OU CCAT: Nidoking Edition

I'm not saying we should use the least common thing, if that were the case we should go with Choice Specs Unown (not that bad actually) or Banded Delibird. I'm fine with Darmanitan if everybody wants to use it. I was just saying that something like Bisharp is a lot more interresting to use and catches people off guard. After all, who prepares their OU team for powerful Dark type attacks?

Everything?

I'm surprised this statement was even made considering that Tyranitar was a solid top 10 for every month. Bisharp may sound interesting, until you realise that being weak to 2 of the most common types in OU make it a rather quirky choice, not to mention that you CAN outstall Sucker Punch PP, Taunt it, etc. As Xephyr said, the only good Bisharp is SD Bisharp, which makes it far far too predictable and easily set up upon.

Darmanitan > Bisharp, period.
 
The only good Bisharp set is Swords Dance. Correct, just like the only good Darmanitan set is Flare Blitz spam.

Is that a bad thing...?
Flash Fire pokes? They all have Superpower and Rock Slide for a reason.
Bulky Waters? See above.
Rain? Smart playing with your own weather.

Sucker Punch is just easily outstalled unless we rack up a ton of hazards and it has Taunt.
 
Azelf physical moves are : Zen headbutt, Return, Fire punch, Ice punch, Thunderpunch,Acrobatis,Payback,Iron tail and Explosion and he doesnt get sword dance ;P.

I've been using a sword dance bisharp and he doesnt cut it in OU. There is to much that outspeeds it , and pokes can use stuff like sub+attack(gengar) to avoid suckerpunch ( wich is common and its generally a good idea to sub first on bisharp to scout). I must say that i had decent succes with using bisharp as a psy/ghost/ killer. Pursuit and suckerpunch makes latias,latios,gengar,celebi and starmie cry.( used a special def/atk/hp spread that someone made up early b&w on smogon) But thats about all it does. Weavile does the same thing and better imo , and can also take on more pokes due to ice stab.

If you ask me we need to took into pokemon that used to be OU , and nowadays are not OU anymore because other pokes do their job better , but still have nice niches.This is because pokemon that were UU last gen and became UU this gen are there for a reason. They cant stand out against OU teams, and using gimmicky sets usually doesnt pay off. When om looking at smogon's OU list from gen3/4 to now and useage lists from when b&w was released, these pokes stand out : Metagross , azelf, dusknoir(dusclopsthisgen),flygon,hippodown,jolteon,kingdra,machamp,roserade,shymin,togekiss,weavile ,vaporeon,umbreon, darmanitan,snorlax,suicine,swampert,conkuldurr,whimsicott,eelektross.

Some pokemon of this list cant do a thing anymore this gen because everybody knows their sets back and forward , or they simply dont deal enough damage ( flygon , jolteon ,kingdra without rain, machamp still has a niche in dpunch but is outclassed by all the other strong fighters wich all have their niches,umbreon is quite useless in OU nowadays and hippodown is basically only used for sand.

Metagross is still quite the sweeper with proper teamsupport , and is able to take on terrakion 1on1 when they dont both dont have boosts( meteor mash).
Azelf is underestimated , has quick set-up, can run taunt to ruin walls.
Dusclops is a amazing wall that can wreck havoc but needs a good team to back it up.
Roserade is still a very good utility user with sleeppower/spikes/tspikes and carries a very handy grass stab to take out stuff like the common gastrodon.
Shymin is a decent pokemon,but doesnt get quite the coverage and good moves in for ou.
Weavile is still quite the good pokemon in ou , excelling at what it does ( killing ghosts and dragons.
Darmanitan is a powerhouse , but really NEEDs a rapid spinner for his flagship set with flare blitz.
Snorlax boasts great attack and can function as a special sponge ( thick fat,ghost immunity and having a lot of special attackers relay on focus miss to even 2ko or 3ko it is great)
Suicine is still a great defensive threat, tough a lot of BW OU pokemon can beat it 1on1.
With Swampert i get mixed feelings he seems decent but not quite good enough anymore ( every team packs a grass move anyways for gastrodon and quaggy or a other way to deal with those that can also deal with him)
Conkuldurrs useage is going down but he is still a very very good pokemon not to be underestimated.
Whimsicott is still a great team supporter but everybody will know how he works by now , making it very risky to use him.
 
Mamoswine

Pros:
  • Strong
  • Great dual stabs
  • Snowcloak trolls
  • Provides priority and stops Dragonite in its track
  • Unexpected
Cons
  • Speed is low
  • Requires hail to be more effective
  • Weak to priority and common attacking types
  • Lacks super effective coverage

Spr_5b_473_m.png

Mamoswine (M) @ Life Orb
Trait: Snow Cloak
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)/Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Icicle Spear/Icicle Crash
- Earthquake
- Ice Shard
- Stone Edge

Why Mamoswine? Well, Mamoswine is extremely underated this generation and performs the role of a strong tank. It also functions in all weather, taking no residual damage from hail and sand, while having weakened water and fire attacks in sun and rain, respectively. SubDD Dragonite is becoming more and more common, a nd Mamoswine takes advantage of this by using icicle spear to beat it. Earthquake is still one of the best moves in the game, and Mamoswine's Earthquake's is the strongest in OU after Landorus. Stone Edge provides you with additional coverage, but mostly you'll just be spamming your dual STABS. Ice shard picks off weakened opponents.

Also, it is fucking manly.
 
The only good Bisharp set is Swords Dance. Correct, just like the only good Darmanitan set is Flare Blitz spam.

The difference is that one set is awful and the other set is one of the best sets in OU right now. If supported correctly, it's really not stopped by anything. That's why a terrible battler like me can break top 100 lol.
 
Xephyr: Terrible? Break top 100?

I don't know how you can use both of those terms to describe yourself. I've only broken top 1000 twice, neither time did I hit 1200 rating.

So feel free to tear me apart, but here goes:

Zoroark @ Focus Sash
Timid nature (Modest is not recommended due to Mienshao trolling in the same speed tier, as well as letting you get the jump on Adamant Terrakion)
4 HP/252 SpA/252 Speed
Nasty Plot
Dark Pulse
Focus Blast
Flamethrower

This set works best with an Infernape guise, as its special sweeper set shares Fire/Fighting moves along with the same boosting move, along with a lack of other tells such as no ability that fires on entry, SR neutral, takes both spikes, similar speed tiers and similar frail defenses. Most teams can't handle a backup special sweeper after the primary special attacker is eliminated, so Zoroark finds itself clearing the way for a specially focused Ape to come in and throw down after sacrificing itself in the name of wallbreaking.
 
Tyranitar (F) @ Lum Berry
Trait: Sand Stream
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Dragon Dance
- Stone Edge
- Crunch
- Fire Punch

Underrated sweepers don't have to come in the form of underrated pokemon. Although I didn't play Gen 4, I have acquired the knowledge that Dragon Dance Tyranitar was a very viable threat in the Standard OU metagame. Nothing much has changed this generation, aside from the fact that nobody uses DDTar anymore, which, if anything, is a good thing. Having tested this set on the ladder, I can assure that nobody will ever expect you to start Dragon Dancing when given a free turn. This alone assures that you will always get at least one boost in, while one-turn immunity to status almost guarantees you another against bulky status users. Even with only one boost, many teams will fall to this set simply due to the fact that they aren't prepared for it. Imagine a combination of CBTar and ScarfTar that has the ability to switch moves. This is more or less what you get from DDTar with only one boost, which you are almost guaranteed to get if you play this set correctly.

might expand later, on phone atm.
 
I agree that DDTar is a menace, and I would hate to face one. It suffers from coverage problems, though. The set you posted can't kill Terrakion, for instance. It would have a hard time taking out 252 HP TTars, which may be packing Superpower. Without Aqua Tail, Gliscor and Hippowdon walls it, too. However, I agree that those 3 moves you suggested are the best combination. DDTar requires quite a bit of team support, but it is definitely underrated, moreso than Shell Smash Cloyster.
 
Providing that much-needed team support shouldn't be hard when/if we get to building around DDTar, which is what makes it eligible for the role of our main late-game sweeper.
 
TTar will never beat scarf terrakion unless it gets 3 DDs which means it should never beat scarf terrakion. Even with screens up it doesn't matter. Ttar problems with common mons like Scizor, Gliscor, ect but I might give it a try, esp that it can set up it's biggest check (exca)
 
There is one nomination that I think deserves a special mention of not only being underused this gen, but last gen too, Heracross:
heracross.png


Scarfcross:
Heracross@Choice Scarf
Trait: Guts
Adamant Nature
EV's: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
-Megahorn
-Close Combat
-Stone Edge
-Pursuit

The lack of Ghost and Flying types this generation, as well as the lack of Scarfers makes it very viable in OU. His two STAB's with Stone Edge lets it OHKO 4 pokemon within the top 10 and 2HKO the rest, bar Gliscor. Other notable Pokemon Heracross can beat include Reuniclus, Scrafty, Starmie, Celebi, and Hydreigon. With Guts, Heracross makes a great status absorber and bulsters his ability to sweep late game and revenge. It is a very underrated threat and has

The pokemon that do counter Heracross; Jellicent, Tentacruel, Gliscor, and Skarmory can all easily be beaten by teamates and the BoltBeam combo. Pokemon such as Starmie make great team mates.
 
Shouldn't a poll be up by now? I will also nominate Alakazam.
Alakazam@Life Orb
Trait:Magic Guard
Timid Nature
~ Psychic
~ Shadow Ball
~ Focus Blast
~ Substitute / Calm Mind / Grass Knot (Stolen from analysis)
 
Personally i'm ok to let wobb shine again in this 5gen meta.
His only function as a trapper is already good in this gen and can provides an awesome support for our sweepers.

On the other hand i'm curious to see a 5gen HailStall team like the -goodbye4gen-team made by Ladybug. So i'm in even with aboma. (Or even a Kevin Garret stall team will be interesting to see in 5gen [as you can see i think that a stall team with a weather summoner can be a good way to go and a different option to the famous rainstall])
 
561.gif

Since the poll isn't up yet, I'll be making a last minute entry of Sigilyph.




Pros:
  • Great typing benefits, with Ground immunity, 4x Fighting resist, and 2x Grass and Psychic resist.
  • Magic Guard is a great ability, providing Sandstorm immunity. When it is paired with Psycho Shift and Flame Orb, you can easily cripple powerful physical sweepers such as Tyranitar and Terrakion on the switch.
  • Good Special Attack and Decent Speed (103 and 97 respectively)
  • Great supporting movepool
  • Great synergy with good offensive powerhouses such as Tyranitar and Rotom W
  • Stored Power hits astomonmical levels when boosted
  • Resists Mach Punch and Vaccum Wave
  • Instant recovery
Cons
  • Weaknesses to Dark, Rock, Ice, and Electric, which are common and powerful types.
  • Poor unboosted bulk of 72/80/80
  • Weak offensively when unboosted
  • Stealth Rock weakness
  • Vulnerable to phazing
The moveset:

Sigilyph @ Flame Orb
Magic Guard
Timid Nature
252 HP/252 Spe/4 Def

- Psycho Shift
- Cosmic Power
- Roost
- Stored Power

This set is slightly gimmicky, but very very effective when played properly. The objective is to get 2 or 3 Cosmic Powers off the bat, burn any offensive switch-ins (such as the previously mentioned Terrakion and Tyranitar), and hit very hard with Stored Power.

Stored Power at +4 defences said:
20 * (20 * 4 * 2) = 180 * 1.5 = 270

This moveset is walled by dark types unfortunatly, so we'll need a powerful Fighting priority user such as Conkeldurr to help out. Thanks for reading ^_^
 
oh man. scrafty is so underrated.

scrafty@lum berry
moxie/jolly
4hp 252atk 252speed
-dragon dance
-ice punch/fire punch (since i cant see gliscors these days)
-drain punch
-crunch

also!

mienshao@life orb
regenerator/jolly
4hp 252atk 252speed
-swords dance/sub
-baton pass
-hi jump kick
-stone edge/fake out/hp ice

^this shit destroys. come a cross a wall u cant break? BATON PASS. but watever. skarmory is 1hkoed by +2 hi jump kick with rocks anyways.
 
I agree that DDTar is a menace, and I would hate to face one. It suffers from coverage problems, though. The set you posted can't kill Terrakion, for instance. It would have a hard time taking out 252 HP TTars, which may be packing Superpower. Without Aqua Tail, Gliscor and Hippowdon walls it, too. However, I agree that those 3 moves you suggested are the best combination. DDTar requires quite a bit of team support, but it is definitely underrated, moreso than Shell Smash Cloyster.

Not really, DDTar was kinda bad late GenIV. Any scarfer would outspeed, there are more priority pokes this Gen (mach punch being a common one) and even with +1 it can't deal with common walls like Hippo, Unaware Quaqsire, Swampert. Even, non-mach punch Conkeldur can just switch in.
 
I just want to shamelessly advertise my preference for building a team around CM Latias:
380.png

Leftovers
Timid
252 HP/252 Speed/4 Special Attack
Dragon Pulse
Calm Mind
Substitute
Recover



1. Sets up on common (weather-abusing) pokemon, including but not limited to: Ninetales, Politoed, Tentacruel, Jellicient, some forms of Ferrothorn, Rotom-w. These are common pokemon seen on many teams, meaning that Latios nearly always has a chance to set up.

2. Checks common threats such as: Tornadus (will not be ohkoed by specs hurricane), Gliscor, Gengar (shadow ball will not ohko), Venusaur, Trick Room Reuniclus, Celebi, Espeon, Heatran, Infernape, Starmie, Terrakion, Virizion.

3. Counters and Checks are easily broken down. The Blobs are wrecked by Toxic Spikes, as is Tyranitar. Scizor is easily lured and worn down, and Latias is not Ohko'd by CB bullet punch (though it can't do much back). In addition substitute allows Latias to avoid being pursuited. Other Steel types can be worn down through time tested strategies like having another strong dragon on the team that forces them to tank outrages. In should be noted that Latias speed ties with Gengar and Latios, and it won't be koed by Shadow Ball. After a Calm Mind, Latios' Dragon Pulse will not KO it (assuming Life Orb, though I'm pretty sure Specs won't either).

tl;dr Latias sets up on a plethora of pokemon made common by Weather Wars, and also provides checks to many special attackers. Its a classic 'check-mate' pokemon that is also capable of providing a bulky backbone to a balanced team.
 
Zurich asked me to take over OU CCAT while he's busy so I will get the polls up, and then you guys could vote.
EDIT: I'm not a mod, so I can't edit this thread to add a poll, but I'll list all the choices on this post.
 
Zurich asked me to take over OU CCAT while he's busy so I will get the polls up, and then you guys could vote.
Aw, is this a joke?

I called dibs on an OU CCAT like two and a half or three weeks ago or something, well before this thread went up. Nix could vouch for that.
And then Zurich stole the thread, ripped it out of my clutches. And I finally came to grips with having this thread taken from me.
And now Pocket's taking it over? Oy, too much to bear...
 
Here are the candidates. I may edit this post for more information, but I'm posting this right now so you guys can have a look, browse these mons, and post your nomination!

PLZ NOTE
Jimera0 - I think we might have to allow people multiple nominations, otherwise we're going to end up with too few making the same nominations seeing as there are just so many choices. 2 or 3 would be a good amount, in my opinion, so that people can put not only their first choice but their second and maybe third as well.

Okay, so pick your top 3 - Your 1st choice will receive +2 pts, and your 2nd & 3rd will receive +1 point. Sounds good?

For those who nominated already, edit your post with two other nominations.

OU CCAT ballot
 
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