I've been using this Walrein with very much success in ShoddyBattle, very few things are getting through it anymore. I started off a little differently, but for the past day or so, there haven't been any changes to this set. Wait, stalling in D/P? Yes, it is possible. If all is set-up correctly, you will indeed stall for 32 turns, and there are a few ways to break out of the stall cycle, but I'll get to that later. For now, here's the set. EDIT: If this thing needs a name, I'll go by "StallRein". Seems like most other people have picked it up already. Personally speaking, I would go with WALLrein, or Walrein for short. :-p Walrein (♂) @ Leftovers Ability: Ice Body EVs: 220 HP/244 Def/46 Spd Bold nature (+Def, -Atk) - Substitute - Protect - Roar - Surf / Blizzard / Toxic Defense Tier Analysis With the above EVs, this Walrein is Defense tier 123.25 and Sp. Def tier 119.67. This is a higher score than a 252/252 Bold Weezing (123.07 Def, 115.22 Sp. Def), but below a 252/252 Gliscor. While it has more weaknesses than Weezing, its special defense is more well rounded. Dusknoir (a well rounded wall) scores (122.63, 119.68) when 252/252 +Def. Essentially, this Walrein is stronger than it in physical defense, while nearly equal in special defense. Unavailable in this analysis is of course the effects of Ice Body + Leftovers. Restoring 12% health each turn is quite a massive advantage over these other walls, who would otherwise be 0% as hail cancels out their leftovers, or only 6% in typical circumstances. Full Analysis With the above EVs and 31 IVs in everything, Walrein will outspeed 0 Skarmory and Swampert. With the magic HP EVs listed above, Substitute will cost you 104 HP per turn, while Leftovers will give you 26, and then Ice Body will give you 26 more per turn. So lets do a little math here, shall we? With the above EVs, you hit 416 HP. Turn 1: Substitute. Lose 104 HP. Gain 26 from Leftovers. Gain 26 from Ice Body Turn 2: Protect. Gain 26 from Leftovers. Gain 26 from Ice Body. Turn 3: Substitute again. 26 + 26 + 26 + 26 is... 104 HP. Wow. Isn't that great? As Substitute has a max of 16 PP, and Protect has a max of 16 PP as well, this gives rise to the title of this thread: 32 turns of stall. But wait... there are common counters to substitutes. Namely, phazers, double-hit, taunt, and pokemon that are faster than you. I'll address these one at a time. 1. Phazers: It helps to use protect to help scout, but murphy's law states that Protect won't help you all the time. Walrein is base 65 speed, and with the EVs, they jump you above the base 70 tier of pokemon. Meaning you will roar before Skarmory and Swampert. In my experience, these are the most common phazers. Granted, there are much faster pokemon that can roar... and skarm can invest speed EVs instead of HP/Def... but these all will cause a disadvantage in one form or another. (Speedy pokemon tend to be too fragile to phaze, and putting EVs from Def/HP into Speed just to be a Walrein counter for Skarm seems a bit silly) If worst comes to worst and you predict a roar, neither of them will like a base 120 100% accurate Blizzard as you leave. 2. Double-Hit / Triple-Kick: Ah, the bane of substitutes... normally at least. But there's a problem with Double-Hit. Technician Choice Band Adamant Ambipom deals 76 - 89 x 2 damage to this Walrein, meaning that the most powerful Double-Hit pokemon will NOT break through your substitute. Meaning you will out-stall and 16 turns later Ambipom will die from hail. According to Metalkid's calculator, Adamant Choice-Band 252 Atk Hitmontop Triple Kick will do 32 - 38 damage (avg 35). On the second hit, that becomes 59 - 70 (average 64.5). The third hit will strike for some 30% damage. One little problem here. On the 2nd hit of an Adamant Choice Band 252 Atk Hitmontop... TripleKick still has not broken the sub... at least on the average. After 2 hits, you're only doing 91 to 108 damage. You need to deal 104 damage to break the sub. You're only dealing 99 average with a triangle distribution. (meaning there is a very small chance that you're actually going break this sub) Granted, if you add Choice Band + Technician, Hitmontop will break through on the 3rd hit dealing some 30 to 35% damage. But then you get a free switchin to (ghost pokemon of choice), and Walrein lives to fight another day. Needless to say, under typical circumstance, you will not break this Walrein's substitute. 3.Taunt First of all, you can protect to scout for Taunt, then switch to an appropriate counter while they waste a turn taunting you. Second, the king of taunting pokemon is BulkyGyara, who is 3-hit KOed by Blizzard in hail (cancels out leftovers)... while Bulky Gyara is doing 19.21% - 22.41% with Earthquake while you heal 12% each turn. Thats like a 10 hit KO. Don't even think about waterfall. Stone Edge is a possible 3-hit KO dealing 40.38% - 47.36%.. So if you blizzard on the turn they taunt, you'll be ahead by 1 turn and essentially beat Gyarados. Dragon Dance is only an issue if they start to Stone Edge you. Walrein will ROFL at both earthquake and waterfall. DD-Tyranitar may cause problems, especially STAB Super-effective Stone Edge as well as losing the hail advantage and Blizzard dropping its accuracy rate and increasing his Sp. Defense. However, Surf is a 3-hit KO on the 0/0 def version, so if you have a substitute up you Walrein will be able to dish out damage before he leaves. I wouldn't worry about taunt here. Keep this in mind in Surf vs Blizzard debates. 4. Pokemon who will hit you before you get the substitute up. There are two cases where this matters: * You haven't started the substitute / protect engine yet * A slower pokemon broke your sub before he died from hail / poison / burn / whatever, and the opponent switched in a faster pokemon. All other times, you will be able to infinitely use substitute -> protect -> substitute -> protect till they die. (or you use it for 32 turns and you're out of PP) And even if they're faster, it doesn't matter if they hit you or not. What matters is if they hit you for more than 74% damage. Because once you get that substitute up, they're done for in 16 turns with the hail... unfortunately, Metalkid's calculator just died on me right now. So I won't be doing this section to check for who this Walrein can safely start the cycle with. Regardless, you can see that this Walrein is quite bulky indeed, as its substitutes survive Adamant Choice Band Hitmontop Triple-Kick.... Okay, Damage Calculations for this beast. Keep in mind that you regain 12% health each turn, and can use protect to gain a free 12% health. Garchomp: Choice Band Adamant 252 Earthquake: 50.72% - 59.62%. If you catch him on the switch, you can safely substitute afterwards and start the stall cycle. Choice Band Adamant 252 Outrage: 60.58% - 71.39%. You still can safely get your substitute up and out-stall him. ChainChomp Draco Meteor: 56.97% - 67.07%. ChainChomp Fire Blast: 32.69% - 38.46% Needless to say, all forms of Garchomp are effectively walled. If he uses swords dance, your cycle has begun and he'll die in 16 turns, unable to break the infinite subs. Heracross: Choice Band Heracross Close Combat: 118.03% - 138.70% Choice Scarf Heracross Close Combat: 79.09% - 93.03% Choice Band Heracross Megahorn: 58.89% - 69.47% Choice Band Heracross Stone Edge: 65.63% - 77.16% So obviously, the only problem with Heracross is either GUTS Close Combat or Choice Band Close Combat. Predict the close combat and switch in your ghost pokemon, and fire back with something good. Or, carry Gliscor around to help make Stealth Rocks, counter Heracross and do something to T-Tar. This walrein is Heracross weak. Gyarados Bulky Gyarados + Dragon Dance + Stone Edge: 54.81% - 64.42% Bulky Gyarados + 2 DD + Stone Edge: 72.84% - 85.82% Bulky Gyarados + 3 DD + Stone Edge: 90.87% - 106.97% Lesson? Don't let Gyarados Dragon Dance 3 times while you do nothing. Lol. Even with a Dragon Dance, Gyarados is walled by this Walrein and you can start the subsitute/protect combo, and wait for 16 turns for Gyarados to die. Starmie Walrein's EVs are geared towards the physical side. However, you should know what to do when up against a Starmie... I'm only going to focus on Thunderbolt... Grass Knot is not working correctly in Metalkid's calculator :-( Spinner Set Thunderbolt: 37.50% - 43.99% SpecStar Thunderbolt: 68.99% - 81.01% Expert Belt Starmie Thunderbolt: 55.05% - 64.66% Infernape The flaming monkey returns! Pure Physical Life-Orb Close Combat: 82.69% - 97.36% Pure Physical Life-Orb Stone Edge: 46.15% - 54.33% MixApe Life-Orb Close Combat: 67.55% - 79.57% Electivire Life-Orb 252 Cross Chop: 56.73% - 66.59% Life-Orb 252 Thunder-punch: 64.18% - 75.48% Life-Orb 80 Thunderbolt: 74.04% - 87.02% Needless to say, its the special version of Electivire that you need to worry about. The good news about everything that beats this thing... is that they all follow a very distinct pattern. Close Combat and Electric attacks. Which is why I include Rotom on my team. Just kidding :-p But essentially, you can more or less predict the attack comming, as without STAB they are not going to hurt you enough to prevent you from using a substitute. For example, Cross Chop Electivire just doesn't cut it. Thunderpunch Infernape doesn't cut it, and even Stone Edge Heracross doesn't cut it. 5. The last thing to obviously worry about is weather changers. There really isn't a thing I can say here... aside that Rain Dance doesn't hurt Walrein that badly and is beneficial to Surf at least. (Swift Swim Kabutops Stone Edge raping your hail team aside...) That is a solid thing that you can't really stop aside from putting Abomasnow back into the fray. Again, T-Tar is quite dangerous as it possesses 4 of the possible ways to counter this Walrein... and can execute up to 3 of them at the same time. (Roar, Taunt, Weather Change, and can be faster than Walrein). Aside from that, switch in on Blissey or whatever you can safely counter (Weavile is one of them), roar Blissey away if necessary, and start stalling. Pretty basic strategy. The few other pokemon that has managed to out-stall this guy is... Articuno -- Pressure, Roost, and stalls like a mo-fo as well. Thrives in the hail. Frankly you can't touch this thing at all. Stealth Rocks + roar helps here, but no real direct damage. Scizor -- Roost Scizor is immune to toxic. Not much you can do... ---------------------- Acknowledgments goes to OmegaDonut for recommending roar on this beast, exponentially increasing its usefulness. ---- EDIT: Here is a log of Walrein in action stalling a team out 6-0. I haven't been logging all of my battles and probably want to know about other specifics. 1. Rapid Spinners -- Starmie is countered by any ghost pokemon who knows T-Bolt. That includes Gengar and Frosslass. I also run Pursuit Weavile because I get greedy with killing Starmie. Donphan is killed by Surf / Blizzard, and Hitmontop is also similarly owned by Ghosts who know Psychic (like... Gengar) 2. Roar/Whirlwind keeps getting brought up, but before you do so, please tell me a good roar/whirlwind pokemon faster than Skarmory that at the same time is good at typical phazing duties. Anyway, the log doesn't show any complicated cases like those, but as shown in this post, those situations are thought of already.