vonFiedler I don't get how you want to look into the Cancerous wagon yesterday but anything revealed by the Haunted Diamond wagon "shouldn't mean anything"? Please explain. I think a mafia flip is way more revealing than a town flip and things like targets and buddiers of HD should be looked into.
Please actually read my posts before you respond to them.These are all WIFOM arguments, so I don't want to see people getting their knickers in a twist to defend themselves. They are merely possibilities that prove that "X voted for Y, they must be town" is no substitute for thorough and careful analysis of behavioral patterns.
I don't think you could be Courier, I think that you are Courier. But BT may be right and that might not matter to us at all. I don't know. I don't even know if you should come clean and explain how Courier works if you are it.I mean yeah I could be the Courier just like anyone else could be the Courier? Like I said, I just threw the scenario of why they killed me as a possibility, and was recently proven wrong about it. Stop focusing on something so trivial. Nothing to really respond to in your hypothetical.
So lemme get this straight; a bunch of people throughout the day get on the poor Pokeguy lynch, including you and HD, but Fate did too so there must be a connection? And he unvoted to stifle a bandwagon, and that's bad suddenly? Cause that's actually a pretty fucking good reason for a villager to unvote.I've said probably five times now that the mistake I made doesn't mean the entire connection was moot, especially when the link continues into Day 2. For the record here is what ButteredToast said regarding the Fate and HD connection:
No, once again, you might be not be anti-village or pro-village because you are likely the Courier. Who else did you think I was talking about? Is there someone else who has been tunneling on Fate?Lol at this. By this logic everyone in the game should be ignored because they too might not be anti-village and might not be pro-village.
You don't learn at all do you? Of course soft claiming didn't give him a free pass. But we didn't lynch him because of that, we lynched him because he was acting scummy. Your evidence against Fate is and has always been shit. It's bad enough that the mafia can narrow down their night actions now that he has soft claimed, we don't need you to keep rolefishing. Maybe it makes more sense when you're a Neutral, but for town it's shit.Fatecrashers should claim now there's no reason not to. If anything, HD's flip should prove how important it is that softclaims don't give someone a free pass. Fate seems more willing to follow through than HD but should still claim regardless.
Quoting this so everyone knows von was wrong when the game is over. :)vonFiedler said:I don't think you could be Courier, I think that you are Courier.
This is really interesting, because he says this in a way that indicates he already knows that Haunted Diamond is scum.wouldn't it be fun if this led to me getting lynched
unvote
vote haunted diamond
Snipped the unimportant parts. Note how he's setting up to vote HD, yet doesn't want to immediately support it. He wants to make sure we know that his suspicions are separate from Spiffy's, yet he wants to snipe at Spiffy's reads. This looks like scum trying to manipulate the game state.Oh, interesting. Haunted Shadow is now your number 1 scum read? But I thought...
Nice to see how much you were reading into and thinking about my defense earlier!
Anyway, I'm sorta tempted to join you on the HS lynch. I'd expressed earlier that I was displeased with him (which is what made you say the above remark) so a bit of pressure couldn't hurt. Though at the same time sunny HAS been pressured and still hasn't done shit. He's still my top scum read, soooooooo I'm gonna keep voting for him n_n.
Spiffy, why have you ranked sunny as the 5th most likely town? Honestly it seems like it's there just to take a jab at me, because your comments for the likes of ButteredToast and Pokeguy are a lot better than what you said about sunny. Also confused as to why they are lower than von, who was fairly scummy in your eyes (you were literally talking about how fighting is a useful scum tactic yesterday). I'd like a little more explanation with your reads please.
Haunted Diamond ~ Has kept contribution to a minimum, focusing on key points of discussion and not branching out his opinions. He half-heartedly tunneled Jalmont for most of Day 1 (but not too much so as to not draw masses of attention to himself) and then, like Spiffy pointed out, randomly hopped on the Cancerous bw to try and lynch him. I'd definitely be OK with his lynch today, and I expressed a want for him to do more before Spiffy posted the read, so this isn't copying him :v.
IDK, I think this post is town. I'm not sure what the game plan is here if they're both scumpartners.i could go for either haunted diamond or cancerous, my switch to haunted diamond was a kneejerk reaction to being lumped in with him as best potential mafia candidates
after thinking about it, if haunted diamond turns out village then well shit, and if he turns out mafia it hardly cleans me, i know i'm village but i can't exactly convince you with just that statement, so on balance if you examine it objectively i think haunted diamond has greater odds of being mafia than me and lynching him is a good course for the village to take
aaaaagh this looks scum. I can't tell with this guy.no need to elaborate, i know what you mean, and yeah having someone like spiffy or von clarifying their reasoning [on Haunted Diamond] would be nice
Although reading a bit further in the past, I came across this gem:Lol at everyone crucifying me for wanting Haunted Diamond to claim his role. “Detrimental to the town” my ass. ^_^
Huh.Plus now that you've softclaimed power role I'm obviously not gonna vote for you. This doesn't mean that I 100% believe you.
Here's another instance where Fatecrashers makes a statement that hints he knows more about the setup than everyone else does. Most of this is fluffy, but note he never once mentions a thought of the announcer being town in this post. He's probably scum that either knows the announcer is scum or is trying to muddy the waters.as for haunted's posting restriction, it seems to be a deliberate effort to associate him with the announcer role. from what i've seen of the announcements so far, the announcer role couldn't possibly be described as a power role in this game, subjective to haunted's interpretation of course, so i don't think announcer is haunted's true role. so why did the mafia stick him with that posting restriction? random trolling? or do they really suspect him of being the announcer after seeing the announcement? does the restriction actually prevent him from posting his night results (assuming he has any) or maybe the mafia put a restriction on one of their own to make them look village?
Announcer is almost certainly town.I don't know! Ask the mafia??
From what I assume post restrictor must be a mafia role, unless we have a troll town...
Edit:More Cowbell I'm just gonna edit the text into my post every time I forget it...
"Hi everybody! I'm the village announcer! While I'm sad to see the Safeguard go, judging by how the day went, it could so easily have been me instead, so here's hoping we don't repeat the same mistakes tomorrow!"
Okay, WHOA. This statement completely destroys any towncred he got up to this point. Town don't play towards a specific end game goal, no matter what role they pick up. There's way too much uncertainty and potential for plans to go wrong for it to be remotely feasible. Scum have to play for a specific end goal because they have to plan to get mislynches all the way to the end of the game. If anything, this is a scumtell.Von, I have very limited mafia experience but that doesn't mean I do not understand high level strategies and reasoning. I have caught on to some things of how Spiffy is playing and I am certain that he is playing with a specific end game goal in mind. I think I get his motives and where he is going with his actions. And I find it ingenious and am in support of taking it to it's conclusion. If he does not pick up the argument I damn well might just because of the possible information gained from it.
I don't see any questions :/sunny004 it's frustrating that you can take five minutes out of your busy schedule to ask for a sub and can't even answer everyone's questions about you. Please do so.
Okay?Aimianki, I find it extremely funny how you have been riding me most of the game about how I "sound" yet you really haven't done much in the way of contributing or helping. In fact, you were were you on this whole Haunted Diamond thing because nearest my memory serves, you were pretty critical of me for it.
You started this game pretty good and I was impressed with your logic and reasoning. More and more as the game goes on I kind of see how little you actually know and how flawed your reasoning is. Especially when you come at me with more baseless accusations from way back in early day two.
Again, like Celever, you were one of the biggest obstacles to getting Haunted Diamond lynched yesterday. I'm still not sure if you were legitimately concerned or trying to actively cause it to not go through. But this "review" is pretty late to the party and I'm not sure what you're all trying to accomplish with it.
That doesn't look like setting up to vote HD at all to me. Could you provide some context? Was this before or after everyone got all up in his ass about not claiming? Post numbers mean nothing people!Okay, time for a wall. I'm probably never going to wall again in the thread after this.
First, the Haunted Diamond wagon 'starts' with Spiffy's reads list in #340. Immediately after is this gem:
This is really interesting, because he says this in a way that indicates he already knows that Haunted Diamond is scum.
Mental note to check for ButteredToffee's posts to Spiffy as the latter gets wagoned up; if he starts cooling down towards that slot, then this (#342) was likely a buddying attempt.
Celever's #344 is really bad with an HD scumflip; look at this:
Snipped the unimportant parts. Note how he's setting up to vote HD, yet doesn't want to immediately support it. He wants to make sure we know that his suspicions are separate from Spiffy's, yet he wants to snipe at Spiffy's reads. This looks like scum trying to manipulate the game state.
Pokeguy looks pretty town for #345. It doesn't look like a bus vote.
IDK, I think this post is town. I'm not sure what the game plan is here if they're both scumpartners.
Aaaaaand rssp1 starts white-knighting HD in posts 368/369. Not indicative by itself, but interesting to note that there has been almost universal support for HD-scum out of the several people that had posted on it. If he buckles later, this is probably scum.
aaaaagh this looks scum. I can't tell with this guy.
One thing to note is that Fate ends up unvoting the primary counterwagon to HD in #386. This indicates town.
I don't believe for a second that Spiffy is town for trying to get HD to claim his power role.
Scum are more interested in finding power role I already went into why that's a proscum stance, and the fact that Spiffy started the day phase with this skeeves me out.
Although reading a bit further in the past, I came across this gem:
Huh.
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Mental note for day 2: Anyone who starts the day trying to pass off HD as town for the post restriction is scum and the announcer is therefore most likely scum.
Here's another instance where Fatecrashers makes a statement that hints he knows more about the setup than everyone else does. Most of this is fluffy, but note he never once mentions a thought of the announcer being town in this post. He's probably scum that either knows the announcer is scum or is trying to muddy the waters.
Announcer is almost certainly town.
Celever pushes HD in #581 on shockingly small stuff. Scum are much more likely to pick up on the little scumtells than town are; he also looks incredibly confident in parts and almost indecisive in other parts of that post, all the way down to saying that he's just a feasible lynch after saying before that it's obvious he was coached. He then follows it up with a statement that Sunny's a good lynch for not being around. The backing off of #612 fits into this pretty well; I especially don't like how he's waiting for Spiffy to add to it before dropping it completely.
And now Spiffy is voting Haunted Diamond entirely for not claiming his power role. Good god. I'm not buying that the 'not voting for soft claiming a power role is for day 1 only' defense because that was used as a reason to do the exact opposite.
Celever #618: Eh. I'd think town would have made that connection earlier on when it was being discussed, not after the discussion was virtually closed, especially for someone you already think is scum.
Okay, WHOA. This statement completely destroys any towncred he got up to this point. Town don't play towards a specific end game goal, no matter what role they pick up. There's way too much uncertainty and potential for plans to go wrong for it to be remotely feasible. Scum have to play for a specific end goal because they have to plan to get mislynches all the way to the end of the game. If anything, this is a scumtell.
If Spiffy or ButteredToast ever flip scum, the other should be flipped ASAP.
Jalmont's #646-647 is scumlean. Muddying the waters and completely ignoring the conversation on flipped scum doesn't look great for him.
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I'm stopping at the end of page 26 for right now.
TL;DR:
1. Celever and Spiffy both look a lot worse with an HD scumflip. One thing of note is that they're very very unlikely scum with each other.
2. If Spiffy is scum, ButteredToast is his partner.
3. Fatecrashers and Jalmont are scumleans, Fatecrashers moreso.
4. Pokeguy and VonFiedler are well within town range.
Anwer right now please. You were viewing the thead 50 minutes ago, Jalmont posted the above about 3 hours ago.sunny004 who do you think is mafia and why (name at least one person and provide reasoning as to your choice)
how do you feel about haunted diamond's lynch and its implications (regarding, how did it change/or not change your view on certain players)
do you think spiffy is the courier and why? should we even care about who the courier is?
what is your opinion on lynching fate? do you think he is mafia? rehash previous arguments if you have to provide more than a "yes we should lynch him" type of answer
who are your top 3 mafia reads and give thorough reasoning (min. 5-6 sentences)
what is your opinion on user: mithril (please individually view his posts and tell us what you think about him)
What is your obsession with Pokeguy? Holy shit is the courier a politician or something? Pokeguy is simply apathetic, and it is really obvious. Notice how no one else is pressuring him? If you were to make a case on him I have no doubt in my mind that the case would be "didn't sure his thoughts on x and y" or other bullshit to do with inactivity. Not only this, but you have also DEFENDED sunny saying that Pokeguy should be lynched instead, giving no more reasoning than "I get scummier vibes from Pokeguy", no evidence provided.PokeguyNXB should answer those too ^^^^^^
In which case that's a pretty big back pedal.Lol Celever I have stated at the start of this day that I think Pokeguy is pretty clean because of HD's flip.
I want to hear where Pokeguy's head is at maybe?????!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!? How dare I try to get him talking!!111!1!!!!1111!!!!
How does Pokeguy go from "never contributes so he must be scummy" to "HD's biggest naysayer"? It wouldn't surprise me, given the ridiculous claims against him, if he put his vote in with another party, but I wouldn't even be mad if you gave yourself the most credit for HD's lynch. To suggest that Pokeguy said more than you, me, and BT is odd.Yeah you're right changing my opinion about someone after their biggest naysayer flips mafia is unacceptable.
It should be fairly clear that you aren't mafia. Mind you bussing HD might have just been wise, and we don't even really know that you're a BPV at all (it's not like if their target was BG'd that anyone but mafia would know). But it seems fairly clear. And yet, you have not once behaved in a fashion that really shows a lot of concern for the well-being of the village. Everything about your actions is inflexible, tunnelly, and not concerned with facts. Not to mention the rolefishing. It just doesn't seem like you give a fuck.And as cute as it is that you all think I'm Courier it does no one any favors to take that as fact based off of von's baseless conjecture.
I said that HD was Pokeguy's biggest naysayer. As in, Haunted Diamond was out for Pokeguy's blood for the majority of the day. That is my basis for thinking he is not mafia in the first place.vonFiedler said:How does Pokeguy go from "never contributes so he must be scummy" to "HD's biggest naysayer"? It wouldn't surprise me, given the ridiculous claims against him, if he put his vote in with another party, but I wouldn't even be mad if you gave yourself the most credit for HD's lynch. To suggest that Pokeguy said more than you, me, and BT is odd.
Inflexible? Please provide an example because I don't really know what that can mean in the context of this game. Is this different from "tunnelly"? If not...vonFiedler said:Everything about your actions is inflexible, tunnelly and not concerned with facts.
Actually this argument seems fair for now as it's stupid to think the Courier can be deduced solely because of how they act (neutrals and villagers would probably act really similar in many situations), and this is the closest thing to proof that's available. But like I said it's really not great to assume you've got the Courier pegged and not consider other options when it's time to deal with the issue (if we even have to "deal" with the Courier).vonFiedler said:And how's this for basing? The mafia rolecop thought you were Courier and gave no explanation as to why.
Maybe it really does no one any favors to assume you're the Courier, but the argument holds water.
I admitted to tunneling on one occasion, against you, and maybe that was a bit liberal as I did change my vote to HD. You on other hand go after people and keep going after them no matter how many people point out problems with your arguments. There's zero reason for a villager to do this. It is amateur at best.Inflexible? Please provide an example because I don't really know what that can mean in the context of this game. Is this different from "tunnelly"? If not...
I fully admit to being "tunnelly" (assuming you mean singling someone out and aggressively pursuing them) and have explained why I think this is helpful. You have admitted to being "tunnelly" as well.
Again, you can read literally any post I made responding to you for the bulk of Day 2. You can pretend they don't exist, but if you're really a villager then this seriously seems like a personal problem on your part at this point.Please, enlighten me as to what "facts" that I haven't considered. The only facts we have are the dead players' alignments, and I have always adjusted my reads on people based on these facts.
Which leads us to this thing that you've completely manufactured and built off of in regards to Fate. "Okay guys, I might have been TOTALLY wrong about them on day 1, but HD put a self-preservation vote on Pokeguy after Fate stopped voting him out of the totally townie concern over a bandwagon, and that somehow retroactively makes me not wrong about day 1". Well now we know that you're not the inspector, which is the only thing that might have explained such behavior. It's just a bit ridiculous.Spiffy might not take all the time in the world to research specific things and goes off memory in his arguments,
I don't think that Von is wrong in the points he is making.
Von doesn't seem scummier/baseless and Spiffy seems slightly more ill prepared in his arguments (meaning I should probably fact check before I throw my name in with his thoughts)
I was checking the thread right before I went to bed (Close to midnight my time), sleep IS a thing.sunny004:
Anwer right now please. You were viewing the thead 50 minutes ago, Jalmont posted the above about 3 hours ago.
who are your top 3 mafia reads and give thorough reasoning (min. 5-6 sentences)Here he votes for PokeguyNXB without explanation, completely contradicting his early sentiments about Pokeguy being a waste of a vote/only the default option. He also gives no reasoning for voting this way. Keep in mind that he did this almost immediately after von and Mithril voted for Haunted Diamond, when it was apparent that the HD wagon was picking up steam. Looks like an attempt to save his scumbuddy to me.