Follow along with the video below to see how to install our site as a web app on your home screen.
Note: This feature may not be available in some browsers.
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
So basically this fatty likes to ruin teams.Selfdestruct any deoxys/politoed then bring your own weather,etc.Counter returns those outrages, U-turns and close combats thanks to focus sash.Yawn is the butter of this bread of mindgames,watch your opponents feel sleepy when they thought you would explode or be setup fodder.And,protect couples very good with yawn,and is good for scouting.
Pros:Annoying as fuck to fight against.Could take an important member with selfdestruct/counter or disable it with sleep.
Cons:Lacks good team synergy,except for hazards+yawn
@rby94, I run that exact same set except with Scarf, no Roost, and DD replaced with either Draco Meteor or Hydro Pump. I use it to try to revenge D-Nites that have Multiscale broken. Has about a 50% success rate though. Then again, I am not the most experienced, so I lose a whole lot more than I win :(
I think this is one of the more underrated sets, usually foregone for the much more popular set-up dragon in Offensive DD Dragonite (which is also easier to set-up) or even Double Dance Terrakion.
Sure Dragonite is easier to set-up, but Haxorus does hit harder with a Dragon Dance under its belt (don't even ask about what happens when it gets a Swords Dance). Haxorus also has a method of getting past both Offensive and Stall teams respectively, something Dragonite struggles to do (it beats offensive teams, but struggles against something like Quagsire on stall, which Haxorus can blast through thanks to Mold Breaker cancelling out Unaware).
As for Terrakion, the beast has a double dance set because it doesn't need the coverage moves of other moves, likewise Haxorus also really only needs Outrage and Earthquake (albeit not being STAB like Stone Edge or Close Combat) which only Skarmory resists IMO (other team mates can help out). Also, lets not forget that sexy 147 atk stat as opposed to 129, and of course the surprise factor is also a plus, because most Haxorus are CB or Scarf from what I've seen, and isn't CCAT a way to show how powerful certain underrated threats are? Also if we were to build around him he could either be the late game cleaner which errybody supports or the wall breaker giving other attackers to clean.
As for the set itself, Dragon Dance is there to break through Offensive teams, whereas Swords Dance is there to muscle through Stall and defensive teams in general. If someone makes the mistake of letting you use both set-up moves one after another due to a mispredict or something, it's usually game. Outrage is obvious and destroys anything which doesn't resist, while Earthquake hits Levitating / non- Levitating Steel types (I think mold breaker also goes through Heatran's Air Balloon, not sure). The EV spread and nature is straightforward, but there are bulkier spreads such as 120 HP / 252 Atk / 136 Spe, but Haxorus isn't that bulky to begin with so going all out is best. Lum Berry allows you to get off a boost on status users such as Rotom-W or Jellicent, or anything else with only a status move as the only option against Haxorus, and you also get one round of Outrage without confusion. There's also Draco Plate to give Outrage that oomph which will be your main attack, and there's no drawback of losing 10% of your health. Life Orb boosts all of your moves while putting Haxorus on a timer (a short timer if there's Sandstorm or Hail). Mold Breaker can ensure you get past Bronzong and Gengar / Rotom-W without locking yourself in, whereas Rivalry is a risky approach, but if they are the same gender as Haxorus, they will go down even if they resist (i.e. Skarmory iirc)
Another stupidly powerful monster which doesn't get enough love. CB + Sheer Force sends shivers down any Pokemon's spine, and if you predict correctly you will most certainly take out 2-4 'mons, hell even if you mispredict certain resists WILL get OHKOed. For example, Rotom-W. After Stealth Rock you stand a good chance to OHKO the bastard. I'll edit in some calculations later on as I have to go soon, but definitely take this asshole into consideration as taking out some of the major Physical Walls in the game is a plus. Last round I'd undergo this thing for CB Ape for the sole reason of Excadrill, but now I almost always go with this guy because that attack stat is too good to pass up, even though Darmanitan isn't lightning fast as say Infernape, but I've always chosen power over speed, just personal preference. IF we were to build around this guy, he wouldn't be the sweeper but the wall breaker which woulda blasted some huge holes in the opposition and let tons of other sweepers break through.
EDIT: Calcs have arrived
** All these calculations assume NO WEATHER
Flare Blitz vs 4 HP / 0 Def Adamant Dragonite (w/o Multiscale): 71.2% - 83.9%
Flare Blitz vs 112 HP / 0 Def Rotom-W: 77.3% - 91.4%
Flare Blitz vs 252 HP / 176 Def Gliscor: 81.4% - 96%
Flare Blitz vs 4 HP / 0 Def Latios: 88.1% - 103.6%
Flare Blitz vs 252 HP / 0 Def Sassy Tyranitar: 50.5% - 59.4%
Flare Blitz vs 252 HP / 0 SpD Latias: 66.5% - 78.3%
Flare Blitz vs 0 HP / 0 Def Terrakion: 74.7% - 88%
Flare Blitz vs 248 HP / 216 Def Jellicent: 51.4% - 60.3%
Flare Blitz vs (+1 Def) 120 HP / 0 Def Conkeldurr: 81.1% - 95.5%
lol...
Flare Blitz vs 252 HP / 88 Def Ferrothorn: 337.5% - 398.9%
So in conclusion, if this is the amount of damage the common Fire- resistant switch-ins (also the physically bulky Gliscor and +1 Def Conkeldurr) take from Flare Blitz, you can imagine how much anything not resistant to Flare Blitz will take. Also, with Stealth Rock most of these resists have a good chance of being OHKOed if they even attempt to switch-in.
Flare Blitz is Darma's strongest move and will hit anything hard (2HKOes Jellicent even lol) without sun support (with sun support a lot of those 2HKOes against resists turn into OHKOes). Rock Slide is there to ensure Dragonite or Gyarados can't switch in for free, and U-turn is there for scouting and finding out what your opponent's main switch-in to darma is, and you can nail them next time. Earthquake and Superpower for Heatran and Tyranitar, Earthquake doesn't lower your attack and defense, whereas Superpower helps you get through tran's Air Balloon. There's other options for the attacks as well, but these are the best, oh and Life Orb can also be used; you won't be hitting as hard as the CB but it does make king kong over here more versatile, which is great due to the coverage of his attacks, so pretty much anything will be hit super effectively.
DDMence is good, but I prefer it to have Lum Berry for convenience's sake. This sort of makes Outrage compulsory since you're not getting the damage boost from LO, but Lum still cures the related confusion from Outrage.
There are loads of choices for this. While Metagross is getting a lot of hype, I really don't see the appeal of it. I'd like to nominate a somewhat forgotten Dragon: Salamence. And I'd like to suggest a set not on the analysis.
Salamence has been overshadowed by its older brother, Dragonite. Even now it is middling in the OU statistics, though it has the means to succeed: a 135 attack stat and a 110 special attack stat, combined with a decent speed and Dragon Dance? Oh yes. I'd like to propose a mixed set:
216 Sp.Atk EVs hit a bonus point. With one DD, this Salamence outspeeds Accelgor. The Atk EVs are here to buff up Outrage. This set is designed to dent things with powerful special attacks, then come in on something, set up a DD, and wreck its counters with a mix of attacks. It is a great late game seeper, and it can do real damage with Draco Meteor before that, too.
Of course, this is entirely walled by Heatran, so it is important to have a Water teammate. Rotom-W and Suicune work well.
All of these pokemon are really cool, but one I want to see, and which hasn't appeared much at all in OU at all is Mamoswine. It was unable to make the OU cut but it is simply extremely powerful, and is just so good.
Mamoswine (M) @ Life Orb
Trait: Snow Cloak
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Earthquake
- Ice Shard
- Icicle Spear/Icicle Crash
- Stone Edge
Icicle spear is cool, SubDD Dragonite is everywhere :/. Earthquake provides a strong STAB move and ice shard can pick off weakened foes. The last slot is mostly filler, stone edge is used to obtain edgequake coverage.
A fire type is recommended to be used alongside this since Ferrothorn is only 3HKO'd.
I'm definetly gonna vote for Shell Smash Cloyster. Personally I've never used it before, but the metagame is very kind towards it right now due to the banning of Thundurus' priority TWave and the revenge-killing Excadrill.
I vote for non-lead Machamp. 100% confusion, priority, no-miss Stone Edge, and Ice Punch for coverage. It has good enough bulk to take a few hits, and few Pokemon want to stay in and get D-Punched. Granted, a never missing WOW for the foe is bad, but you can always predict it and send your Sweeper Heatran. A perfect Terrakion counter and can take a D-Nite without Hurricane and cripple it with Ice Punch if Multiscale is broken.
haha super mario bro beat me twice and dropped me from the 1300s with that badass mawile coming in to tank my cb haxorus's outrage.
anyways I would like to support cloyster; however a change of Evs are a must.
use this set. If you are wondering why, this set KOs most physical walls like Skarm that come in on Cloyster, and more importantly outspeeds scarfed base 108s after a SS.
Cloyster @ Life Orb
Naive
252 Attack, 244 Speed, 12 Sp.Atk
-Shell Smash
-Icicle Spear
-Rock Blast
-Hydro Pump
I hate missing as much as the next person, but Hydro Pump is needed because iwth LO it can KO stuff like Skarm; Surf just doesn't pack enough power. Even with a defence drop, Scizor's bullet punch does ~40-50% damage
posting here only to say i support Pocket's metagross idea and would love to see how the community would build a team around it. if i had to pick a set then i would pick the agility one because i was a never a fan of choice items, but i can see CB gross working because of the massive firepower he offers.
I know that you have sort of dismissed this already, but having made teams aeound nidoking in both uu and ou, I have a few ideas. in ou, I built a team utilizing parashuffling dragonite, twaving rotomw as well as tailwind scizor , as with all the boosts that he has got this gen the only thing holding him back from being a complete boss is his lacklustre speed, so I tryed to fix this. In uu, I used quiverpassing and smashpass, which allow him to be a true beast, as well as gorebyss/huntail (i used huntail as he is able to go mixed) being able to remove the one pokemon that resists all of nidoks moves (bar sludge wave) rotomh. I would also love to ssee offensive cm cune get some usage , but I don't think it would be very effecrive in the current meta with ferrocent being very common.
I'm certainly in support of an offensive team, but I think we should run Anti-Weather Offense. One member I think would be awesome on a team such as that would be this:
Nidoking@ Life Orb
Timid and Sheer Force
EV's: 4 Def/252 SAtk/252 Spd
-Earth Power
-Thunderbolt
-Ice Beam
-Fire Blast/Flamethrower
This guy can hit any weather user for SE damage, and paired with a smart BP Conkeldurr, you have a mixed offensive core that could work fantastically, and a shock for your opponent as they get swept. Rotom-H is the only pokemon to resist every one of Nidoking's moves, and a rock type could easily take care of that. Nidoking should really be OU, too, in my opinion. Nidoking also can take care of any dragon bar Multiscale D-Nite that hasn't had Multiscale broken with a Scarf and Ice Beam. He can also run Specs for some awesome extra power.
I'd like to throw a bit of support behind FatMence. I attempted to create a team with him as part of a defensive core some time ago and it never really took off, although it was still effective; I'd be interested to see what the community can come up with.
hail is definitely the most under appreciated weather condition atm, but a well built hail team can really do a number on the metagame. furthermore, kyurem has the offensive stats and bulk to be a real threat, it just needs the right support. i feel this ccat would provide an ideal opportunity to really explore the capabilities of kyurem under the right conditions. STAB blizzard in hail with a base 125 spa is an incredible asset, and that's not even mentioning that kyurem can put up 101 subs that shield it from any untimely status and help it scout switches.
hail is definitely the most under appreciated weather condition atm, but a well built hail team can really do a number on the metagame. furthermore, kyurem has the offensive stats and bulk to be a real threat, it just needs the right support. i feel this ccat would provide an ideal opportunity to really explore the capabilities of kyurem under the right conditions. STAB blizzard in hail with a base 125 spa is an incredible asset, and that's not even mentioning that kyurem can put up 101 subs that shield it from any untimely status and help it scout switches.
Offering my support for Kyurem, but not that particular set. I'd prefer a specs or Scarf set since the power provided by Specs lets it 2KO stuff like Scizor with freaking Ice Beam and Scarf just lets it crap on everything slower than it with Blizzard and its 30% freeze rate.
As my nomination, I'd like to nominate that the whole team be qualified to be entered in the Diversity Cup. That means 2 OUs, 2 UUs, an RU, and an NU.
Since some crazy stuff like Prankster Sableye and Volbeat, Magic Guard Alakazam, and Gorebyss and Venemoth (Smash/QuiverPass) are in NU, itll probably be more difficult to find an RU to use than an NU.
As my nomination, I'd like to nominate that the whole team be qualified to be entered in the Diversity Cup. That means 2 OUs, 2 UUs, an RU, and an NU.
Since some crazy stuff like Prankster Sableye and Volbeat, Magic Guard Alakazam, and Gorebyss and Venemoth (Smash/QuiverPass) are in NU, itll probably be more difficult to find an RU to use than an NU.
@ Life Orb
ability: Reckless
nature: Jolly
evs: 252atk/4def/252spe
- Brave Bird
- Close Combat
- Return
- Roost/Quick Attack
I believe Staraptor has the potential to do major damage in the metagame,nearly nothing can switch in without getting maimed by the right move. Solid switch ins include(off the top of my head) Jirachi, Metagross, maybe Gliscor? Everything else will be destroyed by switching in. The biggest problem this Staraptor set faces is faster opponents, so paralysis support and hazard support is all he needs to rip apart common teams.
Some really great nominations have already been made. I support Kyurem,DD Scrafty and FattyMence. Thought I'd throw a nom in too. Mienshao is a wonderful new pokemon who has a ton of things going for him, great Atk, Stab and Speed. It even has a wonderful set of abilities and yet it isn't used nearly enough. The set I'd like to nominate is SD-Baton Pass Mienshao
Mienshao @ Leftovers
Trait: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Substitue
- Swords Dance
- Baton Pass
- Hi Jump Kick
Because of Regenerator Mienshao can basically put up free subs whenever it forces something out. It can then utilize it's high speed to Baton Pass a +2 Atk to a teammate who can handle the current threat. It can even do some real damage when all fighting-resists are sufficiently weakened.
We can change the EV's in any way, such as making Mienshao itself more powerful. I believe this is a useful under-rated threat who gives awesome support while also being quite dangerous. Calm Mind can even be placed over Swords Dance if you want it to support a more Special team, although Mienshao will have a harder time using those boosts itself.
I definitely support the nominations of Metagross, Cloyster, and Kyurem. I think these are the exact sort of Pokemon that need a little love, and can still wreck shit with ease.
Breloom is amazing, there's nothing else to be said about it. It has little trouble grabbing a sub, and from underneath that sub it can shoot off ridiculously powerful Focus Punches (with SR, it can 2HKO Skarm on the switch) or it can sleep an opponent's threat. It's biggest counter is Gliscor, but with Excadrill out of the picture Gliscor is dropping in popularity fast, giving Breloom an opportunity to shine.
The EV's are up for change, I just run max attack and a 12 HP for Poison Heal, but if you want to give yourself even more options from behind the sub in exchange for coverage and run a SubSeed set, then it should be a bit more defensively oriented.
Would like to give my support for AgiliGross as well.
The once top-tier sweeper set has now fallen from its grace and it's never seen from the current OU. Yet, it is a set that can sweep with support, significant amount of support.
Nominating either AgiliGross or SSCloyster.
SSCloyster being a great mon without gaydrill and fagbro
AgiliGross being a once-powerful sweeper with potential to sweep even now...with LOTS of support
This set rocks. After a single Shell smash and a Jolly Nature, Carra can outspeed a lot of unboosted threats in the OU. From Rotom W( unscarf'd) to A dragonite, This guy can OHKO A LOT of opponents. Thanks to a little boost from Cell Battery and Sturdy, You can Bait electric types while Gaining a boost from Cell Battery. Carracosta also has a few tricks like Flail and Crunch If you want o have some Diversity. Stone edge is your rock STAB and can crit nicely. Earthquake can be used with no STAB, but is always welcome for any sweeper. Aqua Jet is your Priorety that will outspeed pretty much every other priority except ExtremeSpeed. Now for your main Water STAB, you have two choices: Waterfall and Aqua Tail. Waterfall is dependable with a chance of flinch, but less powerful than Aqua Tail. Aqua Tail is a little powerful, but has 90 Accuracy, which may slip up sometimes. Make sue you are completely trap free or you can take a hit, then just wreck stuff. The only true problem is that is completely blocked by Ferrothorn and needs a vital turn to set up.
This project could be a useful opportunity to get some little used but still broken things into the limelight and so i think these two would be great, both can easily wreck teams and can be considered "broken" also for their abilities
Wobbuffet (M) @ Leftovers Trait: Shadow Tag
Evs and nature can be tailored to fit your purposes
- Destiny Bond/charm/safeguard
- Counter
- Encore
- Mirror Coat
Safeguard can be used to prevent status while encoring something and provide free setup for another mon, charm can be used against something like ddnite where you are torn between countering and letting it get another dance in or encoring and taking a boosted outrage which will 2hko,
(charm lowers opponents attack by 2 stages)
How? With a non-Flight Gem boosted Acrobatics? And hoping that the Skarmory doesn't have Whirlwind or just uses you as fodder to set up Spikes?
EDIT: If you don't want people complaining about your suggestion:
a. Don't post it, if you think we're all going to instantly join the bandwagon on everything we see, please leave.
This thread is for posting ideas, your post did not do that, i dont mind people contesting my suggested pokes but it is annoying when they complain and their complaint makes it very clear they havent had any experience battling or using the sets im describing and are just whining uninformedly
b. Post it, but don't make silly claims like "it beats Skarmory, but I'm going to make it incredibly vague as to how and rely on hax when I do"
Because, you know, pokes being able to beat its counters with hax is the best damn argument I've heard about anything.
A good user of this set will weaken or status skarmoury beforehand as with all sweepers, a weakened skarmoury that misses a whirlwind versus this guy is going to have a very hard time, might i remind you garchomp was banned for being able to beat its counters via a miss
So I'll rephrase your last sentence: This thread is for suggesting pokes and giving valid reasons why, or people will moan about it.
