Gen 5 The OU Viability Ranking thread

[Magcargo]

IF Deo-D were to get banned, what pokemons would become more viable? Could this mean Aerodactyl and Azelf moving up a rank?

Scolipede and accelgor will become the new fast spikers while the two pokemon you mentioned will move up a rank.
How come raikou isn't on the list while jolteon is? What is jolteon's niche over raikou? Raikou has a better movepool, better attacking power and higher defenses. The only thing jolteon has over it is speed. I would say add raikou to the b-rank.

 

[ScraftyIsTheBest]

Scolipede and accelgor will become the new fast spikers while the two pokemon you mentioned will move up a rank.
How come raikou isn't on the list while jolteon is? What is jolteon's niche over raikou? Raikou has a better movepool, better attacking power and higher defenses. The only thing jolteon has over it is speed. I would say add raikou to the b-rank.

Pokemon who are UU and below usually aren't initially on the list (Hence, they're usually nominated to be on the list), hence why Raikou isn't on the list and Jolteon is. That said, I never actually used Raikou, but it does look like it would be C-Rank, although I'm not so sure, since I don't use Raikou. I'll test it a bit and come back and see though.

No mention of Hitmontop? I'd suggest Hitmontop for at least D-Rank. Hitmontop has his place as a spinner who can guarantee hazard removal with his access to a combination of Foresight and Rapid Spin, so he's a decent spinner to boot. His access to Intimidate also helps him check shit like Terrakion decently. He's outclassed in most aspects, and is weak for the most part, but let's face it: Hitmontop is not any Starmie/Tenta/Forry when it comes to spinning but he has his place, and that should put him in D-Rank minimum.

 

[Spork]

Snorlax for C? It's an excellent bulky attacker and defensive pivot on sun teams, for example, especially in how effectively it deals with the Latis. It has a good niche and isn't really outclassed.

 

[Magcargo]

Snorlax for C? It's an excellent bulky attacker and defensive pivot on sun teams, for example, especially in how effectively it deals with the Latis. It has a good niche and isn't really outclassed.

This is pretty debatible as snorlax gets demolished by fighting types, but takes special attackers like a champ. C-rank seems like a fine start.

 

[Charro]

No mention of Hitmontop? I'd suggest Hitmontop for at least D-Rank. Hitmontop has his place as a spinner who can guarantee hazard removal with his access to a combination of Foresight and Rapid Spin, so he's a decent spinner to boot. His access to Intimidate also helps him check shit like Terrakion decently. He's outclassed in most aspects, and is weak for the most part, but let's face it: Hitmontop is not any Starmie/Tenta/Forry when it comes to spinning but he has his place, and that should put him in D-Rank minimum.

I was about to make a post about Top :V

The most effective team that I have seen with Hitmontop was a Sun stall, and it peaked #1 on PO with 1700-ish cre. It was a damn solid team.

Aside from that particular team, I don't think that Top can be that effective, his flaws can only afford to be covered by a defensive team, but at least on those, it can pretty useful, and he deserves at least a mention.

 

[False Sense]

By the way, speaking of Underused Normal types, what does everyone think about Porygon2?

Having used it quite a bit before, I think it's a solid C-Rank pokemon. It's bulk is INSANE with Eviolite, and unlike Chansey it's not weak on one particular side, and it has decent offensive presence thanks to it's alright Special Attack and BoltBeam coverage. The icing on the cake is Trace, which lets it work amazingly against pokemon with very beneficial abilities, including but in no way limited to Multiscale, Natural Cure, Serene Grace, Poison Heal, Intimidate, and Levitate. It's hampered by it's very low speed and unfortunate lack of resistances, but often times it's sheer bulk more than makes up for it. Solid C-Rank for sure, in my opinion.

 

[Lavos]

i can also support porygon2 for c-rank. back in the days of early 2012, when bw1 was at its finest, p2 actually did a fairly solid job countering many prominent physical threats, though it always faced competition from the likes of skarmory, gliscor, and slowbro, all of which were able to face off against terrakion a lot better than duck did. p2 still faces the same issues it did in bw1, namely a crippling fighting-type weakness and no way to fend off status. even though it's meant to be a physical wall, it can't handle the most common physical threat in the game, which is disappointing. however, thanks to its diverse movepool, which includes access to the boltbeam combination, it's great against dragons of all sorts as well as offensive pokemon in general that lack a fighting-type attack. with eviolite, its defenses are better than any pokemon in ou, and trace is really handy in a pinch, often making the difference between a win and a loss. with trace, p2 can neutralize heatran (flash fire), jolteon (volt absorb), and odd stuff like flygon. also, tracing multiscale is awesome. still definitely outclassed by skarm, glisc, bro, etc., though.

solid c-rank for sure

 

[False Sense]

Yeah, Porygon2's Fighting weakness really holds it back, and status does hurt it quite a bit without leftovers. It is outclassed by other physical walls in that respect, but it's fantastic utility in Trace and it's fantastic mixed walling stats give it a niche. If you can work around it's fighting weakness with proper teammates (like maybe a Gliscor or Landorus-T), then it can be pretty self sustaining and can be a nuisance for teams to break through.

Oh, and if Porygon2 Traces something like Poison Heal, Natural Cure or Hydration, then the problems it had with status are gone. Just saying.

 

[Magcargo]

Porygon2 was built to be a tank and it does that job well.C-rank at the very minimum

 

[Smilodon]

Even if it's not often used in OU, I think that Porygon is also really good to set up TR. His typing is not that bad in a team where psychic types are often used (they resist fighting and appreciate ghost immunities), and he's able to use TR multiple times in a match.

He is also a good gravity user, with Zap Canon and Blizzard he can deal real damage.

 

[Deglas]

Yes, Porygon2 for C-rank. It is a good wall and utility counter, and has a great movepool. Porygon2 is also one of the Pokemon that makes Trick Room viable, as well as being a necessity on Gravity teams. Trace is also not the only viable Ability, as now that Genesect has left Download Porygon2 has a good chance of a free +1 SpA, which can let it do some damage with its great coverage.

 

[Kaizo]

Porygon2

C Rank- "Reserved for Pokemon who can be effective given the right support, but either have crippling flaws that prevent them from consistently executing their strategy or are completely eclipsed by a Pokemon in the above ranks."
Personally, I'm not too sure of where he should go but C Rank doesn't sound too bad. I feel he can do well with an instant recovery move and Eviolite. A bonus is if he picks up an ability that bolsters his defense or provides passive recovery. However, that's too unreliable and can sometimes hinder his usefulness at times as he will not have an ability to use. [For example, picking up the ability Multiscale is a blessing while receiving Moxie isn't too useful...]

I'm very new around here, so go easy on me haha. Anyway, I want to introduce a Pokemon that I feel should get some more usage and recognition.

Conkeldurr

With the ban of Tornadus-T and Genesect, Conkeldurr's life has become slightly easier. This metagame is infested with so many frail threats and Conkeldurr is able to take advantage of this. Thanks to his moves and stats, Conkeldurr is very hard to switch into once he gets the ball rolling. With his massive defensive stats, build and playstyle, grabbing a boost is not super difficult. Conkeldurr also possesses three awesome and viable abilities, Guts, Iron Fist and Sheer Force. Conkeldurr can use Leftovers and Bulk Up, Life Orb and Sheer Force or Iron Fist and Expert Belt to whatever role he wants to play. Whether it be a wallbreaker, hit and running tank or Bulk Up sweeper, Conkeldurr really can shine in this generation.
However, I don't expect A-Tier, due to various weather related threats that run amock in OU.

 

[Katakiri]

Kaizo, I have to disagree with you about Conkeldurr. Tornadus-T may be gone but Conkeldurr is still ruined by Rain. Starmie, Thundurus-T, Tornadus-I, Keldeo, and even Specs Politoed blow Conkeldurr away and its most common set lack the punch it needs to keep most of them from switching in before he's set up. Rain is just such an overly-powerful playstyle that Conkeldurr just can't stand up to it and none of their sweepers really care about Mach punch so he's not even useful for that angle. Conkeldurr does do fairly well against Sand and Balance. Most teams use Landorus-T or Gliscor as their sure-fire Fighting-type check and Bulk Up Conkeldurr just runs through them has nothing to fear from Physical Dragons after a Bulk Up or two. Sun and hyper offense are big issues as well but not nearly as much as Rain is.

Like most of C-Tier, Conkeldurr's usefulness is very situational. B-Tier Pokemon aren't perfect, but they serve a function that is useful against any team. Conk shouldn't be any higher than C-Tier.

But on the subject of C-Tier Fighting-types, I'd like to nominate Heracross for B-Tier. Scarf Heracross is very much C-Tier but Choice Band Heracross is B-tier with no question in my mind. I've been working with it for a few months now with great success.

Heracross has resistances any other Fighting-type would kill for including Terrakion (Fighting & Ground mostly,) Base 125 Attack and Guts, Solid Defenses 80/75/95, and 85 Base Speed. It's STAB coverage can seem a bit redundant with them both being resisted by Poison, Flying, and Ghost but there are so few resistant Pokemon that aren't 2HKOed by its STAB move that it's a non-issue. CB Heracross has only 2 true counters in OU: Landorus-T and Gliscor. Nidoqueen can stop it too she's not common by any stretch and Tentacruel absolutely needs Rain to stand a chance (and even then, Stone Edge nails it.) Any Ghosts that aren't 2HKOed by Megahorn are beat by Shadow Claw. For reference, this is Heracross' damage calcs on Pokemon relevant to OU:

Notice how Skarm and Forretress aren't even on the list (they take 52.82 - 62.71% from CC with Max Def) and notice how much Tentacruel takes from a resisted Close Combat/Megahorn. Heracross is just that powerful. It preys on defensive Pokemon like Ferrothorn because it can either run them over or OHKO/2HKO are switch-in. Even a bad prediction on Heracross' end can be deadly. For example, Sandard Jellicent takes 49.25 - 58.16% from Megahorn, a clean 2HKO after SR. If the opponent lacks one of the 3 or 4 Pokemon that can actually come in on Heracross, you can often click Megahorn and watch something die. It even preys on Politoed because Heracross is bulky enough to take a Scarf Hydro Pump and is faster than Spec so Hera can just OHKO Politoed turn one with no risk at all. It's even one of the few Pokemon that makes Deoxys-D shit itself turn one. Rain still threatens it since, while it's defenses are solid, they're nothing amazing. But unlike Conkeldurr or even Virizion, Heracross is anything but an open invitation for rain sweepers. All of Rain's top sweepers are OHKOed on switch depending on the move and 2HKOed at the very worst. And best of all, it has Guts. Scald and Will-O-Wisp are liabilities around Heracross and the same goes for Ferrothorn's T-Wave and Tenta's T-Spikes. Even Breloom can't really threaten it because Heracross can easily run Sleep Talk at the cost of Shadow Claw (Which only matters for Dusclops and Cofagrigus tbh.)

It's a nasty Pokemon to face down once it's counters are dealt with and I think C-tier is just selling it too short as it is very much in the same league as Hydriegon. If it's not smashing apart teams, it's breaking down core Pokemon to allow a teammate to sweep unhindered.

 

[malomyotismon]

Since we are adding in uu mons, i'd likme to put in the word for hitmontop for class C.

He is a bit like donphan as a rappid spinner which is all he is good for these days, dealing with threats such as tyranitar, pretty easily due to resistances to rock and dark, which threaten the teams he's best suited for, sun teams. The main draw to this little guy has got to be the ability to forsight on spin blockers, allowing him to rappid spin against them, allowing mons baddly weak to hazards to come in safely. Despite pitiful hp he is actually more bulky than rotom-w thanks to intimidate and a decent base 110 special defence, althrough your not going to be investing in it.

sorry it's a little rushed it's mainly to get people talking

 

[TUO]

Something i saw in the Viability Ranking caught my eye to need to be changed. I petition Virizion for B Rank. Virizion has an incredibly powerful typing giving it a Rock,Water and ground resist which are types that are very helpful to resist in the metagame paired up with that underrated Special bulk. Virizion can use the Swords Dance set to rip through sand teams getting a Justified boost from Choice Locked TTar(or just get a free SD). It sits at a very good speed tier of 108. However, sand teams that carry Latias, Latios or Mamoswine can make decent work of Virizion. This thing (I'm not really sure what it is) can plow through Rain as well since most Rain checks only carry one counter to Virizion. Virizion's CM set is exceptional in this with the only real downside having to resort to a measly Focus Blast. It is definitely above other C Rank pokemon like Slowbro and Cloyster and is a Pokemon that is a strong anti-metagame force (did i mention it beats RP Lando without Psychic?) that can be an essential late game sweeper. Once I refine my team, stay tuned for a Virizion based RMT.

 

[Hiphopanonymous]

I'd like to second Virizion for B rank. While I've never used the SD set, the CM set is incredibly anti-rain, and puts insane amounts of pressure on said rain players, who as The Unlucky one said, typically only carry one counter to it. It can even sneak in a surprise Synthesis or two on unsuspecting sun players, and can counter a good few sand teams as well, courtesy of it's amazing STAB. With invested Def, HP, amazing resistances, and a Bold Nature, it's not hard to start setting up CM's repeatedly, and generally is an unexpected threat that can completely steamroll unprepared teams.

 

[Katakiri]

I'm gonna have to play the villain here again and say that Virizion needs to stay C-Rank and no higher than that. Virizion is one of my favorite Pokemon of this generation but the metagame is just cruel to it.

Breloom's existence makes life hard on Virizion because nearly every team carries a Pokemon that can stop Breloom and Virizion is much weaker than Breloom and has quite a few more checks on top of Breloom's. Latios, Latias, Gengar, Skarmory, Forretress, Toxicroak, Heracross, Celebi, Amoonguss, Venusaur, Alakazam, Bronzong, need I go on? It is slightly influenced by the set Virizion is running, but they all check Virizion pretty handily. Trying to sweep with Base 90 offenses and no speed boosts is suicidal in this metagame and not just because every Scarf Pokemon in the tier is going to run you over. OU is weathered to deal with such more powerful Pokemon that Virizion can't even come close to breaking most OU teams.

The real kicker is that Virizion is outclassed by not one but two top OU Pokemon: Breloom and Keldeo. Breloom offers the same typing, Spore, a powerful priority move, and a disgustingly powerful Bullet Seed. Keldeo and Virizon share similar resistances while Keldeo is just more of a powerhouse. Keldeo does just as well as Virizion against Sand for the most part and is useful against any weather and really any team. Virizion on the other hand is borderline useless against Sun and Hyper Offense and actually invites their sweepers in for free.

If you want a Water-resistant Calm Minder, stick with Keldeo or Latias.
If you want a Swords Dancer, stick with Breloom.
Work Up is...Hey let's half-invest in our Base 90 offenses and expect to be threatening in the slightest. I mean it was good set for its time and I used the hell out of it in BW1 but now...no. Just no.

There's a reason you never see Swords Dance Terrakion without Sub or Rock Polish; you're completely open to Scarf Pokemon, Gengar, Starmie, Tornadus-I, and Alakazam. You could run Sub but without that 3rd coverage move, Virizion is an absolute joke. Flying-, Ghost-, and Poison-types will have a ball with you. Damned if it does, damned if it doesn't.

Calm Mind suffers similar problems and Virizion is probably one of the worst Calm Minders that are actually viable. It's Defense and HP stats are painfully average which means that Scarf Pokemon should have no trouble wiping Virizion out. That and the fact that ParaJirachi, CM-Psyshock Jirachi, CM Latias, & Volcarona manhandle CM Virizion on top of all those faster Psyshockers like Starmie can make life very hard for Virizion.

Virizion is a jack of all trades but a master of none. It's outclassed in nearly any role it can preform but I personally think Virizion's saving grace is Taunt and Dual Screens. Overall, yes, Virizion does very well against Sand teams and some Rain teams if that's all you need but it tends to be a big liability to its team against anything else and you really have to be prepared to deal with that.

That said, I still love Virizion and the rest of the Muskedeers; the current BW2 meta is just very, very stupid. Almost as stupid as my choice to stay up this late and expect to compose my thoughts well.

 

[Dakress]

Nominating Ms. Nobody AKA Milotic (yes, she still has an OU analisis) for D rank.

D Rank: Reserved for Pokemon who have a small niche in the current OU metagame, but have very noticable flaws that make them more trouble then their worth the majority of the time.

Being honest, the only niches Milotic still has in the tier is the Rest/Sleep Talk set and being a balanced "wall" of sorts which is not weak to Pursuit like Jellicent. Otherwise, she's pretty much outclassed by Slowbro, Quagsire, Tentacruel and the Pringles Squid who can take a Close Combat without worry.

 

[Lavos]

in all honesty, i see zero niche for milotic in the current ou metagame. it can't spinblock like jellicent, doesn't resist fighting like slowbro, can't spin like starmie, can't set hazards like tentacruel, and is even outclassed by unaware quagsire. milotic was a good bulky water back when the only other good ones were swampert and suicune, but that was two generations ago. now it's setup fodder and toxic bait. what is milotic doing that other ou bulky waters aren't?

 

[ScraftyIsTheBest]

I'll be brutally honest; I don't see any reason to use Milotic. Everyone does its job better. Everyone. I guess its qualities are good for UU, but not here. I don't even get why it has an analysis.

Oh and Hitmontop for D-Rank. As I said in a previous post, it is not that good, but it's an alright choice for those who need hazards, so it can guarantee a spin. Not that good, but it can be used to some effect.

Also, add Unown, Farfetch'd, and Magikarp to E-Rank as a joke.

 

[Tressed]

in all honesty, i see zero niche for milotic in the current ou metagame. it can't spinblock like jellicent, doesn't resist fighting like slowbro, can't spin like starmie, can't set hazards like tentacruel, and is even outclassed by unaware quagsire. milotic was a good bulky water back when the only other good ones were swampert and suicune, but that was two generations ago. now it's setup fodder and toxic bait. what is milotic doing that other ou bulky waters aren't?

The only real niche Milotic has is being a status absorber with Rest + Bulky water. It does have nice bulk when Marvel Scale is activated, but using Rest once means you'll be relying on Sleep Talk to get things done most of the time, which is bad. Beyond that, Milotic really has no place in OU.

 

[G-Von]

in all honesty, i see zero niche for milotic in the current ou metagame. it can't spinblock like jellicent, doesn't resist fighting like slowbro, can't spin like starmie, can't set hazards like tentacruel, and is even outclassed by unaware quagsire. milotic was a good bulky water back when the only other good ones were swampert and suicune, but that was two generations ago. now it's setup fodder and toxic bait. what is milotic doing that other ou bulky waters aren't?

As a couple other people have stated, It's RestTalk set allows it to gain a defense boost, which no other pokemon can boast. As minor or un-used as this strategy is used, it still is a minor niche.

 

[Lork]

As a couple other people have stated, It's RestTalk set allows it to gain a defense boost, which no other pokemon can boast. As minor or un-used as this strategy is used, it still is a minor niche.

i remember someone using that against me in early BW. i had nothing that could take it out so it just spread burns and hazard damage.

 

[Eggbert]

Where's snorlax? Bulky snorlax with rest talk can 6-0 most sun teams without thinking, easily countering the top sun threats in Volcarona and Venusaur. Proper Volcarona counters are rarely used nowadays and those teams get destroyed. It can also run choice band to trap latios better than ttar (you don't want to lose your weather starter) and can also counter heatran fully on sun teams. Just pack a landorus or something to beat terrakion.

Also, I support heracross for B tier.

 

[malomyotismon]

no thoughts on hitmontop for C tier?