32 turns of stall in the Hail: Walrein

As was just mentioned everything has a counter and it's not like Jynx is the most popular pokemon out there. At least T-tar and Clefable can be found a decent amount of teams.
 

chimpact

fire nation
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Octiller laughs at you, since you can't roar it away, and it will just Charge Beam up until it can break the sub with another move. Though it isn't very common.
 
Octillery doesn't have the power to threaten Walrein and it wont outlast Walrein through the hail, though. Non stab chargebeam on Octillery is pretty weaksauce.
 
Octiller laughs at you, since you can't roar it away, and it will just Charge Beam up until it can break the sub with another move. Though it isn't very common.
Substitute on the turn it breaks the sub. Protect on the next turn. Substitute again.

16 turns later, Octillery dies to hail. If it has leftovers, you can nick it away slowly with Surf / Blizzard, because hail neutralizes its leftovers and I don't think it gets a reliable recovery move.
 

Mr.E

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Pressure only doubles PP usage of attacks that actually target the opponent. Self-targeted skills such as Substitute and Protect are unaffected.

It's still nothing but a staller that can't threaten the opponent into giving a damn about scaring you away.
 
Ok, this Walrein is very interesting. Someone mentioned Jynx as a counter, but what about using Luna on the same team? Obviously it wouldn't work well in with toxic spikes; but it is a real pain for blissey (which will now largely be carrying ice beam as standard) and is fast, which is the one thing that this walrein is not.

Also, Rest/Sleep talk/Stone edge/Dynamic punch Machamp could be a problem with both moves super effective and confusion form dynamic punch. Even stalling it would be annoying cos not much on an ice team will like machamp and sleep talk helps with PP. Plus it loves toxic if its a cross chop/stone edge guts variant and can recover with rest when needed.
 
Because Charge Beam has a 50% chance of raising your Special Attack. Even then it still wouldn't work because it's only 90% accurate, plus Walrein can still sub+protect and the Charge Beam will never hit you anyway, because Octillery isn't exactly the fastest turtle in the pond.
 
Think i fought DTs Walrein before and got caught completely by surprise... lost to it.

maybe heres where Feint might finally have some use? Technician Feint from Persian with CB or CB Feint from Hitmontop?? its quite a pity than if you really have to resort to this to just counter Walrein. Waste of a moveslot.

So if ppl start using Feint, i guess it will be Feint on the Protect turn and hit with an SE attack on the substitute turn to break the sub?
 
Because Charge Beam has a 50% chance of raising your Special Attack. Even then it still wouldn't work because it's only 90% accurate, plus Walrein can still sub+protect and the Charge Beam will never hit you anyway, because Octillery isn't exactly the fastest turtle in the pond.
Timid and Modest Octillery are faster than this Walrein...

207/189 (Octillery Max Speeds) vs 177 (Dragontamer Walrein Speed)

...and don't forget Ninjask (a very good friend of Octillery) and his Baton Passes...

What was the question, again?
 
Timid and Modest Octillery are faster than this Walrein...

207/189 (Octillery Max Speeds) vs 177 (Dragontamer Walrein Speed)

...and don't forget Ninjask (a very good friend of Octillery) and his Baton Passes...

What was the question, again?
Roar...

Edited: forgot bout suction cups

Anyway whats the use of being faster when after u break his sub, he jus sets up another one
 
I do love my stallers. This set sounds very evil indeed. It's a pity that I dislike Walrein and Abomasnow, otherwise I'd be out training them for this set right now!
 
anyway did some calculations just for fun...

Persian's Feint is stronger than Hitmonstops due to STAB...
With CB, Max Att Persian against a Max Hp Max Def boosting nature does 117-138 damage, more than a quater of Walreins Hp..
 
What about Lapras? It has Water Absorb, Thunderbolt, commonly uses Rest and Blizzard does lol% to it.
Roar. If the toxic spikes are out like they should be, Lapras dies first.

anyway did some calculations just for fun...

Persian's Feint is stronger than Hitmonstops due to STAB...
With CB, Max Att Persian against a Max Hp Max Def boosting nature does 117-138 damage, more than a quater of Walreins Hp..
So it breaks the sub, and I can't protect against it... But if I instead use Surf instead of protect on the turn you use Feint, then it is essentially a protect because Feint will fail.

EDIT: However, I do see the above set surprising me. You switch Persian in... I use substitute. I use protect, you feint and break the sub. You use hypnosis and effectively end my Walrein's stalling streak.

Of course, next time I see a persian, I'm just going to surf or roar it away :-p

EDIT2: Wait... does anyone other than Persian break Walrein's sub when using Feint?
 
So in order to prevent from encountering a stall set like this in the future, I should set up my own toxic spikes just in case.
 
Do you know how many damage a crit hit from T-tar's Stone Edge will do? I mean, Sandstorm makes sure that you can't restore more health. NTM that most of the Tyranitars are carrying Taunt. You won't be able to either Protect or make a sub. Even Rock Slide is annoying as it gains STAB and has a 30% flinch ratio.
 
I've been using this set lately. Working quite well.

Tentacruel is the weakness link, I have a trouble getting it in to Toxic Spike. What EVs do you use on it DT? Mine is Timid with enough EVs to outspeed Adamant Garchomp but I think a bulky spread would be better.

Could a Forretress be a better choice for Toxic Spikes and Rapid Spin?

Edit: Calm 252 HP / 72 Spd / 184 SpD is working well.
 
I've been using this set lately. Working quite well.

Tentacruel is the weakness link, I have a trouble getting it in to Toxic Spike. What EVs do you use on it DT? Mine is Timid with enough EVs to outspeed Adamant Garchomp but I think a bulky spread would be better.

Could a Forretress be a better choice for Toxic Spikes and Rapid Spin?

Edit: Calm 252 HP / 72 Spd / 184 SpD is working well.
Tentacruel for me is a Special defensive type pokemon who has max HP/Sp. Def and can lay down a 2 layers of Toxic Spikes when Starmie or Jolteon switches in before going down.

I switch out on garchomp. Sacrifice someone and then revenge kill/force it out with something else.

Do you know how many damage a crit hit from T-tar's Stone Edge will do? I mean, Sandstorm makes sure that you can't restore more health. NTM that most of the Tyranitars are carrying Taunt. You won't be able to either Protect or make a sub. Even Rock Slide is annoying as it gains STAB and has a 30% flinch ratio.
I've already stated that T-Tar is a serious problem. If the Toxic Spikes are laid down as well as a Substitute, you can roar on the turn he taunts (or Dragon Dances), then surf/blizzard as he breaks the sub if he taunted your roar.
 
And don't say that without a substitute this thing sucks. It takes 3 fire punches from a Dusknoir to break the sub, it takes 2 earthquakes from Donphan to break the sub... It can certainly afford a roar or two.
 

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