquake, or throw out that last rapid spin or stealth rock before he goes out. I'll try to provide some logs of these shenanigans. Not to mention any other shenanigans he can pull of thanks to sturdy such as Endeavour retorts and red card abuse.

Endeavour is tricky to pull off. Golem's typing is a burden and has nothing to weaken it. Donphan is outclassed by many as a Rapid Spin user in terms of utility.

Still don't see why Luxray is listed. IMO: Already amazing base 120 Attack + Adamant nature + Guts + Flame Orb + either Facade or Wild Bolt = OU worthy.

So many Pokemon do it better though. Not only that, there are some new blistering fast ground types with STAB Earthquake that are going to take it out in the blink of an eye.

Don't bother trying to prove anything unless you know that there are no loopholes. Aside from that, it's almost impossible to take a Pokemon down from the list so you have to wait for the UU analysis.

 

[Chillarmy]

Donphan is outclassed by many as a Rapid Spin user in terms of utility.

Tentacruel and Forretress get dicked by Dragonite and Dory, Donphan doesn't; Donphan also works as a great defensive pivot for Drought teams due to one of its main weaknesses being neutralized, effectiveness against sandstorm teams, access to both Stealth Rock and Rapid Spin, and ability to keep the offensive momentum going to some extent.

On a related note, Gligar was addressed, but the only response to it deserving an analysis just bashed it for the lack of power. Eh, I've been using evo stone Gligar (252/240/16 Impish running SR|Roost|Taunt|U-turn) for a while and have to say that it definitely has perks over Gliscor. First off, one of the biggest advantages of running Gligar is a slower U-turn, which not only takes advantage of its massive bulk, but also makes Gligar a great defensive pivot for offensive teams that need a free switch in every now and then. Secondly, while a base 75 attack is by no means 'strong', it's more than enough for Gligar to beat random Steels that try to set up on it; speaking of setting up on Gligar, 206 Speed is more than enough to Taunt stuff like Skarmory and Natti before they can get a layer of spikes up. Finally, 334/508/250 defenses allow Gligar to take risks against stuff like Landlos, Burungeru, Dragonite, Latias, etc and U-turn / Toxic while Gliscor would have to worry about being OHKOed or 2HKOed by the appropriate attack (by extent, making Gligar a much better Baton Passer as well). IMO at least, Gligar's positives outweigh its negatives by a lot.

 

[Mr.Senior]

dageki i feel is pretty good. he's the only pokemon with sturdy + revearsal. he can hold a salac berry and eventually throw out full powered revearsals from 403 speed and 383 attack. with close combat, revearsal, stone edge, filler;(taunt, bulk up, counter) he can easily get down to 1 hp and start wrecking. all 3 of those are viable fillers but bulk up could make it harder to get to 1 hp. 125/85 are the same physical attacking stats as heracross and while no 2nd 120 stab and no reliable dark move (while youre fast) might hinder it, it still hits just as hard and can be really fun and effective.

Edit: if nothing else, something totally unique should at least be tested in OU before decided it is unfit for OU.

 

[jrp]

I'm going to have to vouch for Regice to get a set. With Ice Body, Regice becomes an extremely potent hail staller, even better at the job than Walrein, because of superior bulk and special attack. I've been using it with a huge amount of success

 

[Rolf]

I think Clefable deserves an OU set if not just for a set of Assist Power/Cosmic Power/Charge Beam/Softboiled with a defensive EV spread. She is easily able to put up a few Cosmic Power boosts, then take the time to Charge Beam a SpA boost or two. Once you get to +4/+4/+2 there is really nothing that can stop the rampage bar Dark types, which need to be beaten before Clefable takes the time to set up.

For reference, Assist Power is a 20 Base Power Psychic move with 32 PP. For every boost on the attacking Pokemon, it gains another 20 Base Power with no cap. A Clefable maxed in this way can get to 380 Base Power, enough to KO even those that resist it quite easily.

Other than that, Clefable has a myriad of options in Wish, Magic Guard, Calm Mind, Aromatherapy, Knock Off, Dual Screens, Stealth Rock, Thunder Wave, Trick, Encore, and Belly Drum. As far as sets, she can be Wish support - passing Wishes of 179, she can run a Magic Guard Life Orb set, offensive/defensive Calm Mind, Stealth Rock support... the list can run on. I've found that all of these sets can do well in standard OU at the moment, but I've had the most success with the aforementioned Assist Power one.

Overall though I believe Clefable deserves an OU analysis.

 

[PooF]

Tentacruel and Forretress get dicked by Dragonite and Dory, Donphan doesn't; Donphan also works as a great defensive pivot for Drought teams due to one of its main weaknesses being neutralized, effectiveness against sandstorm teams, access to both Stealth Rock and Rapid Spin, and ability to keep the offensive momentum going to some extent.

I second this, Donphan is easily the best rapid spinner for drought teams (and those really need one). In addition to spinning and setting up SR it is excellent tyranitar switch-in (again very important for drought teams). He definetly has a niche and a pretty big one at that.

 

[Thunderbloke]

Yay go Donphan support!

dageki i feel is pretty good. he's the only pokemon with sturdy + revearsal. he can hold a salac berry and eventually throw out full powered revearsals from 403 speed and 383 attack. with close combat, revearsal, stone edge, filler;(taunt, bulk up, counter) he can easily get down to 1 hp and start wrecking. all 3 of those are viable fillers but bulk up could make it harder to get to 1 hp. 125/85 are the same physical attacking stats as heracross and while no 2nd 120 stab and no reliable dark move (while youre fast) might hinder it, it still hits just as hard and can be really fun and effective.

Anywho as much fun as Daigeki is to use (I personally like him with Red Card and Counter :D) he is simply too risky to use in the OU enviornment. Plus all the much faster Fight type guys he has to compete with.

I think Clefable deserves an OU set if not just for a set of Assist Power/Cosmic Power/Charge Beam/Softboiled with a defensive EV spread. She is easily able to put up a few Cosmic Power boosts, then take the time to Charge Beam a SpA boost or two. Once you get to +4/+4/+2 there is really nothing that can stop the rampage bar Dark types, which need to be beaten before Clefable takes the time to set up.

As was said before Clefable, simply has too many pokemon to contend with when it comes to sets, with the majority being that they are all better than Clefable at their jobs. Woobat can achieve more stat boosts in 2 turns over Clefables 6 for assist power use.

On another note, I think Furiijio deserves some notice. Though it is slower and doesnt hit as hard as Starmie (and lacks Starmies amazing coverage). It's still fast enough to revenge kill with its Stab ice, sports Levitation, can switch-in on most special attackers even sum fire ones and rapid spin when the opportunity presents itself.