should medicham get a revamp? its most recent analysis is quite outdated, going back the aegislash era (pretty sure scarf medicham was mentioned somewhere on that too lol). the meta has changed around medicham, its usage and reason for usage has changed due to the competition if faces with the indroduction of lop and gallade, while getting a new counter in m-sable. sorry if this wasnt good enough reasoning, im super tired lol
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OU Analyses Discussion Thread
- Thread starter Jukain
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I have been testing out Serperior sets, and believe that using him with a timid nature with 252 speed 252 special attack and 4 in special defense, using leaf storm as his primary stab move with giga drain for healing after taking a hit, either hidden power fire or glare to help against scarfers or bulky steel and grass types who otherwise wall serperio, and dragon pulse gives serperior great coverage amongst threats with an assault vest works very well. Serperior is capable of setting up on numerous pokemon such as rotom-w, azumarill. While he OHKO's keldeo, manaphy, slowbro, and starmie with leaf storm or giga drain after a leaf storm. Dragon pulse 2KO's Mega Charizard-X on a swap in and OHKO's after a leaf storm boost. Hidden Power Fire 2KO's walls such as ferrothorn and magnezone who resist his other move while also taking care of other grass types such as celebi. The assault vest allows him to take hits on the special side while getting a leaf storm boost off and the damage can then be healed back by giga drain. If I made any mistakes in these please let me know.
I didn't know where else to bring this up, but I was just looking for the Skarm analysis to see if it had the Custap set cos I wanted to use it for a team and it's OU analysis doesn't appear on the site despite it being done pretty recently.
Isn't there already one? It just got a revamp iirc.
Yeah it was actually finished. Basically what you see on this sub-forum is the WIP and everything gets uploaded to the preliminary pokedex area. So if you don't see something chances are that's the reason why.
I'd like to suggest a few Pokemon get some sets added to their analyses :
Skarmory needs a SpD set and a Custap lead set. The former is a good check to fairies like Diancie and MGardevoir while the latter is a nice suicide lead for offense which fills a couple of defensive niches. Both are pretty good at setting up Spikes in general.
Altaria should have a Cotton Guard DD set, this set has gained a lot of popularity for its ability to manhandle offensive teams that rely on Pokemon like Mega Metagross and Scizor to check it. I think an Agility Set could also be worth putting on the analysis, it has a few noteworthy advantages over DD are that it makes much better use of Fire Blast which offers better coverage than Earthquake overall, outspeeds scarfers like Landorus-T after a boost, and can afford to invest much more in bulk than the DD set which lets it set up much more easily.
Finally, Mega Latias should have a pure defensive set of a STAB, a recovery move, and 2 of Reflect Type, Defog and Thunder Wave, with emphasis on Reflect Type. It's arguably MLatias's best set and works much better as a wall than the CM set thanks to Reflect Type making it less vulnerable to Pursuit.
Skarmory needs a SpD set and a Custap lead set. The former is a good check to fairies like Diancie and MGardevoir while the latter is a nice suicide lead for offense which fills a couple of defensive niches. Both are pretty good at setting up Spikes in general.
Altaria should have a Cotton Guard DD set, this set has gained a lot of popularity for its ability to manhandle offensive teams that rely on Pokemon like Mega Metagross and Scizor to check it. I think an Agility Set could also be worth putting on the analysis, it has a few noteworthy advantages over DD are that it makes much better use of Fire Blast which offers better coverage than Earthquake overall, outspeeds scarfers like Landorus-T after a boost, and can afford to invest much more in bulk than the DD set which lets it set up much more easily.
Finally, Mega Latias should have a pure defensive set of a STAB, a recovery move, and 2 of Reflect Type, Defog and Thunder Wave, with emphasis on Reflect Type. It's arguably MLatias's best set and works much better as a wall than the CM set thanks to Reflect Type making it less vulnerable to Pursuit.
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Excuse me for my belligerence.
Oh yeah, that set was suggested in the most recent Skarm analysis, but was taken off-last minute due to issues with common leads (arguments including Sableye and being only useful against offensive teams). I like it, but a majority of QC hates it iirc
Since when? I'd be willing to test it out again, but it faces a ton of issues in exchange for completely checking physical threats.\
Ehhh. Conflicted. Give a set and I'll consider looking over it too, but I can't see it working too well because Landoge lowers Altaria's Attack anyway and it can't KO much without, say, Double-Edge.
No I mean if you go on the site, it literally doesn't have an analysis at all for OU despite this: http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/skarmory.3531675/
At least I can't see it, the only set there is for Ubers.
At least I can't see it, the only set there is for Ubers.
The current spread on the Ludicolo analysis misses out on a large number of speed benchmarks. This can be fixed by simply changing it to a timid nature (ties with scarfed base 110s). Due to the timid nature, I suggest that Specs is given a stronger mention (i.e. moved from OO to set details) as the power drop from modest to timid is fairly noticeable.
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I think the best way to handle Agility, if it is done at all, would be to go special with it tbh. The ability to lure common checks to the physical set and oblitterate them with Fire Blast or something is always nice, and (at least in theory) a special could make better use of the dual boost to its speed if there is no boost to its attack.
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Actually Cotton Guard + Dragon Dance Altaria is a great set. Teams that rely on pokemon such as CB scizor to revenge kill altaria have a hard time doing so after it gets up one cotton guard, making it very hard for offensive to fight against as they already have a hard time against dd altaria and with cotton guard, they can't even revenge kill it. CG + DD altaria is very effective late game to set up when nothing can beat it anymore, and it just slowly boosts up and kills everything. It can even set up on pokemon such as ferrothorn if it's not running gyro ball. imo Dragon Dance + Cotton Guard Altaria definitely deserves a set.
Ok so I think it's best to just put this here instead of reservation thread since that's more about reserving and less about discussion.
I took the liberty of updating the OP of the reservation list a bit so that it's a bit more up to date. With the exception of the section that shows each user and all the analysis they written everything is mostly there with who completed what by mon at least. With that being said here's what's up for reserve.
-Breloom (Revamp) (BH) - This was apparently reserved but never done. It's up for reserve again.
-Scolipede (Revamp) - Was dropped multiple times and back up for reserve. This primarily includes its hazard lead set, Life Orb cleaner, with its Baton Pass set included as well.
- Skarmory (Specially Defensive) (BH) - Sort of a given but it functions a bit differently than its physical counterpart so it warrants its own set.
- Cresselia (Revamp) - Wasn't done in a timely fashion and needs a big update.
- Seismitoad (BH) - This was dropped so its back up for reserve. I put this as BH because whoever takes this needs to actually know how to utilize it both for its rain sweeper variant and defensive set or at least have a good understanding of how it functions.
- M-Latias (Defensive) (BH) - Read albacores post above. It's one of its primary sets these days and will need a set written up for that. Badgeholder for the same reasons as Seismitoad since we're looking for people familiar with the set and the variants associated with it.
Stuff that was currently discussed here or elsewhere.
- Darkerones in regards to your Conkeldurr comment that's fine, put it under "Conkeldurr (Revamp)"
- Custap Skarm was removed as a set in the original write up by tokyo tom because granted people use it but by no means is it actually a set that warrants its own write up. It's a set that's easily played around and was already put as a choice in Other Options anyways.
- Agility M-Altaria would just be mentioned in OO which can be edited in by OU QC. It doesn't need a set on its own.
- Cotton Guard M-Altaria we'll see after I talk with some of QC (which Im doing now). The substantial difference is that it doesn't run the spreads associated with the other sets however the moveset is very small in change and the lack of coverage and lack of clerical tools is one of the concerns with the set itself. Regardless if it goes through it more than likely will be badgeholder as it's not your typical set.
Edit: Tressed took Scolipede so rip that. Recreant took Breloom as well while I was writing.
If any questions or concerns by all means let us know.
Edit 2: Forgot to put this DO NOT RESERVE STUFF THAT ISN'T UP FOR RESERVATION. We've had a couple of instances of this with people just making the assumption that a revamp is necessary when most times it wasn't and went ahead with an analysis anyways. This hasn't been a common occurrence but it still needed to be addressed.
I took the liberty of updating the OP of the reservation list a bit so that it's a bit more up to date. With the exception of the section that shows each user and all the analysis they written everything is mostly there with who completed what by mon at least. With that being said here's what's up for reserve.
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- Skarmory (Specially Defensive) (BH) - Sort of a given but it functions a bit differently than its physical counterpart so it warrants its own set.
- Cresselia (Revamp) - Wasn't done in a timely fashion and needs a big update.
- Seismitoad (BH) - This was dropped so its back up for reserve. I put this as BH because whoever takes this needs to actually know how to utilize it both for its rain sweeper variant and defensive set or at least have a good understanding of how it functions.
- M-Latias (Defensive) (BH) - Read albacores post above. It's one of its primary sets these days and will need a set written up for that. Badgeholder for the same reasons as Seismitoad since we're looking for people familiar with the set and the variants associated with it.
Stuff that was currently discussed here or elsewhere.
- Darkerones in regards to your Conkeldurr comment that's fine, put it under "Conkeldurr (Revamp)"
- Custap Skarm was removed as a set in the original write up by tokyo tom because granted people use it but by no means is it actually a set that warrants its own write up. It's a set that's easily played around and was already put as a choice in Other Options anyways.
- Agility M-Altaria would just be mentioned in OO which can be edited in by OU QC. It doesn't need a set on its own.
- Cotton Guard M-Altaria we'll see after I talk with some of QC (which Im doing now). The substantial difference is that it doesn't run the spreads associated with the other sets however the moveset is very small in change and the lack of coverage and lack of clerical tools is one of the concerns with the set itself. Regardless if it goes through it more than likely will be badgeholder as it's not your typical set.
Edit: Tressed took Scolipede so rip that. Recreant took Breloom as well while I was writing.
If any questions or concerns by all means let us know.
Edit 2: Forgot to put this DO NOT RESERVE STUFF THAT ISN'T UP FOR RESERVATION. We've had a couple of instances of this with people just making the assumption that a revamp is necessary when most times it wasn't and went ahead with an analysis anyways. This hasn't been a common occurrence but it still needed to be addressed.
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I was working on a Reuniclus entry for my checks thread, and I noticed this on its analysis page.
Bolded part should be removed because of Shell Armor.
Not sure if this is the right place to ask for this but if I wanted to contribute to the analyses how exactly would I do that. Like if I wanted to make analysis for a pokemon how would I go about that and how if I want to give feedback on an analysis for a pokemon can I just comment on the thread?
If you just want to provide feedback, then yeah, you'd post in the Pokemon's analysis thread. If you want to write one yourself, then you need to post in the index thread to reserve whatever Pokemon/set you're writing for. For the most part, only Pokemon listed in the "Unreserved" section of the OP are available for analyses. However, if you want to write an analysis for something not already listed in the OP (usually a Pokemon without an analysis, a single set write-up, or a revamp), you can make a case for it in the index thread and see if QC gives you the green light. Be sure to provide ample reasoning as to why that Pokemon/set deserves an analysis or revamp, and provide a couple of good quality replays to demonstrate the Pokemon's/set's effectiveness if at all possible.
Hope that helps!
I think that Mega Pidgeot should have a revamp. At the moment, the only existing set for the analysis is the All-out Attacker set, however the stallbreaker set of Work Up / Refresh / Roost / Hurricane definitely is viable enough to get an analysis in my opinion. Also, the checks and counters of the original set could be changed as well, because Work Up Mega Pidgeot destroys Chansey/Blissey and beats Heatran as well. If it's eligible, I'd like to do it please :D
I think Hazard-stacking Scolipede should have its own set. Scolipede has the distinction of being one of the only offensive Toxic Spikers, the only other being Dragalge who is much slower and less of an easy fit on HO.
I'd also have Toxic Spikes be the main slash on the 4th slot of Tentacruel as opposed to just an OO mention, but just a simple edit should fix that, we obviously don't need to revamp the whole analysis.
Maybe a revamp for Infernape? Gunk Shot changes a lot of things for it, and Mixed should have Fire Blast or Flare Blitz / CC / Gunk Shot / GK as main slashes. I'd argue Thunder Punch isn't very good on Mixed anymore, and Mach Punch is dubious at best (though HP Ice still probably deserves a slash for Tankchomp/Gliscor). EV spread probably needs to be updated too. SD probably needs an OO mention or even its own set, possibly NP too though I haven't tried it out so I have no idea if it's actually good.
I'd also have Toxic Spikes be the main slash on the 4th slot of Tentacruel as opposed to just an OO mention, but just a simple edit should fix that, we obviously don't need to revamp the whole analysis.
Maybe a revamp for Infernape? Gunk Shot changes a lot of things for it, and Mixed should have Fire Blast or Flare Blitz / CC / Gunk Shot / GK as main slashes. I'd argue Thunder Punch isn't very good on Mixed anymore, and Mach Punch is dubious at best (though HP Ice still probably deserves a slash for Tankchomp/Gliscor). EV spread probably needs to be updated too. SD probably needs an OO mention or even its own set, possibly NP too though I haven't tried it out so I have no idea if it's actually good.
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Sure
I already replied to you in VM but for transparency sake for everyone here and relevant QC members reading this I said no to this. The basic concept of Mega Pidgeot actually doesn't change other than providing a boosting and self clerical move. It doesn't change the grand scheme of how Mega Pidgeot functions and this can simply be editted through CMS when myself or aim has the time do so.
I'm not gonna approve of a separate set for TSpikes / 3 attacks Scoli because that can be delegated to its own mention in the cleaner section in the current write up. I also think it's a bit subpar in practice because unlike Dragalge it doesn't force a whole lot of switch ins and defensive utility that Dragalge provides, which is why the TSpikes / 3 attacks set is successful in the first place.
Make the comment on Tentacruel analysis that is being worked up right now since that's relevant and something I can agree with to an extent.
If you want to do Infernape revamp go for it, it needs one anyways. This is assuming you meet the criteria of reservation limit, pretty sure you're ok with this Albacore, but if not you can drop whatever else you're working on to focus on this and have someone else do it.
Sure I'll update reserve in a bit.
Some other things from reading through the comments. QC decided to not do a Cotton Guard M-Altaria set as it falls under the premise of the Defensive Dragon Dance set. Once again in spare time this can edited to reflect that and or we'll approve the set at a later point in time. It was a craze thing, and I want to avoid putting sets down for the sake of being a craze and getting hype.
Last thing I need to mention. More than likely I'm not going to, at least myself aim can really do whatever he feels fit as well in terms of reserves, going to approve entire new analysis or revamps for stuff that isn't high priority or even relevant to a high degree in the meta from this point on. There are some important analysis in the works that I want to focus on first before considering some of these lesser used mons that really don't have a high necessity to be finished in comparison to stuff that's been held off for far too long. If you have a small subjective change by all means address them here so we're aware but just know if you ask me to revamp something like say, magneton, or want to do some set addition that isn't a very big concern I'm more than likely not going to approve and or take it into account at this point in time. Thanks.
Edit: Also read TRC's thread in the OU analysis section on "Announcement for Writers" in terms of our new layout that needs to be done for skeletons. It's important that any current analysis and or future analysis being written follows this format correctly for implementation into the dex. Once again thanks.
Thundurus really needs an ORAS update, his current analysis is a bit outdated.
Hippodown must have a SpD set somewhere. He checks/counters a so large portion of the meta : Special Mega Altaria (with Toxic), Mega Diancie, Gengar, Offensive Heatran, Lati@s, Thundurus, Tornadus-T, Mega Alakazam, LO Alakazam, Mega Charizard Y, Mega Latias (with Toxic), Mega Manectric, Specs Raikou, Volcarona, Hydreigon, Magnezone, Tentacruel... and his natural physical bulk allows him to check some threats on the physical side.
Hippodown must have a SpD set somewhere. He checks/counters a so large portion of the meta : Special Mega Altaria (with Toxic), Mega Diancie, Gengar, Offensive Heatran, Lati@s, Thundurus, Tornadus-T, Mega Alakazam, LO Alakazam, Mega Charizard Y, Mega Latias (with Toxic), Mega Manectric, Specs Raikou, Volcarona, Hydreigon, Magnezone, Tentacruel... and his natural physical bulk allows him to check some threats on the physical side.