Pokémon Hawlucha

[Heroes and Cons]

I have a feeling that, like the last two generations, we'll have to wait until the next game's tutors before any new mons learn the elemental punches.

I miss GSC and the Elemental Punch TMs being sold for 3000 bucks a pop. Of course they were special back then, but still, it was nice to have. They should always have remained TMs in my opinion. Who needs Infestation anyway?

I still have my doubts about Hawlucha, but it does make a deadly baton passer (if I've read this thread correctly) and certainly once it gets a stat boost it could be a particularly fearsome sweeper. We'll have to see how the metagame develops, and we really need fully-researched correct base stats to truly know its power and effect.

 

[TheEvergreenChameleon]

I miss GSC and the Elemental Punch TMs being sold for 3000 bucks a pop. Of course they were special back then, but still, it was nice to have. They should always have remained TMs in my opinion. Who needs Infestation anyway?

I still have my doubts about Hawlucha, but it does make a deadly baton passer (if I've read this thread correctly) and certainly once it gets a stat boost it could be a particularly fearsome sweeper. We'll have to see how the metagame develops, and we really need fully-researched correct base stats to truly know its power and effect.

I've been playing Hawlucha a lot, and I've become more and more convinced that Baton Passing is its real niche. It's just threatening enough of a sweeper to be able to ward off the glass cannons that would outspeed and kill it, and fast enough to be able to get the pass off against anything it can't face off against.

 

[Kafei-]

I have a 31/31/31/x/31/31 Hawklucha I can post it because i don't undestand how i can obtain the BS

 

[Mysteryracer]

This is what I use because 1st turn TTar is so common in OU. Hawlucha is a Pokemon sun teams have been needing. I solely use Hawlucha to ensure no rocks hit the field so my Megazard Y doesn't get crippled. I don't like Unburden on a scout/support Pokémon so this is why I chose Mold Breaker and Bounce over Unburden and Acrobatics.

Would be awesome to have Mold Breaker if Hawlucha had Earthquake. Bounce isn't the best move, because it can be switched out on, which is unfortunate.

 

[Mysteryracer]

I miss GSC and the Elemental Punch TMs being sold for 3000 bucks a pop. Of course they were special back then, but still, it was nice to have. They should always have remained TMs in my opinion. Who needs Infestation anyway?

I still have my doubts about Hawlucha, but it does make a deadly baton passer (if I've read this thread correctly) and certainly once it gets a stat boost it could be a particularly fearsome sweeper. We'll have to see how the metagame develops, and we really need fully-researched correct base stats to truly know its power and effect.

Goodra loves infestation. Hawlucha is already looking like it's gonna be an OU lead, but we'll see.

 

[blizzarddd]

in the various gen 6 matches i've played with hawlucha on PS!, it has been a HUGE threat. Once aegislash is gone, one SD and it's normally a clean sweep. Seriously, it hits hard. Very solid late game sweeper

 

[Celon]

Still, Aegislash is gonna be Hawlucha's biggest problem, though I suppose a lot of teams are gonna be prepared with a way to counter it, usually a Special Attack like Megazard Y who can take a Shadow Sneak. It'd be REALLY nice if Hawlucha got a good move to use against Aegislash though.

 

[IDW]

I agree, if it gets 1 move that's super-effective on Aegislash (not Hidden Power) it's going to be quite tricky to come up with somthing that's a better counter.

I think that flying and fighting moves are unresisted this gen (except for Aegislash), I can't think of anything good that resists it...

 

[Zabel Zarock]

Hawlucha is my favorite Gen 6 pokemon, next to Malamar. He's more or less a mixed bag however. He has a great speed stat and a decent attack stat worthy of Cruiserweight Champion. His other stats are pretty much average. Fighting/Flying is a great STAB combo no doubt, but it has a few flaws. It won't able to hurt Aegislash or Gardevoir (much in the latter's case) at all. His movepool is pretty average but it has the right tools it needs to succeed.

I can see this both as a setup sweeper and a Choice Band sweeper. Getting a +2 High Jump Kick will hurt and it gives Hawlucha the muscle it needs to sweep late game. Choice Band Hawlucha would be great as well since its naturally fast, would enjoy the attack boost from Choice Band, and can switch out on a whim via U-Turn. If there's a problem with Hawlucha is having a great Flying STAB. It doesn't have Brave Bird which would help a frail sweeper like Hawlucha. Acrobatics has been mentioned and will give Hawlucha a speed boost but forgoing a item will hurt a bit, but it will be a force to reckon with.

I want to see Hawlucha be successful, even in OU. I'm afraid it might bit to frail for OU but it can prove to be a great late game sweeper if you give it a chance.

 

[caffeinedreamer]

Do we have any more confirmed egg moves to add to these?:

Quick Guard
Entrainment
Baton Pass

 

[Skeosh]

Hawlucha is by far my favorite 6th gen as well. Ive run him on every team so far and he is a great scout/lead. I run him really successfully in a u-turn core with Greninja. Greninja takes care of most of his weaknesses and in turn Lucha cleans up Greninja's. Although its redundant, Im running him with poison jab/poison Gem combo. Partially because its one of 2 gems i've found in game (i have no good items yet). He surprises many fairy switch ins that aren't named Klefki, and the chance to poison is nice.

Lucha
jolly
Poison gem
252atk/252spe/4def
U-turn/encore
Acrobatics
HJK
Poison Jab

Greninja (mixed)
Naughty
@Kings Rock/Expert Belt (when I get one)
252spa/252atk/4spe
U-turn/extrasensory
Dark pulse
Waterfall
Ice Beam

so far bulky waters are the only thing I've had trouble with. I've been breeding joltik to try and get a 3rd for volt/turn coverage, but cant figure out why it wont learn sticky web as an egg move, despite all the threads that say as much.

 

[pitties]

Aegislash isnt even much of a counter for this. A SD flying gem acrobatics does around 55% and it is a OHKO if aegis is in sword mode. Oh and if Aegislash decides to king's shield, hawlucha can predict to get up to 4+ attack! After that a Aegislash cant survive.

 

[raddaya]

Aegislash isnt even much of a counter for this. A SD flying gem acrobatics does around 55% and it is a OHKO if aegis is in sword mode. Oh and if Aegislash decides to king's shield, hawlucha can predict to get up to 4+ attack! After that a Aegislash cant survive.

Why are you so sure that Hawlucha will predict the Kings Shield? Aegislash can switch in and threaten Hawlucha with a predicting game, that much we know.

 

[Heroes and Cons]

I agree, if it gets 1 move that's super-effective on Aegislash (not Hidden Power) it's going to be quite tricky to come up with somthing that's a better counter.

I think that flying and fighting moves are unresisted this gen (except for Aegislash), I can't think of anything good that resists it...

Hmmm, well they don't resist fighting, but with a small devensive investment, Metagross Bronzong and Skarmory can all take even a +2 LO HJK (or use Protect for the lulz) due to their insane physical bulk, and KO back with Zen Headbutt or Meteor Mash / Gyro Ball / Brave Bird respectively.
The Flying/Fighting combo is, like Dragon/Fire and Fairy/Ghost, extremely good 2-type coverage due to the lack of Pokemon that resist them (only Aegislash / Heatran / Pyroar resist them, respectively). So it is hard to check effectively and even harder to counter something with those STABs or move combinations.

 

[TheEvergreenChameleon]

Hmmm, well they don't resist fighting, but with a small devensive investment, Metagross Bronzong and Skarmory can all take even a +2 LO HJK (or use Protect for the lulz) due to their insane physical bulk, and KO back with Zen Headbutt or Meteor Mash / Gyro Ball / Brave Bird respectively.
The Flying/Fighting combo is, like Dragon/Fire and Fairy/Ghost, extremely good 2-type coverage due to the lack of Pokemon that resist them (only Aegislash / Heatran / Pyroar resist them, respectively). So it is hard to check effectively and even harder to counter something with those STABs or move combinations.

The current OU defensive Skarmory has a 96% chance of being 2HKOed after a +2 High Jump Kick, even without stealth rocks up, and cannot KO back with Brave Bird because it'd die from its own recoil after being hit with the first HJK, and so has no business switching in against Hawlucha. Metagross can survive the attack and KO back with Meteor Mash or Zen Headbutt, but Hawlucha outspeeds and can easily BP its swords dances away. Bronzong cannot OHKO with Gyro Ball, and goes down in 2 hits from HJK. It's also slower, and again can't do anything to stop the baton pass. This isn't even to mention the fact that Hawlucha can run a fighting gem instead of a flying gem, and land the OHKO on both Bronzong and Metagross.

 

[IDW]

Aegislash isnt even much of a counter for this. A SD flying gem acrobatics does around 55% and it is a OHKO if aegis is in sword mode. Oh and if Aegislash decides to king's shield, hawlucha can predict to get up to 4+ attack! After that a Aegislash cant survive.

And hope you live through it's shadow sneaks if you think wrong.

It seems like it's too much of a risky business to use Aegislash as a counter and too risky to keep Hawlucha in against Aegislash at the same time...

 

[Aldrein]

I belive hawlwcha will be at least underused, and will at least see some usage even in overused. He surely has low stats, but he gets great coverage by his stabs alone. Everybody know how hard HJK hits, and flying gem boosted acrobatic hits even harder. Low attack stat, but sword dance, bulk up and hone claws for set up calls for one of that mons that can wreck a lot if given just a free turn, that can be gained with encore. And u-turn is just as usefull as ever, even more if parting shot gets some diffusion and volturningshot teams come to live (that's some of a bad name).
Roost alsa is nice, but that low defences makes it useless on hawlucha.
Also, what's flying press base power?

 

[Emerald Master]

I belive hawlwcha will be at least underused, and will at least see some usage even in overused. He surely has low stats, but he gets great coverage by his stabs alone. Everybody know how hard HJK hits, and flying gem boosted acrobatic hits even harder. Low attack stat, but sword dance, bulk up and hone claws for set up calls for one of that mons that can wreck a lot if given just a free turn, that can be gained with encore. And u-turn is just as usefull as ever, even more if parting shot gets some diffusion and volturningshot teams come to live (that's some of a bad name).
Roost alsa is nice, but that low defences makes it useless on hawlucha.
Also, what's flying press base power?

flying press has 80bp, does hawlucha get double STAB on it? 'cause that would be awesome

 

[S0L1D G0LD]

flying press has 80bp, does hawlucha get double STAB on it?

No. It is a fighting type move that also does damage as a flying type move, not a fighting and flying type move.

 

[Emerald Master]

No. It is a fighting type move that also does damage as a flying type move, not a fighting and flying type move.

according to serebii and the attack description, it does flying AND fighting type damage

 

[Celon]

OK, to get the whole situation with Flying Press straight, yes, it does do both Fighting and Flying-type damage, but it doesn't get double STAB, since it's classified as a Fighting-type move. I addition, using it against something like Golem would only give it neutral damage, as Golem is weak to Fighting, but resists Flying. You're better off just using High Jump Kick and Acrobatics together. ANYWAYS, has anybody tried breeding Close Combat into Hawlucha yet? I'm curious because of the whole Power vs. Accuracy argument, and 90% accuracy is kinda shaky.

 

[TheEvergreenChameleon]

OK, to get the whole situation with Flying Press straight, yes, it does do both Fighting and Flying-type damage, but it doesn't get double STAB, since it's classified as a Fighting-type move. I addition, using it against something like Golem would only give it neutral damage, as Golem is weak to Fighting, but resists Flying. You're better off just using High Jump Kick and Acrobatics together. ANYWAYS, has anybody tried breeding Close Combat into Hawlucha yet? I'm curious because of the whole Power vs. Accuracy argument, and 90% accuracy is kinda shaky.

Yeah, it's been tried and doesn't work. That being said, even if it did work, HJK would be the superior option. Hawlucha needs the extra BP to land the critical 2HKO on Skarmory, and CC's defensive drop is not conducive to Baton Passing.

 

[Emerald Master]

has anyone thought of using HJK with a wide lens?

 

[S0L1D G0LD]

has anyone thought of using HJK with a wide lens?

Wide lens is shit. Just man up. 10% miss chance Bah. Back in my day, we had to deal with 10% miss chances and about 40 less power on our hi jump kicks, not this new "high" jump kick shit.

 

[Pata Hikari]

Hawlucha is my favorite Gen 6 pokemon, next to Malamar. He's more or less a mixed bag however. He has a great speed stat and a decent attack stat worthy of Cruiserweight Champion. His other stats are pretty much average. Fighting/Flying is a great STAB combo no doubt, but it has a few flaws. It won't able to hurt Aegislash or Gardevoir (much in the latter's case) at all. His movepool is pretty average but it has the right tools it needs to succeed.

If you're not Baton Passing you can have Poison Jab to handle Gardevoir and other Fairies.

Granted, it's still completely walled by Aegislash, but hey, nobody's perfect