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The Everything NFL Punter Thread - 2014/2015 Season
- Thread starter Stallion
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1. Thank you, TheValkyries, for finally clarifying that I was talking about the Lions, not the Bills.
2. Yes, Lacy ran all over them. And what was the final score of that game? The NFL is a passing league, and the Bills D, as it's currently constructed, is set up to defend the pass. For the past two years, we have been consistently at the top of the league in how low we keep opposing passers' rating/QBR/whatever stat you use. Who really cares if Eddie Lacy puts up 300 yards on the ground in a losing effort? You Ravens and Steelers guys are living with an old school AFC North mentality (still caring about a good running game), which makes no sense because both your teams have shown how the only thing that matters is having a quarterback that can chuck it. The Bills don't, and that's why their fucking amazing defense went home after week 17.
2. Yes, Lacy ran all over them. And what was the final score of that game? The NFL is a passing league, and the Bills D, as it's currently constructed, is set up to defend the pass. For the past two years, we have been consistently at the top of the league in how low we keep opposing passers' rating/QBR/whatever stat you use. Who really cares if Eddie Lacy puts up 300 yards on the ground in a losing effort? You Ravens and Steelers guys are living with an old school AFC North mentality (still caring about a good running game), which makes no sense because both your teams have shown how the only thing that matters is having a quarterback that can chuck it. The Bills don't, and that's why their fucking amazing defense went home after week 17.
Frankly I'm surprised only 15 of Joe's throws have gone for DPI. "Draw DPI" seems like a staple play in the Ravens' offense this season.
Also NE should definitely be the favorite. Media just likes the notion of the impeccable Pats having an Achilles heel (in this case, the Ravens). Remember how everyone lost their minds after that KC loss earlier this season?
Also NE should definitely be the favorite. Media just likes the notion of the impeccable Pats having an Achilles heel (in this case, the Ravens). Remember how everyone lost their minds after that KC loss earlier this season?
Well, if you'll notice when you watch any game, even the announcers will point out how easy it is to draw DPI by simply "coming back" to the QB. There will be a slightly underthrown ball and the WR will turn back to get it knowing he has to go through the CB who is almost never turned around, and the announcer will say something like "that's a 'veteran move' to draw the PI call". I wouldn't be surprised if there is even a little coaching going on to that effect. Maybe not so much to get the QB to underthrow, but to get the WRs to move a certain way knowing it'll likely draw a foul.
Too bad Kubiak came in this year and called the deep passes significantly less than his predecessor. Joe Flacco threw a ball 20+ yards on only 10.1% of all plays, and iirc he's still getting all of those calls this year too.
EDIT:
WOAH I TOTALLY MISSED A BUNCH OF POSTS IN MY HURRIEDNESS TO RESPOND.
I resubbed to PFF yesterday and noticed that Flacco was throwing markedly less deep balls than he used to, so the fact that he's still getting lots of DPI's is rather telling in this case.
In the article that catalogues it he had 9 DPI calls past twenty yards and he only threw that deep 56 times. That's literally a hit rate of almost 1/6. FOOD FOR THINKS.
Double EDIT:
Pats are 7 point favorites last I heard.
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Double posting because DGAF:
Play Action pass bruh. If the run game starts seeing success, the dline can't pass rush as hard as they used to because they have to respect the play-action. If a DLine can stop/contain the run without sacrificing too much pass rushing integrity they can sell out on pass rushing on the more obvious passing downs, since there's no such thing as a Pass Action Run that they have to worry about.
Also I watched that Packers/Bills game, they didn't run the play-action as much as they should have. They kept trying to go from the gun spreading out wide, and then would handoff to Lacy, who would get through the pass rushers and deal with a linebacker light nickel d from the Bills, hence his success. ADMITTEDLY, never been a fan of GB's high-level coaching. "Oh our primary pass first offense is getting shut down, but they're just giving us this clock eating running game? WHAT IMBECILES WE GOT THIS. What's that? Try and get the passing game going, nah it'll be FINE."
Bills Pass D is fucking legit tho, rillest possible talk.
lol what is a Draw then?
What you have linebackers for.
For more detail: A draw from second and long or third and long will tend to get stopped long before they get in a position to really threaten you due to the linebackers or safeties keying in on the rb to watch how that develops. Draws like those from a 2nd and 10 (assuming they get through the pass rush of the nose tackles) will get 4-6 yards AT WORST, which leaves them with a 3rd and 6, and at best a 3rd and 4. At those down and distances passes are far more likely, and it also allows a defense to crunch the linebackers closer to the line to prevent both crossing routes at the first down marker and to also be more prepared for any type of run.
IN OTHER WORDS, draws don't get shit done on the "obvious" passing situations.
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I was being facetious
I wanted to impress upon people how much they were favored for added facetious effect.
So with the Panthers winning the superbowl, who do you think they will beat in it? Obviously I would want us to defeat the Colts because they are the most likeable team left, but a Steve Smith Sr appearance or a rematch vs the Pats are really nice story lines for the Cinderella story that's about to occur.
Please, 1/6 passes DPI is not a reason to say he is some lucky asshole. Idk where this notion even came from, if you are trying to argue it you are a butthurt pats fan.
Yes, these QBs are TAUGHT to recognize when they can draw an easy DPI, since it has the same effect as a completion. If they don't get the flag it is the equivalent of an incompletion. Game film is really telling as to the way joe flacco throws his DPI drawing passes, usually on mismatches underneath with a WR being beaten by a corner but the corner in a position unable to turn his head. Flacco will throw what is almost a laser and leave it short. This isn't native to flacco, it is just something the qbs are now being taught to do.
Yes, these QBs are TAUGHT to recognize when they can draw an easy DPI, since it has the same effect as a completion. If they don't get the flag it is the equivalent of an incompletion. Game film is really telling as to the way joe flacco throws his DPI drawing passes, usually on mismatches underneath with a WR being beaten by a corner but the corner in a position unable to turn his head. Flacco will throw what is almost a laser and leave it short. This isn't native to flacco, it is just something the qbs are now being taught to do.
Oh and because Flacco's just such a good student he's doing what they're being "taught" factors better than everyone else in the league. "Ok, bud."
These lasers he's throwing, they're going not just 20 yards, but 6 over 25 yards, and 3 over 30 yards which he's just magically lasering to the perfect spot every single time because that's a realistic expectation of QB throwing abilities. Again, "Ok, bud."
Also, 1/6 attempts for 20+ automatically gets 20+ yards whether they caught the ball or not, and you're saying that's not significant? One more time, "Ok, bud."
These lasers he's throwing, they're going not just 20 yards, but 6 over 25 yards, and 3 over 30 yards which he's just magically lasering to the perfect spot every single time because that's a realistic expectation of QB throwing abilities. Again, "Ok, bud."
Also, 1/6 attempts for 20+ automatically gets 20+ yards whether they caught the ball or not, and you're saying that's not significant? One more time, "Ok, bud."
no, its called intentionally underthrowing balls when a corner has their back turned but the throw is so difficult that there is a better chance of drawing DPI than there is of completing a pass.Oh and because Flacco's just such a good student he's doing what they're being "taught" factors better than everyone else in the league. "Ok, bud."
These lasers he's throwing, they're going not just 20 yards, but 6 over 25 yards, and 3 over 30 yards which he's just magically lasering to the perfect spot every single time because that's a realistic expectation of QB throwing abilities. Again, "Ok, bud."
Also, 1/6 attempts for 20+ automatically gets 20+ yards whether they caught the ball or not, and you're saying that's not significant? One more time, "Ok, bud."
Oh and because Flacco's just such a good student he's doing what they're being "taught" factors better than everyone else in the league. "Ok, bud."
These lasers he's throwing, they're going not just 20 yards, but 6 over 25 yards, and 3 over 30 yards which he's just magically lasering to the perfect spot every single time because that's a realistic expectation of QB throwing abilities. Again, "Ok, bud."
Also, 1/6 attempts for 20+ automatically gets 20+ yards whether they caught the ball or not, and you're saying that's not significant? One more time, "Ok, bud."
I think you're overestimating how far 30 yards is. If there's no pressure, anyone with a decently strong arm can throw a 30 yard pass with some accuracy. I can do this and I never played QB, so it's not as challenging as you may think.
Also it's not just the QBs being coached, the WRs also play a large part in these situations. Even if the QB intentionally underthrows the ball, the WR has to turn back at the right time and make a play for the ball without giving the CB time to react.
throwing one when you feel like a DPI is more likely is a thing. I think you are overestimating how difficult it is to get a DPI call. Some of those types of throws are tight windows, but just pegging it at the corners back is much easier and garners a similar result, especially in those situations where a corner turning around can result in an interception or a ball hawking safety can beat a longer throw.
"If there's no pressure" is a big if. Compare how easily Kickers drill 60+ yard field goals in warm-ups, but have difficulty over 40. Also, the key here is that he has to be darting a ball 30 yards down the field with great accuracy in real game like situations. The only guy in the league able to make a throw like that with any consistency is Aaron Rodgers, and everyone can see how he employs that ability. If you expect all QBs to have that capability why aren't their more stretch routes from all teams? Why don't we see the QBs trying to make those types of throws more consistently?
The reality of it is beyond 20 yards and especially beyond 25 yards, QBs are throwing the ball up more, sacrificing some accuracy for distance, leaving the Receivers (or the CB) to make the play on the ball. From there you can make many types of conclusions from these Flacco numbers, none of them being "Holy shit Flacco so perfect what a god!"
Pro Football Focus said:
Give the man the damn MVP. Sure his position might not be as important as Rodgers', but holy fuck there is nobody in the NFL half as good at their job than Watt is. Absolute privilege to watch him play.
Literally, if you even slightly agree with PFF's methodology.
What's more impressive is that he did it without Clowney on the other side, basically ensuring that he could be double teamed every game for the whole year. You can't really scheme around a quarterback, but you can attempt to scheme around a defensive end... Not that it matters the slightest bit to Watt. If he doesn't win it this year, they should rename the MVP to the Quarterback-and-sometimes-running back-award.
Watt deserves MVP, no questions asked.
I do want to clear up that I am in no way referring to flacco as a godlike qb, but there is no question to whether or not he is clutch if you have actually watched him play for an extended period of time. He is at least top 10, maybe top 5 (hes #6 on my list). A point needs to be made, however: Just because so-and-so big name reporter says flacco is amazing does not mean that you need to bash on him and act like he is terrible because you disagree. Don't let other people dictate your opinions, since I am SURE that for some of you, seeing flacco high up on qb lists made him go down on your own out of dislike.
I do want to clear up that I am in no way referring to flacco as a godlike qb, but there is no question to whether or not he is clutch if you have actually watched him play for an extended period of time. He is at least top 10, maybe top 5 (hes #6 on my list). A point needs to be made, however: Just because so-and-so big name reporter says flacco is amazing does not mean that you need to bash on him and act like he is terrible because you disagree. Don't let other people dictate your opinions, since I am SURE that for some of you, seeing flacco high up on qb lists made him go down on your own out of dislike.
We'll see what happens in this divisional round but I've already resigned myself to the fact that the Super Bowl will be Ravens vs Seahawks. Sports just troll me in giving the championship to the team I dislike most, and I'd be alright with any other team in the playoffs winning. Therefore it has to be Seahawks or Ravens.
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