Hydreigon

[IcyMan28]

Yea. hydreigon > latios

i have a question.
if they were made so that they have the same speed, who would have more bulk and power?

Depends on what speed you want to hit. Assuming Hydreigon's max speed of 324, Latios would be running a spread of Timid 100 HP / 252 SpA / 156 Speed. The following would be the results:

Latios: 326 / 194 / 196 / 359 / 256 / 324
Hydreigon: 326 / 221 / 216 / 349 / 216 / 324

Latios boasts higher SpA and SpD while Hydreigon has greater physical bulk (and attack, but that is somewhat irrelevant).

Between neutral Hydreigon's max speed of 295 and 319, Latios is significantly stronger (it can run Modest and still be faster), but is less bulky because the EVs are poured exclusively into SpA and Spe.

At 295 Spe and lower, Hydreigon is again marginally weaker but has higher physical defense.

Honestly, though, Latios' ability to outspeed the 100-110 group is the reason to use it in the first place. Manipulating its nature/EVs to mirror Hydreigon is misleading, as the marginally higher SpA is offset by Hydreigon's access to Fire Blast, Focus Blast, and Dark Pulse.

 

[Jaetheho]

i just wanted to know what the stats would look like. thank you :)
hydreigon is surprisngly bulky. lived a +1 mach punch from a conkeldurr. lol

 

[blarajan]

I generally just assume Hydreigon is Expert Belt, now. Is it just me, or is the allure of Expert Belt just terribly dry? Everyone uses it apparently :3.

Also, 700th post.

 

[Pocket]

A 20% boost without LO recoil or locked moves? Yes, plz. All you really need is a versatile offense that hits many things super-effective, which Hydreigon possesses.

Congrats on your 0.7K, blarajan :]

 

[IcyMan28]

Yeah, the good thing about Expert Belt is that even if you don't nail the surprise, you are still getting the boost as long as you have the type coverage to back it up, and Hydreigon certainly does.

I do love the sheer power of Specs though.

 

[GtM]

I'm surprised that Hydreigon is never used with a Dragon Gem. It fires off a Fire Blast and kills Ferrothorn, only for Dragonite to come in. Then WHAM, Choice Specs Draco Meteor breaks through Multiscale whilst the regular Expert Belt one fails to do so half the time. It also powers up Dragon Pulse to the same level as Draco Meteor, letting you wallop something like Rotom-W with a Dragon attack whilst still being a threat afterwards.

It's a more specific lure but I think it has some use.

 

[IcyMan28]

Interesting idea, but Max SpA Timid Hydreigon only has a 20% chance to OHKO 216 HP Dragonite through MultiScale with Dragon Gem Draco Meteor. It can do it with rocks, but at that point so can Expert Belt Hydreigon. Definitely has more use against less bulky Dragonite, though.

 

[UncleFinger]

Don't most Hydreigon run Modest though? For same reason Hax runs Adamant?

 

[IcyMan28]

SpecsHydreigon runs Modest (or at least it used to, I'm not sure now) because Haxorus, Darmanitan, etc were uncommon, but now Timid may be the better choice because those are important targets to hit. Modest Hydreigon will KO through multiscale with the dragon gem, but there is a price.

 

[Molk]

SpecsHydreigon runs Modest (or at least it used to, I'm not sure now) because Haxorus, Darmanitan, etc were uncommon, but now Timid may be the better choice because those are important targets to hit. Modest Hydreigon will KO through multiscale with the dragon gem, but there is a price.

I dont really think the drop in power is worth running timid because logically, you would be running Max speed, which makes conkeldurr a big threat to it. (64 hp allows you to survive a mach punch)

 

[TROP]

I dont really think the drop in power is worth running timid because logically, you would be running Max speed, which makes conkeldurr a big threat to it. (64 hp allows you to survive a mach punch)

Unboosted or boosted?.
Because unboosted it can just hope for a 2HKO from Mach Punch and at +1 there is a decent change of Hydreigon surviving the hit after Stealth Rock uninvested.

 

[Molk]

Unboosted or boosted?.
Because unboosted it can just hope for a 2HKO from Mach Punch and at +1 there is a decent change of Hydreigon surviving the hit after Stealth Rock uninvested.

boosted, i prefer 64 hp evs so i survive all the time.

 

[TROP]

boosted, i prefer 64 hp evs so i survive all the time.

Only problem with that is that you miss the sweet revenge on Haxorus.

 

[Molk]

Only problem with that is that you miss the sweet revenge on Haxorus.

from what ive seen all hax are scarfed these days, or have a dd up.

 

[IcyMan28]

I dont really think the drop in power is worth running timid because logically, you would be running Max speed, which makes conkeldurr a big threat to it. (64 hp allows you to survive a mach punch)

I'm aware, I came up with the current on-site spread for Specs Hydreigon. Conkeldurr's unboosted Mach Punch will never OHKO Hydreigon, the 64 HP EVs were to survive +1 Mach Punch regardless (and some other things).

In any case, Haxorus is much more dangerous than Conkeldurr will ever be and has been rising in popularity. Outspeeding it is never a bad thing, whereas Conkeldurr is easily walled. The point isn't to revenge boosted or scarved Haxorus, obviously, it's that your sweep isn't halted by a Haxorus switch-in (it also revenges the deadly CBHaxorus).

 

[Molk]

I'm aware, I came up with the current on-site spread for Specs Hydreigon. Conkeldurr's unboosted Mach Punch will never OHKO Hydreigon, the 64 HP EVs were to survive +1 Mach Punch regardless (and some other things).

In any case, Haxorus is much more dangerous than Conkeldurr will ever be and has been rising in popularity. Outspeeding it is never a bad thing, whereas Conkeldurr is easily walled. The point isn't to revenge boosted or scarved Haxorus, obviously, it's that your sweep isn't halted by a Haxorus switch-in (it also revenges the deadly CBHaxorus).

Hm.... i see your point, maybe the 64hp is better on specs where max speed is better everywhere else.

 

[Tenodera]

Ah, it was +1 Mach Punch I should've said. It's so obvious in retrospect.

Dragon Gem is probably much/even more viable in GBU, where an unfortunate switch wasting the Gem is less likely. That's quite a good idea though.

 

[asterat]

Okay here is what I like. It breaks stall while recovering.
Hydreigon@ shell bell
-flamethrower
-surf
-Draco meteor
-outrgage
Hasty 252 speed, 252 SpA, 4 attack
The point is fire off very powerful attacks and when the special sponge comes in outrage him. Shell bell keeps you healthy while you destroy.

 

[Jimera0]

Okay here is what I like. It breaks stall while recovering.
Hydreigon@ shell bell
-flamethrower
-surf
-Draco meteor
-outrgage
Hasty 252 speed, 252 SpA, 4 attack
The point is fire off very powerful attacks and when the special sponge comes in outrage him. Shell bell keeps you healthy while you destroy.

Unless you're taking on something like Blissey, the recovery from Leftovers is usually greater (and much more reliable) than the recovery from Shell Bell. Shell Bell restores 1/8th of the damage you do, which means that in order to equal the recovery of Leftovers, you need to do at least 50% to a Pokemon that has the same HP as you. If they have more HP than you, you have to do less, and if they have less HP than you, you have to do more than half. The issue with this when your intent is to break Stall is that your opponent is going to be switching a lot, so unless you're bang on with you predictions, you're going to be hitting for resisted damage a lot. However, I suppose that thanks to Hydreigon's great coverage you might be able to surpass leftovers recovery if you predict well enough, and if they're switching constantly it's not like you're going to be taking damage unless they manage to status you at some point anyway.

But leftovers or Shell bell, either way the set does look good. I'd consider switching Flamethrower out for Fire Blast since it'd greatly appreciate the extra power seeing as it lacks any sort of boosts, and if your goal is to break stall the accuracy drop will not be missed as big a deal. I'm also curious of the choice of Surf over Dark Pulse; what kills does it net with Surf that it can't with Dark Pulse? After all, Latias and Reuniclus are finding their way onto more and more stall teams these days.

 

[Cold Fusion]

Okay here is what I like. It breaks stall while recovering.
Hydreigon@ shell bell
-flamethrower
-surf
-Draco meteor
-outrgage
Hasty 252 speed, 252 SpA, 4 attack
The point is fire off very powerful attacks and when the special sponge comes in outrage him. Shell bell keeps you healthy while you destroy.

Jimera0 has it spot on. But you can also drop Surf for Focus Miss instead, which even Blissey doesn't like switching into.

 

[IcyMan28]

4 Atk Hydreigon's Outrage is relatively weak for a wallbreaker to be honest, especially without Life Orb.

Shell Bell is also inferior to Leftovers in every case.

 

[Penance]

It's Latios 0.5! It has a similar typing advantage with a slightly different move pool and mehish stats. If the Lati's were Uber (Which they should be) this thing could take their place nicely. A slightly cool Dragon is nice to see >.>

 

[His Eminence Lord Poppington II]

Remember that dark type stab is really awesome for jellicent and the myriad of psychics, in addition to having access to flamethrower / fire blast and not being pursuit weak.

They're different pokemon!

 

[PK Gaming]

U-turn, dark typing, more power (lets face it Latios never uses modest) and actual coverage moves make it much different than Latios. I honestly prefer Hydreigon to Latios unless my team is weak to the fighting trio / landlos and I need that speed.

 

[Jimera0]

Seriously people, just stop responding to Penance. He's not here to make constructive comments he's here to troll.

But yeah, Hydreigon does have its perks. The ability to go mixed, run more coverage options, a usable dark type Stab (uncommon in OU this gen, but extremely useful with all the Ghosts and Psychics running about)... it definitely has a strong place in OU. Latios has its benefits (primarily in its speed), but so does Hydreigon. Outclassed it is not.