The Everything NFL Punter Thread - 2014/2015 Season

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LonelyNess

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It's most valuable player, not best player on the field.

Aaron Rodgers turns a 5-6 win team into the #2 seed. He's more valuable. He deserves it more than Watt.
 

Stallion

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That's how we do #RavensNation.

Flacco has already scored one more td than all the Patriots homer's on Patspulpit predicted for the game.
 

Stallion

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God how mediocre is Flacco? He's doing nothing but throw up crappy jump balls to go for PI's.... not like he can tear the Patriots a new asshole without the refs..
 
It's most valuable player, not best player on the field.

Aaron Rodgers turns a 5-6 win team into the #2 seed. He's more valuable. He deserves it more than Watt.
this argument is flawed when a good quarterback is always going to be their team's most valuable player. literally every team except Arizona (who probably would have been the #1 seed with Palmer) that made the playoffs this year would have had 4-5 fewer wins if they were missing their quarterback. does that mean Cam Newton, Joe Flacco, Andrew Luck, and Matt Stafford should be in the top 10 for MVP?

the MVP award is a joke because it is hugely biased towards quarterbacks, because quarterbacks are the mostly highly valued position. it's not technically incorrect, but it is very wrong.
 

xJownage

Even pendulums swing both ways
You have to have the perspective of "how much better would this team be if they had an average player instead of this one". If the Packers had an average qb, say, jay cutler or something, how good would they be?

If you feel like being technical i could just tell you its the highest paid player in the nfl....so no.
 

WaterBomb

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<troll> Flacco's first TD was a 5 yard dumpoff that the WR ran 10 additional yards to get, and the second one was thrown poorly behind Smith Sr and he made a great catch to get it </troll>

Flacco is throwing pretty well today though, can't discredit him there :). The Patriots need to switch out of this zone coverage before they really do lose

EDIT: That third TD was a great throw too
 
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Mr.E

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"Draw DPI" seems like a staple play in the Ravens' offense this season.
Look what play they just called at the end of the first half! And it was actually a good call, minus the whole ball-was-five-yards-out-of-bounds thing...
 

Mr.E

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And apparently I missed an entire page of posts first but honestly I'm the kind of guy that just treats "most valuable player" and "best player" as synonymous. If you're the best, then by necessity you must also be the most valuable, right? If you're the best, then you're the player who gives your team the highest chance to win by having you on it, thereby being the most valuable.
 
You have to have the perspective of "how much better would this team be if they had an average player instead of this one". If the Packers had an average qb, say, jay cutler or something, how good would they be?
There's tons of advanced football stats, but unlike baseball there isn't (and can't be) a unified "Expected Points Added" statistic - it's a team sport, after all. still, that doesn't stop people from trying.

Advanced Football Analytics has an EPA statistic, and it's easy to see that good quarterbacks add a LOT of points. Win Probability Added is probably a better stat for comparing "value" as it takes the individual results of every play, so let's use that instead.

If you were going to take Aaron Rodgers' win probability added and make it a unit (1 AR = 5.16 WPA), here's how some of the top QBs this year have stacked up:
Rodgers = 1 AR (obviously)
Romo = 0.810 AR
Roethlisberger = 0.785 AR
Manning = 0.775 AR
#5 Stafford = 0.694 AR
So, effectively, the next best QBs were about 80% as good as Aaron Rodgers this year.

Comparing them to the "average" QB is always questionable for a couple reasons. Even though there's 32 QBs in the NFL, the bottom third tend to cycle constantly, meaning there's only about 20 guys that are constantly starting unless they're injured. This year, that list includes 16 every-game-starters (Oakland's Carr is the only debatable one, I guess), plus Romo/Newton/A. Smith/Bridgewater who probably should have started all 16 games. You could include Sanchez, Orton, Palmer, or Fitzpatrick if you want to I guess, so the number's somewhere around 20-24 consistent guys, so it's fair to say the "average consistent QB" should be around #12.

A lot of people seem to think (for whatever reason) that Andy Dalton is the poster child for average QB play in the NFL. I've always been of the opinion that if you're outside the top 12, you're average. So let's take a look at Dalton and #13, who this year was *gulp* Joe Flacco.
#13 Flacco = 0.472 AR
#16 Dalton = 0.368 AR

Let's do something similar with JJ Watt. Don't even look at these stats comparing him to other Defensive Ends unless you want to feel embarrassed for everyone else at the position.

Let's take Watt's WPA (1 JJwatt = 3.21 WPA) and compare it to some other guys. Forget the "average" defensive end, let's just look at the difference between JJ and the rest of the top 5 Defensive Ends.
I'm sorry for the pun said:
Watt = 1 JJwatt
Jason-Pierre Paul = 0.561 JJwatts
Everson Griffen = 0.461 JJwatts
Carlos Dunlap = 0.417 JJwatts
#5 Cameron Wake = 0.414 JJwatts
Comparing JJ Watt's season to the #3 Defensive End is literally almost equivalent to comparing Aaron Rodger's season to Joe Flacco's (regular season, because regardless of your feelings about the guy he's playing pretty damn well in the postseason!) I really don't think anything else needs to be said, if anyone is unconvinced with something as simple as this then they are either in the "I don't believe in advanced statistics" camp or they are in the "Quarterbacks should be MVP every year" camp.
 

xJownage

Even pendulums swing both ways
Killah well summed up what I was trying to say, and Jay culter is inconsistent enough i just spat his name out randomly so w/e.
 

xJownage

Even pendulums swing both ways
I am also loving how this thread is absolutely lighting up with all the baltimore vs new england trash talk.
 

WaterBomb

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I don't think I've ever seen a team able to universally step it up quite like Baltimore come playoff time. I don't know what they are doing, but it's working. No matter how mediocre they were in the regular season, they just light the fire under everyone. I want some of it for my team :(
 
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