Hydreigon

UberOwn said:
What this guy has over Latios : STAB dark pulse and fire type attacks to counter steel types
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Focus Blast to deal with T-Tar as well. It can also run Choice sets more freely because it doesn't fear Pursuit. Speed alone makes Latios better though, the Fight resist is a bonus.
 
Scarfwynaut said:
Modest specs? Usually the speed from timid, is better, can you list any notable pokemon you KO with a simple modest 1.1 times boost?
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Everyone wants to argue this for some reason (let's go Latiax/folg!). Timid is pretty much useless on Saz given the fast times in OU. Timid Saz just doesn't outspeed anything worthwhile that Modest doesn't outside of maybe... Haxorus :P. Unless you need him for that rare occurrence and to speed tie with other retarded people running Timid Saz, extra power with Modest is more beneficial. Thank god the analysis got it right.

edit: idk Haxorus might usually be Adamant, so that's even more reason not to have max speed
 
I never use the choice scarf sets. I find Flygon or Garchomp to be better at that role. However, the life orb set can take out a lot of shit. Just be careful of the faster things, because it usually kills it. I use this set:

move 1: Draco Meteor
move 2: Surf
move 3: Fire Blast
move 4: Dark Pulse
item: Life Orb
nature: Timid
evs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

Sometimes I switch up Life Orb with Expert Belt so I can bluff a choice item and score some extra kills. I've had success with this set in the battle subway, but haven't tried it enough on PO.
 
What Haxorous uses is irrelivant here, if it needs adamant to KO something then thats why it uses it.

On the other hand if this "extra power" doesn't actually give you any useful KOs, then why use it? And even if you do get a KO on some pokemon, if the rest of your team deals with the thing fine, then you still don't use it. Why? Becuase that seemingly tiny speed drop is HUGE, it drops you down to the speed tier of 85! Which is a huge drop in speed, you have droped down 2 magor speed tiers, 95 and 90, and everything inbetween, for what? As I see nothing.
 
Scarfwynaut said:
What Haxorous uses is irrelivant here, if it needs adamant to KO something then thats why it uses it.

On the other hand if this "extra power" doesn't actually give you any useful KOs, then why use it? And even if you do get a KO on some pokemon, if the rest of your team deals with the thing fine, then you still don't use it. Why? Becuase that seemingly tiny speed drop is HUGE, it drops you down to the speed tier of 85! Which is a huge drop in speed, you have droped down 2 magor speed tiers, 95 and 90, and everything inbetween, for what? As I see nothing.
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Lol buddy. It almost seems like you ignored the post. Those speed tiers do not count for shit and that is why he is free to run Modest. You're just advocating speed for the sake of speed. Look up the analysis because I just don't care at this point...
 
Scarfwynaut said:
What Haxorous uses is irrelivant here, if it needs adamant to KO something then thats why it uses it.

On the other hand if this "extra power" doesn't actually give you any useful KOs, then why use it? And even if you do get a KO on some pokemon, if the rest of your team deals with the thing fine, then you still don't use it. Why? Becuase that seemingly tiny speed drop is HUGE, it drops you down to the speed tier of 85! Which is a huge drop in speed, you have droped down 2 magor speed tiers, 95 and 90, and everything inbetween, for what? As I see nothing.
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Someone in this thread looked at what Pokemon you lose by running Modest over Timid, and most of them weren't worth running Timid, and infact, Hydreigon can run just enough Speed for Neutrel natured base 90s and put the rest into HP for some added bulk.
 
Timid is a waste becasue anything you have to worry outspeeding you WILL unless your scarfed. Modest lets predictability can land you huge hits crippling a team.
 
I went for a Modest Deino and also went back and caught a Naughty one too where i will lead with Crunch, Dragon Tail, Work Up, and Draco Meteor/Flame Thrower/Blast...Idea being i dont let anyone set up and if they resist Dark or Flame/DM then i tail brush them out until i get an opportunity to use Work Up. Item, either Left Overs...or something..

Not used either of them competatively yet though still levelling them up first..
 
Scarfwynaut said:
What Haxorous uses is irrelivant here, if it needs adamant to KO something then thats why it uses it.

On the other hand if this "extra power" doesn't actually give you any useful KOs, then why use it? And even if you do get a KO on some pokemon, if the rest of your team deals with the thing fine, then you still don't use it. Why? Becuase that seemingly tiny speed drop is HUGE, it drops you down to the speed tier of 85! Which is a huge drop in speed, you have droped down 2 magor speed tiers, 95 and 90, and everything inbetween, for what? As I see nothing.
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Let's quote this yet again...
IcyMan28 said:
This is my reasoning as well, since I run Modest with some HP to capitalize on its decent bulk.

Lucario: Does not really run +Spe ever anymore since all of its sets run priority or Agility. And since Gliscor are slow nowadays, there is even less reason to worry about it - Modest with enough for 280 is all Hydreigon needs.

Haxorus: Not seen enough to merit consideration, IMO, but I guess you could consider it. Point for Timid.

Roserade: Can't really do anything to Hydreigon regardless.

Rotom: Wash form is either a slow bulkier variant or runs Scarf, so Modest is better.

Darmanitan: Point for Timid, though it likes Scarf as well.

Krookodile: Doesn't have the coverage options to deal with Hydreigon and runs Scarf anyway.

Excadrill: Unseen outside of sand.

Kingdra: Anyone using Kindgra will have rain up, so it is a bit of a moot point.

Heracross: I can't remember the last time I saw one of these, and even then the only sets that run Jolly are running Scarf. Then Gliscor is the best check for it in the game so it is easy to handle.

64 HP / 252 SpA / 192 Spe is the way to go. Maximum power, all the speed you need, and the HP let's it take things like Conkeldurrs +1 Mach Punch.
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Everything you get outsped by when using Modest can do little to Hydreigon, with the exception of Haxorus who doesn't show up often enough to consider Timid.
 
So, what would be some awesome teammates for Hydreigon? I've been thinking on it, but I just can't seem to find excellent partners. I know having a way to deal with Fighting-types is good, but with what? It'd need to be able to KO Breloom and Conkeldurr safely at the absolute least. Bonus points if it can deal with Infernape as well.
 
It may be difficult to deal with all three of those at once, since Infernape can use special attacks as well. Gliscor is the best check to Breloom around since Toxic Orb will help prevent Spore from working, and it could care less about Conkeldurr. It shares an Ice weakness, though.

Reuniclus or Latias can deal with them as well, the latter having an easier time with Breloom and Infernape while the former deals with Conkeldurr and Breloom better. They share a bug weakness or a dragon weakness.

Finally, you could use a ghost type. Gengar keeps the offensive pace up and can revenge the three of them (SubDisable or SubSplit Gengar can get around Blissey, too). Jellicent helps...but loses to NP Grass Knot or Breloom's grass STAB.

Gengar and Latias can also sweep a weakened team pretty easily, and Hydreigon doesn't have any issues creating those openings with its powerful Draco Meteor.
 
252SpA Timid Hydreigon with LO

Draco Meteor vs Adamant 252HP/136SDef Conkeldurr does 82.6% ~ 97.3%
FireBlast vs Adamant 0HP/0SDef Breloom does 190.8% ~ 225.2%
Draco Meteor vs Infernape 0HP/0SDef Infernape does 129.9% ~ 153.4%

From my calculation, seems that Hydreigon can get rid of Fighting-types quite easily, but always be wary of Mach Punch from them
 
UberOwn said:
252SpA Timid Hydreigon with LO

Draco Meteor vs Adamant 252HP/136SDef Conkeldurr does 82.6% ~ 97.3%
FireBlast vs Adamant 0HP/0SDef Breloom does 190.8% ~ 225.2%
Draco Meteor vs Infernape 0HP/0SDef Infernape does 129.9% ~ 153.4%

From my calculation, seems that Hydreigon can get rid of Fighting-types quite easily, but always be wary of Mach Punch from them
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Since when do you outspeed Infernape and survive its Close Combat?
 
So as soon as I saw Hydreigon I knew that I wanted to use it on my team. I started out trying a LO MixHydra, but I found that it lacked the power I needed, and its defenses are already not great so having a -Def/-SpDef nature hurt it a little at critical moments.

The real selling point of this guy is STAB Draco Meteor from a 383 SpAtk stat, so I switched to Lee's Life Orb, and it's really been working well. The more powerful Draco Meteor nets me a lot of OHKOs I wouldn't have gotten before, and Taunt has proved itself in a number of situations.

But I'm not sold on U-turn. Taunt shuts down Blissey in the most important way, preventing her from healing: all U-turn does is gets a light hit in on her, and while it's a very good move in general and the scouting it can provide is nice, is it worth it to use the move slot on a low-damage move that drains 10% of your health and is mostly just meant for Blissey? Wouldn't that slot be better spent on Dark Pulse, Surf, or Focus Blast to increase coverage?

My team has a couple of other ways to deal with Blissey (CB Scizor, SubDisable Gengar) if necessary, so it seems like I should be fine just switching out if necessary, but for people who've been using the set longer than I have, what do you think about U-turn? Does it really pull its weight?
 
Flygon is hugely outclassed by all the Dragons this gen, and Scizor alone won't survive Hydreigon's Flamethrower/Fire Blast.
Though Blissey has a chance to eat and consume all attacks, it can pass a wish before it has to switch.
I was thinking that he could run a SubSalac set but since he has less bulk then Garchomp it would be harder to predict a attack..
 
Silly said:
Flygon is hugely outclassed by all the Dragons this gen, and Scizor alone won't survive Hydreigon's Flamethrower/Fire Blast.
Though Blissey has a chance to eat and consume all attacks, it can pass a wish before it has to switch.
I was thinking that he could run a SubSalac set but since he has less bulk then Garchomp it would be harder to predict a attack..
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If Hydreigon is running Taunt, Blissey isn't going to be passing any Wishes. That's another thing he has over the other dragons: Taunt.
 
This is an absolutely fantastic set that I have used to great joy:

Hydreigon @ Choice Scarf
Nature: Modest
EVs: 4 HP, 252 SpA, 252 Spe
- Draco Meteor
- Fire Blast
- Surf
- Dark Pulse

The premise of this set is switch in and DM something that doesn't resist it, usually KOing with some previous damage. This is because with Modest Nature and 252 EVs, Hydreigon hits a fantastic 380+ Special Attack. Combined with a Choice Scarf, he hits fast and hard. Fire Blast is useful if you suspect a Ferrothorn switch, Surf provides unresisted coverage, and Dark Pulse is a useful STAB.
tl;dr: Switch in, Draco Meteor, switch out. rinse, repeat.
Note that this strategy requires rocks support and defensive pivots, as well as a back up attacker. Status, especially Toxic, provides great synergy.
 
TorchicBlaziken said:
Latios gets Heal Block, which works just as well against Blissey and blocks her
Leftovers. But Latios can't find a moveslot for it.
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Heal block does not prevent lefties recovery as well, pretty sure is only recovery moves. The thing is you don't keep a latios on a blissey unless you want to trick her a choice item, but be prepared for the possible status. You could use taunt Hydreigon and U-turn pivot though, as long as you don't switch in blissey obviously.
On topic, after reading the thread i'm conviced that i've been using Hydreigon wrongly, is more suited to open holes on opponent teams than choice-scarf locked revenging stuff, you leave that to latios or garchomp. But specs set works wonder on wifi.
 
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