I probably have an incorrect definition of prod then, I thought it meant just tag a person asking them to post more, which I did earlier.Dude, this is NOC -_-
If it means something like VMed or asked on IRC then sorry for the misunderstanding.
I probably have an incorrect definition of prod then, I thought it meant just tag a person asking them to post more, which I did earlier.Dude, this is NOC -_-
In my opinion, this is a good post. He explains his reasoning for others to see, and the amount of explanation also will provide us with ample information should one of them die (note: if Celever or Obbmud winds up being scum, examine the other closely). I don't see any way in which this post is defensive, though his lynch on DLE was probably a bit of an overreaction.Celever said:Jesus Christ guys this is an extremely fast bandwagon. Like some others have said, Obbmud's logic isn't actually that bad. I mean, Cancerous when he said that "if you have played mafia before you should now about the RVS" -- actually, I was playing in the Twilight Princess mafia which was also Obbmud's first game and there was no RVS in it. People just ganged up on LightWolf and tas iirc. But anyway, as that was also my first game, in the next NOC I played (Mario Kart, I believe?), what you are doing to Obbmud was very similar to what happened to me in that game. I.E, I had no clue what the RVS was thanks to there not being one in the beginner game, and then people thought I was acting dumb and playing up without checking and I got under fire. Thankfully I survived the onslaught of Spiffy and co. (Spiffy sux btw) but it was actually the mafias who were pressuring me the hardest. Because, imo, there are quite a few connections between what happened to me when I was village in Mario kart and what is happening now with Obbmud, I'm going to Unlynch Obbmud (I didn't think I had him voted, but I do in the vote count. Whatever :p) for now.
I'm not getting huge vibes from anyone else, but Cancerous aimlessly bandwagoned on both Ullar and Obbmud, and he was spouting information without backing it up. I would lynch Cancerous right now, but he is the Town Innocent Child. Cancerous, as the Inno Child you must check your info. You are essential to the village so please put lots of thought into your posts and check over things. A little bit later on people might start relying on you (personally I don't like becoming entirely reliant on anyone, but still) so you honestly have lots of bargaining power. Please use it wisely.
In the meantime, however, I will Lynch Da Letter El because not only is he inactive like B_T said, he also jumped the gun with Ullar. While this is fairly minor and was obviously a troll post, it still can be noted that he really created a freshly made wagon which I usually consider a scumtell. And then he kind of died and hasn't posted since.
The logic in this post is pretty terrible. Felony suggested that Celever bandwagon without reasoning, and condemned him for actually explaining things. Yes, it was an overreaction, but in NOC I've found it's better to overstate than understate. And then in your paragraph he mentions himself that the post was "good enough for D1." If that's the case, then there should be no problem here, right? Yet you feel the need to attack him anyways. The last person I played mafia with who was this intentionally antagonistic and abrasive was Metal Sonic, and you know what? He was mafia. My conclusion? While not exactly a defensive post, it certainly was a scummy one.Felony said:Why are you getting so defensive? You are very cagey and defensive just because you are trying to look like you are participating and calling out others that are not doing so. Instead of explaining how Obbmud's logic wasn't bad, you just simply drop it instead of digging deeper. Rather than going "I like B_T; what he said, lynch DLL", you went on a very detailed explanation as to why B_T was correct, one totally unneeded/unwarranted by the circumstances. Next, the case boils down to "this person jokevoted and then disappeared for 36 hours"; seeing someone show up on "Who's Online" and not posting in the thread is not generally considered grounds for a lynch in my opinion. That's a pretty weak case. Good enough for D1, I guess, but not one you spend an entire paragraph *of someone else's words* on. Finally, B_T's vote on DLL was timed and scoped specifically for pressure. While it's developed into a serious vote, that's not why it was originally made, so for you to pass it off as a serious vote is dumb. You voted DLL for what? You borrowed what you thought was B_T "serious" lynch to do so instead of coming up with your own.
This is seriously one of the most hypocritical and contradictory paragraphs I've ever seen. Let's examine a few contradictions:Felony said:How am I being defensive? Can you give an example? Second, someone who doesn't take accusations seriously just looks scummy to me. Your post caught my attention because I didn't see the intent to scum hunt from you, just to post without putting up info for us to go on. If DLL was the next best target to you, why spend your whole post saying exactly what B_T mentioned? Also, nice job twisting my words. I said while it has developed into a serious lynch, that was not the original point of the vote, and that it was dumb for you to pass it off as one. I never called Walrein's posts weird, I said they had a lack of quality from an experienced player, and when I made that post, it was true. On to what you said about Memoric, no he shouldn't hide who he thinks is mafia. Players giving their thoughts on who they think is scum is almost never a bad idea and this is still day 1 if you forgot. Any information is helpful and he has absolutely no reason to be keeping it secret.
"Players giving their thoughts on who they think is scum is almost never a bad idea..." So, the thing you're attacking Celever for doing is never a bad idea?Felony said:Walrein is playing weird right now.
So you're accusing Ullar and Celever of being mafia; one for overexplaining, the other for underexplaining. I think I've heard enough. starwarsfan is no longer my prime scumread.Felony said:My top two scum reads at the moment are UllarWarlord and Celever. Ullar is just using the fact that he is new to NOC as an excuse for a lack of clarifications on his posts and lynch votes.
If Celever built a case / had a reason to lynch DLL that was different from the one stated by B_T, then there would be no problem. I wasn't suggesting that he bandwagon, I was saying that he should have established a case different from B_T. He also wasn't condemned for explaining things, he was rebuked for explaining things and basically reiterating things already expressed by B_T's post. I'm attacking him so he doesn't take pressure votes and turn them into "serious" lynches for no reason, something you clearly missed.I dislike that Ace Emerald is trying to stifle discussion regarding the point of defensiveness, because it was actually a productive conversation, provided we can steer it in the right direction.
Let's return to the original question: were Felony and Celever defensive when responding to each other?
To answer this question, we'll need to define what we mean by "defensive" in the context of scumminess. This context is everything; in my opinion, it's possible to defend yourself without being "defensive."
Celever's post which was being questioned:
In my opinion, this is a good post. He explains his reasoning for others to see, and the amount of explanation also will provide us with ample information should one of them die (note: if Celever or Obbmud winds up being scum, examine the other closely). I don't see any way in which this post is defensive, though his lynch on DLE was probably a bit of an overreaction.
Felony's response:
The logic in this post is pretty terrible. Felony suggested that Celever bandwagon without reasoning, and condemned him for actually explaining things. Yes, it was an overreaction, but in NOC I've found it's better to overstate than understate. And then in your paragraph he mentions himself that the post was "good enough for D1." If that's the case, then there should be no problem here, right? Yet you feel the need to attack him anyways. The last person I played mafia with who was this intentionally antagonistic and abrasive was Metal Sonic, and you know what? He was mafia. My conclusion? While not exactly a defensive post, it certainly was a scummy one.
Let's take a look at some of Felony's other responses.
This is seriously one of the most hypocritical and contradictory paragraphs I've ever seen. Let's examine a few contradictions:
"How am I being defensive?" -> "Also, nice job twisting my words." This is, in fact, a defensive statement.
"I never called Walrein's posts weird..." Uh, dude.
"Players giving their thoughts on who they think is scum is almost never a bad idea..." So, the thing you're attacking Celever for doing is never a bad idea?
One possible explanation for this? It's like the final opponent in Ace Attorney Dual Destinies; his emotions aren't real, so he contradicts himself all over the place trying to fake them.
So you're accusing Ullar and Celever of being mafia; one for overexplaining, the other for underexplaining. I think I've heard enough. starwarsfan is no longer my prime scumread.
Unvote
Lynch Felony
http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/shiny-new-tags-mafia-day-1-vc-6.3505374/page-6#post-5421786Felony I notice you lurking, I'd love it if you would make a post regarding the accusations leveled against you.